Episode 001_Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker

The speakers discuss their experiences playing The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker on GameCube. They talk about the game's release and how it differs from other Zelda games. They discuss the game's combat mechanics, puzzles, and storyline. They also mention the camera controls and compare the game to other Zelda titles. Overall, they have mixed opinions about the game but appreciate some of its features. All right, welcome back to the three two one backlog podcast I'm definitely not buying a three-foot HDMI cable on it at the moment Using an expired credit card I Talking about Legend of Zelda the Wind Waker on GameCube Nintendo GameCube I Kind of so initially I kind of thought this was a launch title I guess in Japan it came out like a little over a year after the GameCube came out and they kind of rushed it out For holiday season to try and get the sales out there. So it came out in America 2003 I didn't know that I I thought like Nintendo consoles came with like they launched with a Zelda game I thought that's just the way we did it Yeah, I feel like I mean, I guess it's such a big staple Either got a pick Mario or Zelda or you know, you probably don't want to do both Right, that would just be too good. No Nintendo Pretty consistently Legend of Zelda has been fully off of my radar Yes, have you ever played any other any other Zelda games? I played a whopping maybe 12 minutes of the one on the switch Okay, so this was your like If you played this when it came out it would have been the only Zelda game you ever played pretty much That's why I've What is what is the one that just came out on switch a couple years ago? I'm Completely wild breath of the wild. Yeah that but I have now played when the Wind Waker more than I played legend I'm blanking so hard Wild I have now played that more than breath of the wild and it was yeah Maybe an hour or two in to the Wind Waker Before the controls did me in I feel it wait of wait. Oh of Wind Waker of Wind Waker. Okay Yeah, I played a little bit of this breath of the wild podcast. Welcome back guys I played a little bit of breath of the wild. I grew up with I think Adventure of link which is Zelda 2 on Super Nintendo on Nintendo original the gold cartridge I had that when I was a kid. It was the only only Zelda game I played for a really long time and I think everybody hates that game Right because it's like a 2d platformer mixed in like it's like an open-world Open map kind of game like top-down the way like, you know old RPGs are but then when you go into a town Or you go into a dungeon, it would be 2d side-scrolling platformer So I think people didn't really like that very much. I did Right. I came to shovel night if you ever Wrapped your hands around that guy that I've also have not played but I've heard about it. Basically. Yeah, it's very similar to that It's a side-scrolling game. Yeah, so you never played any other Zelda games before? Okay. No, I have not Okay, so you've played them all then. I That that's kind of what I'm hearing is that a lot of them are and all of them are kind of like the same Loosely the same story over and over again Yeah, I feel like somebody's gonna hate me for saying this and probably I'm probably gonna get it wrong My understanding is like all these mainline Zelda games are canon. They're in just in different timelines The bad guy Ganon is like locked away Forever for all eternity and he can escape or something like that and get out and he gets out and has like different Iterations of himself in the timeline that he gets out in and then like I guess Some happens to be a blonde-haired guy that becomes the hero all the time something like that Yeah, and when I was playing through the Wind Waker, I Confused I didn't know if you were playing as link or not that I was noticing early on that Whenever somebody addressed your character, it was just like brother or hey you or like nobody Nobody ever like initially addressed you as link like addressed you as like are you ever can Canonically called link. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's Right, everybody knows this link. Yeah but I I mean even in in Breath of the Wild which I'll mention over and over again because the only other one I've played if you're gonna play a Zelda Game, you have to compare them to every other Zelda game Even in that one. I don't know if anyone ever mentions your name, but everybody knows that's who you are. I just Yeah, they know you're the hero. That's why right, right, right. So you've you've played that you've played more Zelda games, how would this one compare to the other ones you played? I think Probably because I'm old. I think I prefer like the 2d 3 like 2d 3d whatever like top-down Style games it just feels to me like it's more of like the though I guess the way that I interpreted the creator to like want that game I guess you know like it they're very true to the original like the the original I ended up getting like the first Zelda game When I was a kid, I ended up getting it like I think I bought it off of one of our neighbors or something But I just feel like those types of games in general like they just feel more like like an adventure to me I guess I don't know why I guess seeing I don't know The world don't feel as empty in general like there's you know There's like this real sense of expanding adventure Whereas the way Zelda games like especially Wind Waker man, it felt kind of empty the boat being in a boat a lot didn't bother Yeah, right right when you get into the boat, it's like okay. What the hell do I do now? Yeah, it's a very big game But like you know what like you can tell it's an expansive game But at the same time like is it expansive for the sake of it, and I guess there's some kind of something with the story Where it's the whole game is supposed to be flooded, so it's like another world, but like water happened Yeah, there was a couple of storylines. I was trying to Really pay attention to playing it for the first time They were playing pretty heavily into like oh and by the way spoilers because we might talk about some of the adventures on this But they had like a God's aspect like the gods were doing this so there was problems with the gods and oh, yeah one of the first ones you get to there's Like an angry wind God or something yeah, and it's it's affecting the world so there could be something Underlying with some of that yeah, you got is like, but but stuck on a toilet basically There it is you heard it here first do there's so much, okay, all right, let's get into it a little bit Okay, so kind of starting from the beginning Okay, what did you you played you played the Gamecube version right yes, okay? And so did I I didn't want to get that I didn't do the Wii U one. I have a Wii U, but I just Just didn't really I don't know. I guess I wanted to see how it played originally I like the Gamecube controller, so I wanted to experience that so you start out You're clearly gonna be the hero of the story. You're like. It's a classic sleepy hero, right? Exactly over sleeping your own adventure of course and When I so when I first started playing it I kind of thought that the like your little sister was was supposed to be Zelda You know you're not survive, but that's also that would be kind of strange because I'm pretty sure link is like supposed. Maybe romantically Something I don't think that a different timeline yeah pretty pretty quickly It's like hey, we're in my favorite spot, and then it's like this arrow spot, so like okay. Maybe it's not Maybe it's not Zelda or not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then you go or you run around You're just running around basically They give you like a solid 30 minutes of running around your home island to get nauseated by the camera Oh Lord that camera you encounter a kid with a runny nose. Yeah, do you remember that kid? I knew was it the one like right off the bridge Yeah, he's like right there, and he just yeah you down with a snotty nose. That's weird, man. Yeah, I I think I was still learning the controls, and I fell off of those bridges so many times you said it on it I was going like right in the face trying to like deal with that inverted left and right which was the weirdest Control choice yeah, I feel like if you it's bold to I don't understand that I don't know I mean, I guess we could have looked up Why they would like maybe Miyamoto gave like a specific reason for that I don't know but to me that was it was on unacceptable It's just it's different from every single game. I've ever even played I know some games have an inverted vertically But a horizontal if if anybody's played this game a long time ago They probably forgot how atrocious that is like they don't they don't know yeah And when with the net with the newer games you can most games nowadays you can mess with the bindings a little bit Yeah to try and fix that or they'll say hey, do you want to invert and you can say no? That's dumb certain games. It calls for like flying simulators, but that's about it, but yeah, it's going back and playing this this 20-year-old game we're recording this in 2023 20-year-old game is making me really appreciate some of the Advances we've made for gaming yeah for sure for sure Yeah, I don't know. I wonder if they updated that in the Wii U version the camera that that'd be an interesting thing to compare It would definitely make it a little bit better, but I don't I don't know no Maybe it's in the settings or something, but I didn't have the Wii U version to look so right I don't know. I mean, I guess that's a like I said back then maybe the idea of cameras and stuff or they were still trying to figure it out because I know the n64 before that they didn't really have like a camera like a Secondary joy joystick or joypad they kind of just had like the little arrow directional things for the camera, but I'm right right more More directional tab than actual joystick. Yeah, so the camera sucks Did you like that you said okay, so you then you go through the island And you they teach you how to fight because you have to go and get save the girl that got dropped by a bird Yeah, I remember you had mentioned like the combat a little bit. I was I was surprised now We talked about this a little bit in our in our intro episode, but my retro gaming experience was very lacking So I never had a gamecube before so I I made big jumps So I was kind of surprised that a game from from 2003 and in the games you've had So many options it wasn't just you know spam this button to swing your sword. It was you can dodge you can You can hold different key bindings to attack in different ways Which was very surprising. It's kind of funny because I wish I could piggyback on that and say like yeah But you did just swing the sword, right? But true but but there were I like I wish I could say that but I know There were some enemies where you actually did have to do things differently and like I remember There's like a bridge you could cut the bridge by doing the spin attack later on But that that kind of shows in the combat like you do actually utilize all the different things when you do the spin attack I think you attack and hold it down after you swipe or after you know after you write and there was there were a couple There were a couple puzzles that needed that Yeah, one of the earlier one of the earlier puzzles you go through one of the dungeons there's this Like a like a platform or a little cage structure that's held up by these three Ropes and you have to go in there and time it Yes, right using that special tech to cut all three or you fall off incorrectly and then have to start the whole dungeon over again Yeah, and it was kind of cool. I'll say I'm sorry I I do really like how they made you use that because if you didn't use it there You might not remember and you'd probably go on longer and longer without using that But that that attack does come in handy when you have enemies around you But again, like if they didn't reinforce it They reinforce it without having somebody like pulling at your ear telling you don't forget the spin attack Oh for sure, then you go into the forest and you get that the girl that's definitely not Zelda Yeah, no, that was that was the second time after the sister where I'm like, okay Maybe this is Zelda cuz every girl is every every girl's gotta be Zelda, right? Yeah I mean now as old as a pirate and you know, but but no it was this little little young and by the name of Tetra I think it was yeah, which is fun. I mean it you got it like, okay So Tetra is like a four but like what it what is it's something right like a like a shape Yeah, it's like a shit. It's a fish actually. No, it's uh, it is a shape I think but it means four It's like a four-sided triangle like the Triforce. There's clearly some connection there. Did you know that I did not know that? Yeah, I didn't really so like the name when I would I I was it's obviously Zelda, right? And I was like trying to I couldn't remember her name and when I looked it up I saw when I actually saw it was Tetra after I played some and I was like Oh that's got something to do with the Triforce or a triangle or something. So yeah, it's a fish Yep, that's why she's in the water. That's it. And see this this kind of goes into My lack of knowledge around all Zelda things. I know the Triforce is a thing Yeah, my wife has been a big fan of Zelda. So I've seen the symbol I know what Majora's Mask is what's different game. I know about the ocarina She's got one of those over here somewhere a pass knowing what the symbol looks like. I don't know what it is I don't know what it's for So it was definitely weird to come into this seeing it without the prior prior knowledge of all the other games It was just like this weird thing, you know, I know all about it I'm just not going to tell you because I definitely know what the Triforce is, but I don't I don't want to discuss it I just got everyone's gonna have to trust me that I know exactly I know it's so much more than three golden triangles arranged into one bigger triangle Like I know for sure that it's got to be something more than that But how many triangles will there be actually? Because it's one of those puzzles It's one of those puzzles where like how many I keep seeing that on tech talk somebody like go live and say how many triangles? Are here and come on guys Yeah, I don't have any idea what to try what it actually is. I think maybe The master sword is affiliated with it Like maybe it's part of the pyramid scheme in order to acquire if you get enough people working under you They give you a master sword If this is going to be the best Episode one of a podcast where the subject matter the listeners going into it are going to know much more because everybody knows. Oh, yeah Not knowing but hey, we'll have to start somewhere. Okay, 34 years old This guy's playing he's doubled his time playing any Zelda games. Yep. Oh Okay, so it serves as the balance that weighs the three forces power wisdom and courage that's what the wiki says Okay, and that's clearly the best sorts of truth And it grants it grants mortals wishes. Okay. I don't want it. We're this isn't it Please reference the gaming historian if you have any further questions Okay, so yeah you get this girl she sends you to go your sister got kidnapped because she looks just like Zelda Yep, every every blonde looks the same and then you go in and it's Metal Gear Solid To the T. Right that that initial Yeah, initial dungeon that that that infuriated me. I I think I had to run through that took me probably an hour to get through It was not I died so many times Yeah, it was tough because you could you would get caught and then thrown in the prison. All right, right. Yep So, I don't know what happened But I I kept getting caught and it would put you like through this prison and you find your way out and stuff And then I just took a break from it. I think I like when I you know, I had something to do I came back to it again the next time I played and It was so much easier like because you kind of know what's going on But I snuck past this stuff and I didn't ever get thrown in the I don't think I ever got thrown in the prison It's just a lot easier if you don't go to if you don't go to jail just like real life Yeah, I I didn't one sitting and yeah, it was okay, thank you, it's painful Yeah, not as painful as the boat obstacles, right? No that that that dungeon I Because what what I end up doing the end a couple times kind of goes into like not fully understanding the controls There for those that haven't played the level there's there's these patrols in certain areas. There's like these like bipedal Pig looking dudes that are like guards. They have a big glaive and a Lantern that are like patrolling these areas and you have to like hide in these these barrels and walk through them But I was getting tripped up because if you moved Too close or when they turned around if you were still moving a little bit they immediately saw you so it's kind of learning like how What limitations the game controls had yeah, and then also not realizing that in previous sections you would aggro little easily killable like rats or bats or something and Not knowing that they're still coming to get you getting pretty far into that area where you're stealthing doing well, and then the rat comes and breaks your barrel and Yeah, boom there. You are you're back in jail. I only got ratted out one time I think it was weird because it was only like one section where I even saw a rat I don't know if something triggered them or what like I only got it out somebody I think those proximity aggro to be honest with you. I was really worried You know how they walk around the pig dudes, and they like sniff Yep, I thought for sure that was like if they sniffed when they were close to you They were gonna sniff me out same, and I don't think I don't think that was a mechanic They were really cool-looking though. I know I've played a couple other Zelda games and There's like the pig enemies and stuff. I know that's like a it's a like a common theme but I really like this iteration of them and how they walked around and like they they had like a more Like a cool look to them instead of it. Just being like a fat boar They actually had kind of a weird like body type and and stuff. I don't know they reminded me loosely Another game breath of the wild Well, no if they were in breath of wild I didn't get that far, but no World of Warcraft the midst of Pandaria. There was a sanctuary area Okay, and in that area. It was very like Asian themed and there were these like stone What they were called, but anyway, they had a very a very similar look to those To me they had a very similar look and style to that but definitely the the Zelda ones have a more pig appearance Yeah, I know it just it was there again very loosely. It's just like a brief Reminded me of them a little bit. I'm looking it up. It's called a Moblin. That's what it's called Which is that is that in Zelda or Wow that's in Zelda I have no I don't remember I played myths of Pandaria, but I never left the arena Moblin, I heard that's one thing I remember Zelda has really strange names for all the enemies like Moblin, and there's like Doesn't matter, but yeah, I thought it was a cool-looking enemy I know it's you're gonna see it a lot playing through the game, but I thought it was neat It was a lot easier once you got your sword back And you can actually fight which which was the whole reason you're there is that you know or got knocked away So you didn't get your you didn't have your weapon. Yeah, dude. That was just as As a lot of this game had that was a plot point Yeah, I then that was one of those one of the notes I really didn't like that day, and I get why they do it So it's it's content to play through and all that, but it's like It when you it was a it was a portion of the game That was making you do a thing just for the sake of making you do it. There wasn't a lot of that Yeah, it's like there was no consequence to what you're doing. It's just you're Consequence to what you're doing. It's just you're you're not and again that kind of speaks to like those older games There was limit sizes on the cartridges, and they can only do so much I get that but there was the piece of the game that felt like you just you were stuck There's nothing you could do like oh you know in newer games if you Lose the thing there might be multiple paths to get it because you know that's an adventure because of that I felt I felt a sense of frustration I wonder if I feel like it won't but I wonder if the stealth mechanic of that ever comes back because it didn't in the Following dungeon you know yes, I like when they like when games introduce a mechanic, and then you use it again I'm not a big fan of when it's like a one-off mechanic like that like hiding in a cardboard box and metal gear solid It's the same, but at least in metal gear solid you can use it through the whole game You know it's also kind of a strange decision that to give you a sword teach you how to use it you have this and Then you never actually do really use it And then they take the sword away from you for the next Depending on how bad you are at the game the next hour to yes kind of strange choice But I guess maybe there's something cute about that like maybe you're not as much of a hero as you think you are Kind of thing like you and then tetra gives you a cell phone very nice of her, okay? So yeah, you get the you get the you go you try you could try to retrieve your sister and then you just a bird throws you out instead of killing you or Just eviscerating you like we all know birds. Do it just throws you in the middle of the ocean and You have Nothing going for you anymore Yeah, and that that again kind of speaks in in my eyes my opinion that it was Nothing you did really mattered There was no try to fight like like let you fight the bird and maybe if you lose it throws you out into the ocean It was just oh sorry the person you were here to find can't get them you're being chucked out of the ocean it Now that it reminded me of the classic Mario going through the dungeon fighting Bowser Princess should be there. Nope. It's toad to tell you they're somewhere. Sorry your princesses in another yeah, it's just the constant like you'd you'd you worked your butt off to get this whole level and Then the payoff is saying sorry. They were never here to begin with and or you know What if what if I told you that there that you fight that bird later on you get to go back? Oh like the bird later on I didn't get that far right, but sorry everybody But yeah, that's kind of cool that you have like you get introduced to it Right a little bit and like you're probably very ill-equipped like you're I know you're gonna need that ground Grappling hook because that's the ideal choice a weapon for a bird Of course is a grappling hook in my experience, but that's kind of cool I do like that like there's some you know You get introduced to a boss early on and you know You're not capable of beating it because it just picked you up and eviscerate. I mean threw you into the ocean So that's that's kind of cool. And then you you're gonna come back I did see that through some a little bit of brief research, but I don't did you did you like that area like at all? How did you feel about just the general area that like the stealth mechanics and stuff like once I got over and out of town? Well, yeah for sure everybody add this to your backlog right away play with me. No Once once you get past like the the learning curve of those older controls I think it became more enjoyable. Is it a perfect game in my opinion? No, but it's not terrible, but that's also coming from Somebody who's now, you know, we're in the days of ps5s and And all this stuff. It's very hard to go back to some of these games. Ain't no God of War right, right so there's definitely an asterisk there of like What I would have definitely come at this game differently if I was playing it back in the early 2000s Yeah, man It's I feel like if we could have played it back then maybe it would have just kind of been mind-blowing And I feel like we had the time to play it back Like just really that I just feel fast and amazing but ever every game now is already so darn big, you know, but yeah it was also a reminder of Again back to like cartridge size and stuff like there there We didn't feel like real voice acting in any of these games for a while So you get that you get the weird grunts and awkward mouth sounds just for the sake of having a sound in there Definitely going back it kind of reminded me of all those little silly things that you didn't really think about when you were, you know a little teenager So yeah, okay I'll piggyback on that a little bit that that what you just mentioned is like still very prevalent in like it never left Nintendo man It's like, you know, like Mario's like yelling wahoo as he jumped. Yeah, I'm not gonna I don't want to get copyright By doing that way too good But it's that's very much like a staple of and I never liked that very much I get it like you don't want your character To be silent, but it's it's odd to me as far as dialogue goes I feel like this game hit really really hit the sweet spot on dialogue If you think about older games where it was like there really wasn't a story Because it's just like there's so little dialogue that the adventures all like it There's nothing right to tell it to tell the story and then you get a newer game where it's like you wake up You know six hours later and you're you're you fell asleep on a dialogue screen Yeah This game really nailed it with the sweet spot and the dialogue was good Like there was even some like little quips and kind of jokes and stuff like that Like it was I feel like they this is top tier amount of dialogue and writing really good for me I don't yeah on that. I did I did notice it and again I Because I didn't play those games back then. I guess I don't have a good frame of reference Outside of what we currently have. Yeah. Well, I mean that's kind of what I was thinking of. Yeah Yeah games in general. I didn't know and and my my initial comment was more on Voices voice acting lack thereof, but there was you are right there was dialogue in text form Yeah, there definitely is substance there. It wasn't just Lacking so there definitely is There definitely is dialogue there. I I read through some of it. I mean there are gonna be I won't lie There are some that I kind of skipped over right, you know as you do not really paying attention to it Or if you're trying to get through the game or whatever it is, but they're there on the parts I did read through it was it was you know, it fit the scene it was in Well, I think that's a common thing people complain about in games now I feel like especially in the Nintendo spectrum is the dialogue is very heavy in them And it takes you're playing a game, you know, I'm not I don't even know how to read. I'll admit it. So Just having a book in front of me is really tough to focus on and like and to enjoy right, you know We're playing a game because I want to cut up pigs with a sword You know one one game to tangent for a moment on dialogue one game Recent game that really the dialogue put me off was the Pokemon Arceus. It's just yeah Pokemon games Yeah, the I feel like they've gotten worse as they've gotten they've gone over but Arceus I Remember there was a good like 30 minutes where I only got like two breaks of like a minute or two in between Where's part of another scene? Yeah, so that that was the you know, one of the one of the few games that really Frustrated me with dialogue, but but Wind Waker didn't have that So it was there was text to read through but it wasn't like slamming it down your throat. I agree fully with that I can't I have a hard time getting their new games because the dialogue so okay so then you the direct the the boat says hey, I just happen to I'm a I'm a late model. I need to be retrofitted with a sail We're gonna take you to this little island and you're gonna go buy a sail. How did that go for that? Oh, man I I I kid you not I set the controller down and just like had to take a minute It was it was such a weird like, okay. Hey, we're going to save our sister That was just taken by a massive bird we tried we failed got thrown God knows where and then oh, hey Here's this this bright red Dragon-headed talking boat that just happened to find me and it happened to be those dragons. Yeah, it's just like oh, I'm this big I'm this ancient Magical boat that can help you in all your troubles I just have just so happen to know all the problems you're having and I can help them but a Crucial part of my my what my being I don't have a sale. Can you go get me one? Yeah, it was just it was a really in my it was a real weak introduction to a very plot device yeah, it was like it's this very important piece of The game is how you get all over this this this world is this boat? So you're gonna be using for a while and the introduction to it was just like oh, hey, by the way I'm a I'm a boat. I can help you. It is it didn't land for me. Yeah, I agree It felt like a lot of maybe the game won't have that later on But it did kind of feel like a lot of that you go and you get this sale From and that's another thing you buy the sale and the guy that you buy it from doesn't don't even tell you what you're buying Yeah, I get really weirded out about that because he's like I'll sell you that object that you want or something Yeah, I went through and I I I could not figure out who I was supposed to buy it from I think yeah, I I I didn't look up many things for this This was one of the first things I had to look up because I was genuinely confused I'm right. I was supposed to do to the point where I think I tried buying something else I won and I couldn't afford it and the one thing I happened to maybe afford that like oh, no You you it was some reason I couldn't buy it that I can't remember the specifics But it was like the game telling me that like oh, no, you can't use your money on that You have to go buy this other thing, but it wouldn't it wouldn't direct me to where I'm supposed to go Strange choice in a game to the first thing you have to buy is a required item that takes up all the money You have right weird. I don't know strange. Yes Did you meet the old man with the pots to get your money on the island? I remember going into a room that had pots and I started breaking them and somebody yelled like no way. Whoa, buddy Yeah, so then I left okay But you never you didn't actually go you didn't go talk to them. No I didn't know you can get to him. Dude. This guy is a real this guy's a real jerk. Okay, you go in there He says like hey, okay, you break pots. It's Zelda. That's what you do, right? That's the whole point of the game is breaking pots you go to this old guy and You actually go you can enter the upstairs of his house and you talk to him and he's like, oh Like like poor me. My daughter has been abducted by a giant bird because she looks like Zelda Probably and he's like, you know, like can you please help me? Can you rescue her for me? Sure. I'm the hero of the game I break pots. That's what I'm gonna do. Yeah, I'll help you buddy. So you agree to help him and he's like This guy's a jerk dude, he says go break some pots downstairs and get some money and I'll put some some Rupees in the pots for you So you can have money to go buy your stupid sale for your dragon boat You go down there and you what do you do you like you'd break the pots, right? Yeah, you say you get your money and you're like, yeah, I got enough money to buy the sale and he's like, whoa You broke a lot of pots. I'm gonna charge you for each one that you broke you broke ten or whatever So then he takes money away from you Yeah, and like this is right after you agree if I meet this guy's daughter I'm gonna let her I'm leaving her on that island. She can rock that bloodlines done Because she's gonna turn out just like him. Oh my god, probably so I don't know I thought that was ridiculous, but it's kind of funny But it's also like like I again I bet you that's not gonna come up again Like you're probably not gonna get in trouble for breaking another pot for the rest of the game ever I mean, maybe it was their attempt at like a fourth wall break of like Zelda's always about breaking pots, you know Maybe they were trying to make light of it and it just didn't maybe it fell flat. I Don't know I just I didn't yeah, that guy's a real jerk real jerk Okay, so you get this you buy that that object that we can't name Then you get this thing and then you go sailing right? Yeah, did you do you have any issues by the Island the sailing mechanics are fine, you know, it's just it's basically water But what confused me is that I think it gives you a I think it gives you a a wind direction Marker and I okay. I thought that was the quest marker where I'm supposed to go So I just started sailing into the into nothing. Yeah, you know just having a good old time. You see anything I saw a couple like, you know floating crates where you can like, you know get oh, yeah, I remember seeing that Yeah, I found a little island that I hopped off on. I think I was Probably a crate or something on it and then another boat went by with like a bunch of people like paddling so I I jumped off and then started talking to them and it just happened to be a Set of NPCs that give you a map Yeah I don't know if I got lucky and just happened to find the ones that do that or if it just knows you don't have A map and then keeps giving you opportunities to get the map. So it was a little weird I'm not even sure if I remember that. I don't know if I got a map or not I remember finding a box and getting it was definitely a How I interpret it was I just happened to randomly foot come across this boat Like it was like a leader, dude, and maybe like six or seven dudes that were like rowing or something Oh, I didn't feel like oh Hey if you're new to the seas you should take this map and then like boom and then you get the map and then he turns Around and puts hands in the sky like you got a map and they do this that weird little animation of you getting Yeah Every dude. Yeah, I know. That's a Zelda thing. Yeah, I Maybe if I was 12 and I was playing it I would be a little fun But if you are listening to this podcast and that is your ringtone for a text message or something You are gonna hate me Yeah, so okay so was I guess I did have a map it didn't show anything But it showed like the location that I needed to give us like squares. Yes, so I went there. Yeah, I Hated I didn't like the bird people's faces Yeah there. I think I sent you a picture while I was playing through He reminded me of like a bird Hank Hill. Yeah For anybody that wants to see a bird Hank Hill go he was the one he was a postal guy But I think you'd like that do a job for it's a little mini game where you have to sort mail didn't do it I I did the first two rounds and then couldn't do the last one man. That's the literally their job, dude Yes, well, I don't try I'm a hero. I think it was supposed to give you a little side mini quest Where if you can do it if you can do it fast enough, he then says, oh, hey, by the way, you're you're good enough Sort my mail. Can you go deliver this other thing? And you basically gives you like a parcel and there's a mailbox outside on the island and you just go put it in the mailbox I think that's it He has wings this guy can fly. He's honestly more equipped for this like quest than you are. Yeah in general Yeah, imagine how easy the first dungeon would have been if you could fly that guy is the laziest There was there's something else because it's like a penguin he's a bird but he can't he's not he's choosing not to fly Oh real quick back to Back to our friend friendly friendly neighborhood boat Yeah, sorry. So this this game know that it's related the Bird Island So when you get on the boat for the first time and then you when you finally get in the direction Over you're supposed to go to the next island. We'll call it a bird island. It was like Bruce Sometimes bird that was definitely a bird island for sure The game says oh, by the way, when you land on this island You're probably it was the game's way of saying you're gonna need this item, but you get the item the Wind Waker Which yeah, which which two things real quick before I knew that we were going to do this game I thought it was the Wind Walker fun fun thing I also didn't know that the Wind Waker was an item and the Wind Waker is an item and For those that don't know it's the most obvious item you could possibly think of it's a What would you call it? It's um, it's the thing this little stick to wreck music. Yeah Composers stick What is that? What is that called? I actually need to find out. It's called a baton. Is it a baton? so it's it's like a conductor a composers a conductor's So it's also known as a cudgel mace nightstick rod Crunchy and and a wand and I just I was so good I didn't know that there was gonna be a musical element to this game. I didn't know that was an item. It was very Surprising because I didn't know. Yeah, this wasn't Legend of Zelda cudgel of wind ocarina of time Yeah, I don't I I guess that was like I don't know if they were like really piggybacking hard off the ocarina thing from the last gen Maybe that was they loved it. I don't know. Maybe that's just a Zelda thing, too I don't know So it just so happens that the random boat that you befriend is like hey Oh, by the way, I have this extremely powerful We'll say magical baby. I don't yeah that oh, you know if you need it, you know Maybe you could use it and sure enough that that'll never come up. Yeah, exactly sure enough you end up needing it The whole the whole mechanic is it it helps you like tune in to this like godly magical force That the gods help you in certain ways So you have to invoke I think the god of the wind is the first one, right? so yeah so that was the other thing I had to look up because I was I was fully stumped on what the hell to do because I Did all my I did all my mail sorting and I talked to people that didn't want to be talked to and I was like Okay, what do I do now? I was that was that? Yeah, and then again, you don't really use that for a long time Yeah, did you use it? Did you actually so? Okay, you get all these man you do the mail quest You you do all that Then you have to throw this girl up onto a ledge, right? Now, did you did you use did you use did you know that you use the stick to do that? I think the cudgel you had to the the cudgel To progress into that level you had to use you had to go like it was on it was on off the beach there was a little stone and you had to like basically activate its powers to progress the Story. Yeah, like I I hit up I hit a point where I could not continue I don't remember. Yeah, so I was sitting sitting there playing it. I was like, okay, I'm stuck I'm running around the circles. I got my phone out looked it up and it's like oh, yeah You have to go activate the wind God's power so you can like I forget what it was exactly but it basically it did a thing to where I could go and Throw her off the thing or whatever. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I remember that but I actually didn't use it there I saw that you needed to Spoiler I had to use a guide actually because I was having such a hard time throwing her But apparently you can just throw her on the ledge without you using the Inductor's baton. Yeah. Okay. Yeah So after after you initially use it off the beach with that stone with a little you know up like yeah Let's down right after that. I never used it So when I threw her I realized I was too close. So I kept throwing her and she Yeah, I had to go back for and then I never used that after that Honestly this goes right back to what I said earlier Those bird people are way more equipped for this quest than uh, then they'll link ever could be Of course, I beat that girl senseless throwing her into it. I did. I'm not kidding, man I know I'm not good at video games and I but Dude, that girl is to even still be alive and talking after what she went through just the like the amount of times I just bludgeoned her into a wall and accident. Yeah, it The the story reason was like, oh, we're We're too busy to deal with whatever we're too busy to deal with the world. And yeah, it was We're busy. We're way too busy. Also, can you do my job for me? Sort the mail and deliver it? I'm too busy You can't do it. I Don't know. I'm not impressed with I think bird people would be way better in real over short than they were ice game I believe Because I was getting I think I played about three and a half hours of this and I'm still Only a two bird island. Yeah, and I got roost dragons roost dragons roost. Yeah, I got almost to the top I believe I believe I dealt with The the angry dragon up at the top. I dealt with him and I was on my mom. I trekked back You saw him up there. Yeah. Yeah, I got I got away to him. I got all the way I Took care of it. He was happy and then we were basically having to trek back down the mountain and he was happy He you know, he like like he What this the story you you get up there you do a thing Yeah, whatever resolves itself for that scene and then you fight the boss I believe I fought the boss and then I come the boss the giant centipede. Yeah Oh Lord, I Have then maybe maybe not I believe I got pretty high up and then it was basically on the track back down the mountain But I was having to go back. I was having to go like into the dungeon more you get a grappling hook Yeah, I got the grappling hook. Okay. Yeah. Yeah Yeah So it though the way to spit it the way the story Unfolds you get the grappling hook you meet the dragon you see that he's under a large amount of distress He's trying to have a bowel movement can't get it out You have to go down into the toilet and help them Use the grappling hook and you go through like a very big like lava filled dungeon with this grappling hook and Yes. Yes, that's what it was. So the other things coming out like Like like Ragnaros like out of the out of the lava and all that right from from from World of Warcraft There's a giant. Yeah, there's a giant centipede. Yeah, he's coming up. Yes, and I think that's where I died Cuz I Realized that you had to like poke the the dragon's butt or whatever with the grappling hook and I kept getting hit Before I could do it. Yeah, and I hit my you know, like three and a half four hour mark and I'm like, alright guys I think that's it Yeah, I actually okay. So yeah the whole dungeon man. It was cool. It was fine It was very standard Zelda affair the camera stuff Especially with the boss was very difficult to deal with especially with 30 years of playing games and having the camera horizontal. Yep. I Looked up. Did you use it? You looked things up. Did you use a guide for any of this? the only two things I looked up were the sale and the How to use the Wind Waker very financially wise of you not to just buy things that the guy wouldn't tell you what you're getting Okay, so I yeah, so I looked up a little bit of a guide Especially there was a part where you had to throw a bomb to make a platform fall Do you recall that you like throw a bomb in an urn on a wall and it knocks the platform down? Yes, so I watched I had to watch a guide because I just couldn't get I couldn't I don't know It just seemed impossible to throw it. That's when I found out that the character auto jumps Did you like oh, I thought you had to jump every yeah, I found that out way too late Yeah, so I found that out because I watched somebody playing the game now I watched them play in the Wii U version of the game and They were having the same problems with the camera and stuff like you could tell they were just fighting the camera the whole time Right, even with the lock on function you go to lock on and it would like fail to like lock on to the thing It was like, you know There's one enemy on the screen if you hit the lock on button and it would still have an issue with that I don't understand why or how but yeah, I just thought it was interesting that bit like, you know The Wii U version still had a camera problem Yeah, and the boss was made very difficult because the camera was tough and that's pretty much how far I got I I got to I knocked the bosses a whole of his shell off and then I just I happen to die and then it Put me at the beginning of the dungeon again. Yeah, that's yeah, that's what I really looks at the clock I'm like, all right. I don't want to I don't want to go through that again Yeah, it doesn't put you I don't think it puts you all the way at the back But it puts you a good distance back like you you had gone through a lot of stuff to get to that. Yeah Yeah, but I guess like you don't have to go, you know, you already still have the grappling hook So you don't have to like right go get it again. You can kind of just shortcut to it Right, that was kind of enough for me. I feel like that was where I was like, okay. I'm not I know Sorry, I didn't beat the game but it's a Zelda game. I feel like I'd kind of yeah Yeah, that was enough for me. If you put me back at the beginning of a dungeon I'm probably gonna and especially like I think I had to stop playing too So I came back to it like a couple days later or something I had already kind of wiped my memory of like where I was and how to get how to navigate the place. Yep So yeah, it's definitely definitely made me what I was saying before it made me appreciate newer games and auto saves I mean how I It is it is mid-april 2023 right now. My wife and I've been playing through Hogwarts legacy and that thing saves every like five seconds like it's the games nowadays It knows that it's frustrating trying to go back and redo stuff But the older games didn't have automatic save some of them didn't have saves at all It definitely felt like some of these older retro ones It was basically just how far can you go this time and then you keep trying over again over and over Yeah, and this this wasn't any different with it had it had some story in there But it definitely was still you're gonna have to keep trying and keep trying and keep trying Yeah, and that's kind of that that's both good and bad I feel like he kind of artificially adds a little bit of like take play time to the games But now they just they boost it with dialogue. Yes autosave and dialogue Okay, so yeah the enemies that were in there Did you I just wanted to mention there was like the smaller centipede enemy and there were like it's kind of cool There were timed attacks on it. Yeah, if you waited for it to strike you would one-shot it I thought that was pretty cool because they teach you when you fight with when the guys teaching how to do you can kind of Like, you know, they had there if he taught you about the time to tax. I thought that was cool Yeah, I liked that that those got me a couple times airing. I think it was like a form of pairing He taught you right all the base level enemies not the bosses because those all have their own mechanics and stuff Yeah, although all the enemies that we encountered I I thought they were good. Yeah, I like the enemies. They're classic It's a Zelda game that you they use a lot of the same enemies, but they change it up a little bit You know from each iteration. I did like the fire centipede boss. I thought it was really cool-looking very ominous Why how is it there? Why was it why were all these enemies in this place that you couldn't even access? I don't know Yeah that that is something that fantasy has an issue with that I think newer games and newer designers and developers are starting to become aware of it that if you if you have a dungeon or locked away saying Why are these things that you've been seeing out in the real world or out in the in the in the open world? Why are they in there if you have if you're in a place that you can't get to why are the things in there? Right at the monster. They make sense to be there to me. They didn't yeah, so I because they were like yeah They were uh, this was like this was a dragon's roost This is like there's literally a dragon on one end of it and a town full of people on the other Did they just march in a bunch of centipedes and stuff exactly like past all these very very busy bird men Yeah, probably I think this is kind of where one I also have to remember that this in a lot of see it was it Was marketed to children so it doesn't have to make all the sense in the world. Yeah But and I think nowadays like the games that were that we're getting into now They know they're they're gonna market it to Not just children there, you know, they can market a game gotta work. They can market it to adults. That's who it's for mostly right you're you're You Teenager and on right? It's not it's not marketed to my seven-year-old. So This game back in the early 2000s This would have been marketed towards my potentially my seven-year-old, you know, a ten-year-old or something So it doesn't have to make the most sense Yeah Because this is what this is one of my comments when you get a glimpse of Ganon for the first time It to me it had a feeling of like oh, yeah, there's this really super big bad, dude That's just there it's like yeah, he's bad and that's that's the answer you get to him That's kind of every Zelda game. Maybe they just assume that you know that there's like a bad dude coming but it was you know, it's like you you and and the reaction I that I feel like that the your character gets was Oh, who's that? Okay, he's such a super big bad, dude. So why did I over sleep? Why is yours? Why how did you not know about it? So you you got this this world in in Wind Waker? Where it's all these little closed off islands but when you right when you step away from your island like the bird people they know all about the stuff and The odd the bird people are the ones that you know Do the mail and they're like the people that connect all these other places outside of people voting But none of this info gets passed around from place to place. It was it was just it was a weird thing Inconsistencies, but again, it's not made to make sense for for you know 30-something year olds doing a podcast in 2023, right? So it was too made to be fun for children Yeah, and it well, I mean I feel like for a kid. This would be very fun. Oh for sure my son I see One of the times I was playing over the weekend trying to figure out that controls He would come up and he would watch me for a couple minutes. Yeah, he liked it But but again, it's bright colors that a game he's ever seen before, you know, daddy's playing So he wants to see what that is doing and all that so Tangent I'm hoping that when we get to some of these games if they're appropriate I can have him play with me a little bit Yeah, yeah, that would be cool. They can kind of get he could maybe maybe could ask him what he thought Oh, you know so you could get somebody who's not jaded Get a little bit of a somebody who doesn't have like that's not like has a sore back while they're playing I go into his room at like 2 in the morning He said they're playing smoking a cigarette like I'm trying to beat Ganon. I'm almost got a look at Ganon daddy. I was gone Like I feel I gotta work in the It's gotta be Ganon, okay. So yeah, I feel like that's kind of the discussion of the game I feel like we've kind of covered everything about like our experience with it Do you want to kind of move on to discussing like, you know, but the overall I feel like we hated it. I Sorry, I I'm not gonna say hey guys don't don't play this game the little I know about Zelda games is from you know, the the little clips online of what I see people playing for Wild or people just talking about it in those gaming space. So I know the Unbelievably basic sense of Zelda and it was a fun game. It had Difficult controls, but it didn't you know, it didn't take it. It wouldn't make me say no I won't ever suggest anybody play it. Will I play it again? No But I'd say if you if you want to experience an old Zelda game and you've never played it before give it give it Try it. Yeah, I kind of feel like I'm kind of in the same boat for the most part I think if you like Zelda games, this is your 10 out of 10 if you're a Zelda guy I feel like this is probably best-case scenario from the little bit I've touched down on other games if you like the 3d era of Zelda the graphics of the game are great It's the sweet spot. Just like the dialogue. I said, it's the sweet spot of graphics. It's Cartoony enough, but it looks it'll never not look good because it's drawn in that or it's you know Made in the style where that's the way it's supposed to look If you compare it to other games at the time period on other consoles God of War. It looks hazy or Blocky some of the enemies just like they look that you know, they just don't look as good. It's timeless It's a perfect art style Great looking game. It's just I don't think it's for me, but oddly enough. I I wish I played it when it came out I wish I had a Gamecube as a kid and I could have played it I feel like it was a perfect summertime spring game It would have been I would have loved to like have a little Zelda action figure and play in the swimming pool or something like that You know, but for sure as an adult, I just it's hard. I don't know. I'm siding with Ganon on this I do I do think to jump in. I do think if I was to go I can play it I may play the what was it? The Genesis had under the Wii U. Excuse me the Wii U They had they had re-released it. So I wonder if that would make any difference in Yeah, cool I'd like to I wish I could compare the two of them But I'm not going to get two copies of the same game and run through everything It would have I think that would have been maybe that's the definitive that might possibly be the definitive way to play it if you Like Zelda, it's probably a 10 out of 10 game if you're like super into it. But yeah, not not necessary I it's weird though. I'm saying all this and I feel like I'm thrashing the game, but in some ways I kind of want to play it still I don't know I don't know if it's just like I feel like I need to keep going or or what it was I feel like it's a good game. It's just maybe maybe I can recognize it's a good game It's just not for me. Yeah, I think the controls really make it hard to want to jump back in for me because Just the camera alone. I mean it defaults to that weird Inverted horizontal axis and the camera will follow you but it's not following you well enough So I mean a little tweaks there just just for like ease of play would go miles but story-wise and and the The the Zelda esque feeling is definitely there I think maybe breath of the wild in this game are probably like at the top of most people's lists more than likely Maybe the Wii U did if the Wii you had motion controls, that would be not the definitive edition The definitive edition if you have motion because that was big with Wii U and Wii was motion controls I don't think anybody would like that Yeah Because I I know there was a there's a there's a Zelda game on the Wii that my wife had played But I cannot to the life me think of what it is right now. Okay next week. We're gonna be doing Aladdin yes going all the way back to the Super Nintendo Sega Genesis era and Gonna be a street rat. I'm a street rat. Yeah, we we went with Of course a 20 year old game this week and we're going to go back 10 years further To 1993 for some good old Aladdin magic. Yeah The week following that we're going to go to actual ping-pong. It is going to Vietnam guys Hey, thanks so much for listening that wraps up our discussion of Legend of Zelda the Wind Waker if you enjoyed this episode Please let us know with a thumbs up a comment or sharing with your friends and family If you're able to do so play along with us We'll post upcoming games to our socials and what games are up next at the end of each episode This has been three two one backlog by Alec L and James C Our show music is ripped off by Amy Waters You can find this song and more of her work at Amy Waters dot bandcamp dot com You can connect with us on any of our social media pages and by sending us an email at three two one backlog at gmail.com until next time You