A & A Speaks Podcast Energy Work 2

The transcription discusses the concept of energy work and how it can be integrated into different paradigms. The speakers share their perspectives on energy work, including intuitive approaches and scientific understandings. They also touch on different modalities and definitions of energy work. The conversation is open and welcoming, with everyone sharing their thoughts and experiences on the topic. enhance and and assist us in the ritual piece. Shamanism, that would be a little bit different because I feel like we are working with ancestral, a lot of ancestral or spirit elemental type beings slash slash energies. So there's going to be finite difference. And then if we're talking about prayers, we're focusing our energy, right? So and and offering our energy in a way that that we are hoping to get a response from it. I know I'm a little all over the place with that, but they're going to be to settle the differences with each aspect that we apply it to. I hope that helps. Yeah, definitely. That I was not too in the weeds. No, definitely. He also asked, Mr. Mage, how can we consciously integrate energy work into our or other paradigms? Do you want to go first this time? No, I'm processing that question for the third time. So how can we read the question again, because I can't see it. How can we consciously integrate energy work into other paradigms? Well, if you if you think about it in a broad way, energy work is going to be part of pretty much every paradigm whenever it comes to metaphysics. If I hate to I hate to say, you know, different paradigms per se. I would say that, you know, my paradigm is constantly expanding, growing and changing. So I can't say that any one school of thought is going to be the best way to look at something. So I think no matter what your paradigm is, to add energy work to it would be looking at your paradigm and trying to see what benefit you are going to get out of the addition of something. So I hope that's not a cop out or confusing, but I think any paradigm is most likely going to be using energy work. And if you're trying to find a way to, you know, get more out of it or try to, I guess, be better, the best thing to do is is to experiment with it and see what you can get done. I would agree with you, Edfang. I don't feel like it is a cop out, because as we are shifting to changing, expanding our views and how we perceive and approach things will to change, right? And so if we're talking about consciously integrating, well, our pathways may change with us as we grow. So like, you know, I think that's a good point. Everyone has a specific paradigm, right, that they are comfortable within. But that doesn't limit how you can approach something. And if we're talking about energy, it is malleable and it is in flux like we are. So, you know, I equate energy and the thought very, very, very closely. So if that is what our conscious is, and we have a conscious thought, which then becomes, which is, you know, an aspect of our energy, then we are consciously integrating that, because we are already having that thought and moving through that within our consciousness and within our exploration of what it means to invest the energy within that. I hope that helps. Yeah, definitely. I agree with you. I think we are a lot on the same page. So, and thank you, everyone, for dealing with my stutter. So energy work, that one definition is based on the construct that the body is permeated by an energy field that can affect our health and well-being, which is also considered subtle energy. Energy work can also be described as dramatic shifts in healing happening and being recognized within the body. Or it is, work is said to be done when a force and they use push or pull applied to an object causes a displacement of the object. We define that as the capacity to do the work as energy. So there are lots of different definitions of energy work. Ways to look at it and to kind of approach energy work. I would like to say welcome, Sketch, for being here with us today. Would you like to join us on stage and speak if you feel comfortable? You don't have to. It's just an option for you. And we'll welcome Mr. Mimage. Sketch, if you, if you actually, oh, there you go. Yep. Okay. We can invite. Perfect. Welcome, Sketch. Hello. Good to join both of you. Welcome. We are happy you are here. And Mr. Mimage, I know you have a lot going on too, but if you would like or feel comfortable joining us on stage, we would love to hear you and hear your voice. We actually answered a couple of your previous questions. So Sketch, we are discussing, this is our second episode covering energy work. Maybe you would be willing to share how you perceive or what you understand energy work to be? Yeah. So thanks for that question. I'm actually not super well-versed in energy work, but it's something that I've looked into, like, learning more from both you and Adfang as well. I think for me, I tend to have like less of like an objective, science-y way of viewing it, which I know like there's quite a few people that have those kinds of theories. But I think for me, I kind of go more from like my intuition with it. Yeah. So that's kind of the beginning of that question. Thank you. Excellent. And you know, Sketch, it's completely okay to go with your intuition that even though I try to take a more scientific approach to it, we still have to go off of what our intuition is and what it says. So it's not, you know, always measured in, you know, some specific way. But going with our intuition is definitely at least a beginning point, and we can expand beyond there. Yeah, that's like really well said. I think it's really interesting because there's just so many different ways that energy work manifests for different people. Like, I think one of my friend's parents was really involved in this one facet of energy work involving like tuning forks, and she really swears by it, which I thought was like really interesting, you know, just how it worked as well. And there's a lot of like really interesting stories that stemmed from it. Oh, yeah, I am fascinated with tuning forks and how they help clearing the biofield of the body, which then relates to the energy field. So yeah, I think that is a huge, hugely fascinating aspect of discussion. Thank you for sharing your perspective on energy work, and we seem to be having a little bit of a technical difficulty. We're trying to bring Mr. Mage up onto the screen as well. Oh, there he goes. Welcome, Mr. Mage. Hi, Mr. Mage. Welcome. How's it going? Okay, I just got back from jury duty. Oh, interesting. Wonderful. Did things go all right? I know you can't talk about it. I can. I was not chosen. Oh, okay. So I'm not trustworthy. That's funny. It doesn't matter. At least you don't have to. Yeah. Actually, my wife was a victim and witness advocate for five years, and it was a sexual assault case. So as soon as they heard that, they were like, no, you can leave. Yeah. Wow, that is crazy. But happy to have you here with us today. It's always a pleasure to be here. Mr. Mage, you consistently have phenomenal questions, and I would like to say thank you for that because you really get Ed Fang and I thinking when we respond. But my question to you for today is what do you consider to be energy work? What would your definition be? Well, obviously, there are a lot of different approaches and modalities and systems when it comes to energy work. So without invalidating somebody else's experience, because who am I to say that what they do is energy work? I would generally consider it a use of an information-carrying medium that is either paraphysical or sort of like ultraviolet light is beyond the spectrum of our sight. Maybe it's a facet of matter that is beyond our typical experience of matter. And it's then used in any number of ways to affect change or communicate information across distance and or time because they're the same thing. And yeah, I guess that's in a nutshell how I would think about it. Okay. Thank you for that. Now, you threw out a term that I am unfamiliar with. You said, did you say paraphysical? Yeah. So paraphysical as in almost like parapsychology, right? Like, it's not psychology. It's not physical. It's parallel to the physical. So paraphysical. I love that. Thank you for that. Yeah, I haven't heard of that either. Thank you, Mr. Mage. Like, oh, thank you. How could you put that English degree to use? Yes, yes. Oh, okay. Yeah, gotcha. So it encompasses, again, a whole nother, a broader, sorry, a broader scope of the overarching umbrella of energy work. Yeah. But like, just to be more specific, all, I would say all energy work is magical in nature, but not all magic is energetic in nature, if that clarifies at all. Very well said. So, right. So here, and you guys, please, thank you for bearing with me. So, we have different, everybody has a different background. And it's great that, like, I feel like we are sitting on a teeter-totter right now. And you, Mr. Mage and Adfang are sitting on one side of the teeter-totter. And Sketchy and myself are sitting on the other side. Nope. And I think it's because you two are, you have been in the greater scope of energy work and pursuing it for a much longer period of time. And you both have a more scientific or clinical, maybe, understanding of it, not to say, like, clinical, let's call it being sterile, but, you know, understanding, like, the terminology, because you have run in that particular field a lot longer where, and Sketchy, please, please jump in if I'm saying anything that does not feel authentic for you. But I feel kind of like, we had to go through the accepting and understanding, you know, the denial that there was a little other more going on, was no longer allowed. So, we kind of, I think, feel more aware that you guys definitely are, you know, you guys have your lab posts on and you understand the brass tacks. Yeah, I'm just like you did. So, it's not, for me, it's not even, like, an understanding of a paradigm. It is just your depth and breadth of understanding is a lot more where I think Sketchy and I tend to kind of put things in the boxes and little categories. So, it's a little bit different, but it's very fascinating to me, because, you know, Mr. Mage, I know that you also have a very large breadth and scope of what you have explored or sought to understand. And so, like, there is that pathway that is similar for myself as well, but you have the, like, you have that clinical foundation. So, what could you, any of you here, what would you share to be the one most important takeaway so far in your journey of energy work and understanding what energy work may represent to you? It might be a little bit of a cop-out answer, but what has been most important for me to get through my sixth skull is that experiences with energy, magic, et cetera, are in no way universal. No matter how similar the circumstances around those experiences may be, it's, like, any attempt to make things truly and perfectly objective is going to fail, because it is something that exists in the realm of experience only, and that is okay. And being okay with that took a while, but, I mean, that's, like, yes, I think Ethel and I both take more of this scientific method approach, perhaps, it's not really science, you know, if you put a P in front of the science, but it's an attempt to be as objective as we can within a subjective system, and understanding that that system is ultimately subjective has been both a journey and, you know, very necessary to arrive at. Excellent. I love that. What about you, Adfang? I would agree with Mr. Mage in that. I would also say that something that I've learned multiple times is to never shut down a path that you think might lead somewhere, or kind of put something off that, let me try to phrase what I'm saying, never completely close down your thought process or an idea of how something may be done, to always remain open to any possibility, no matter how you may think that it would be impossible, but just realize that just due to the nature of how metaphysics is, that anything could be possible, really. Yeah, yeah, exactly. What about you, Sasketch? I agree with what Mr. Mage and Adfang were saying. I think not even just within like energy work, but in just like following a spiritual practice and following like experiences that can't really be like quantified by like academia and like quantified, you know, by scientific method. I think one of the most like important things for me to learn is that like there doesn't really need to be a cause to have an effect, if that makes sense, because I do think that is like a really like scientific way of thinking is by like thinking in like the realm of cause and effect, because that's just not really how things work all the time. So I think that's one like really, that's one like thing that I learned from it, as well as like also carrying like a healthy amount of skepticism, not as in like to invalidate others, but more of like a skepticism of thinking like what resonates for me, you know. So I think those are like the most important things I learned, and like even just being like really aware of like other people's intentions and your own intentions with it. But yeah, what about you? No, I think we, it's amazing that we are all in this concurrent kind of agreement and understanding that for me, it's really important that I would say that it comes down to the individual, right? And I would almost link what each of you has said individually to an aspect of gnosis, right? And for me, it's very important that we don't discredit and we understand that there will be different outcomes because of how energy in the larger meaning or definition moves and flows within each of us. So like if a person doesn't understand where they are in that moment when they're creating or doing energy work, the outcome can be completely different simply because of our internal frequencies or tunings at the time. And I think for me, there's a big piece that seems to be missing when a lot of people kind of talk about it. It's like, oh, you're going to do this, and this is going to be how the outcome is going to be, but there will always be subtle differences. So I agree. I'm very happy to hear that each of you also understands that even though we try to maybe control or have an understanding of what we prefer the outcome to be, there will always be, you know, a shift or a difference in what that potential outcome could be as well as potential positive or negative effects from it. Yeah. Yeah, and just to follow up on some things that were said, I may seem like I'm very harsh whenever it comes to figuring out something or making sure something is happening the way it is, and that comes to trying to make sure that whatever is happening, I'm understanding correctly, and it's either repeatable or someone else can observe the same thing. And that goes back to the more scientific way of looking at things. Yeah, I don't think that you come off as harsh. I definitely always—you are always taking notes, and so I wouldn't be concerned with someone, you know, taking their understanding of how you are processing in a different way than how it is. And if they would, I would hope that they would bring it to your attention or at least ask. You know, like that's kind of where we need to be respectful and understand that everyone has a different way of processing because that's kind of what we're doing when we are doing experiments or building constructs, right? And I'm going to go to that in particular because the idea of creating a construct for me was very out in left field. Not that I did not or was not able to perceive them, but it felt like it was—there was a lot more involved in it, so that would be my personal understanding of how to approach it. Does that make sense? Like it felt like it was a lot bigger and there was a lot more moving parts, and I have a tendency to overcomplicate things, so I felt it was a very complicated process. But come to realize I was doing something similar but in a more, more, more, more, I would say, creative, you know, artistic way as opposed to how I perceived it to be created. And so, like working with Ed Fink, you know, who kind of gave me the parameters and the understanding of how to start, like once you figure out your way, it can be a lot more simple than we understand. Yeah, and I mean, like you said, things that we may think of just working by ourselves, we may think of as either too complicated or not possible, and then whenever you have that third party come in and say, well, have you thought about looking at this this way? It kind of opens up your eyes to a whole new way of doing something or understanding something. Exactly. 100%. Yeah, it's, this is also one of the reasons why it's so, I hesitate to use the word dangerous, but I'm going to, why it's so dangerous to be self-isolating and work only as an independent, solo practitioner. There are just, it's just, there's so many missed opportunities that you don't even realize you're missing solely because you are restricted to your existing framework. There's a lot of times that we invent trouble for ourselves simply because it seems normal to us to think about them in a certain way. Whereas working in a larger group, especially with a diverse set of practices, nothing could be further from that. You know, there's, you see somebody doing pure ritual magic, you see somebody who has never heard of energy, but they do psychic stuff all the time, or you deal with people who have only used energy and they think of it as Reiki or white light or something like that, and it's this very narrow thing to them. But when you bring them all together, when you bring together all these different approaches and mentalities and sort of rule sets, you come to realize that while there may be some fundamental things in common between all these different systems and their similarities, the book is bigger than any one group has. You know, no one is out there with all the answers and they're hoarding it to themselves. It's just not possible. Thank you for sharing that, because that is, I feel it's really important as well to understand, like, if we are continuing on a solo or solitary path without intending to, we can still be self limiting our potential and what abilities we may have, because we don't have someone else to share with a different point of view or a different perspective or a different formulation of ideas. So thank you for saying that. You know, I think that's a really important thing. You mentioned foundational. What each of you, Adfang, Sketchy, Mr. Mage, would you say would be for you in your practices, what has been the key stone of your foundation of practice? I would say experimentation with everything. So not just taking something at face value or thinking about things in one specific way. It's looking at things multiple different ways, seeing how you can get different results by doing different things. But yeah, definitely experimentation. I think for me, it's been more, I've thought a lot about the foundation of the intentions of things, and it's not a lame answer, but I honestly think for me, the core of it has to just be love and community, and even just gratitude as well. I don't know, I don't know, and even just gratitude as well. Because I think for me, the motivation for things like energy work, it would be the love of myself and the love of others, because this is something that I would want to do in order to help other people, you know, and provide this sort of comfort for them. So I mean, it's not even just in the practice of energy work, but even with things like performing divination and performing readings. I think for me, love has to be at the center of it, because then, you know, I just can't imagine another reason to do it, because it's like, what would it be for, to like, I don't know, show off or something? Because I think about even just the messages from people I get as a medium as well, and I think a lot of these messages do come for the highest good. So yeah, I think having that as the foundation keeps me really grounded, and keeps me very centered in what I believe the right thing to do is. Yeah, that's my answer. Beautiful, Sketch, thank you. You know, Sketch, actually, I really like that answer. Before I got into magic or energy work, I grew up in a Christian science household, and I don't agree with much of that doctrine at this point. But one of the things that they always taught that I thought was really interesting and remains compelling, is that sort of the synonyms for God that they came up with, love being foremost among those. So this idea of God as this sort of central originator of existence, and that being kind of inevitably based in love, makes both a lot of sense and also fits right in with what you're saying. It's pretty clear that a lot of, hard to say it, they go, a lot of especially creational things, positive things, have to come out of love, or they just don't really work. Anyway, as far as my own foundation, I think experimenting is good. To say something a little bit different, though, I think not being afraid of iteration. So just because I find something that works doesn't mean I'm not going to try something entirely different to try to get the same results. I like to try to find a lot of different ways to tackle problems, even if I end up with five solutions to one problem. Not only does it appeal to me to be capable in a redundant way, but I've found it really helpful to be able to help others because something that works for me in one way may not work for them, but if I have five different solutions to offer, certainly one of them is going to be close enough to how their mind works and their practice that it fits right in. Excellent. You guys all have really great answers. Thank you for sharing. What would you say would be the foundation of your practice? You know, I would definitely say similar to you, Sketch, except everything should come from love in my perspective. But for me, it's expansion. It's really opening your consciousness and allowing yourself to push beyond what you may understand or your belief system in all aspects, in all regards, and to understand that we all carry a spark of divinity within. So understanding the sovereignty and divinity of self within that expansion of consciousness. To do that, I would say each piece of the puzzle that you say are very important in your foundational, the keystone, the experimentation, the love, the changing how you approach something, all kind of filter in together. And so, you know, it's going to be a little bit different for each of us as individuals. You know, fear can be a very controlling thing. So pay attention to that. Listen to your inner voice, but don't be afraid of pushing your consciousness beyond what you think the scope that you can. That would be my biggest takeaway and my biggest piece of the keystone for now. I love that you like pieced it all together. Well, I mean, and so for each of us, because how we perceive, right, it comes down to our perceptions and our understanding of what energy or what energy work is. And so it's kind of like, you know, if we're watching through a camera lens, like, depending on what filters we put in front of the lens, it's going to be a little bit different. And so, you know, it's kind of like being out in nature or looking at a color wheel or color spectrum, and somebody's going to say, oh, well, that's just green. And somebody else is going to say, well, you know, I really feel like that, you know, more on the chartreuse side, or that one is going to be a little more ever, you know, so it's, it kind of, like, comes down to the little finite details and how we experience. I do, I am curious, because a lot of people have experienced work that is, you know, I do, I am curious, because a lot of people have experienced working with others or have been in groups where others were a little more controlling or manipulative of what the expectation is, or, or the what the, the paradigm and how, how would you say that has affected or changed if you have experienced that in your own journeys of understanding and of how energy work is for you? How would you say that has affected you? You know, like, like, there are definitely people who are like, no, there is only one way or, or this is, this is the only way that you can achieve, you know, this outcome. Does that make sense? Hopefully, I was not all over the place. No, you're clear. I think I was just very lucky that the first group I really ended up with, while they had kind of a strict-ish system with, you know, its own sort of scientific approach or whatever, they made no effort to pretend that their system was the only or best system. They just were like, hey, here's a system, take it or leave it, which left me very open-minded to a lot of other things. I ended up in chaos magic for a long time. And that is even more kind of eye-opening, you know, looking at all of magic as almost interchangeable, really. So while I've run into those groups later down the line, by that point, my eyes were a little too open for their sort of intentional narrow-mindedness to affect me. But I think I was just lucky. Yeah, that is awesome. I think I was lucky in that regard, too. But as my path developed, and as I got a little more wiser, I think I took the opposite approach and started thinking more like, well, this way is working and I can't see another way working. So I kind of regressed in that regard until there was a point where one day it was basically like, well, realizing that I kind of closed myself off and having to look and go, wow, well, all these other people are having different experiences. I think I need to reevaluate what my belief structure is. And that opened me back up to adventuring and looking outward instead of just solely by myself. Because whenever we work just by ourselves, we have a bad habit of maybe hyper-focusing on one thing or going down rabbit holes that basically lead nowhere and just spinning our wheels for a long time. So, yeah, for a few years, I went down the path of just thinking, well, this is the way it is and there's no other way until finally somebody kicked some sense into me and I wised up. Finally. Still a work in progress. And what about you, Sisket, Sketchy? I think for me, I actually kind of had the opposite thing happen where I think there's parts of me that became tolerant in a toxic way to where I didn't have boundaries. As in, I think, so growing up, I grew up evangelical Protestant as well. But it's kind of like what Mr. Mage and Adfang were saying, where there's a lot of rhetoric where it's like, this is the only way. And if you don't choose this way, it's like you either go to hell or even there's also that ontological colonization, which I talked about in the past, which is like, even though you're tolerant of others' beliefs, only your belief is the reality. Instead of, it's kind of like, oh, well, you can have your belief and I have mine, but I know mine's right. So there was a lot of that growing up. And I didn't really resonate with it because I just, to me, it just seemed like everyone else was also experiencing something like very real. And it was weird to say that, like, yeah, like kind of like what Sandy was saying in the chat. But it's like, not just going to hell, but be like, drained and tortured for not believing a certain thing. And as a kid, that's just kind of all I knew. But growing up, and the more people I met and talked with, it just didn't make sense to believe there was only one way of experiencing the world and reality, and there was one truth when so many people have their own truths. It was just my perspective. And so I think that kind of made me swing completely in the other direction, where it wasn't just like, to where I became so accepting of everyone else's truth that I had a problem saying what felt right and what felt wrong to me. Because I think there should be a line drawn when it starts hurting others and hurting yourself. And again, I'm still trying to figure that out, and find a way to be very graceful about it. Because I tend to be kind of someone that, it's kind of the thing where I don't really want to be a bystander if there's something I can do. Because I know we've all experienced seeing someone adopt beliefs that are very harmful for themselves and for other people. And it's like, where does that line draw between being accepting and validating versus saying, this is hurting yourself and others? That's just kind of something I'm still grappling with, and I don't have an answer. But yeah, that's kind of my background on it. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I would like to say thank you to Sandy for being here. Sandy, if you feel like you would like to join us on stage and share with us, just click the hand button and we can definitely bring you up on stage if you would like to. Yeah, Sandy! Sketchy, thank you for sharing part of your experiences with us. Because I think it's really important, right? And I'm going to lean into what you said, and I'm going to ask Adfang and Mr. Mage and you as well, Sketchy and Sandy, if she would be interested in talking about boundaries and the importance, or if you feel, the unimportance of boundaries in energy work. Well, I do want to kind of touch on what Sketchy said. At one point, if we see someone who is being, you know, they're going down a path that's obviously harmful for themselves. And it's objectively harmful, but they're going down it. At what point would we be overstepping or going beyond maybe their boundaries if we were trying to kind of get them put back on the right path, or at least stop going down the path that is objectively bad, but they've been following for so long that it's become their truth, so to speak. Gosh, that sounds like a personal experience that you're alluding to. No, there's no personal experience at all here, but it's a very good question. It is a very good question. Yeah, and unfortunately, it does happen. I would like to add an additional question onto your question. So, well, a two-part question. So, one, how do we determine what is negative or harmful for ourselves and for others? One, and so that would, you know, come down to a judgment or a morality question. And two, why are we not in an open, collective discussion base where we feel that we can openly collaborate with another without offending, because we should be able to share our perceptions without feeling like we are crossing over or stepping on someone else's toes, because we're not doing it to invalidate? So, how would we handle that? That's a great question, and I think that's something that we would need to discuss and figure out. That's kind of what we're doing. So, I mean, is it knowing who you are working with, working closely with, and understanding do we have to feel like we need to say, okay, the path that you are on right now feels a little bit destructive to me. It's not my cup of tea, but, you know, you do you. Or is it to a point where it's simply harmful to self? Is it potentially harmful to others that are involved? Because that is where, for me, that is always where the line kind of gets drawn, you know, because we all should be approaching everything with a level of maturity. Yeah, if I could jump in on this one. I've had, over the years, I've worked with a lot of people who have gotten to bad places through their energetic or magical work or whatever. And for each of them, that's something different. And for the most part, I try to let them figure their stuff out. Because ultimately, that is how you learn. That's how you evolve as an individual, is by going through shit. There is no shortcut to being more experienced. And I have come across enough situations where I have had to draw a line, usually in cases of suicidal ideation, murderous intent, self-harm, and also just, like, even just the complete divorce from reality, you know, and seeing it affect their lives. Those are all situations where I've drawn the line, selectively. You know, I'm not much like, I can't even universally say that, because there have been times where people have come to me with suicidal ideation, and they made a pretty solid argument. But I think it's kind of case by case, because some people are in their right mind when they make a decision like that about themselves. And ultimately, their bodily autonomy is their bodily autonomy. But the vast majority of people are almost tortured into that frame of mind. That doesn't feel like it was as helpful as it could have been. But those have been my direct experiences with kind of those extreme edge boundaries. On that note, I actually do have to get going. It's been great talking to you all. Thank you, Mr. Mage. So just to follow up on what Mr. Mage was saying, I think it's important to realize that while we may have the best intentions in mind for pulling someone out of a bad direction that they may be going, sometimes it is best to let the individual go through it and realize how wrong they are. Because I used to have the idea that it would be great if us as an energy community and a group of peers could go through experimenting things and figuring things out. And then whenever we figure something out, we can share that information with others to kind of accelerate them to the point where we are and kind of grow as a group. But what kind of has happened is you realize you can't just share this information to people because they have to go through it and figure it out on their own in their own way. So this idea of kind of grouping together and trying to excel together kind of requires everyone to also be working at the same pace, kind of going off track there. But I've realized that when it comes to situations like this, it's kind of a case-by-case basis of figuring out where the person is, you know, how far along into whatever predicament they are, and just seeing if it is appropriate to kind of, you know, pump the brakes, help them pump the brakes on what they're doing or guide them. Thank you for sharing that, Edwin. What about you, Sugechi? What would you say? I think it's like hard because I've gone through like removing myself from the situation because I like, you know, I really hate telling people what to do. And I also really hate when people tell me what to do. And I think for me, like in the past, like I've just kind of like removed myself from these people because sometimes it's like you're so far in it that you really, like the confrontation, like any confrontation just would not be like productive or helpful. Just because like the people who I've kind of just set my foot down with, like it was all like it was never well received at all. Just because like these people had like the concept like the in their head, it's like, this is like, oh, it's like my reality. So it's like my reality is correct and no one else's. So even just like pushing into that was something that elicited like horrible responses. And I think the only thing like the thing is, like, I don't regret, you know, calling someone in. I never really like regret that, especially if it's like the intention is for like to speak, like at least my own truth. And to also like, also just like out of like love for the person, you know, even if that's something they may not really be like accepting of. And the one like maybe this is like really naive, but it's like the one hope I have is that maybe like one day, if they choose like a different path, like I hope that they realize like what my intentions were, as well as like, remember what I said, you know, and thought back and like, was glad to have like someone that was like kind of looking out for them because I personally would have appreciated like if I was in that space, people like lovingly calling me in. But that like not as a means to like have someone out, but as more of a means of care. But again, like we've seen it where it's like people just some people are so in it that they're not really like open to like love and care at that time. And, and we may have the best intentions for for someone, or for whatever they're going through. And we may see what we think is the best. But sometimes whenever we intervene, in whatever way we do, sometimes we, we stop development on that person, and they kind of, you know, they then they grow farther away from us. So we Yeah, it's, it's difficult for us to gauge that. And it's, that's why it's definitely a case by case basis. And we have to be cognizant of what we say to others whenever they're going through something like that. Yeah, that's like, that's very correct. Because it's, again, like when you're in a spiritual community, like the one we're in, we're full of like, very, very, like sensitive and empathetic people. And even like, we find spaces like this online, because like, it is so like, so many times that I've interacted with people on our server, and they have said like, Oh, I'm not open about this with anyone in like my physical life at all. And you know, it's such an honor to hold a space like that. And like, I'm like that as well. Like, I'm very, like, quiet about this side of my life. And like, a part of it is because like, people are looking for a safe space to talk to others, you know, about these things and like, have like that nurturing space. So it's like, of course, it's going to like hit like, it's going to hit like, 100 times worse, you know, when you get like a, like a reaction like that you perceive as similar to the one that you could get in your physical life. But the thing is, it's like, I think at least in my experience, like I've been most sensitive to like people, you know, calling me crazy, or like saying like, I need to go to therapy. And so, like, it's hard, because like, I can understand why like people would see stuff like getting called in as something similar to that. When, you know, I think it is like a matter of making sure you're communicating it as like a way like, I don't think you're crazy, or think like, you know, I don't think you need to like be like hospitalized or whatever. But I'm just need to tell you I'm concerned, you know. I mean, I've already accepted that I'm crazy. Everybody will have that moment that old Jesus moment throughout their practice. Right. It just depends on what flavor of sprinkles you put on top. No, thank you. Thank you, both of you and including Mr. Mage for sharing your perspectives. I am going to say that I really believe that boundaries are so very important. And, and when and how we determine to, to let them down that that's where, you know, a lot of the some of the rules that we have in this server, do talk about, you know, if each of you know, there has to be consent given like, oh, welcome Ruby, we don't we don't just allow someone to read our energy without, you know, requesting or engaging, because, you know, boundaries are important, who we allow into our energetic space, and why and when we we have the sovereignty or the autonomy to, to make those decisions. I will say like, you know, being in, in a server that caters to spirituality, spirituality, you know, psi abilities, and path. We have seen, you know, a couple of episodes where, you know, there, there is instability. And it depends on where a person is on their journey. And as a practitioner of, of Reiki, one of the key things that that differs from Reiki than some other energetic healing practices, is that you really need to get permission to practice Reiki on another person, that that that includes, with the strong example of someone who is in the hospital, and they are incapable of communicating. No matter what your intention is, to do good and to help and assist. You cannot do so without consent, because it breaks a tenant of being able to be a channel for the healing energy. Right, right. Because sometimes we don't, sometimes we are not ready to receive the healing. And, and that, if I can take that perspective, and kind of turn it a little bit to someone who is in a, emotionally in a darker space, where they are, you know, contemplating self harm in whatever way, I have to get consent from that person, even to offer prayers. Now you, you, you see my posts, I am always offering prayers, but I always ask permission before I set that intention and say that prayer for another person now, for that particular reason, because that may be a very important aspect of their journey to find themselves, you see. And so is it fair to us, because we are caring and empathetic, and we do not want this person to go through this pain and this emotional tumult that that causes, you know, a lot of the issues that happen when we're contemplating self harm, but is it fair for us to overstep those boundaries? Does that, does that make sense? Yes, yes. I really appreciate that perspective, because I think, like, even when it comes to, like, offering your own perspective on things, like, checking in with the other person is, like, very important, because some people are not in the place where they want to hear, like, what you have to say, especially, like, if it goes against, like, what they're, what they're, like, experiencing, because it's, like, something so vulnerable. So, like, it was really cool to, like, hear you apply that to, like, an energy work. So, like, thank you for that. It's really interesting. Well, so, and thank you for sharing that. I appreciate your feedback to both of you, because we have a tendency, especially being empathic or being in a community where we know everybody has had struggles, right? And so what we do is we tend to come from our own personal perspective. But not everyone is, is open to being able to understand the perspective of, of another, because we may say, you know, wow, when I was in that, in that spot, I really wish that somebody would have been there that maybe doesn't know exactly, but has maybe an understanding. And, and as caregivers, right, anybody who has been a caregiver for another, we have this tendency to kind of autopilot and go into a caretaker mode where, or to fix, right? We, there, there's a lot of fixing that we like to do. And it's not necessarily coming from, from a place of trauma or anything else that just may be a strong aspect of who our personal character is. But that doesn't necessarily make it all right. And so, you know, it's really important how we choose to speak or, or the importance of how we communicate and, and allowing the other person to either accept or to, you know, push away and, and that, that's where we have to take that, take that really self-analytical breath and understand that maybe this is part of their path, and it's not my place to determine for them what is the right path for them, right? Which is, which is a really difficult, a really difficult thing when, when we are very compassionate. Yeah, absolutely. You know, but maintaining our own boundaries is vastly important, and it allows those subtle discernments, you know, to, in essence, have, have a little bit of a, of a shield that we can kind of let things bounce off of. And then while that's happening, we can do some inner reflection. And, and we have to remember that, you know, I, I know I am not a healthcare professional, right, or, or a medical professional, so I can't do or offer what, what's important for the other person. So should we do another, one more episode on energy, energy work, do we think, to, to further expound on different, different avenues? I think this has led to some great discussions and great questions that, that we can ask ourselves and others. So maybe next week we can do something similar and maybe answer some of those questions and maybe answer some of the questions that were asked, but not answered. Okay, okay. I, I, I am open to that. That sounds cool. I wish I knew more about energy work, just to like, to like talk more about it, but I really appreciate both of your perspectives. No, no, you, you do, you do sketch and like, that's the thing. It's, it's your, for me, it's kind of like getting, looking at it as everything that we do under a really large umbrella, instead of like, where, where we break everything down and kind of compartmentalize it. Yeah. So, anyways, from, from the bottom of my heart, I would like to thank both of you for, for being here in this space with me today. Ed Fang, my trustee, he, he's like my, my rock here right now. And so thank you for all that you do. Just, just your presence is very helpful. And, and your, your perspective. Sketch, I greatly appreciate you being here and being willing to join us on stage and, and share your perspectives and experiences and, and holding space with us. And Mr. Mage, he, I, I, I, I swear, like, I could really hang out for hours and feel like I was getting lots of, of, of varying perspectives. And so I, I, I love the, you know, his, the way he views things, but also appreciate and respect his experiences and understandings like each of you. So from the bottom of my heart, I would like to say thank you with, with gratitude for being here with me today. Yeah. Thank you too. Love you so much. Oh, I love you too, Sketchie. I'm glad to be here. I'm glad you're here too. Yeah. We are glad you're here too. You're just awesome, Ed Fang. And this was, we made up for the shortness of last week's podcast. So I guess we should probably roll out of here and say thank you to everyone for joining us today. Yep. We will have a little after party in our voice chat as usual, but we hope to see you next week. I'm Ed Fang. And I'm A.K., A.K. Lady. Thank you. And we have a guest speaker. Sketch, go ahead and sign yourself out too. Bye. I'm Sketch. Bye. Bye.