At the Table with Hilary Kave

Welcome to At The Table with Sarah and Julie, a podcast by three pediatric registered dieticians and moms. They cover a wide range of topics related to food and nutrition. In this episode, they interview Hilary Kav, an athletic and sports dietician. Hilary shares her background and how she got into sports nutrition. She currently works with a variety of athletes at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs, providing personalized nutrition plans. Hilary discusses the importance of individualized nutrition for different sports and age groups, focusing on overall health and wellness for younger athletes and performance fueling for older athletes. Collaboration and resources help guide her recommendations. Welcome to At The Table with Sarah and Julie. At The Table is a podcast by three pediatric registered dieticians and moms who love food and wine. This podcast aims to have insightful conversations about all things food, from navigating pediatric nutrition and managing selective eaters, to exploring oral development, understanding genetic disorders, pregnancy, motherhood, mental health, to promoting sustainability, eating out at restaurants, talking to chefs, and organizations that support feeding kids. We cover a wide range of topics with our goal to provide you with evidence-based insights but also to be a hub of true expert voices in the food and nutrition field. At The Table is meant to be a comfortable environment where we sit down and chat, laugh, and learn from each other, grab a glass of wine, pull up a chair, and dive into the delicious world of food with us. In this episode of At The Table, we had the pleasure of having Hilary Kav, who is an athletic and sports dietician. She is original from the Midwest, where she entered the field of nutrition with a clear mission. She wanted to help individuals from all backgrounds develop a positive relationship with food, adopt sustainable habits, and achieve peak performance. Her passion is to create an inclusive, motivating environment where elite athletes and weekend warriors alike can optimize their athletic performance and embrace healthy lifestyles. Whether they're training for a local event or competing on the Olympic stage, she started out working in a clinical nutrition and food service back in Chicago, Illinois, but her real passion has always been sports nutrition. That's what led her to pursue her master's in sports nutrition at the University of Colorado in Colorado Springs, where she got a chance to wear a couple of different hats, both as a wellness dietician and an athletic dietician. Over time, she had the privilege of working with all kinds of athletes, from local athletic clubs, collegiate teams, to professional organizations like the New York METS-MILB system. Currently, she is a registered dietician for the United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs, where she crafts personalized nutrition plans, working within the Athletics Athlete Cafe, and much more to help the athletes fuel their bodies to peak performance in intense competitions. She also helps with local groups and rehab sites in the Adenta area. When she's not working with athletes, you can find her on trails, in either mountain biking or gravel biking, camping with her husband, or her standard poodle named Indiana Jones, or cheering on the Chicago Cubs. Welcome Hilary at the table. It's so exciting to have you. I think Julie and I are selfishly very excited for this because we want to learn more about what you do in the sports world. I think it's a fascinating area of nutrition and I'm sure there's going to be a lot of listeners that can benefit. Absolutely. I'm super happy to be here and just talk food and sport and nutrition. I love it. Can you give us a little bit of your background? How did you get into sports nutrition and what you're currently doing? Yeah. I think it's one of those where people either knew that they were going to be in nutrition in the world of diabetics or they had absolutely no interest of it, never heard about it before and then kind of fell into it. And I'm definitely a fell into it person. I was actually just a chemistry major and I sat down with a really great professor and they were like, what do you like to do? Because even though you're good at chemistry and you like all these sciences, you literally look like you're dying in my class. You don't look like you're enjoying it. You don't want to work in a lab. What do you want to do? I really love food. I was working as a student worker and then became a student manager in one of our cafeterias and they're like, have you ever heard of nutrition and diabetics? If you have all this science background, you've done two and a half years of science classes, what about this? And I dove head first into nutrition and never looked back. So cool. And honestly, I feel for a lot of us, food is the initiative why we navigate into nutrition and we never really know. And I don't know, I feel at least when I started in nutrition, not a lot of people really understood it. It was the beginning of waves of people really understanding not just food as what we were learning but really looking into why health is so important. Absolutely. So getting into sports nutrition, let's talk about performance. Yeah, absolutely. I think this kind of dives into, I have a very interesting role at the USOPC, so Olympic Paralympic Training Center in Colorado Springs. So I am not assigned necessarily a specific team. We do have dieticians that are with specific teams, depending on who the team is, but we also have individuals that actually work for the committee and that's me. And so everyone that walks in through these doors has the opportunity to come and either do a one-on-one nutrition session with me or maybe a cooking class or a food demo or I just have a conversation with them here in the cafeteria. So I have a wide range of sports along with a wide range of personalities. So it's very interesting that I'm not just one particular sport, which kind of dives into each person is so unique, which I'm sure you guys have talked about with a lot of other people as well, is that each athlete has such specific needs and such specific wants on top of it, depending on what their sport is. Now diving a little bit into that team sports is a little bit more of a camaraderie around food where it might not be as numbers-based, but a proper fueling of hydration, just overall healthy eating, and then diving into each athlete. My position might not be as active as the next position, so that's kind of where that unique amount of numbers kind of comes into play. We see a lot of combat sports here, which is gymnastics, boxing, wrestling, all those kind of weight classification sports, and those are so individualized and so about numbers because they just have to focus on it a little bit more. So it's jumping from, hey, I need you to just get in as much food as possible because you're a swimmer and you're swimming for long, long hours a day and you're a solo athlete, versus I'm building this really, really healthy athlete's plate and I'm fine-tuning a little bit of my numbers because I have a weight classification that forces me to pay attention a little bit more. So it's very interesting and it's very, very unique for each person. You talked about the differences amongst the sports and even so in my new team versus individual, which is really interesting to me, but how can you differentiate between the younger athlete and the older, like are there specific nutrients or specific calories or macronutrients that you really focus on when you're looking at those age ranges? Absolutely. So we do see a lot of younger kids camp here just because it is a training center. Yes, we have Olympians, we have Paralympians every single day, day in and day out, but we also have club teams and colleges and just different groups of individuals that actually have the opportunity to come train here and get athletic trainers, dietitians, other coaches from the USOPC to teach them. So a lot of times we're focusing more on just overall health and wellness because the last thing that we want to do for young athletes, whether it's middle school, grade school, high school, where they're still in that Tanner stage area, we do not focus on numbers whatsoever. We are not portioning here, we don't talk about numbers, we just talk about overall health and wellness and we bring a lot of pictures into it of this is kind of a healthy meal, do you see all the bright colors, diversity of foods. We don't want you to be eating chicken, broccoli and rice every day. That sounds miserable, does it seem miserable? Yes, we are in agreement to not do that. So it's definitely where the focus of enjoyment of food is not just about fueling for you to be an athlete here, but it's social with your team, it's social with your family and it's just starting those conversations of food is good and there's no such thing as bad. Everything fits no matter what, it's just when you're choosing to eat that. I love that you're bringing the social component in so early too and again, focusing on that team, I think that's really great. So how does this translate once they are a little older and they're really fueling for performance? I know it's individualized, but what is your strategy for it? Yeah, I mean, being involved in such a niche sports nutrition world, we have a lot of resources that we all kind of pull from. So even though I'm not designed for a specific team, but I could do a wide range of teams, we're a team collective. So if I know someone that's working specifically with a volleyball team or sitting volleyball, I reach out to her and say, hey, this is what my recommendation was to this athlete, I just want to double check, is this what you're telling them? I know that you work with them a whole lot. So one, it's always collaboration. We're all saying the same thing at the same time when it comes to numbers so that the athlete isn't confused. And then the Academy has a great recommendation, CPSDA, which now turned to ASTD, I think that's correct. They're a great resource too. We have the numbers of, this is an endurance athlete, this is the protein recommendation, it's 1.2 to 1.6. For someone who's weight-lifting all the time, that's when we bulk up the protein to at least 1.2 or above. So it's a lot of ranges of numbers, including carbohydrates, proteins, and fats, and then applying those numbers to that specific athlete and then kind of wiggling along the way. So an athlete's got to test out the protein recommendation and then you can see what happened. Was that enough? Was that not enough? Was it too much? So it's a lot of monitoring along the way of those ranges of recommendations, which is a lot of work. And athletes hate having to test this out and then see what happens. They're always like, no, we're just going to do this. And you're like, yeah, we are going to do this. And then we're going to keep modifying along the way, depending on what's going on. I love that it's such a scientific process and testing it. What does that timeframe look like? Yeah, absolutely. And at least with younger athletes, it tends to just be that maintenance across the board because they're growing individuals. So a lot of the younger groups were not necessarily changing so much. We're just, we need to get that fuel in, we need to keep building because this is a time of your bones. This is where we start to form those muscles so that we can continue to stay healthy for long term and to be an athlete as long as you possibly can. And then when it comes to a little bit more of the elite side, yes, it kind of depends on what's going on. Are we in a training area and we have a lot more time in between competitions or are we a true elite athlete and it's almost you get one month off and then the rest of the year it's competition day? So it definitely depends on the athlete, but yes. A lot of the training, it's loading. Just the athletic trainers and doctors are talking about, we have to change how you're working out along the way and having different recipes so the food does have to modify with that. So it's a lot of communication with what they're doing with their coaches and if they're traveling or if they're stationary. A lot of times we want to make changes quicker along the way with elite athletes just because it's everything's a time constraint almost. So we definitely don't want them losing weight or making major changes right before competition, but we have those short windows in between that we can and we try to do it pretty quickly. So that's why athletes always want those numbers right away and we're going to make the change and we hope we're going to do it as fast as you like. That is so cool. I'm sure there's a difference between endurance versus strength training. So how does that differ in your work? Absolutely. So we have a lot of triathletes here, a lot of cyclists here as well. We have the velo. So a lot of those endurance sports, that's where we're solely focusing on that refueling of carbohydrates. Yes, absolutely. They need protein. Absolutely. We need healthy fat because that's normal function. We want to build all of that muscle that we're using and kind of destroying along the way as we're training to build it back up. But yes, we are solely focusing on carbohydrates because it's our number one fuel source compared to if we're more of that weightlifting, that loading for more of that power athlete. That's where we're focusing a little bit more on protein. You still need that carbohydrate because no one is ever just lifting. You have to balance that cardio along with the weight training. So you still need carbohydrate because you're fueling for the next day. What I tell a lot of athletes is they're always fueling for the next day, the next day. Everything's going to continue to add up that you're doing. So if you're not consistent with it, you're not going to continue to gain depending on whatever it is, whether you're just trying to go longer distance or faster, or you want a little bit more power. So continuing to build, we always talk about how the body is like a car, especially to younger athletes of carbohydrates or gasoline. You have to keep gassing up your car. I gass up my car three times a week. It's a never-ending battle and I'm always going to lose it. Got to keep gassing up. So it's carbohydrates. We talk about proteins, the engine under the hood, that's your main power source, your muscles. So we still have to maintenance that. Clean off your engine. We have to keep putting in some lubricant and then healthy fats through the oil. I need an oil change every three months or every oh so many miles. We can't ignore it. We always need that fat to keep it going. So when you combine all three, it's the perfect machine and your car is super unique on what one that you need more of. Love that analogy. Great way to put it and it's so important when you brought out you're still working with carbs because in the consumer world, there is so much misinformation about how do you should properly fuel your body. What is that balance? You're obviously saying that you have to get that fuel. I know it's individualized, but how much protein versus carbs? What is a healthy ratio for a regular athlete? Yeah. We love numbers, but we also hate numbers because we want to build this healthy relationship to take the number focus off of athletes because it's one less thing you have to worry about. So a great visual that we have is called Athletes Play. A lot of people have that now and different names for it. So depending on your training day and what you're doing, that's kind of what we base their meal off of. So easy day, maybe a rest day, half your plate should be veggies and we're talking normal plate, depending on what you're doing. Half your plate veggies, cooked, uncooked, I don't care if it's a vegetable, solid, half your plate. And then 25% or one fourth of your plate is that protein, whether it's a soy base or you're a meat eater, chicken, beef, eggs, whatever, as long as that protein, 25%, one fourth of the plate. And then the other one fourth of the plate, 25%, that's your carbohydrate, grains, pasta, potatoes, whatever is your fourth day, 25% of the plate. And that's a standard, your everyday athlete, nothing too crazy, worked out a little bit or it was a rest day, beautiful amount. And then depending on how your body feels, okay, I might need a little bit more protein that day or a little bit more carbohydrate based on how I'm feeling, I need a little bit more or snack. And then we kind of build up that next plate to a moderate day, which is what a lot of athletes are here just because maybe you do a little bit of strength training, a little bit of cardio, you worked up a sweat, you at least worked out for an hour. I'm not talking walking around the gym for an hour, do a little cardio, do a little weight. No, you work for an hour minimum, you're sweaty, that's where we bulk it up a little bit. So about one third of your plate is carbohydrate, one third of your plate is that vegetable and 25%, that one fourth is protein. So really you're kind of bulking up your protein while also bulking up your carbohydrate, which is a perfect combo because you're building everything up, but you're still getting the right amount of portions on there. And it's without having to portion out a bunch of things, you're eyeballing it, you're late. And then the last one, and this is for our endurance athletes or those maybe it's a football player, they chew a days or you have a competition weekend where you're having multiple bouts or maybe you're that ultra runner that's trying to build for that weekend race. So half your plate is whatever carbohydrate you want. And then again, that 25%, one fourth is protein, 25% preferably cooked veggies, because we're trying to keep that fiber a little bit lower so that we can get a little bit more food in. Again, this beautiful plate that's going to fuel you along the way. And if you need more, that's where we start having another plate or a little bit of more carbs, then more protein so we can get you full. I love the plate, Rachel. I think it is just such a helpful tool and really helps people not obsess about specific numbers and get too granular when unnecessary, a lot of people are just as clutter when it doesn't have to. Yeah. And keep that healthy relationship with food because half the time it's social anyways, whether you're sitting with friends or family or even with your dog, the last thing I want to be thinking about is portioning and all these numbers when we just need to focus first on what you're eating and then we can dive into the nitty-gritty because if what you're eating is the problem, it won't matter how much you're shoveling in because it's not a balanced plate. Exactly. So I know we've talked a lot about protein and what I'm hearing is that protein in many cases, and obviously it depends on the exact athlete and their size and a number of factors, but that protein number may not be as big as some of us sometimes think. And I think you hit on another important point and that protein is in many more food sources that I think people actually realize. So can you touch on the concept of protein for athletes and secondly, the use of protein powders and if that ever is appropriate for anyone? Absolutely. So I think the biggest thing is yes, as an athlete, you need more protein than you're not working out because right, your muscles need it, you're rebuilding what you just kind of destroyed a little bit in your training, so you want to continue to build that up for whatever you're doing. But yes, we get protein from a lot of different places and it's not the number one fuel source and I always love the joke, I forgot the movie, but it's carbs. You need it for cognitive function. When you wake up, that's what your body is using. It's the glucose, it's in your bloodstream, it's a little bit in your muscle, it's a number one fuel source, the fastest one that you're going to get. And then when those are all depleted, then we start to break into the proteins that are stored and we don't want to do that because if we're using the protein stored there, that's where we're starting to break down that muscle of all the gains that you just had and then it's 10 times harder to rebuild that up during every training session. So the more training that you have to dive into those protein sources, it's detrimental as an athlete because we'd rather use the carbs that are actively in our body and why a lot of endurance athletes will pop in those gels or those chews or drinks because we want to continue to use the glucose that's really easy access and then depending on how long the training is, that's when we start to break into the fat storage and all of that sort of stuff. So it's just the fastest fuel source and it's during those bouts of exercise that we want to use that for us breaking in to the protein stores. So that's I think the number one reason and I think it's just media with everything, carbohydrates are so bad. So even though it's most of the time a mixture of carbohydrate and protein and healthy fat, that it's just all you think of is those sugars versus the other things that are in it. So it's just educating people that most food are actually a combo of things. It's just what combo is the highest in it, which is always a challenge. And I think especially in the elite setting, bodies are seen on TV and with media, there's so much about what an athlete should look like that it puts pressure on individuals. So if they do have a change in body composition while they're in season or out of season, it really affects them. So that's one of the easiest things to modify is food. So it's just refocusing athletes that you need all three and that protein is great and it's absolutely going to build, but so are carbohydrates and fat. Thank you for breaking that down because I think it's so important for listeners and just people in general to start getting educated on that. And that's the point of our podcast is we want to talk to experts like you to start identifying what are professionals really doing versus all the noise and social media out there. We talked about the food, how does hydration play into place, especially for athletes? I'm sure it's a big part of what you do. Yeah, and I can talk a little bit too about hydrations and those beverages, like those protein shakes and different things like that. So hydration is super important, it's just as important as the food that we're eating. And so as elite athletes, we're doing a lot of that urinalysis testing to see, especially before competition, where they are at consistently on the scale so that they know. I mean, I live in the land of Colorado, the land of perpetual dehydration, it's so dry here. We are super conscious about telling athletes, hey, look at your urine, the first initial time that you go to the bathroom and get your hydration status, first looking at what your urine color is, and then depending on what that is, is the next steps that you should take. Whether it's, I'm good to go, I just need a little bit of water this morning. And then maybe during practice is when I kind of switch to that, whether it's Powerade or Gatorade or electrolyte beverage. And then depending on how long their practice is, they might only need electrolytes or if they know that they're having multiple practices, that's when we use the electrolytes and the carbohydrate drink to combo because they need that sugar and they need the electrolytes so that they can continue to practice or play throughout the entire day and not have that rest time after a practice. So it's a lot of educating the athlete and then putting it on them to be responsible for their hydration and then helping along the way at practices. Having the beverages out and then giving them the choice, nope, I know I'm very hydrated right now, maybe a little bit over hydrated, so I'm going to take just maybe a sip or two of water instead of the one with sodium and magnesium and calcium because that's going to get me even more over hydrated. Just putting it back onto the athlete to make those choices and make educated choices when they're at practice or training. These products are for convenience. That is what they're for. It's for athletes that are for a long period of time. If you're not exercising for at minimum an hour and sweating, like a pretty good amount of endurance going on, you're out of breath almost that entire hour, you're actively sweating and then you're probably going to continue on, that's where that electrolyte beverage is absolutely needed because you need to keep going after that. But if you're on a 30-minute cruise or maybe you're just working out at your home gym, if you're not breaking out in a sweat, water is going to do you just fine. Now, if you are doing multiple shorter sessions and maybe get a little bit of each or you're in a really hot basement or you're in a sauna, then we would potentially need something else. It's really just based on are you working up a sweat and then how hydrated were you prior to that. How about when you are doing those longer exercises, whether you're more of a professional athlete and doing longer workouts or training versus the regular athletes who might be going on a longer day hike, are there certain types of snacks or fuels that you recommend to take along the way? Absolutely. Any snack is going to be phenomenal because you're actively working. There's no snack that's off-limits because if you like the snack and it's in this little portion size, then it's perfect. Now, for athletes that maybe are a little bit longer, that's when those convenience foods are supposed to be used and that's where those potential supplements are supposed to be used. Those protein drinks or carb drinks because our guts can be super testy. I know that I'm a person that I have struggled to eat breakfast my whole life and I've trained my stomach to wake up within the first 30 minutes. I'm taking that little protein carb drink and taking some sips of it. From doing that for an extended period of time, I now can sit down and have an actual breakfast meal because I've trained my gut to do so. For day-to-day athletes, you're going to be able to take probably any snack and it's going to be just fine for you to have. There's no snack off-limits. Enjoy your goldfish, enjoy your chips, granola bars, fruit, all of that is phenomenal. For an elite athlete, that's where those gels and those foods, any of those non-fibrous items are really, really going to help because if you do have GI distress, whether you're an elite athlete or not, that's what those are made for. You absorb them really quick, they're going to be really soft on your stomach and on your gut and they're going to fuel you. I don't recommend just having them in your home gym just to have when you're weightlifting or anything like that, but if you are going long distance and you need that convenience food, that's what it's made for. Absolutely. Trying to tell an elite athlete, can you stop eating salads on your heavy day, I need you to just eat cooked vegetables. Like, why? I love salad. I'm like, I know, but your tummy hurts and I need you to get more food in, so no more salads for a little bit. Those are the days that you don't necessarily need a salad. It's okay to have a burger and fries after you just did an eight mile hike. You need to get that fuel in quickly and it tastes good and why not? You just worked your butt off. I don't like that food. Love that. I love that perspective. Love it. Love it. And you also did touch on this. What are your thoughts on not just the protein supplements, but all supplements in general? How do they play a role? Absolutely. As I'm sure you guys' mentality is the same, we're a food first approach. Just take a wide picture of what you're actually eating first before we dive into any supplements. When we have fine-tuned what you're doing, maybe you have an allergy, that's when we start to do the blood testing and we get a doctor involved, we get SportsMed involved or any medical provider and that's when we start to see, okay, I think this might be an iron deficiency or a vitamin D deficiency or maybe a different underlying issue. We know that you're lactose intolerant, so you could be missing these things and then we test to make sure before we ever provide any supplements to athletes. Just because most of the time, if you just modify what you're eating, you're probably going to get enough of it unless you're following a vegan or a vegetarian or there's an underlying issue that we might not know about yet and that's when we start to supplement. It's definitely a lot of communication. It's a lot of working with a lot of different individuals so that we can address the problem clearly. And just because my main focus is food, so of course I'm always going to be a food focus, but a medical doctor or an athletic trainer would be like, well, I see them stomp really, really hard when they're doing a specific thing and they're doing it every single day for multiple hours, so I think this is the problem and we could just fix it this way. It could just be overtraining and everything else is aligning, so it's a lot of that communication factor and then yes, we do recommend different types of protein supplements or things like that. Definitely based on the athlete need and on top of if we know this athlete is never going to eat whatever, maybe they are deficient and they will not eat a green thing. I will never be able to convince them to eat a green thing, but I do know we have the supplement that is NSF certified for sport, tested, tried and true, that there's no banned or illegal substances. That's when you will start to use a supplement, but they still have to eat their meals. They still have to get that food first because the supplement is only going to supplement their meals. They have to do both. That is a very interesting key that I had not thought of, so the NSF certified, that obviously is very important for testing in the Olympics, right? So do you find that supplements that is difficult to find supplements that are NSF certified? I would say it's 50-50 nowadays only because there's so many supplements and if I'm an elite athlete and I am on a particular budget, then I'm going to tend to reach for the cheaper one and it tends to be, of course, those really low, cheap supplements are not NSF certified. So it's really hard of a trade-off to find maybe the perfect supplement at the perfect cost that's going to do exactly what I actually want it to do and not have to change my mindset. I'm like, well, this isn't necessarily what I want, but I'll get this one because it's more within my price range. But you might not actually do what you want it to do, right? It's definitely a dance in the supplement world. I think it's going to continue to be hard for athletes to select those only because they see, well, it says that they test every so-and-so batches and my friend who's also my team uses it and they haven't tested for anything, so I guess it's safe. So it's hard to fight on that when they keep getting tested and it is safe, but it's technically not NSF certified. Very interesting. I do love that in theory, there is that motivator to really try to not focus on supplements. There could be something in it that the athletes wouldn't want to test for. So trying to get it from food is impossible, which as you said, most of the time really is. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But I mean, I totally get it. We all have super busy schedules and if you have kids or a job on top of working out and all, there's so many factors of life, but I would never tell anyone to not have that protein powder beverage because they need to get fuel in. I would rather have you fuel than skip it. We're going to get fuel in. You're going to get carbs. You're going to get protein. It's something that's far better than nothing. And that's a good driving point too. It's such a hard balance, but yeah, you're right. You also have to look at the lifestyle of whether the athlete or the person to see how do we fuel them. I think what's important, I'm hoping this is one of the messages I'm taking away, but I see there's a lot of trainers or some gyms where they just put you in a supplement right away, right? There's fish oil, creatine, and there's no underlying explanation. So to really understand how everything comes into play between the whole foods, your level of training and intensity and how does that supplement bring it into place with your lifestyle. So I want to hear more about your work with the Olympic team and just how you were able to play a role. It's like there's a jewel you make raw. I honestly think I have the best one. I have a counterpart in Lake Placid and we have exact roles, just two different locations. So what I do in preparation of the Paris Games is we actually help create, this is a high performance center in Paris. So literally we take the training center from Colorado Springs and we build it in Paris. And so that includes the kitchen. We bring staff members over and we have a menu that we test here at the training center with our athletes. Did you like the chicken today? No, you hated it? Okay, that recipe is out. So we build this cycle of recipes and we bring it over to the training center and then we execute it. We bring some supplements over because they're tested, tried and true. And I also bring a lot of recovery snacks. So any of the snacks that we have here at the training center, we also ship them over to Paris only because as athletes and as individuals, when you see a product that you continue to train with over and over again, it's recognizable but safe. We know it doesn't hurt the gut and we know that your digestive system is going to stay on track along the way. So that's why we bring a lot of American items over and it's that nutrition label factor. They know exactly what's in it. If they're counting calories or different things like that, I know how much protein's in it. So that's part of my job. So a lot of documents for the government, a lot of proof that it's safe. And then when it's time for the games, that's when we lovingly called it the Athlete Snack Shack right outside the cafeteria where it's literally just a grab-and-go station kind of college where athletes are welcome to come in and they can grab any recovery snacks that they like or if it's before a competition, during competition, they have all of these both American snacks, some French snacks. And also, it's not just athlete-focused items. It's also just like we had Doritos in there. Athletes love Doritos. We have both. So then that way, it's a little bit of comfort but also, okay, I need this for after training this day. So they have both combos of it. So manning the Snack Shack along with working in the cafeteria in Paris and like helping athletes build their plates along with just being that friendly face of, you're at the training center, you're here in Paris and I know that this food is safe and it's one less thing we have to worry about. That is so cool. How does the fueling differ for the Paralympics? So our Paralympics are treated the exact same. They have the exact same menu. They have the exact same options. I would say the only modifier necessarily is that, which we tend to just build it this way anyways, during OLLI, the Olympics, is everything is within reachable form. So even coming into USOPC, I started to recognize more and more of a person in a wheelchair needs to be able to reach every single item as a person who's standing. So modifying the entire HPC so that every athlete can sit and feel comfortable everywhere is really the main change from OLLI to Para. But even during OLLI, it's basically already modified so that literally, everything's treated the exact same. We still have the pomp and circumstance of all the Team USA stuff. They still have the same spaces. So it's, we're equal across the board. That's so cool. Now I'm like, I can do that. Right? I'm like, come on down. I'm like, you are amazing. Wipe down to have more diabetics in vlog staff. Yeah. We're both in the pediatric world, but we are so fascinated and we do work with a range of adults and families. And when I do get these questions, I'm still learning how this works, does help, how do I can modify it for some of my patients too. I mean, I still have so many questions, but this was great. And I hope, Hilary, that we can have you back on a future podcast and we can keep having you on Sports Nutrition and everything that you do. So thank you so, so much. Yes. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us at the table. We would like to thank our guests for joining us today and having this insightful conversation. Please make sure to follow us and like us on Instagram, as well as Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. We are Sarah and Julie.