The Equity Hour Final Part of Immigration Series

The Equity Hour is a monthly show on Gila Munga's Community Radio that focuses on immigration issues. In this episode, the hosts interview Bella Bornstadt, a staff attorney at the New Mexico Immigrant Law Center. Bella discusses the wide range of legal services they provide to immigrants in New Mexico, including humanitarian relief, employment-based benefits, and family-based benefits. She also talks about the various ways immigrants end up in New Mexico, such as through refugee resettlement programs, employment-based programs, and entering through the southern border. Bella highlights the important contributions immigrants make to our communities beyond just economic ones, mentioning their support to friends, family, school, and church communities. The hosts also ask about the impact of recent immigration enforcement changes, including the deployment of military and National Guard to the border and the re-implementation of the Remain in Mexico program, which has led to significant har The following program is pre-recorded. The views expressed on this program do not reflect the views of Gila Munga's Community Radio and belong solely to the program hosts and guests. You are listening to Gila Munga's Community Radio, KURU 89.1 FM, Silver City, New Mexico, and online at gmcr.org. You're listening to The Equity Hour, where the political is personal, a monthly show. The Equity Hour is part of the Kindred Continuum series and airs on the first Monday of the month at 10 a.m. and is replayed on the air the following Sunday at 4 p.m. I'm your co-host, Cindy Renee Provencio. And I'm your co-host, Kit West. And this show will be the final show of our immigration series. We are interviewing Bella Bornstadt, an Immigration Justice Corps fellow of the New Mexico Immigrant Law Center. Bella, tell us about yourself and the New Mexico Immigrant Law Center. Yeah, hi. First, thanks so much for having me on. My name is Bella Bornstadt. As you said, I'm a staff attorney and an Immigrant Justice Corps fellow at the New Mexico Immigrant Law Center. I grew up in Silver City, and I graduated from Azalea Cold Charter School. So it's really cool to be on a program in my hometown. But right now I work at the New Mexico Immigrant Law Center, which is based in Albuquerque. But we serve immigrants throughout the state of New Mexico. We provide free legal services to folks in a pretty wide variety of immigration proceedings, including lots of humanitarian relief, some employment-based benefits, and then some limited family-based benefits as well. And we work a lot with unaccompanied children as well. Wow, that's excellent. That's a very wide range. It is. Yeah, we have a large clientele. Okay. So can we move on to our first question then? Are you ready? I'm ready. Okay. So when we talk about our immigrant community in New Mexico, who exactly are we talking about? And for our listeners, how do immigrants end up here in New Mexico? Immigrants are a vital part of all of our communities in New Mexico and across the country. They form, just like the rest of us, an important part of the social structure. They're woven into the fabric of our day-to-day lives. And I think it's important to note that although a lot of what we hear about is the economic contributions and how important immigrant businesses and immigrant labor is to our communities, and certainly we rely on our immigrant neighbors for all sorts of economic contributions, I also think that no one is reducible to our economic contributions. And our immigrant neighbors and community members are also providing vital support to their friends and family, to their school communities, to their church communities. So I think that it's important to note that immigrants are part of our communities in some cases in ways we don't even realize or appreciate. But you also asked, how do people from other parts of the world end up in New Mexico? And in an unimaginable variety of ways, people find themselves in New Mexico. Refugee resettlement services in New Mexico have place in Albuquerque alone, I believe people from close to 27 different countries. So people from all over the world are here in New Mexico and making homes and building lives in New Mexico. And there are, like I said, a variety of ways that people end up here. Some people enter through the southern border. Until recently, people could request or receive an interview through an application called CBP-1, and that would provide them with sort of a permission to enter. And then they could be in the United States for the duration of their proceedings, whatever that proceeding might look like. And some people enter through the southern border without having an appointment. Lots of people come to the United States and end up in New Mexico through refugee resettlement programs, as I mentioned, also through employment-based programs. So a lot of the doctors and teachers here in New Mexico and across the country are part of different employment-based immigration programs. And that's actually just a handful of the many, many ways that people from other parts of the world end up in the United States and end up in New Mexico. It's also worth noting that people have to go through really complicated processes to achieve or to gain regularized status in the United States, and there's not, like, a general application in order to come to the United States or to regularize your status once you're here already. You have to prove that you're eligible under pretty narrow categories. And so for the most part, when people are applying for benefits, either in New Mexico or across the country, it's by proving that they're eligible for one of these pretty narrow categories. Okay. I have two things that occur to me. So these immigrants that are, like, doctors and nurses and things like that, are they impacted right now by what's going on? I know there was a doctor from Lebanon who was deported. Are those kinds of immigrants being impacted here in New Mexico that you know of? That's a good question. I can't speak to that directly, but I will say there's tremendous fear, and I don't think that's an accident. The new administration is inspiring a lot of fear in people through actions like those that they took against people all across the country, including the doctor from Lebanon that you mentioned. And I think that trickles down, and I think people in New Mexico are feeling that as well. Right. Another little question. I'm wondering, you say that we interact with immigrants, and they impact our lives in ways that are not necessarily, you know, reducible to economics that we might not be aware of. Can you give me an example of that? You know, I teach at churches and in school communities and everything like that, but are there ways that we, like cultural ways or something like that, that our listeners might be interested in hearing, that they are impacted positively and they're unaware of, and that this would be a real loss if we didn't have this in our community? Am I being clear? I'm not sure. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think, you know, I think it's personal to each individual. The people who we interact with and the people who we're close to and the music and the art and the food that we consume is so individualized, but I think all of us listen to music that's produced by immigrant producers and artists, and we all love art, whether it be fine art or literature that's created by people who immigrated to the United States. I have a lot of really close friends who are immigrants and whose personal experiences as people from other countries and whose personal experiences as people, period, have impacted me and are, like, that's an inextricable part of who I am because of those people who were able to be in the United States and make lives here permanently and or temporarily. Right, the richness of diversity, I think, is what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, thank you. Yeah, so what are some of the changes we are seeing in regards to immigration enforcement statewide in New Mexico? Yeah, so there are a few things that I think I'll address by talking about some of the national impacts, because it does trickle down. And if you need me to clarify, if you'd like me to speak more specifically to what's happening in New Mexico, or if I've missed something that you feel is crucial, please follow up. But a few of the executive orders that we saw come out right away had massive impacts, if for no other reason than that they, like I mentioned before, make people really scared. But I'll start with the Securing the Border executive order. And one of the things about New Mexico that makes us really special is that we share a border with Mexico. So the things that are happening on our southern border impact people in New Mexico, whether they're immigrants or not, in part because of the infrastructure of these policies. So, for example, the Securing the Border executive order deploys military and National Guard to the border. And we already know that the militarization of the southern border has massive impacts and causes really significant harm to people. But deploying military and National Guard from the federal government will increase that harm and up the scale of harm that's being caused to people at the southern border. And then it also, the Securing the Border executive order also re-implements the Remain in Mexico program, which requires people who are entering, or people who present themselves seeking protection at the southern border, requires them to wait in Mexico pending their immigration proceedings. And this may seem like sort of a small issue, but in fact it's really significant. People who are forced to wait in Mexico face all sorts of due process violation. People aren't allowed to enter for their court hearings and then they're ordered to remove without having any opportunity to present evidence. People face really significant threats to their life and safety in Mexico. There is a pretty substantial industry that has sprung up in part because of the first implementation of the Remain in Mexico program under the first administration, the first Trump administration. And people, for example, I meet with, have met with hundreds of immigrants who passed through the southern border and every single one of them has at the very least been faced with threats to their life. And many, many people, hundreds of people who I've worked with, have been kidnapped and faced physical violence in Mexico because they're identifiable as immigrants and they're targeted because of their status as immigrants in Mexico as part of a criminal underworld that is profiting off of harm to immigrants in Mexico. So there's that. The other thing that securing the border executive order does is it bans asylum generally by declaring an invasion. And then it also terminates parole programs for asylum seekers to enter lawfully or with some kind of permission. And those are specific to countries, to specific countries, but it provided a way for people to enter and remain in the United States while they pursue some other kind of more permanent protection. And it also instructs DHS to expand detention programs to detain all asylum seekers who are apprehended at the border. And that specifically impacts New Mexico because we have three ICE detention facilities in New Mexico. And so we are right now complicit in really substantial human rights abuses and I think we'll have the chance to talk about that later. But I just wanted to flag that because these things seem maybe distant, but they are actually immediate. There are people in our communities who are subject to detention because of these expanded detention operations that are taking place across the country and in our state. The other thing that the new administration has implemented is a refugee ban. So there are people who had flights, there are people who were on planes being prepared for resettlement in the United States pursuant to refugee programs who were pulled off of planes and are awaiting further directives from this administration before they're able to begin building their lives, rebuilding their lives in the United States. And then I also want to talk about the expansion of expedited removal because this does impact New Mexicans pretty significantly. And it impacts everybody because of the expansion. So under the Biden administration, expedited removal, which is a way that the federal government can deport people without any due process basically. It allows a low-level administrative officer to determine that a non-citizen or someone who is a non-citizen doesn't have any regularized status or no permission to be in the United States and deport them without presenting any evidence to an immigration judge or being able to tell their story or prove their eligibility for immigration benefits. And under the Biden administration, that program, that procedure, expedited removal, was limited to people who were apprehended within 100 miles of the southern border or of U.S. borders and who had been in the country for fewer than 14 days. Bella, let's pause for a second so I can do the station ID, right? Sure. You are listening to Hila Mendes Community Radio, KURU 89.1 FM, in Silver City, New Mexico, and online at GNCR.org. You are listening to the Equity Hour, where the political is personal, a monthly show. And we are interviewing Bella with the New Mexico Immigrant Law Center. And please continue where you left off. Thank you. I was explaining the expansion of expedited removal under the Trump administration. And I said before that under the Biden administration, only people who were apprehended within 100 miles of a border who had been in the United States for fewer than 14 days or were in the United States for fewer than 14 days could be subject to this expedited process by which they can be removed without really any due process. Under the new administration, this process has been expanded to include anybody apprehended anywhere in the United States who has been in the U.S. for fewer than two years. So that's a substantial expansion. And also, it's important to know this doesn't apply to people who are in the United States with some kind of visa or if you have a green card or some other sorts of regularized status. This applies to people who don't have regularized status in the United States and are apprehended within two years of entering the country. And I'll talk a little bit later, or you all can let me know if it's better to talk about this now. But I can explain a little bit about how to protect yourself from being removed under expedited removal. But for now, I think it's enough to just say that this suggests a lot more people, including people in New Mexico, to this really rapid process that doesn't provide for the opportunity to prove that you are eligible for some kind of immigration benefit. And just quickly, I know we have a lot to cover. Is that being followed, the two-year thing, or is it seems pretty free-for-all? You know, all sorts of different people are being picked up, people who have been here for, you know, 20 years or something like that, right? And so is this just what it looks like on paper, and then acting it out is even worse, or am I reading the wrong news? That's a good question. I think that lots of people are being subjected to expedited removal, even if they have been here for more than two years. There are different theories about how the federal government is justifying that, how they're able to demonstrate, or their theory around why somebody might be subject to expedited removal despite being here for so long. I think it's unlikely that someone who's been here for 20 years would be subject to expedited removal, but I actually couldn't say. It is unlikely, and people who've been here for 20 years probably have a way of proving that they've been here for that long, like a state ID that was issued more than two years ago. They have maybe other forms of documentation. They're receiving bills and things like this that demonstrate that they've been here for more than two years. So I think in that way it's unlikely that someone who's been here for that long would be subject to it, but it is worth noting that these sorts of erroneous things can happen, and knowing how to protect yourself is important. But the other thing is, yeah, and I'm looking forward to talking about how we can all protect ourselves. One other thing that I just wanted to mention with regard to expedited removal and specifically to your question, Kit, is that people who have been here for a really long time are being arrested by ICE, and whether or not they're subjected to expedited removal, a lot of people are being detained and are being forced to go through removal proceedings, which is a very long and grueling process and requires a lot of resources, are being forced to go through those proceedings from detention in large part because of the administration's policies around keeping people detained throughout their proceedings, in a way that hasn't always been the case. No, they used to have ankle bracelets, some of them, right? Yeah, and you know what? There simply isn't enough detention space for everybody who's in removal proceedings to be detained, so a lot of people eventually will be released. But I will say it's been a long time since people have been released from detention in New Mexico, and that has a big, big impact on families. It has a big impact on individuals, and the ripple effects of that are significant. I have a question before we move on to the next one. How does the Trump administration's inaction of the Aliens and Enemies Act play into all of this? Yeah. Well, I might not be the best person to ask about that because I'm not terribly well-versed in it, but I will say that there are a lot of people, especially Venezuelans who've been accused, without any evidence of being members of the Trinidad-Aragua gang, who are being removed to El Salvador and Venezuela, being justified. Those removals are being justified by an Alien-Enemies Act. And that's a huge threat to all of us, regardless of our immigration status. If someone can be, without any due process, accused and harmed in that kind of a way, we're all at risk. And I'm not fear-mongering. What I'm saying is if people can be removed without due process to such a significant degree, if someone can be accused of being a member of a gang based on a tattoo that maybe many of us have, a rose, a crown, lots of people have tattoos like that that mean nothing, or that mean something completely unrelated to affiliation to a gang. And if they're not given the right to prove the origin of that tattoo and to prove they're not affiliated with a gang, if that identity isn't respected, then I think that's a concern for all of us, regardless of our immigration status. Agreed. Absolutely. Should we jump on to detention centers? Yeah. Do we want to talk first about how, like, a Know Your Rights segment as well? Sure. Because we were just talking about how people's rights are being violated. Right. Also, there are a lot of rights that we all have, regardless of our immigration status. And it's important for everybody to know those rights because, as we all know, we can protect each other with information. So, first, with respect to expedited removal, the things that folks can do to protect themselves are to, first, know your rights. And I'm going to talk about what to do if you encounter an enforcement operation. But also, if you absolutely have to, you can show proof that you've lived in New Mexico for more than two years. That would be something like a state ID card is preferable. So, like, in New Mexico, you can present your state driver's license that shows that you've been here for more than two years. And if you have lawful sense, if you have a green card, if you have deferred action of some kind, you should show that to demonstrate that you can't be subject to expedited removal. And then the other thing, and this is something that we can all do, regardless of the risk that we face when it comes to immigration enforcement, is the right to remain silent. We all have the right to remain silent if we are stopped by an immigration enforcement operational officer. You don't have to open the door if ICE comes to your home. You do not have to open the door. If they present a signed warrant by a judge, the warrant must be signed by a judge. And I will note and emphasize, I will be emphatic about this, they will not have a judicial warrant. It's very, very unlikely that they'll have a judicial warrant. And you don't have to open the door for ICE if they don't have a judicial warrant. It's safe to just not open the door if they think they have authorization to enter, they won't. You also have the right to remain silent, and you don't have to sign any documents without legal advice. You don't have to consent to any searches, or you're protected against searches without your consent. You can say, I don't consent to this search. And that might make it less likely that you'll be subjected to a search. And if nothing else, you can remind them that you don't consent to the search. And then another thing, this is really important, children in schools aren't required to answer questions from ICE agents without the presence of a parent or a legal guardian or an attorney. So those are just a few things that we can all just keep in the back of our minds and our back pockets in case we encounter immigration enforcement agents. Yeah, I think people don't know that one about the children very much. The children are, I have friends who teach in Arizona and their students are being approached as they leave school by ICE agents and they're terrified. And they don't know, how would they know, right, that they don't have to say anything. You know, you've got this big adult standing over you saying, where do you live? What's your address? Stuff like that. Yeah. So I think that's something that I'm glad that you mentioned for our listeners, right, that this is something that I have not heard. And I've heard a lot, you know, because I know people who are elected who are teachers. I haven't heard that. So it's good to know that the kids don't have to do anything unless their parents are present. Yeah. Yeah, that's important. And it can look different in different contexts. I mean, in school, that's the case. Children in school are not required to answer questions from ICE agents unless or without the presence of a guardian or an attorney. But in school, I mean, this is what's happening. They're walking out of school. Right. Right. Well, they have the right to remain silent. So even if they aren't protected, if they're not in school, they still don't have to answer questions. They can say, I don't want to speak to you without my parent or without an attorney. I will remain silent. Okay. And it can be different, too, like regardless of whether they're children or adults. Sometimes the – or not sometimes. What the rights that you have are a little bit different depending on where you encounter ICE. If you're in your home or workplace or you're stopped in public, it can look different. And there are a few kind of general rules. So I mentioned you have the right to remain silent. You can – you're protected from searches without your consent, and you don't have to sign any documents without legal advice. But also just some general, like, comportment strategies. It's important to stay calm. These situations are very scary. But the more panicked you become, the more you risk impacting your proceedings down the road or your case down the road. It's also really important not to lie to any government officials. And certainly in an enforcement setting, it's a really bad idea to lie because that will make your case a lot harder down the road. And you can speak to a lawyer and you can ask to speak to a lawyer if you encounter ICE agents or federal agents who are enforcing immigration laws. And then the other thing is that despite some recent immigration regulations, we've all heard that places are no longer considered, quote, unquote, safe, like churches and schools and hospitals, that enforcement operations might still take place in those places. But immigrants, everybody, including immigrants, have certain fundamental rights, including, like I mentioned, the right to remain silent and to refuse searches and to seek legal representation. And we also still have the right to access those resources. We all have a right to health services. And if you are afraid of seeking health care, you should know that you do have the right to health services. Emergency hospitals are required to treat all individuals, regardless of their ability to pay or immigration status. And although policies have changed, and ICE may now access places where it wouldn't have previously, like hospitals and schools or churches, we all still have the right, and immigrants still have the right to access the services that those places offer. And then a couple, I just want to flag a couple of important reminders quickly, which is one that ICE needs a warrant to enter your home. And so if they're asking for permission, it means they don't have one. And then finally, your employers can deny ICE access to non-public areas of the workplace. All right. So you are listening to HILA Members Community Radio KURU 89.1 FM, Silver City, New Mexico, and online at gmcr.org. You're listening to the Equity Hour, where the political is personal. And we are interviewing Bella from New Mexico Immigrant Law Center. Continue, Bella. Thank you. Thank you. I want to just talk quickly about what to do if you encounter Border Patrol, which is probably more likely for folks in the Silver City, Grant County area, because it's so close to the southern border. And that's where Border Patrol has increased authority within the 100-mile border zone. And so I'll just, like, remind the community that you can't be stopped based solely on your appearance. And you have the right. I'm just going to emphasize this again. Like I said, you have the right not to consent to searches or answer questions about your immigration status. And it's also really important to have an emergency plan in place in case you are detained in one of these operations. So one of the things that we're suggesting is that people keep important documents in a safe place and that you memorize a few key contact numbers, because you might not have access to, you probably won't have access to your cell phone if you are detained by ICE or Border Patrol. And then also we're recommending that people work with a lawyer to prepare legal strategies and also to designate certain trusted caregivers for your children. So you can sign certain documents to give people authority to make decisions for your children in the very limited circumstance that you're detained in a removal operation. Does this include banking information, stuff like that so your money can be accessed to support your children if you're detained? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, exactly. And so I think that's why it's important for people to work with an attorney or there's a lot of organizations that are providing pro bono services to folks to help people prepare in case they are detained. Okay. So Bella, there's been reports of U.S. citizens and Navajo Nation citizens being detained and questioned. Do U.S. citizens and Native Americans also need to prepare for being detained? Well, ICE and Border Patrol, immigration officials broadly, don't have the authority to detain U.S. citizens, including Native Americans. So that being said, that doesn't mean that somebody who isn't subject to the authority of these agencies might not, on accident, be detained by immigration officials. And so it's unlikely, but it is important just to let people know, like, hey, I'm a U.S. citizen, and if you're concerned about it, you can carry documentation to prove that. If you feel the need to carry some form of proof that you were born in the United States or that you're a member of the Navajo Nation, that can be valuable. But, again, these agencies don't have authority over U.S. citizens and certainly don't have authority over members of the Navajo Nation or members of any other tribal organization in the United States. So you're not subject to their authority. That doesn't mean, like I said, that you might not be caught up in this because these operations are being done really quickly and without. There's a lot of risk in them in that way. But you're not subject to their authority if you're a U.S. citizen. And so you can carry documentation, but also knowing your rights. Like immigrants, you have the right to remain silent. You don't have to consent to searches, and they need a warrant to search your home. So those are all things that we all have, regardless of our immigration status. Okay, thank you. Do you want to go on? Okay. So what do you wish people knew about immigration detention in New Mexico? Yeah. I think this is an issue that is very personal for me because I spend a lot of time in detention facilities, and I spend a lot of time visiting with people who have been harmed in really tremendous ways because of facilities that are operated here in New Mexico. And one thing that I want to make sure people understand is that the facilities in New Mexico are operated through what's called Intergovernmental Service Agreement, which means that the county governments are contracting with private detention companies, and they're also contracting with ICE for the purpose of detaining immigrants in those private facilities. So our county, our local governments are participating in the detention of noncitizens in our communities. And that's the first thing I wish people knew. And then the other thing that I want people to know is that the people who are detained in these places are, like I mentioned at the top, there are community members. They're fathers and mothers and siblings, and they're teachers and doctors and lawyers, and they're the people who keep our roads operating, and they're the people who feed us, and they're subjected to harm at a scale that is pretty unimaginable for most of us. They're eating food that comes from kitchens that are infested with rats. Their cells sometimes have rats in them. The food that they purchase from commissary is sometimes eaten by rats, and then inedible, obviously. They don't get medical attention. There are people right now with cancer, with amputated limbs. There are people with traumatic brain injuries and broken bones, and also minor things that also need attention, like colds and allergies and diabetes and chronic issues that impact their daily lives that might not seem immediately urgent, but without proper care can become urgent really quickly. People live with fear in these facilities that they're going to die because they're not going to get the care they need when they need it. Those are really basic things. People aren't getting proper hygiene. The water that comes out of the faucet is scalding in some cases, and so their skin gets burnt. Sometimes it's cold, and it's the middle of winter, and they're forced to take cold showers because they need to bathe, and their cells aren't heated. The units aren't heated. They're cold all the time, and so people have just like chronic bronchial and head colds because they're not getting adequate medical care. And then they're also in these frigid temperatures without proper clothing, without proper bed clothes, adequate blankets on their beds. There's plumbing issues in these facilities that are disgusting. Like the walls sometimes run with water, and then their mattresses are soaked, and they have to sleep on soaking wet mattresses. Or all of their clothing gets soaked because it's been in one of these floods. Or even, and this seems minor, but sometimes there's just water on the floor because the pipe is leaking, and so someone might slip because they don't realize that the floor is wet because they're not expecting it to be wet, and then they fall and they hurt themselves. And, again, if there's no medical attention, including in many cases not adequate emergency protection or emergency care, even a minor slip and fall can be a really big deal. People aren't able to contact their loved ones. In many instances, including at this very moment, there are people who aren't able to make phone calls out because they're prohibited from accessing the phone. They're not able to contact their loved ones. They're not able to contact their attorneys. The access to due process is limited at best. They're not able to present evidence. They're not able to gather evidence. In some cases they're prevented from presenting the evidence that they've collected to the judge because somebody has refused to present it to the judge on their behalf. These are really significant issues, and it's happening across the country, but it's happening right here in New Mexico right now. And, like I said, these are our community members. Exactly. I know this is a question that comes a little bit later, but that's why I was wondering if these private detention centers are being at all phased out here in New Mexico. As I've read, we're in Illinois, and Illinois, they were so horrible that they outlawed them. This is my information. You can tell me if I'm right or wrong. And then the documentary that I saw, they mentioned New Mexico is the only other state that was even considering phasing out private detention centers because of the abuses. Do you know anything about that? Yeah. There has been a really strong and nearly successful effort to end immigration detention in New Mexico. The legislative session here just ended, and there was a bill that was almost made it all the way through that would have prevented or prohibited those intergovernmental service agreements that I mentioned that make it possible for local governments to contract with the federal government to detain noncitizens in New Mexico. It made it almost all the way through but didn't, but we're going to continue pushing. There are efforts underway as we speak to continue advocating for shutting down these facilities because it's so clear that they are inhumane and do not align with the values that we have as New Mexicans. Right. And I think a lot of New Mexicans have no idea that they are actually supporting this, right? They're out there protesting for immigrants and everything, and yet they're, if I'm understanding this correctly, their tax dollars are being used for these facilities. Is that right? Yeah, well, that's a really good question. The economics of it are complicated, and I think what it comes down to more is that money flows into our communities from these facilities, that some of the programs and the resources that we have access to are the result of these really harmful carceral practices. But it is also the case that our tax dollars go to funding these facilities because our governments are paying private corporations to hold these people in the facilities. And with what are they paying them, right? They're funded by us. Exactly. Right. Exactly. So, Bella, what are advocates in New Mexico doing to support immigrants and prevent immigration detention in New Mexico? Yeah, so I just mentioned the Intergovernmental Service Agreement ban, and we are going to continue pushing for that. We are continuing to gather stories and lay out the facts of the impact of detention policies in New Mexico and the practice of detaining immigrants in New Mexico. We're also in communities every day. We're providing Know Your Rights presentations so that people know how to protect themselves in the face of these really harmful immigration enforcement operations. We're providing legal services to people to make sure that everybody who needs access to legal services has those services. It's a big fight, and it takes place on a lot of different fronts. It's educating people. It's learning about what our communities need. What can we do to ensure that in the absence of these harmful carceral economies that rural communities in New Mexico are still thriving, because ultimately that's what we want, and we believe that our communities will thrive and flourish, not only in spite of the prohibition of immigration detention in New Mexico, but because of that prohibition, that communities are better off without those harmful practices. And the other thing that I'll just note is that we are also in the detention facilities every week, talking to people, gathering information, providing information to people who are detained so that folks know how to contact their families. Families know how to contact their loved ones who are detained. There's a network of rapid response that is connecting families with loved ones who are detained to legal service providers. Yeah, there's an extensive network, and a lot is being done to protect immigrants in New Mexico. Well, there are a lot of other organizations as well as yours on this front. Yeah, it's absolutely a group effort, and each of us is playing a small and mighty role in the movement and offering the different resources and strengths that we have as organizations and as individuals, too, I think. So if I understand you correctly, what you were saying just a bit earlier is that economically we would all be better off without these private detention centers, even though they give us something, right? But it's not worth it. Is that correct? We would be doing much better off even financially without them. We don't really need them as an economic resource in New Mexico. Is that what you were saying? Yeah, exactly. I think what's happening is that private companies, massive, massive private companies are receiving money so that they can harm people effectively, and that doesn't serve anybody, and that money can be spent in our communities. We can invest. Instead of investing in enforcement, we can invest in our communities, in education, in health care, in child care. Those are the places where that money can and should go and can't right now because it's going to these private companies. Absolutely. You are listening to Gila Mimbres Community Radio, KURU 89.1 FM, Silver City, New Mexico, and online at gmcr.org. You're listening to the Equity Hour where the political is personal, and we are interviewing Bala from the Mexico Immigrant Law Center. Kit, do you want to ask the next question? Do I want to jump since we sort of covered some of these? Yeah. So I had a slew of things about detention centers. Vis-à-vis their locations and this whole location thing. I really don't understand it. I think they're often in remote locations. This is because they were formerly prisons, and they used to put prisons away from cities and things like that for safety. And then I don't understand this thing of like how why people are moved. Like their court date is coming up, and they're moved from an already remote location to one even more remote so that their families and lawyers are at even a greater distance. So this is something that is this intentional? Is this part of the legal system? Or can you explain this a little bit to our listeners? That's a good question. I certainly can editorialize, but I'm probably not the best person to ask about these things because I think that they're part of like really big anthropological patterns and social patterns, including, like you mentioned, like keeping people kind of in the dark. But I will say that as somebody who drives to these facilities every week, it's a burden. It's a long way to drive and can be a deterrent. It keeps people further from their families, makes it more difficult for people to get legal services when they're in these remote locations. It's hard for people to get access to attorneys. There are very few attorneys in New Mexico and even fewer attorneys who provide like free legal services to detained immigrants in New Mexico. And so these remote locations just make it that much more difficult for people to access legal services. So I think without saying why that happens, because I can't speak to that, what I can say is that it certainly is an obstacle. It creates difficulties for people in their cases, and it creates difficulties for legal service providers in providing the necessary services, and due process is impacted in that way. So everything is negatively impacted or exacerbated by these remote locations, right? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's been my observation. Right. Yeah, well, it just seems like a plan. Like I was reading about this and that their court date comes up and maybe you said you're not the one to approach this subject. It seems very strange, you know, and then they are moved right before that like the student from Columbia who was sent to Louisiana, right? And this is a New Jersey issue. So like legally, what is the law around these things? I mean, is this legal? Is this part of the way the system works? And so, you know, can it be changed? Yeah, well, that is part of the issue is that ICE retains a lot of discretion. So I can't speak to whether or not it's legal in any particular situation, but I will say that ICE does have a lot of discretion when it comes to their detention authority. Part of that means that they can release people, almost anybody at almost any time. There are very few instances where someone is subject to mandatory detention Most people in detention, in fact, 60% of people in immigration detention have no criminal record. And all of those people are eligible for release at any time. The other thing that I'll say is these transfers between facilities are, there are a lot of them happening right now. And I can't tell you why, I don't know why that's happening, but it is, again, another burden. And it has a huge impact on people's access to due process. Like I said, if your attorney is located in New Jersey and you're transferred to New Mexico, it's going to be a lot harder for your attorney to provide representation, especially if they're required to show up in person for a hearing in New Mexico, and especially if they're an attorney at a nonprofit organization. That has a chilling effect on legal services that impacts people in ways that are big, like being able to win their claim for release, and in ways that are small, including their ability to have a phone call with somebody who's on the outside who can tell them what's happening in their families, who can give them updates about small things that, for most of us who weren't detained, don't seem like a big deal, but have a really big impact on people's well-being and their immigration cases as well. Yeah, there was an interview with a prisoner in that Louisiana facility where the Colombian student is now, or I don't know, maybe he's out by now, and they think that they are being held because it makes money for the system. That's what he said in the interview. Do you want to weigh in on that? Or do you want to leave that one alone? Well, it is specific to specific cases or specific facilities, so I can't speak to that particular facility, but these contracts, including the ones here in New Mexico, are based on beds that are filled. And so people detained in the facilities are, on an individual basis, making money for a private company. The company is being paid based on that person's occupation of a bed in that facility. In New Mexico, that's the case. And like I said, I can't speak to the facilities where those people are held, but that is the case here in New Mexico. Okay. Well, Bella, we only have several minutes left of the show. Can you tell us what can we do to support our immigrant neighbors? Yeah. First, I think this information, the knowing your rights, what can you do if you encounter ICE, that's really important. That strengthens our communities, and we can protect each other that way. I also think it's less relevant at this particular moment because our legislative session has just ended, but it's always relevant to reach out to your legislators, state and federal, and let them know what you think. Let them know what you believe in, and let them know what is important to New Mexicans and the values that we hold and how we want to treat people who are in our state, regardless of their citizenship status. And the other thing is, yeah, sharing this information widely, and there's also always opportunities to volunteer with nonprofits providing services to immigrants. And I think it can take a bit to find where you fit into those movements, but reaching out to local organizations that are providing services is a really good way to get involved and lend your skills and your resource to organizations that need it. Very good advice. The question was, can we advocate at the county level to end these agreements that the counties are entering with these private detentions? Yeah, so there are three facilities. I mentioned there are three facilities, one in Cibola County, which is in northern New Mexico. That's in Milan, New Mexico, kind of outside of Grant. Cibola County, Torrance County, which is, that facility is in Estancia, New Mexico, kind of in eastern New Mexico, and then one in Otero County outside of Chaparral, New Mexico. So all of those facilities are operated by those intergovernmental service agreements that I mentioned, and so that is a place where you can reach out to your state legislators. They have, and there is legislation that's been proposed and that will continue to be proposed until it passes to end those contracts and to prohibit detention of immigrants in New Mexico. And then the other thing is to make your voice heard at the county commission meeting to raise your voice in support of alternatives to carceral economies. But I think the other thing that's important is there is a really strong infrastructure of civil society organizations, nonprofits, that are providing that advocacy, that are doing that advocacy, and that really have a framework for supporting the movement. And so that's part of why I say, like, getting in touch with organizations that are doing this work. The New Mexico Immigrant Law Center, the New Mexico Dream Team, Las Americas Immigrant Advocacy Center, there's a huge number of organizations in New Mexico that provide services and that are part of advocating for ending immigration detention in New Mexico. And so plugging yourself in there and into that infrastructure is really useful. Good advice. Yeah. Very good advice. We have about three minutes left. Bella, do you have any final thoughts? And thank you for the work that you do. It's super important, and thank you for coming on the show. But do you have any final thoughts? Or Kit? Yeah, I've been thinking a lot recently about, like, why is it important that we take care of people whose lives are different from our own? Why do we care about, why is it important to stand up for our immigrant neighbors? And the thing that I keep coming back to is that, as individuals and as communities, we are only as safe as, we're only as safe and as protected as the most vulnerable people among us. And I think we've seen that this administration is extending enforcement to people who do have lawful status. And I think that's an indication of what I was saying earlier. If someone can be subjected to deportation, if someone can be detained pending their proceedings without any evidence, without due process, then that can happen to you, even if you aren't an immigrant. And that's why I say, like, we are as safe as our most vulnerable, because no one of us is impervious to enforcement of any kind and to violation of our rights, our civil rights. And that's why we stand up for each other, because we're protecting our collective rights and standing up for what we all deserve and actually are entitled to under our Constitution. Exactly. That was so well put. So we have, like, about a minute left. How did you decide to go into this final work? What inspired you? I think it's kind of a lot of things. Like I mentioned earlier, I have a lot of friends. I do have a lot of friends who have been through various immigration processes and they're important people to me personally. And then also I watch them really have to navigate the system, the immigration system that's so complicated and not set up for people to succeed at all, that just put barrier after barrier. And then also I grew up in Silver City and really around the infrastructure of border enforcement. And I think even as a kid, I think it was so clear to me that it's not, that it's like a bad thing, that it's kind of offensive. And so I think as I was planning or thinking about how I wanted to spend my professional energy working in immigration felt really appropriate. And then I visited a detention center for the first time in a little over two years now. And I was immediately really impressed in a bad way by the harm. And yeah, exactly. And I could see like, oh, this is where I want to be working. That's beautiful. I mean, I'm so glad that you decided to go into that line of work and for being an advocate for immigrant neighbors. And thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your expertise. And that's all the time that we have for today. So thank you, Bella. Thank you very much, Bella. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me.