Ep 7 Female Friendships

The hosts discuss their experiences with female friendships. They talk about how their friendships have evolved over the years, from convent school to college and work. They also discuss the stereotypes and competition among women, as well as the importance of female camaraderie and support. They highlight the deeper and more personal nature of female friendships, as well as the benefits of having women in their corner. They emphasize the need for women to be less judgmental and more supportive of each other. hello and welcome to our podcast coffee plus different I'm your host Varnika and with me is my friend and colleague Sanjana and today we are talking about female friendships so Sanjana what has been your female friendships like? that's a very heavy question Varnika. Do you have any female friends apart from me? currently yes and actually I'm at a place in my life where I have the maximum number of female friendships it's actually very weird in a sense. Tell me more are they in double digits? no definitely not I don't think I have that many friends to have female friendships in double digits I'm 27 you know I don't think I'm supposed to have more than 5 friends. Am I in the 5? definitely I feel so privileged yes my friendship is a privilege but anyway I think with regard to female friendship I was in a convent school all my life so most of my friendships while I was growing up till I was 18 it was all female friendships what really changed is when I went to college unfortunately I went to an engineering college in India basically bunch of guys and then as an engineer of course in the STEM field even at the place of work the first three three and a half years it was basically men to a point that Varnika when I joined a current place right first thing I noticed is wow there's so many women will I get along? really? yes because I was just so used to having men around me all the time and I had somehow accustomed I had become accustomed to like working with them like getting my way with them oh it must be very odd for you to not get your way with them here I don't know about that but yes like I had this reason I could be little no I'm joking no it's not about a joke you're right actually Varnika that I had you know sort of a way of getting my work done or you know the way that you interact with your male colleagues is very different from the one from a way that you interact with your female colleagues definitely and also it's very different when you are interacting with them at the start of your career yes and you have slightly more of a pandering attitude and I never had female bosses like I had colleagues female colleagues senior to me but I never had a female boss and I was actually excited about that because I was like you know how in my previous work organization you know the guys could just ask out the boss for the beer or like you know like a cup of coffee or whatever because you know the boys club so to speak and I was like maybe even I can have that kind of friendly relationship with my manager now but the one manager you are actually getting friendly with now is again a man yeah and I think I really see I really hope with all my life that it's just it's not a man and a woman thing it is not a man and a woman thing but it does you know beg a conversation because like I said when I came over here it did weird me out I was like okay how do I interact with so many women and I was from the time I went to engineering college and I don't know if you can sort of you know agree with me over here I don't know why I felt more judged by women than by men not that men didn't judge me men flood shamed me left right and center but what bothered me is when women did the same to me I held them at a higher standard no I felt the same in college I used to say that just because there are so few girls in my engineering college so I used to think that maybe I'm not finding my kind of friends just because I have such a small set to choose from and amongst the boys you could never in at least in my college I felt this way you could never be friends with just one boy there was always a bunch of them a huge group with that could absorb you one token female friend and then you would have to be with a cool girl and tandoor to all of them oh and then you have to be like what exactly to be one of the cool girls who is like totally having beer with the boys and like not nagging them all the time or you know doesn't get too weirded out at their innuendos and their in general disgust and unhygienic ways yes all of that all of that and then maybe another one or two of the girlfriends could be absorbed they would just be plus ones but as a female friend you couldn't just have a boy and a girlfriend because of course there'd be like oh there must be something more yeah also Vanika I think a lot of women I've heard women say this no I don't want girlfriends you know there's too much drama yeah like what are you not a woman like no I'm different I'm not drama oh my god flashback to our cool girl episode yes like congratulations for not being a typical girl and basically shaming every other girl but boys are also so much drama in fact sometimes there are a lot more drama because in our society they grow up a lot more emotionally repressed so they end up being kind of manipulative all people are drama my point is that women use that excuse that oh I don't want drama so I'm just friends with boys is because they think they will look cooler they'll be cooler if they're just friends with boys but they can't very open no no even me as a person I can't say that oh I'm just friends with boys because it's just so much more cooler that means most girls are placing boys on a higher pedestal and friendships between boys and with boys on a pedestal in fact I have heard this in college myself that you know boys friendship between boys is not so toxic like it is between girls there is not so much competition yeah like what if there is any competition between any friendship it's not a friendship yeah whether it's with a boy or a girl like if you feel competitive with your friend it's not a friendship I'm saying but that competitive feeling comes from the society not from girls themselves for example I'm so sorry to interrupt you but remember that comment or that dialogue in Kabir Singh I still remember this dialogue it says so basically Shahid Kapoor comes and he says and he says with regards to the protagonist of the movie Preeti that you know she has a chubby so he looks at this chubby girl and he's like you should be friends with Preeti because like the combination of a chubby fat girl and like a pretty hot girl is like a great friendship because in that way there is no obvious competition right and the competition you think about it the competition is who's prettier more beautiful who's getting your attention why why because that's how women are raised no so f**k are we chicken dude we are raised with this mentality of having of being you know always comparative with other women even at workplace right we discuss this that you know when women get at the top get at the top why do they feel that they are the only ones who need to be there why can't they be more supportive no so this competition does it come from the fact that men will give attention to just one woman or are they all fighting for one man they're all fighting for one man I think both the points are valid no you want to feel special like I'm that one girl who's getting the attention from all the guys but why all the guys man or one guy whatever it doesn't matter I remember this girl in college and she only exclusively had guy friends and one time you know she there was a trip and she called me she said you want to come for it and I'm like okay cool and she says that yeah can you please because like my mom won't let me go with only guys so I need like one girl to come I'm like am I a token female acquaintance or whatever that you know you're going to drag me to something like this I found it preposterous that instead of actually trying to be friends with me and getting to know me and then you know continuing the conversation she just said it blurted that you're my insinuating that I'm the token female friend because her parents will feel more comfortable I was flabbergasted and I'm not saying I'm not blaming her because at one point in college exclusively not in college but after college exclusively had male friendships and when did I kid you not I missed my female friendships you did it's only when you lose all your female friendships you realize how much you value them like women are so much more vulnerable and in touch with their emotions and I also feel that conversations with women are often more nuanced even with women you might not like that much Vandakanti all I know is that when I joined this current piece of work I did not have any female friendships maybe like one or two and I remember texting my then boyfriend like when I met you I'm like I think I found my next girlfriend like I just get that vibe from her like and I felt that because you were so approachable you had this lovely smile and I knew that you would not be that typical judgmental type but I don't think I give everybody that vibe no it's not about the vibe it's not about this but I liked you enough to give you that vibe no my point is that I was yearning for a female friendship oh and you know in some ways I think I was yearning to kind of defend somebody and get offended on behalf of somebody because I was so pissed when you told me that our boss pointed out your neckline I was so pissed I wouldn't have gone and fought with her but I wanted to tell you that this is bullshit and how dare they and so the thing is we became friends because you were nice and kind enough to you know introduce yourself to me on the first day I did yeah you just talked to me like spent five minutes talking to you about my interests apart from work yes which is why we became friends we both love to read they're big readers and why can't everyone be like that like why do women need to feel competitive like be nice to each other like I'm sure most of our listeners will have female friendships because I think Gen Z is so much more involved these days yeah but I don't know like you know I don't know to all my listeners like do you not love the female camaraderie like isn't it amazing like I even the simple fact when you're with your girls and you're doing your eyeliners for each other or dressing up it is funny it is and it is not stereotyping someone's femininity it's just it's fun I like doing that and I would want my friends with me and I don't think senior friendships are a lot more I think what you mean when you say vulnerable is they're a lot more personal definitely and they're a lot more deep yes and women are better listeners and women often don't have surface level conversations yes I think you know they want to get into it like you know yeah right and that's why I think it makes lovely conversations tell me about your some of your favorite favorite female friendships from popular culture books cinema tv shows Christina and Meredith from Grey's Anatomy for sure yeah I think if you have a friend who supports you like that whether male or female it's amazing and both of them are super competitive as colleagues yes which is like cherry on top and still they are amazing friends and they don't need to feel they don't even need to be competitive with each other right they have their own unique individual personalities and when you secure that way why would you feel the need to be competitive with anyone else yeah and I think similarly with let's say uh VD Marvelous Mrs. Nasal, Midge and Susie yeah just side note I love the finale only for this one scene where Susie tells um Midge tits up when Midge is about to do something you know breaking the rules basically yeah I'm like man like you know you need someone in your corner like that like you just need it which brings me to one of my favorite things to talk about not just female friendships female relationships this might get a bit extreme but female relationships are systematically broken down by society I think one of the most fundamental female relationships is that of mother and daughter and our society so actively tries to separate them in this patriarchal culture where you know beti paraya dhan obviously we are not growing up in that culture where it's like that but still to a huge extent we see mothers and daughters don't they have a fraught relationship they have a great relationship also like I have a fantastic relationship with my mom and I think so ever since I saw Mrs. Marvelous Mrs. Nasal me and my mom go tits up to each other and I feel that I have become a better person more confident in some ways so has my mom ever since I've grown up and both of us are now friends in a different way so I don't know even within families female friendships are not really encouraged I get you why are boys mama's boys and girls daddy's girls why I am a full-on mama's girl and you know I think I'm whenever you tell me a story I'm like wow that's such an outlier because I've experienced in my family like I'm like supposed to be my daddy's girl my brother's supposed to be like mama's boy like my mom just loves him so much will defend him against everything and I'm like some idiot but he doesn't need to tell me a story and I'm always really jealous of that jealous in the sense envious that I wish that you know my mom was like that right like it was never encouraged in my like you know again the stereotype like you're playing with the stereotype that my dad is gonna be on my side mom's gonna be and then you know later on typically in Indian households the saas bahu relationship is like the most fraught relationship of this society and there are so many jokes made about that like you know the Dallas jokes honestly yeah like this uncle whatsapp forwards bro like you know random like they're trying to even like millennial um influencers make these jokes uh instigating like you know the mother-in-law the daughter-in-law don't get together don't get along together right like why do you need to instigate that why can't that be a outlier no not outlier why can't that be a great relationship yeah you won't like the same person or try to no but I think I read this somewhere right the reason that that happens in India is because when older generations and women were married they never got their husbands to themselves because they had to live in a joint family so they make their children their world especially their sons and you know when the son gets married like no that could be a part of it but where does this intense amount of expectations of the mother-in-law from the daughter-in-law come from I just don't get it we will find out later mother so Vandika what about your female friendships so how would you compare them to your male friendships like did you ever feel like unconsciously subconsciously you ever had a preference yes I always liked female friendships more for a brief period of time in college I thought that boys are better friends but I think it's just because I found a few more boys with a similar sort of interest mindset we became friends because of some common objective like clubs or something but apart from that I have been drawn towards female friendships more definitely more perhaps I'm the kind of person who people open up to sometimes even if they're nasty to me in public which used to happen in college quite often even if some of my friends were not really friends with me in public but in hostel we used to have a whole different vibe a whole different ambience and I could be some people's safe space and I like being that person I like being the safe space for my other friends female friends but at the same time I never felt very close close enough that I can share my things with other female friends at least not in college and school me though you know largely periods of time I also went to a convent all girls school I had female friends but never really like you know someone I can discuss deep philosophical things with until very recently when I became friends with Kriti who I've told you about and you with the two of you I've discussed very deep things very smart things philosophy and myself my personality what I feel about things and I felt that it's very important to have these conversations with your friends because it helps you understand yourself so much more definitely I think the essence of friendship is when you you know have those different conversations and you can learn more about yourself yeah it's like I'm talking to when you're talking to a close friend it's like you're talking into a diary but also a diary which understands responds nods yeah and then you know kind of validates your point and makes you laugh so I totally get that and I inherently I feel that I can perhaps not have that with a boy maybe I can I mean to some extent sometimes I feel very close to and I can have very deep conversations for example with my brother but not in the way I can have with say you or my mom and the only difference I can think about is that both of you are women and I have such so many of my opinions strong opinions are centered around feminism sometimes it's just easier to talk to women and especially usually in my experience men just rule their eyes when you talk about feminism yeah women are also a little bit more adjusting and accepting to taking in your ideas even if they don't agree with it I've had such a different experience you know I feel like I've been so harshly judged by a lot of women and I had never understood why I used to just think that maybe I'm just very tall and maybe I come across as intimidating so people just don't you know take to me very well and you know and actually three of my bestest friends are boys but one look at the same time I think the conversations that I can have with you the amount I can cry with you the amount I can feel at like I can pour down my heart not like I can't pour my heart to my other like guy friends but I know you listen and you will be you have slightly more empathy slightly more empathetic approach towards my problems yeah because my best friends will be like you know I think you're just overthinking and you know this and that because they cannot relate to my experience as a woman yeah so it remains surface level with them yeah and it can be fun yeah even though they I know they love me they care about me but they can only help me from where they're at and that's why I really value female friendships and not just female friendships Varmika I think female companionship as a woman in a workplace having a woman as your supporter someone who just you know stands by you I think it's so important I've realized that after being friends with you thanks thank you but it just it helps you know it really helps you see things it helps you understand where things are going wrong it helps you question the society the way it is especially in India right now where inherent sexism patriarchy still runs a while so you need that support you need people in your corner you need women in your corner and when I say you need women in your corner you also have to be in other women's corner you can't just expect people to be in your corner you have to be approachable you have to be nice you have to be less judgmental I think it's a two-way street sometimes when people expect you to be in their corner but they are not in yours I think they just want empty platitudes they don't really want yeah that deep connection exactly and at the same time I think we as women need to be less judgmental about other women we need to be more empathetic for example in our own office how many women judge other people's dressing sense like lots yes why why do people women feel the need to do that less judgmental more supportive yay for female friendship and yay to both of us I'm so glad I met you yay also when you're good friends sometimes I realize you can be a lot more productive together like we are we are productive in office we find solutions to problems and we're recording this podcast yay to that yay and with that we are at the end of the podcast and let the what do you say Varnika may the rage be ever with you may the rage be ever with you bye bye