Geeks Word Episode 1 - Discover Season 5 (Eps 1-4)

A group of hosts discuss their opinions on Star Trek Discovery and the character of Burnham. They have differing opinions on the show and its direction. They feel that Burnham is too central to the series and that the crew is not developed enough. They also discuss the role of producers in the show and question the decisions made by the creators. They have mixed feelings about the reboot films and express their love for other Star Trek series. Overall, they enjoy Star Trek Discovery but have some criticisms. Hello and welcome to Geeksword, a new audio podcast where we'll be talking about Star Trek Discovery and other geeky things. I am one of the hosts, Colin. And I'm Elon, I'm Reece. Hello, and I'm Simon. And we have each very differing opinions on Star Trek and pretty much every other type of sci-fi that we watch. Well, we all have a different favourite series, I can say that. That is true, and we sometimes agree, we sometimes disagree. And we've thought that the world at large might be interested in hearing those questions. So today we're going to be starting with a brief catch-up on our thoughts on Star Trek Discovery Season 5 thus far. And possibly a bit more in-depth talk about Episode 4, if we have time. Because when we get going on those first three episodes, we have a habit of not stopping about those first three episodes. There's a lot of strong opinions flowing around. 22 producers! Why do they need 22 producers? I feel that's fairly standard these days, though, right? Yeah, some people will be like, this is the X to the X's producer's brother or something, we threw him a credit. It feels like Discovery's been run by a committee now. I mean, but producers don't necessarily have a say in what's happening. They might have some say, but often they're the ones that are throwing money at the project, right? Or sponsoring it in some way. I know. And I get that when you're throwing money at something, you want to think or feel that you've got a say in what's happening. But at the end of the day, it's going to be the writers and the directors that are putting in a lot of what goes into the show. Or at least that's my understanding. I could be wrong. So a bit of background for me. I grew up with Star Trek. I grew up with Kirk, I grew up with Picard, The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager. I love everything about Star Trek. I even laugh at, you know, Star Trek 5. I can appreciate it, even though it's like, wow. I can appreciate it. We don't talk about Star Trek magic. I even like Enterprise. Everything's perfect. There's episodes that I don't like. Enterprise is one of those series that I do need to re-watch as an adult. I, too, grew up on Star Trek, but I started with Next Generation. And the original series films. So I had an appreciation for the original series, but I didn't watch the original series until I was an adult. I even like the reboot films. I do, too. Largely. No, the reason why I like the reboot films is, you know my partner? She's not big into Star Trek, but she likes those films. I think they actually did help bring other people in. But does she like other Star Trek now? After she's watched those three films, does she like any other Star Trek? That's the thing. If you say they brought people into the franchise, but then people who watch them don't like any of the rest of the franchise, then it's not true. Yeah, because those are just kind of mostly fun action movies. I genuinely think the second movie is terrible. Like, really bad con. As much as I like Benedict Cumberbatch, that's a bad con. They should have made a con. They should have just had him as the end of a bad guy. A new bad guy. Yeah. But they aren't really proper Star Trek. They're not about any interesting concept or anything. All I'm saying is, I do appreciate all of Star Trek. Yes, I like them as movies. I actually think Star Trek Beyond is more Star Trek than the other three. I feel like they were getting into a better direction. And then they started to fail by not making any more. I think they had a good thing going. But yes, today we're here to talk about Discovery. And season five, the last season of... Why didn't they cut five seasons to begin with? I mean... I mean, who's giving them money? I mean, let's be fair. Who is this season for? Who is it for? It's not for Star Trek fans. I am enjoying it, though, so far. Like, I... I feel Star Trek Discovery got off to a rough start. And has started to get better with each season. But I do feel that the character of Burnham was a poor choice to base the series around. Yes, it was. I think she's a good actress. Sidney Quirrell, I think her name is. I'm still struggling with the new actors and actresses' names. The actors are good. I like her. I like the actors. You know, I like them all. Like, there's a version of... Nothing to green. Can you come off to green? There's a version of the Burnham character, right, that isn't the focus of the show, that is a good... Because what you would do with a character like that is you would show how, like... If you take the first season, where she's like a traitor or whatever and does a terrible thing, you would show how she is not, like, thinking in a Federation way and ideally you would have her, over the course of many seasons or whatever, learn how to be a Federation officer. Which is not the approach they took. Yeah, they've had characters like that in the past and sometimes they, like, change. Like, who was it in Next Generation? Why can't I remember her name? The Marquee Lady. No, no, no. Yeah, Rowan. Yeah. Are you going for that? Come on. I have a really bad memory for names. I'm sorry, but it's true. Like, people I know in real life just... There was somebody I met for, like, three months in a row and I could not get their first name right until my wife goes, just think about Luke Skywalker. I'm like, oh yeah, the name's Luke. Sorry, Luke, if you're listening to this. But, yes, so I apologise if I don't get names very well during this series. I'll do my best, but I'll probably learn as we go along. But yes, Rowan. Like, her arc was a really good one. It was wasted. Like, they should have, I think, followed that up more in the series. They did come back to it, I think, in Picard Season 3, didn't they? Yeah. I have, as I said, my memory's terrible. Do you know what? Rob Larrum was the main character in Deep Space Nine. Yeah, yeah. But the actors turned it down, so they created Kira instead. Yeah, and Kira was a great character. Yeah, fantastic. The thing, though, that annoys me so much. Like, Deep Space Nine, you've got so many great characters, and they all have their own episodes and limelight. But Discovery, you've got nothing. It's Michael Berlin's personal transport ship. The main character's on the bridge. You've got Mr. No Response, which all he ever says is no response, and he doesn't do anything else. I don't even know who they are. It is weird, right? Because every other Star Trek show, the captain has some degree of focus, but it is an ensemble piece, right? But from the get-go, it was like, no, Burnham's the main character, which I just think is a weird choice to make. And in fairness to them, they did advertise it as Star Trek. They said, this is going to be a different Star Trek series. It's going to be more focused on an individual character. There's a difference between having something from her point of view to just Burnham doing every single thing herself all the time. To bring us to Season 4, there is a real emphasis on that. It is like Burnham does everything. She's going on all the away missions. She's doing everything. There's even that scene in there from Episode 4, where she said, I'm going to fly the shuttle, because I don't trust anyone else to do it. And the crew's just like, OK. There's lots of episodes. No, I think you mean Season 4, right? Season 4. All the time, all the time. But it's not only is it bad for a show, because it is the Michael Burnham show. It's also bad as a captain, because if you do everything and your crew aren't learning, it's just kind of crazy to me that you have this captain who doesn't want to develop her crew. It's like, no, I'm just going to do it. I'm not going to give you guys a chance to express yourselves and be good. I'm just going to do everything. I can't say it's so startling yet. It is technically a military-type organisation, right? It's not a military. But it is kind of... It is organised in a military. Her entire crew just seem to fraternise, spend all the time in the bar drinking, and drinking, and fraternising, and drinking. I mean, let's be fair. Let's head forward on the Enterprise deal. That's not noon. They just have a fancier bar now. But they don't seem to do anything. Every episode, they're just drinking. Well, that was a bit out of line, but... She has permission to speak freely. They just go to insult him, and he's like, I didn't give you permission to speak freely. I don't care. That is somewhat addressed, though, right? He brings that up with the captain, and he does state that he feels the crew is too lax, and that they're lacking discipline. Definitely too lax. And that's the whole point of episode four, right? They have that argument, and at the end of it, they realise... No, no, no, no, no. But there are limits, right? Like, if you look at... Look at Voyager. Voyager is my favourite Star Trek show. Mine too. And there is a familiarity that is created on that show, because they're trapped in deep space together, right? They have no choice. But there's always a distance that Janeway keeps between herself and her crew, because she recognises that. And it's the same with Captain Picard. It's the same with all the good captains. The captain always keeps a distance between themselves and their crew, which Burnham doesn't. And it's strange. I think that's probably a symptom of the way that she reached captainhood. Like, the fact that... Until she even got to the future, she didn't even see the possibility of becoming a captain, right? Well, yes, but she shouldn't have ever become one. She shouldn't. I agree. So I think that she basically was always gung-ho, because she was like, well, there's no risk. Like, she's already spent, what, seven, eight years in prison by that point? And she's just like, I'm just going to do the things I think is right. Even if she has too much respect for the command to believe she could ever fit... You know, though, she... Like in the previous season, she disregards direct orders. She goes up against them. She, like, does everything. And what does she get? Promoted. The other guy in this season, he does exactly what he's told. And they even tell him they can shoot to kill. He does exactly what he's told, and he gets demoted and thrown out. There was something going on around that, to be fair. But here's the thing, though, right? In Starfleet, you can do the right thing, and Admirals are like, you did the right thing, but also, I now wouldn't have to punish you because you broke orders. Like, that is a thing in Starfleet that can exist. It happened to a lot of people, right? Where it's like, I appreciate what you did, I personally think what you did was the right thing, but now I'm going to have to punish you for it because you disobeyed orders. But that is not what happened. Yeah, exactly. But that is a thing that I think is a fundamental part of it, right? It's because they are... There is this strict code of conduct, and so, even if you do the right thing, you can still be punished for it, which is just a thing all officers know going in. I want to just say something, right? It's kind of out of order, but you know when she's fighting herself? Yeah. She does a nerve pinch. So she knows how to take people out without violence, but all the other times she's doing that, she even sneaks up on people, and she just tries to kill them. She doesn't just knock them out, she tries to kill them. Yeah. I think the show is... Especially her captain is overly aggressive, is how I would describe it. Let's also be fair, if she tried to kill herself, that would be monumentally stupid. Oh, yeah, of course. But I feel like, you know, violence should be a last resort of the Federation officer, but Burnham seems to turn to it constantly. You know what I mean? Like, I don't remember a single time where Burnham parks someone down. You know the classic captain speech, right? Where the captain will take someone who's an enemy, and just talk to them a bunch so that they become nice or whatever? I don't remember Burnham ever doing that. I thought there was more of that last season. Like, even though last season still suffered from, and every season of Discovery has suffered from, we need to fix a thing, or everything dies. The amount of times every season of Discovery was, the universe is in danger. It's like last season was, if we don't stop this mystery, then everything we know dies. And this season says, if we don't stop this technology, everything we know dies. It's every season. How about this technology? Let me finish my thought on season four first. Like, this season four, it was at least, they progressed in a more, I think, I feel, a more Starfleet-style fashion. Like, there was an investigation. They were trying to make peace and communicate with this unknown entity. And everything that was happening with Book was stupid and dumb. That should not happen. But I feel the route they took as a crew on Discovery was more in line with what we're used to with Star Trek, even if, I feel, the last episode of that season let it down. Sorry, I was just saying, this season with the technology, the technology progresses. I mean, I want to do episode by episode. So, these two people, they sell the technology to the highest bidder so she sees a future where the Federation is destroyed. Yeah? Yeah. If they're selling it to the highest bidder, couldn't the Federation just buy it off them? Well, maybe they weren't the highest bidder. The Federation don't have currency. What are you going to do? No, no, no, no. Last season, dilithium was the rarest substance. Everyone traded in dilithium because that was super rare. That's true. And what did the Federation do? Just give it all away now? So now dilithium is no longer, it's worthless? I mean, I could believe that the Federation, to be honest. And now they're trading back with lightening? Yeah. I mean, you're telling me the Federation of all those member worlds couldn't just buy it off of them? Let's be fair, we're assuming that it was sold to the highest bidder. Like, they didn't confirm that in those time hopping, right? Let's be fair, they just said the Breen got a hold of the technology. They could have stolen it. They could have stolen it. There's also theories that the Breen dude is a Breen without his helmet on. Well, that's a good theory because no one knows what they look like. Exactly. And, so it's possible that he just gave it to his people. They're saying, like, no more running, no more hiding from things. It's possible that they're running because he did something to Breen society that has made them an outcast. And so he gives it to them as a way of I'm free now. Like, people thought. I don't know. It would be weird though if the big Breen reveal was just another alien dude with a weird face. Like, you know, I was hoping it would be something a bit more interesting. But that pulls into the whole progenitor thing, right? Like, they see the galaxy with all of these humanoids and the Breen would have been one of those races, right? Because they're bipedal, they've got arms, legs, and a head. Well, yeah, but at that point it needs to be who the Breen are. It needs to be... Unless they are progenitors or there's something else, right? Then I need... I would like that to be more... Otherwise, why the hell were they wearing masks the whole time and never telling them who they are? If they're just dudes who can walk around without their masks on... I think that it's meant to be like an air of mystery, like Mandalorian type thing. Like, this is the way. I get that. But then, why? I don't know. I imagine to start with they're like, this looks cool and it saves us money. Okay. That's probably how I started. Why don't we start with episode one and let's go through a little... Sure. Let's just say what we think of each episode. In episode one, we start with Michael Burnham on a ship at warp. Ah, the Red Dragon. The whole desert stuff. Yeah. But that... I mean, it was ridiculous, but I feel like theoretically it's highly possible. Do you want to know my problem with that scene, right? And all the scenes in this episode, and in fact, the entire season, is not that I liked it, not that I hated it, I was just bored the whole time. Like, she was riding on the back of that ship, I was like, sure, whatever. We know she's going to survive through at least the last episode. But also, like, racing across the desert on like, speeder bikes, like the Star Wars, all that stuff was just not interesting. I mean, there's all this dirt and debris everywhere, they're just talking to each other. Yeah, that's tech. Yeah, that's tech. But here's the thing, right? They have these comm badges that can teleport them anywhere. Why are they riding bikes at all? Yeah. If you just keep tapping that badge, you're going to go way faster than a bike. Why couldn't Discovery just shoot the ship? What was the reason they couldn't shoot the ship? I think they were trying to hide the fact that they were there. Like, some sort of crime and so they shot a mountain instead. Yeah, they shot a mountain instead. I mean, that was Discovery that shot the mountain, to be fair, that was the other ship. But then the other ship could have shot the ship! Yes. Yes. I'll just tell you. Yeah, it was all a lot of rubbish. It's, the only thing I can think of, just, like, you tell me, maybe it's just because it doesn't feel very Star Trek for me, all these like, action things they're doing, or maybe it's just because it's all a bit, like, meaningless and soulless. Maybe it's just because I don't like the show, I don't know. But I just sat there bored, being like, objectively, I guess this should be exciting, but it's not! I was just completely unenthusiastic. What I found ridiculous about that first episode, like, I didn't mind it, but it did feel very much like being action for the sake of action because it was the first episode of the season. Yeah. What I found stupid was the requirement to crash the ships to stop the weather. Yes, to land. Yeah, land, or just, like, hopper and extend the shields. Yeah, I don't know. It was so weird that they had to crash the heads first. I'm really angry that they crashed that as well. It would be one thing if they weren't designed to land on planets, I'd be like, fair enough, there's no control. But Discovery is designed to land on planets. One of its major design components is landing on planets. And yet, and yet, for some reason, it's so weird. I think they tried to explain it in that we have to angle the ships in a particular manner for this particular thing to work. But, like, there's technobabble and then there's, like, excuse my language, bullshit. Oh, technobullshit. Yeah, it's like, no, you didn't need to do that at all. It's just like, oh, I don't know, use those massive phasers you've got and dig a trench so that it'll fall down. It was very weird. I really don't understand why they couldn't just hover in front of it, like you said. Yeah, yeah, it was bizarre. That's what I thought they were going to do, right? I thought they were going to go down there and extend the ship like they've done so many times. And also, don't, don't, don't, don't use tractor beams anymore. No, no, they don't exist. They don't exist now. No, they're all grapplers now. Also, they just teleport everywhere now. Teleport here, teleport there. And they even teleport in the ship into other rooms instead of walking into them. I don't like the general ship designs from this game. And how do they control it? How do they control these personal teleporters? Like, there's that one where she's flying through space towards the ship's bridge and then she just immediately appears and runs into her chair. How does she control it? I don't know. But there's a great moment, right, from, I think it's episode three. You know when they're like, there's a monster on Trill and they're like, oh, it's desert-y, right? Yes. Right, so at one point, they're like, combadging all over to teleport away from it, right? And then I get it, there's one point where they're in a rock where there's a fish and it's like, oh, the rock's blocking the signal. We're going to have to run for it, right? So they come out from the rock and like, start hobbling because Book is injured and I'm like, oh, we're going to have to fight. In fact, that fight went on for as long as it did. It felt very much like filler by the end of it. Also, I love the notion, right, that being attacked by what is essentially a dinosaur is a way of proving if you're federation enough by like, do you try and negotiate with the dinosaur? Like, no, I'm going to run away from it. I'm not going to like, come on. Like, the fact that they had Book there, I don't want him to be there. But the fact that they had their asshole was the only reason they passed that test. Like, the level of like, Deus Ex Machina type bullshit, like the plot, like forcing this particular scenario. If it had been anybody else, oh wow, you had to attack the creature to save yourself. You're clearly not federation. I'm sorry, what? You want bullshit? A book with a drawing of a planet and two moons. And Michael Brennan knows exactly where it is. I thought, I thought I'd missed something, you know. Like, I actually went back in the episode and played it back again thinking, have I missed like a connection in logic that explains why she knows where this is? But no. I thought it was going to be a callback to like a previous episode or something. Like, oh, it's the planet where we saw the future vision where Pike got all futurized and I thought, cool, that's exactly the motherfucker. And it's the fact that how she leveraged the glasses dude into filling her in what was going on. Right. And how easily he changed on that as well. Well, here's the thing though, right, before you get into who he is, like, what federation captain, right, holds back information that could save the whole universe just because they want to go on the mission? Yeah. Brennan's like, no, Michael Brennan, the savior of the universe. That right there would make me kick her out of the federation and be like, what are you doing? No, you're not captain anymore, leave. And see, if I was like the dude giving the red directives, like, my logic would have been like, okay, well, if we can't figure it out and it's going to take us like 150 years or whatever or algorithms to figure this out, great, because the people, other people looking into this are like, yes, we've got to follow this to the logical conclusion. Why? Destroy the map! Could you imagine Picard or Jaime getting an admiral go up to them and say, red directive, set phases to kill to anyone on board? It does fall very on federation. That guy with the glasses has got to be some kind of evil character. I think he's part of my, one of my least favorite Star Trek things, probably like a future Section 31. Yeah, I mean, smartly. Ah, future, well, yeah, probably. He also just wears a suit. Everybody else has future clothes and is like, nah, I've got a suit. Okay, back to Episode 1. Back to Episode 1. Yeah, and then we have, so, anyway, so, the data or not data character just appears out of nowhere. The synth, as they call him. I think he was in that first episode. I think he's absolutely wasted. Yeah, absolutely wasted character, unless they bring him back somehow later in the season. Yeah, he was quite good. It's something that Discovery does that I find annoying and not endearing, is they use, like, Easter eggs and references to things that they do constantly. They do it more than Lower Decks, but Lower Decks does it in a way that's good. You know, it, he reminded me of that Pogo data card song when I saw him. Oh. It looked just like him. Yeah, it was a good character. I liked him. It's just a shame that he died in Silver. Yeah, it's, hopefully, like, the problem is we're not going to get any more, probably not going to get any more Star Trek in this era, although Academy might be. Academy is supposed to be sexy. It was originally supposed to have the silly character in it as well. So, get rid of the whole timeline. It would be cool to see other androids played by the same actor in that era. Because, I mean, even if they, you'd have that stuff set up as a card, but he was made in that sort of era, right? Like, he was a post data kind of android, but not that late, much later. I think they said he was 800 years old. So, you'd have to do a little bit of it. Yeah, but how, didn't they also say that, like, he was many generations past, and they would place his initials on it as, like, a throwback. Kind of like, oh, we respected the original creator, kind of thing. I don't think it was supposed to be, like, soon after Picard. No, I think about 100 years after Picard. Yeah, something like that. Because Picard's getting on to, what, like, it's not that long after Tinchy, actually. It's, what, 30 years, maybe even in the 60s, even though, like, I know Patrick Stewart's playing... Really? Yeah, because I think Patrick Stewart plays an older, like, he's younger than his characters. Well, that I figured, but... Oh. I never thought he was 60s. Because he's, like, 90, 59 years old. What? When he first, in the first episode of Star Trek Next Generation. So, by the end of it, he's, he's in his 70s. Okay. So, 90 more years old than the first episode of Picard's. I absolutely reject that notion entirely. I've got a list of, like, I wrote down a little list of things that annoyed me about the first episode. Okay, you're way more prepared than we are. Yes. Okay, so, okay, are you ready for my list? You can start writing notes if we're going to make this a good podcast. Yes. Alright, so, alright, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, 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