podcast_affirmative_action_final_July212023

Affirmative Action was introduced to address racial inequality in the workplace. It aimed to ensure that companies hired a certain percentage of minority workers. This policy was met with resistance from some white Americans who felt it took opportunities away from them. The legislation was part of the broader Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s, which sought to end segregation and discrimination against African Americans. Affirmative Action was intended to level the playing field and promote diversity. However, it also led to debates about fairness and whether it was necessary or effective. Hi, and welcome to another episode. This is Real English, with real people, talking about real life issues. Glad you're here. This week, we're talking about Affirmative Action. Let's get to it. I've been seeing quite a lot of news recently about Affirmative Action, and I was talking with one of my students, and they were asking, from their perspective, they're getting news from their country, and it's outside of America, and the perspective from their country is that Americans have lost their minds, and they're really, they don't understand why. People outside of America don't really understand what Affirmative Action is, and even as me, as a Canadian, I've heard stuff, and I have kind of general ideas, but, so I guess what I, just to kind of start, is just to help me out, as a new person to, fairly new person to America, and like, can you give me a little background on Affirmative Action, and then, and like, eventually where we'll go, is like, what's happening right now, and why does it matter, and so on, you know what I mean? What is Affirmative Action? My paraphrasing is that it was a movement to force diversity into the workplace, um, and force is the word that always gets used around me when it comes to that, so I must have some sort of bias, but anyway. Like from your family, your circle, you used it as something that was forced upon you, thrust upon you. Right, as poor whites. You grew up as poor whites, is that what you mean, or? Yeah. Oh, okay. Interesting, I would never consider you to be a poor white, which is really funny. Well, like, I'm thinking back to when my, uh, um, oh, so you're, you're, you, you grew up, you, you considered that you, you grew up as a poor white. Definitely, um, I would say they definitely pulled themselves up by their, by their boob straps, the American definition of working very, very hard to get somewhere. Okay. It's weird because I'm pretty sure my mom got her manager job because of Affirmative Action. She was the manager, she was the first female manager of a grocery store in California. Oh, really? Yeah. The first? Yeah. Is she in a book? No. Why not? She's the first female in California to get a management role in a grocery store? Yeah, um, yeah, I'm trying to think that, um, like Albertsons used to, it's what Albertsons, what Albertsons is now, used to be called Lucky and then Food Basket. Okay. And, um, the, our tax guy, he worked with my mom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At a, at a food basket. Okay. Anyway. So she was the first? Yes. Wow. Yeah, so she faced so much personal anguish and trauma because her co-workers, her male co-workers retaliated and tried to force her out of the job by collecting used feminine products from the bathroom and then depositing those on her desk. So they'd come in early and, like, booby-trap her room with, like, biohazards and they were like, we dare you to say anything because, because they all had a plan, like, they were all doing this on purpose to get the, you know, income. Right. They wrote that all over her desk and that's what they called her and she just had to basically get involved and tell them to shove it up their ass, which is what she did. So, okay, so the, my God, okay, first of all, my God, um, okay, so can you, can you tell me, like, maybe the history teacher is this first? Like, what, what, what, what is affirmative action? Like, like, it sounds like a great time. Like, sounds like a very successful, what, policy or was it a law? We had a civil rights movement in the 1960s. Okay. Um, and that African-American people, um, rightfully demanded Jim Crow be, Jim Crow laws, which are separate but equal. That's why, um, America used to have separate bathrooms and separate drinking fountains and separate restaurants. So everything was segregated? Segregated, yes. Okay, and then who was Jim Crow? It's, uh, um, around the turn of 1900, um, after the Civil War, there was this period of time called Reconstruction where, what are we going to do with all the black people? Because they'd been freed. Yes. Okay. So none of them had jobs. Like, there had to be this massive undertaking to, uh, find jobs and enfranchise these people. Enfranchise? What do you mean enfranchise? Give them the rights of a citizen. Oh, so to get, help the black people get the rights? The inalienable rights of a citizen, which are, um, I just forgot. I know. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Yeah, so that's what it means to really become a citizen, to be able to follow that American... Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Yeah. So, you're allowed to live your life, you're allowed to be free in how you live that life, and you are allowed to pursue whatever makes you happy. Yeah. And the unwritten part is as long as, well, the unsaid part is as long as you're not infringing upon others, which is the issue that America is having. They, we're a country of trying to infringe upon others constantly. So, make sure I, sorry, go ahead, go ahead. So, what that does is we've, we've had this system of trying these programs of separate but equal, people thought they were doing a really progressive good thing and... Well, first, what was separate but equal? What do you... Segregation, so separating black people from white people in, let's say, a theater. Mm-hmm. The idea was that it would be totally cool to keep equal people separate as long as they have the same experience as white people. Mm-hmm. So, keeping separate but giving the equal experience. Yeah. And so, a lot of people thought that was really like pat our, pat ourselves on the back. Sounds a lot like special education. Yeah. Yeah. Separate but equal. Um, plus more. Plus program. Separate but equal. Uh, yeah, that's what I kept saying. You guys are segregating. Wow, I get it. I get, I get that context a bit better. Okay, so, and sorry, Jim Crow, sorry, Jim Crow was... I forget that. Using some politician or something? I'm just going to go with a yes. Okay. I would remember, but I haven't taught in a long time. Yeah, yeah, we can look it up. Um, so, we, the Civil Rights Movement came because separate but equal was obviously not right and not working. Things were not equal. The black, the black experience was nothing like the white experience. And so, then it came about this process of desegregation starting in the late 50s, in the south, you see pictures of black children walking to a school and all this, this mob of white people, this hatred on their faces, just like throwing things, spitting on them. 19... The early, the late 50s until the early 50s. Okay, so we're talking about 80 years ago. Yeah. 80 or 90 years ago. Okay. Huh? I thought 40 years ago. Yeah. That was back when... The year that was 2000. I know 20 years has passed. I know. It's 2023. What? So, desegregation, um, that, once schools were desegregated, you know, moving on to other establishments and trying to suss out the systemic racism. The systemic racism, what does that mean to you? It means that racism is built into the structure of society or the structure of anything. I, like, I would think of systemic racism as being something like, like, uh, uh, providing, uh, service, but, uh, putting it in a, uh, a building that requires you to walk upstairs and, and... Yeah, yeah. Or you've now, just by the construction of that service, which should be publicly available, you've now discriminated against people that can't walk upstairs. Yeah. And so that's systemic. Yeah. Yeah. So America is full of systemic racism towards black people or minorities in general? Yeah, minorities in general. Okay. And then just, just to touch on, like, why, why are people so, like, those images, like, like, why are, is that everybody, every white person in America that times like that, that has this hatred of black people coming, coming into their schools? Naturally, not every single person, but that was... The general opinion? The general opinion was, ranged from hatred to begrudging acceptance. And, like, what was, what was kind of their mindset? Like, why, why would, why were they, what were they angry, so angry about? Uh, why are we being punished? Why would it be a punishment to them to have black kids go to their school? Because they thought that black people were, like, the source of all bad things. Mmm. So, like, the, the, the mindset of that time was, like, like, like, it sounds like in Canada, it was, is, the, in the, the education system, where the Canadian government did residential schools for, um, for Native Indian children. So, residential schools being, the children were removed from their homes, and they, they lived at the school, and then they stayed there, and they were educated there. Today, we have residential treatment. Which means, you leave your home, and you go live somewhere, and get your treatment. So, our, our, there, there's a famous quote, or line, which was that, um, government at that time of Canada, or the school system at that time, wanted to, wanted to, uh, like, basically beat the Indian out of Native kids. Yeah. They wanted to, they wanted to, they wanted to, they wanted to, kids, they wanted to, they wanted to remove all of that stuff that was making them so horrible, and so, I guess, like, savage, and terrible, and they wanted to make them into proper white children, just with different skin color. Because there was really that, that, somehow, this idea at that time, that, that anybody that was not white was flawed, like, dark, evil, dirty, whatever. Yeah. It's just interesting how things have progressed, and lost, how, like, how my mindset is so completely different, and so, how yours is so completely different. Like, it's, it's a foreign way of thinking, but it's actually our parents' generation. And current generation, I guess. So, actually, that's what I wanted to ask, is, like, like, so, were everybody thinking that? Not everybody was thinking that way, but, like, what about today? Is it still widespread, or are there just clusters, certain areas of America that still feel this way? That would be mad that there would be more diversity in the workplaces. Yeah. I think that, compared to 80 years, 60 years ago, um, there are more liberal-minded people who genuinely do support having different people than, working with men in the workplace. So, they no longer have that, um... The generational racism stopped somewhere. And so, now, they are the product of people who were not... A little more tolerant. Yeah, yeah. Didn't have that, that, that, you know, as a coach. Yeah, as a, as a coach. Like, I see that as, like, a belief system, and it's, you know, vitriol, or that, that, that terrible feeling of the thing that's in front of you is just so bad. Like, I think the other day, we were talking about, like, like, smoking came up. You asked me, like, was there anything that you thought, that I felt, about people that, that was, like, an immediate thing? Right. Have you ever met somebody, and just, and just, had this immediate gut feeling of, like, this person is awful. Right. I don't believe anything they say. Yeah, and that, and that's, that's, like, when I gave that example of people who smoke, I mean, it was, it was just that, it took me so long to question my, my own reaction. Why am I, like, it's a human being, like, they have, they, they're smoking, like, but how do I equate that action with, with them being a terrible person? That was one of those times where I was like, wait a minute, something's not, not quite right. Something's not quite right in my reaction. Like, like, I can disagree with what they do, but does that mean I have to hate them? Right. But it sounds like that was a kind of a way of thinking back in the 50s and 60s, where, where, where white people just had that, that, what you just expressed, like, you just couldn't trust them, they were, they were awful, and, and so colored people, people of color were, I, when I correct myself on this, because, because colored people saying it that way is quite insulting. It's, it's really bad. It's really bad, right? So, because it came from, this is the kind of language that these people used. So, today we prefer to say people of color. It's also called person-centered speaking, rather than, for example, disability-centered speaking, like, you would say, in working with kids with disabilities, we say, that's a student with a disability. It's not, you know, for example, a kid with autism, you don't say, he's autistic, what you do say is, he's a child with autism. Right. Some autistic kids prefer to have someone say, hey, I'm autistic, right? They, they embrace that, but as a, as a part of their character, but the, a way, the way to be respectful to somebody is to say, it's a person with this. So, now it's a person of color, or a person, I'm going to say white, but of color. So, yeah, like a lot of the thinking that I have, and the reactions, um, about people who smoke, um, is very similar to how people, white people react to people of color, which is disgust, and distrust, and disgust. And disgust. So, so, Jim Crow era, that time period, like in the 60s, or is it earlier than that? Earlier. Okay. It would be, the end of the Jim Crow era was 1960, so I'd say, um, 1890 to 1960. Okay, so that was really where the, that, that view of people of color being this, this group of people that does not associate with white people, that it's, you know. Right, they, they were either invisible, because they were in service positions, so they would just be furniture to a lot of white people. Oh, right, right, right, right, right. Or they would be noticed, and harassed, and all of that. Um, yeah, I remember seeing that in China, actually, like I had a similar experience with, like, um, I would, I would often teach at a, at a five-star hotel, and that was actually a, an instance of reverse discrimination, because I was only able to teach at five-star hotels, because I was white, from North America. You know, Canadian-American, um, Canadian or an American accent, and that look, and, I mean, that was an example of privilege, of privilege that I got. Like, I had very little experience as a, as a teacher, I, I had my degree in engineering, but, like, I was only in, like, 20, 24, 25, but I was, I was tutoring top executives in, in five-star hotels, in the center of Beijing. Right, like, I was given this privilege, like, it was, it was just incredible. But what I noticed, when I, whenever I would, would go into, uh, like a bathroom, there would often be an attendant, and, um, and that attendant, like, you know, as, just as a, because I grew up in, in Canada, as a, as a blue-collar, in a blue-collar family, so working family, working-class family, um, in a smaller town, and essentially where people are all equal. We recognize that we have different levels of authority, or different levels of power, but I grew up believing that people were fundamentally just people. So I would, like, say hi to the, the, you know, the person in the bathroom, or I would, you know, I would try to engage a little bit in conversation with them in my limited Chinese, right? But I don't remember how I, I don't know if this came up when I was talking with my, my, my tutoring students, or what, but it just, I started to learn that, that that was a very unusual behavior, that, for the most part, people in China are very class-based, and they would not even notice the existence of the cleaner, let alone acknowledge them or talk to them, and that, that was, I've seen this being kind of strange, but they even felt a little bit strange that I was talking to them. So I just, just wanted to share, like, like, the little bit of experiences that, that white people have with people of color, and, I mean, so the 60s comes along, and back to affirmative action, the Civil Rights Movement, I think it was. Yeah. So, legislation and laws get passed to... Federal or state? Both. Both, okay. That are supposed to ensure that there is not racism in the hiring practices, and, because people noticed, like, this company is all white men, that all the companies are all white men, and, after the Civil Rights Movement, you know, black people started running for, for government positions, so there's where we get a lot of attempts at equality legislation being put up, but affirmative action was supposed to make, put every, every race on the same level, even if the hiring, person hiring didn't want to, they were compelled to. Compelled to what, exactly? Hire people of color, or women. And then, what I recall, or what I know of this was, like, I mean, I don't, affirmative action, does that, is that, like, the whole process? Like, was it kind of, like, using the term Civil Rights Movement, or was affirmative action, like, a package of legislation or something? I'd have to go back. Oh, okay. When I say affirmative action, I mean, the, I forget even what it was, a declaration of law, a bill. Policy? A policy, it was, basically, you had to have a certain percentage of your workforce be a minority, or the opposite gender. I guess what went into the, like, the Employee Employment Act, Employment Standards Act, or laws, so that federal employees, like, they would probably, I mean, I was thinking about Canada. Okay. I remember that, my mom telling me about how correct has been with, in the, to be a fireman, you have to go through a... Training, or... Yeah. I mean, like, a boot camp. Yes, a boot camp. Selection process. Yeah, so he had done the training that you do, where they judge you, like, can you climb a ladder fast enough? Mm-hmm. Can you put out a fire? Right. And, at that time, affirmative action had just been passed. He, allegedly, was not hired, because he was white, and the person hiring made it very clear that he wanted to hire, you know, six of these guys, but he literally couldn't, because he had a clipboard, and you have to check off how many, so he could have... How many, check off how many... Minorities. Ah, minorities, right. Or women. Right. Whatever is a male, um... Protected groups. Yeah. In Canada, we call, like, there's, like, four protected groups, or something like, I think it's, I forget the term, but, basically, there's certain women, ethnic minorities, uh, gay, transgender people, um, religious, people with religious, certain religious convictions, but there's, like, there's all these categories that are protected, meaning, like, you, uh, there are all these rules, very specific rules, of what you can or cannot ask people in an interview, because those questions, basically, determine whether or not a person is a part of those protected categories. So, like, you can't ask somebody the age, because then you would find out how old that person is, which would then allow you to discriminate based on age. Yeah. So, that was, as I understand, interviewing and the human resources practices started getting a lot more oversight, and follow a lot more policies, and rules, and laws, regulations, and hiring. So as to not systemically exclude people. Right. And so, the Americans were doing essentially the same thing. Uh, starting to. Yeah. It was an acknowledging of, how do I put this? It was, like, revealing white people's true nature. Um, a lot of white people were really, really angry about affirmative action, because it felt like it was taking things away from them, instead of looking at the bigger picture of, you know, the firefighter guy did hire some white people. So, those white guys just lost out against other white guys for those positions. And then the fire guy is, like, feeding all of this, uh, disharmony by saying, you know, I wish I could, but, you know, the law, the new law. Yeah, like, it's, like, basically, but I mean, that would be, so as I hear it, like, so America's approach was, um, kind of added in, like, okay, well, you, you have to hire a certain percentage. Like, you just said, like, like, like, like, you can't be racist anymore. Right, and we're going to make sure that you're not racist anymore by saying that you have, you have to prove to us that you have X percentage, right, which was the only way they could come up with to basically force people to stop being racist. Yes. Whereas, I mean, I have to look back in Canadian history, because we probably did something similar, but, but I don't, I don't think we did the, that part where we had to say a certain percentage has to be a part of your staff. I think they went the way of stop asking these discriminating questions. They try to make it merit-based, rather than, yeah, don't make your decision based on the, make your decision based on the, the quality of the candidate, not based on their gender, or race, or, or, no. What you think about them as a person, outside of their job description. Right, and the whole, and the thing that's so ironic about all of this is that, is that by removing those biases that interviewers have, and removing all of these, these judgments about how, who should be in what position, actually hugely benefits the economy and businesses as a whole, because you start to get what you need, rather than what the HR department thinks you need, or some individual in the human resources department, or some hiring manager who thinks, because those people have a narrow view. Just by, by the mere fact of being a human being, you can't understand everything, you can't see everything. You have no idea what perspectives can be offered by people who are not you, who are not like you. By adding people who are not like you, it gives you a new way of looking at things that can benefit the company. However, it does come with the cost of, you have to start to learn some different skills, like how to listen, how to see different perspectives. But simply put, I mean, that's a pretty evolved way of thinking. It takes a lot of education, a lot of practice to view things like that, right? But, but I mean, America's approach was just like, let's just dumb it down, essentially, right? Make it simple. 10% have to be people of color, have to be people. Yeah. So yeah, so, so if it was presented, like there's 10 positions, but sorry guys, only, only 9 are available to whites. Like, if that's presented that way, how do you as a white person, how are you going to feel? Rage. Right. Just, just so, which... Rather than, how about, hey, we have 9 positions, plus we have an additional position available to us? Yes. I'd have to, I, I, I think affirmative action was created in the fact to get white people to hate minorities more. So you think it was a... So it's a recording of, of Lyndon Johnson, former president, or was it Nixon? I'm a bastard. Saying, um, if you pit a white man... Well, I'm useless. Anyway, I have a suspicion that affirmative action was framed as a progressive thing, but was actually written and executed in a way to sow more racial distress in, in lieu, in debt of, uh, victims of war on minorities. Because at the same time as derogative action, we have a war on drugs and the criminalization of crack cocaine versus powder cocaine. Anyway. So it's part of that, that whole strategy of, um, which we continue to see today, of just polarizing the country, of, of, of pitting people against people. Yeah. Keeping them busy enough so that they don't care what's happening in the government. Um, so, so as affirmative action was created, it, it, it helped in the sense of getting minorities into positions which previously were not available to them. Also in, uh, schools. Give access to education. I mean, like, elementary schools and everything were desegregated, but you had these other institutions that were still, like, no women. Like, boys clubs. I'm thinking of like, uh, I'm thinking at the time, like, there was, like, no Jewish people allowed. Um, except no women. Um, I want to say there was, like, a golf course in the south that was a holdout. Right. Um, and so I think at, at social clubs, you also had to allow black people and women in during that time. Okay. And that made white people mad because it felt like their, quote unquote, way of life was being infringed upon. Which, I mean, as a person who grew up hearing that side as well, like, I heard, I heard that perspective a lot from white men and just the frustration of, I mean, literally, it was, it wasn't so, it wasn't so nefarious. It wasn't so evil minded. Mostly what I, what I heard from men was just that they wanted a place to get away from their wives. They were tired of being nagged at home or whatever it was, you know, they just, like, they just, they just wanted to go somewhere to get away from their kids, get away from their wives, and just be around people that they could let their hair down around in their way and not be judged for it. Because I think that a lot of white men felt as they do now, um, is that getting this feeling is still there. White men feel like we're being made out to be the enemy. Um, you know, that, that, that, I mean, we've, we've we've grown up for, for all these centuries thinking that we're, our view is the right view. We're just, we're, we're the, you know, knights in shining armor. Yeah, the white knight, um, and and everything that we've been doing, like, we've been trying to, in general, I find that men are just trying to, they're just trying to do a good job. Um, most guys that I've worked with, they're just trying to do a good job. They're just trying to take care of their family the best they can. And, you know, some, often that requires a lot of sacrifice. Um, where I grew up, you know, blue-collar town. So, you know, we're talking about guys that are, men that are getting up at, like, three in the morning to get onto a bus to be, for an hour drive out to some coal mine where they spend, they spend the entire day in the mine, you know, in this dirty, you know, polluted environment, getting trucked back before by, like, seven o'clock at night, you know, and they just do this day after day after day. I mean, it's shitty work, um, but they're doing it. Well, a lot of the guys were, were doing it because they wanted to provide for their family. Yeah. And then, yeah, so then they're putting on all this effort and they're just exhausting themselves, sacrificing themselves, I guess, also including the wars, right? You know, a lot of men were feeling like they're going off and they're dying for the country, giving their lives up to just try to make things better. And then I feel like, like when, when men came back from the wars and, you know, when they come back from this, this terrible work, they just want some kind of stability. They want to feel like their effort was worth something. And because of all the stresses and everything, and probably with their own behavior, you know, it was creating these, these toxic environments at home. And so they just wanted to escape that because, because they just needed a rest. And so they created, as I understand, they created these places where they can go hang out with guys of like mind, you know, do what guys of like mind do together and just not be bothered, right? Don't be bothered by the, by the things that are bothering them in their life. But then when you have government or whoever else coming in and trying to tell you that now you, you have to bring in people that you don't want in, in this space, because of what I just explained, because you want a place to just go hang out and be yourself. You're just exhausted in front of accommodating other people. I mean, it's infuriating to have to give up something that is your only piece of peace. That's how it felt. That's how I've heard it from, and experienced it as a white man. Affirmative action, has it worked? Uh, did it do what it set out to do? Okay, cool. It set out to make a certain percentage of hiring practices different, and the underbelly, I believe, it set out to give the races another reason to be angry with each other. Right, right. There was way too much flack from the government over Vietnam. Oh, it's create, this thing. It's very complicated. So then, so then what's the current, the current, uh, stuff we're reading, seeing in the media? I mean, I haven't had a chance to dig into it yet, because so many shitty things are going on. What, what's happening? You don't even know either. I know the affirmative action in Supreme Court, but I'm assuming that the Republican judges did away with the affirmative action. Is that? I don't know. I guess we'll have to look into it. So that, that, that, there you go. That answers you, the, the, there's a good place to. I've been purposely avoiding anything about the government or the Supreme Court. All of the justices are openly taking bribes, and everybody's cool with it. Is that right? Yes. Really? Like, I, I just heard, I, I mean. Uh, Justice Alito has openly received gifts or other types of, like a vacation, um, clearance from us, he's a judge. Yeah, I heard about him, yeah. Um, I suppose I'm trying to think, but, yeah. All the judges are openly taking bribes. Yeah, I think another one. But they're not saying, are they actually bribes, or are they? They're, um, definite coincidences. Like, uh, God, I forget the, there's this guy who's in Cahoots clearing up trauma. Um. The billionaire guy? But they're all, yeah, they're all just rich people who are affecting legislation at the judicial level, which is supposed to not happen. The judiciary is not supposed to, uh, deal with law making or, or law dissolving. Because they're meant to interpret the law. They're meant to enforce the law. Apply and interpret. Yeah, make sure that the law is being followed out. Constitutionally, making sure that the law is being applied. Uh, and what they're doing is just canceling all the legislation that we've done for the past hundred years. And then how is that allowed? I mean, I thought that, I thought that once the law was created, it took an act of... Congress is supposed to be able to, uh, do a check and a balance there. I forget how. Um, but the, the person who's supposed to keep the judiciary in check is in Cahoots with a judiciary. And also receiving or giving the bribes or receiving things. So they're in on it. So they're able to, so, so what are they able to do with the law? Like, like, if a law is made, they can repeal the law? The, short, yeah. Um, you can, you can, um, submit basically something that says, I don't believe this law is constitutional. Can you please take a look at it again? And so it's handed back to a legislator, legislated? They send it to, to a judge. It goes up through, like, this is the, um, the recent one. Excuse me, erase it. Pro versus blaze. So with that, um, it was supposed to be settled law, which means that because it was passed, no Supreme Court would feel it was constitutional to then take it back. Um, but what happens is, uh, Republican states, uh, they created anti-abortion laws and then basically dared the federal government to do something about it. Okay. Um, and so, uh, somehow, sorry, um, pro versus way was supposed to be settled law. All women should have access to, uh, healthcare in that way. Um, and then the religious southern states started, um, challenging the constitutionality of a federal law granting abortion. And it went through all the powers that be, there's a certain system that something has to shake before it gets to the Supreme Court. So it worked its way through. It came to the attention of the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court said, we believe that, uh, women's right to an abortion is not protected under the constitution. So we strike down pro versus way, we strike down the federal allowance of abortion. Therefore, states can do what they want. So it's almost like, uh, because I, if I understand how American law works, I mean, there's a, there's a divide, there's a line between federal law and state law. Federal law handles certain things and states handle certain things. And they're not allowed to interfere with each other. Um, so is health a federal thing or a state thing? Or is it a mixture? The mixture. That's why Obamacare was so controversial. Because it was the government's attempt at health care. Yeah. Aside from the poor people stuff. So, sorry, just to, circling back to the beginning, we were talking about the, the, um, unalienable, unalienable rights of Americans are, are freedom, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. So doesn't a woman having an abortion fall under freedom and liberty? And the pursuit of happiness? The current Supreme Court said no. The current Supreme Court said no comma. We want the state to decide. So they want to make it, they want to make it an alienable right? Yes, yes. Potentially. Yeah, it was, it was. It hasn't been called. Right. So it's been alienated. It's been alienated. Okay. So, and then affirmative action is another example of established federal law. Yeah. Being, um, I would use a struck, struck down or just like, again, push back to the state. So this is the state's, state responsibility. Yeah. But education is federal. Yes. And it's guided by the civil rights law. You mean like segregation? Yeah. I mean, like, like policies and education are, are governed by civil rights laws. For example. Oh, I see what you're saying, just kids. Yeah. Individuals with disabilities. Yeah. But that's not just kids. It goes up to like 20, up to 22 years old for the education aspect of, right? Disability, but it's, but the whole point of part of the individuals with disabilities education act was a collaborative effort with the civil rights movement to, I've used this phrase a couple of times, cause this is how I've been taught it, but it's, it's to, to ensure access to education for everybody. Yeah. Like that's the civil, it's the civil right for every person. Every American. And the other part of what affirmative action is trying to do. Right. Ensure that, uh, all the, all the schools accepted a certain amount of diverse people. Which came like later as accepting a certain amount of disabled people. Yeah. Cause it used to educate, disabled, children with disabilities to be taught in segregated, separate institutions. And as long as in the eighties, I think, I mean, when reintegration started to happen. Another, another thing about affirmative action. So, can we just murder? Go out. No, it's just a spider. You can, you can go outside. It's a railing. Come on, spider. Go outside. No, don't go under there. Go outside. What's that? Come on. What's that? Oh, whatever. It's gone. Gone. It doesn't exist anymore. Anyway. There's only a little spider. It's no big deal. I hardly even see it. Oh, God. I saw it and I'm blind. Anyway. Are we okay to continue? Well, we should wrap it up. The spider came and told us it is time to stop talking. Well, that was amazingly educational. What were some of the main things? Is there anything that you learned from me as we were talking? That you don't know how to kill a spider. Okay. Yeah. I learned about native species. And then you have five protected. I think it's five. Actually, it's protected categories. As I was mentioning before, I probably know American constitutions and laws better than Canadian at this point, but you got to take a course. Well, you're being testified. Yeah. It's true. Yeah, I just, for me, I just recognized that I've got a lot of confirmation of what I've learned from TV shows and news and whatnot that I've grown up watching. It seems that the media that I've been watching throughout my life has been very accurate about how affirmative action has played out in America over the decades. And I mean, America is a huge country with a lot of diverse opinions, a lot of different diverse cultures, but it definitely seems that at a political level, at a federal government, at a government level, the people involved in government seem to always seem to have an agenda. And it seems to be quite destructive at times and harmful to people. And I know that other governments do exactly the same thing. But for some reason, it feels like the American political system is just out to keep everybody down. Something that I, I mean, Canadian government has the same kind of characters, people that are just lying to get into positions of power, but I just feel like they don't. Typically, the government that's in power doesn't ruin the country. Every four years, and it seems like America has this habit of just ruining the country every, every four years, and people just keep reelecting the people that are ruining the country. And people don't seem to be aware of the fact that the country is being ruined. So yeah, I mean, it's, they, because I guess they would argue with me and say that, that, you know, all the stuff that's happening, all the policies that have been implemented have ruined the country. Whereas I, I would, I would say the complete opposite. I think that the, it's nice, you know, my, my, my older brother grew up, you know, Canada and America were kind of like, kind of like siblings. And it's kind of like, you know, America's the older brother, you know, kind of a little more rambunctious and a little more daring. And, you know, they go off and they do great things. But sometimes, you know, they do some things that are kind of, kind of dumb. I like to see America grow up. It's time for audio effects. So that concludes this episode of Real English with real people talking about real life topics. Come back again for our next episode. We'll see you then.