BJJ Executive Podcast - Episode 26 - Open Mat

Welcome to the BJJ Executive Podcast, Open Mat. I'm your host, Dave Kroll. Today's episode is sponsored by PohadaFuel.com, featuring a deep product line of supplements to fill in the nutritional gaps for grapplers and for athletes of all types. Their XS and Nutrilite products are well-known in the industry for the clean and, in many cases, organic origination of their source product. And as a bonus, they're sold and distributed by my friend and a friend of the podcast, Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt, Tristan Gazelle. If you enjoy the podcast and wish to support us, please do so by liking and sharing our content on social media and by leaving a review on whichever platform you're listening from. The BJJ Executive Podcast is proudly partnered with The Mat Mission, a nonprofit 501c3 organization charged with spreading Jiu-Jitsu through communities in need and providing mentorship and leadership to the youth within those communities. If you want to get involved in The Mat Mission, follow our Instagram page, contact us on our website, or feel free to message us directly. As always, thank you for listening and making this a part of your Jiu-Jitsu journey. And as I always say, welcome to mine. Enjoy the episode. Cool, man. Well, let's get into it, dude. All right. So what is new? I know you have, what, you've got a new Jiu-Jitsu school coming. We do. Yeah, Justin Jiu-Jitsu Academy. Really excited about it. And I'd say if you asked me a year ago if I was ever going to open a school, I probably even said on the podcast. You probably did. Yeah, I probably said, no, I'm not going to open a school. You might have been a solid maybe by then. I've been a solid maybe for years. I was lobbying pretty hard. Well, I don't want to teach kids classes and I don't want to do it by myself. And I think I probably had said, at least at some point, I don't know if it was on the podcast or not, if I was going to open a school, I need more than one partner and I need someone who loves working with kids. Because it's not that I don't, it's not that I'm not willing, it's that I don't love it. And if I don't love it, I shouldn't open a business doing it if I'm the product. We talked about that. I remember talking to you about that today, like when we were on the mats. We've both gotten a really good dole out of teaching experience recently. And like for me, the one thing that I've learned is not that teaching in particular has got its own challenges, right? Like tactically, like in the moment and whatnot, it is a challenging thing to do, but it's not so much that, it's how consistent you have to be. Like if you own an academy, man, like for me, you know, and a lot of other academy owners, I mean, it's morning, noon and night every day. With none of the logistical things that have to do with making money. So if you're on the mats paying attention to your students and you're not doing any new creation, you're not doing any administrative work, you're not doing any maintenance or cleanup, you're doing that and you're interacting with people and it's what you get paid for, but it doesn't actually pay anything. And so you have to be highly aware of the, you know, the e-myth, right? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good book. Yeah. You need to be a good practitioner. You need to be a good coach and then you need to be a good businessman and you can't do all three in the hours that the classes are going. Even if you're not teaching. Yeah, that's good. I mean, I know the partner, you've got what Paul and Billy? Paul and Billy. Yeah. So Paul Gilman. I feel like he's got a stripe on his black belt. I think he does too. First degree. It would make sense. And great, great jiu-jitsu. Smooth. I mean, he's a, maybe he's a buck 40, buck 50 maybe. Yes. And if he's like a buck 70, Paul, I'm sorry, but I don't think so. I think he's a small guy and maybe he's a buck 25. Who knows? Small enough to where his jiu-jitsu is impressive with any big guy. And Billy's a purple belt. I mean, I nicknamed him the kettlebell because I've swung a kettlebell and I've tried to swing Billy around. It felt about the same. And there's a physical resemblance as well. Very low center of mass. That's right. I mean that affectionately. Yeah, no. He's like, oh, I don't lift. I'm like, shut up. Yes, you do. There's no way your arms look like that. Ever? Yeah. You didn't lift today. Yeah, exactly. This morning. Right. But we have to, I know there's three of us, but there's good yin and yang. Yeah. That's important, man. I mean, like, you know, any partnership, greatest strengths, weaknesses. I mean, you need a mix. I mean, just like we were talking about earlier, if you've got too much of a similarity on either side of it, things are really good when they're really good and they're really bad when they're really bad. What was the other thing we were saying? Go fast. Yeah. If you want to go fast, go by yourself. If you want to go far, go with group. So true, man. So true. It starts to become really obvious, like whenever there's friction, but then you just have to remember that. I mean, there's, you know, in order to get this thing all the way down the path. I mean, we all kind of have our, you know, little areas that we can contribute. But anyway, when are you guys opening? So we've been ready to open. We got the mats last month, probably late September. Yeah. But the time of this recording is October and we're basically in a stalemate. Haven't done anything because we need a certain door and Home Depot can't get it to us for like six weeks or something. And our door guys keep falling through because I think 2020, the COVID crackdowns kind of turned everyone's brains into mush. Dude, and their initiative. There isn't any. It's like, we literally have had people just not show up or not call us back. And it's like, we're just trying to give you money. I know, man. Can we get this done? There's too many people, too many other people that are out there doing it. Apparently it drives me insane, man. It doesn't feel like we've come out of that funk yet. Correct. We've had some major contracting issues that have gone on in our house, as you know, and I've been dealing with other businesses that we've started recently. And it's the same thing, man. I mean, just getting people that are like willing, able and... Willing, able and can just show up. That's a good start, showing up, you know, like we, for the most part, have made that bar, but it's just like the next step of it is, dude, gosh, man, driving me insane. Once we get the door, we'll build up the floors and we'll start teaching. We'll do a grand opening in January, but classes will start as soon as mats are usable. Because right now the mats are on the floor and we could do it on the floor, but you've wrestled and stuff long enough to where you want that built up with the foam and the plywood. Ideally, yeah. Yeah, we're going to have that built up and we'll order the bags once we have the space for it. Because we'll have a kids class and a cardio kickboxing class going at the same time. And then big kids and adult class going at the same time. So you can show up with the whole family in one car, one trip. Mom can do cardio kickboxing. Dad can do cardio kickboxing too, if he so desires. Or he can lift. We'll have strength training equipment there and go right into jiu-jitsu afterwards. And it'll be two hours of classes, come home without having to do the carpool thing. Yeah, I like it. I like it. The existing vibe already in that network is very family-oriented. So it'll lend itself really nicely to that. How are you guys going to split up the workload in terms of teaching? So as of right now, I'm committed to teaching on Monday, Wednesday nights, Tuesday, Thursday mornings. And I'll do the cardio kickboxing. I mean, define morning. A.M. 10 A.M. 10, okay. The crack of 10. No, no, no. I'll teach the cardio kickboxing class at 9. Whoa. I know, I know. And here's why. You know you're going to have to get up before 9 to do that. I don't normally get up before anything. The Northwest ISD is the closest school district and they've got drop-off and whatnot. So 9 is probably the sweet spot where Mama can drop off kids and come over and do the class without having to go home first or find something else to do. That's good thinking. So we'll do that at 9, be done, it'll be a 45-minute class, stretching and BS-ing afterwards, and then 10 o'clock we'll start jiu-jitsu if anyone wants to train. It's mid-morning so people can get some work done and then head over if they work from home and that giant community in there and just is growing like crazy in the surrounding areas. That's nuts, man. People can come get a 10 A.M. class in. I'll make sure they're done by 11 because I think you and I are pretty similar in that regard. It's like we can do a lot in an hour. We don't need to have an hour and a half class. And so I'm still going to be training at Prometheus at nooners. Yeah. I'm going to be teaching the kids' classes at noon that I'm teaching. Paul's teaching the kids' classes. Not that I won't help, but our goal is to have adult stuff going during kids' classes to create that unique business model because my oldest is 12 now, so I've been sitting and watching kids' activities for over a decade. Yeah. And the fact that there's this massive market just sitting there, scrolling on their phones, reading a book or whatever for an hour, it's like free money if you have any kind of alternative business for them. Even remotely close, we have this giant facility. Why don't we let them have the workout? They're sitting there anyway. And the ones who don't want to work out, who cares? They don't have to work out. That's right. I'd say at least half would go, well, I'm here anyway. Might as well. There'll be a lot of follow the leader, I bet. Yeah. You know? I agree. A lot of places have this stuff, but it's, I mean, once again, I mean, Jiu-Jitsu schools don't always do a really good job of just kind of like setting the rules of engagement. You know what I mean? Like, oh, there's a treadmill there. Can I use it? I don't know. There's a gear three hanging from it, you know? And I mean, you know what I'm saying? It just kind of like, that's actually surprisingly prolific. Yes. They have all this great strength training equipment that collects dust. I know. Nobody uses it. Nobody uses it. And it maybe gets used by the owner or whatever, but it's like, it's because we're a footage you're paying rent on, you might as well make money with it. A hundred percent. And I mean, what a great product. What a great blessing to the community that I get to exercise and take care of my body while my kid trains. I think it's dummy proof. I don't see any reason why we don't do it. It's like a self-liking ice cream cone at a certain point, you know, because like, like if you have a gym and you've got all this weight equipment and you don't set the tone on, hey, you could go use it. And I opened a gym and I said, yeah, well, Tristan's got all this weight equipment. He doesn't use it. He actually told me he wishes people would and they never do, you know, so I'm not going to even include it. Correct. You know, next thing you know, like you sort of like, I don't know, you just eliminated this option and went in there. Realistically, you just never teed it up the right way. Right. You know. It's all about promotion. I mean, I think that's where most people fall short is that they don't take the time to promote a product before they put it on sale. Yeah. And so people just don't consume it simply because they just won't take the time. It takes 30 seconds to promote something and you've got an infinite amount of use, especially with strength training equipment and kickboxing equipment. Like who doesn't want to hit and kick stuff? Yeah, no, no kidding. That's cool. That's going to be a lot of fun, man. I'm excited to hear more about it. So, I mean, the door's got to come in and you guys will be off to the races. Yeah, so hope in November. Hope in November. Yeah, that's cool. Because the door's a one-day job. Is it like a fire door or something like that? It's a fire door. That's the issue. It's fire code. What if you took the door off? Like, could you not train with not having a door on there? So there has to be a push door in each room. So every room has to have an exit sign and a push door to where they can run out, not open in, which is fair. There's blazing flames behind me. I don't want to back up into them. I want to push out. That's fair. All right, makes sense. Yeah, I guess that's just the way it is. It's what we did for getting a metal warehouse and us and a landlord not knowing that was the code until right now. Yeah, well, I mean, to the landlord's credit, I mean, I guess they would never have needed to go and deal with that if, you know, I mean, what was it before? They were making oil and gas products. I was going to say, I remember seeing like there's like meat hooks on the top. You know what I mean? Because of that, we got that cool mezzanine level. What's going to be up there? So I'm hoping viewing and couch. Yeah, that's nice. People can go up there, look down and watch the kids' class without having to actually make eye contact with them. Like they're looking down, so the kid's going to have... Yeah, a little work area, you know, parents can get up there and get some work done or something like that. Yeah, so they're either doing kickboxing or they're using the Wi-Fi and then that room with the bathroom is going to be probably a kid's room. Yeah. What's your teaching style been? I mean, you're trying to get as many reps as you can. You're teaching that night. Yeah, I'm teaching on Wednesday nights until we open and then obviously off to the races. But my format for the class is very similar to Formiga's just because I've enjoyed it so much. I've been to a lot of schools, taken a lot of classes, and I haven't enjoyed jiu jitsu more than I have at Double Five. And it's because I go and it's a competitor's class. Like you show up, you're going to learn something, so it's not like there's nothing being taught. It's not just drilling. Yeah. It's not a fitness class. It's my biggest pet peeve in jiu jitsu. It's like, let's do a bunch of non-specific movements. Start running. Yeah. The whole reason I do jiu jitsu is so I don't have to run. Why am I running in circles? I think you're fine, yeah. And they're like cartwheels, which I'm all about tumbling. Tumbling's an important skill set. But I'm going to end up tumbling when I'm rolling. Why am I doing... Yeah. Anyway, as I said, pet peeve. So I do dynamic movements, so arm circles, some very short static stretches, but they're all sports-specific movements. And so when I teach, I go through arm circles, and then when we go down, act like you have someone on your back. And so it's a downward dog, but you have a wide stance down dog, and it's like you have someone on your back, and you're trying to shimmy him off. All right, up dog. Okay, that's basically you're sprawling, and so let's work through that range for about 30 seconds. And then we start moving and swinging pendulum hips, like if you're working close guard, et cetera. So that way there's a relevancy to the movements that we're doing, but they're really gentle warm-ups. Circle up, go over the technique. Technique singular? Technique. Yeah, I'm that way too, man. Well, I got that from Framiga. I was like, I don't need four. It's my first class I taught in a long time. I tried the three. It was half guard pass, half guard sweep, and then a half guard submission. And I'm like, it's way too much. That's a seminar. I didn't realize how much that is, and yet I remember going to a lot of classes where it's a seminar every time. I went to a class here recently. It was an hour of teaching and reps. I'm like, this is boring. I know, man. It's like reading a textbook. I'm with you, and you know what I think it is? That's the way my original teaching style was, and it was trying to follow suit, you know, basically. Oh, that's the way it's always been done. But I'm with you. I really like the way our home classes are taught, which is a technique drilled, then rolled. Rounds. With predominant focus on the rounds. Now, I would love to have some more specific training included in that. So we do. You could always poke at that. Whatever the technique was, we start in that position. So I'm like, hey, goal is to get moving today, but if it's not your game, it's not your game. I mean, I've got dominantly white belts, so they don't have a game. Yeah, that does make it a challenge. But if you do situational rounds, they know something there. So everybody knows something there, and that's the goal, is that even if it's your first class, you're warm, you've got a technique, and you're in the position to be able to apply the technique or defend against the technique you know is coming. Yeah. Because I think they can have more fun with that. So the first two rounds are situational, so first round, you're attacking whatever technique, and then the other one, you're switching. So even if it's your first class, you at least had some opportunity to apply what you just learned, and then we do rounds to where we're within five minutes of the hour mark, and then the last five minutes, we do static stretching. Yeah. And same thing. Just, hey, down dog, up dog, pigeon, which is, hey, you need these for open guard and triangle, and we'll do these yoga positions, and then bow out. Yeah. And let's say we're done in an hour, and if you want to hang out and roll, cool, but my first class I taught, one of the gals had to go, hey, I've got to go home, make dinner, because it was about an hour and ten. I'm like, okay, I need to make this an hour. Yeah. And... I can see that. I mean, like, we come from a place where, I mean, I don't know, what time did we leave today? 1.30. Yeah. That's 30 minutes. Yeah. You know, and class ended pretty close to being on time. Yeah. But it's, you know, yeah, that's, we did, when I was subbing for Zach down at Roanoke Jiu-Jitsu, I don't know, a couple weeks ago, I introduced some of this specific training, and that's what we do. You don't come at night a lot, but during our fundamentals class at Formiga's, we do that, where, let's say he's teaching Chook's submissions from mount, right? We'll finish the class, he'll show whatever technique he's going to show. It's a theme for the week, and then the specific training is limited only to, you could defend however you want, you know, if we're only working, like, submissions from top, like, he's not going to limit how you can get out of mount, but the person on top can only, if we work cross-collar Chook, that's all you can do. If we worked cross-collar Chook yesterday and an arm bar today, then those are the two things you could do. And what's crazy about it is, as you start teaching the white belts that, especially if they've got a little bit of defense under their belt as well, I mean, you take my full menu off the table and limit me with those two, I might not be able to submit them in one minute. You know what I'm saying? Right. I mean, like, so, so it really is. Even five. Even five. Yeah, exactly. I mean, like, especially if they're patient and disciplined and say, hey, look, I'm good down here, you know, like, let him struggle up top. Usually it gets in their head a little bit, you know, like I need to do something stupid, like throw my arm up, you know what I mean? And it ends, but it's a good way to make it productive for everybody. And when you have a new school, I'm sure that's going to be a challenge. I've noticed that down, down South where, you know, we had whatever, 18 black belts today. I mean, like, that's a whole different set of problems, you know, than having four black belts and then a blue and a purple, you know, it's a different distribution. I would say most schools are on that second equation. Probably so. Like, Formiga's is super rare. Yeah, it is. You don't, you don't see that much talent all commuting. Because, like, no one lives here. Like, we're in Helen Village, Texas, like. That's what's crazy. None of these guys live here. They all commute for the class, including me now. I used to live here because I was smart and then I got stupid and moved away. Yeah. But, yeah, the, the caliber that you see, like, I think it was, I think his name was Glenn and maybe I'm misquoting. He was videotaping me doing kind of a day in the life for Formiga and he's like, dude, there's so much, I'm like, dude, nobody here appreciates it. Like, we drive here, we love it. Forget about it. We are completely oblivious that every school isn't like this. Yeah. It's pretty great. Yeah. The, when I was, when I was coming up, we had, I guess I joined this school, I think I was a blue belt. I can't remember. Maybe I got my blue belt at Valencia Brothers. But we had a sparring class. And so we had a sparring class and then we had a technique class and the technique, the techniques class was good. You know, I mean, we had a lot of information, but it was just so much. And after a while, after an hour, even just of drilling and working just techniques and whatnot, dude, lactic acid starts building up even for a 30 year old body, you know, like even when I was younger, you know, like it was just, it was still by the time we got to sparring, I was like, man, you know, I need like a gel or something. You went, you went for basically an hour long jog and then asked, then asked your body to do sprints afterwards. Exactly. Very different. Yeah, it is very different. I don't, I don't, I don't really like that. And also like I find myself, I think that people just need to be, you know, unafraid to say like, man, I've reached my capacity. You know, like I don't have any more, like you can't continue to put these things into my head. I'm not retaining it. You know, whereas I could drill something 20 times, especially if it's a theme for the week, you know, and start picking stuff up. Right. You know, that's why I like situational fighting is that you put yourself in that position over and over and over again. So let's start X guard. And if you pass my X guard, we start over. If I sweep you or submit you, we start over and let's just rep that for five minutes. Like you're going to get so good so fast because you're gonna be comfortable in the position when someone's going full force against you. I'm just, I'm a big fan. I don't think there's too much situational fighting to do, especially for competitors because you're going to be in a bad position. You need to be comfortable there. Yeah. And especially with the monsters that are in the, none of them have been competing in black belt for over a year. I mean, these guys are monsters. I mean, they've been training and competing since probably white belt, maybe blue belt. And if they've been a black belt for five years, I mean, it's deep waters. And I'm glad that I'm constantly getting smashed on by other guys like that at our school to where when I'm in that bad position and everyone's screaming at me, I'm used to it. Like, okay, this is normal. Yeah. It's crazy. I mean, like I'm not a black belt, so I, I, I haven't experienced this, but, but, um, I mean, in those ranks, I mean, you could easily and most likely go against somebody who has been a black belt longer than you've been training. Correct. Well, that was one of my pro fights. Especially as an older person, you know what I mean? Like in the master's division, right? Like, I mean, that's... Yeah, that's the weird thing about jujitsu specifically is the master's division, you would think, oh, it's older guys and slow. It's like, no, those guys are just as scary. If not, in my opinion, if not scarier. Uh, Professor Raphael Lang, he beat the dog out of me at Submission Hunter Pro. Uh, I mean, we're the same age, but he got his black belt in the 90s, if I'm not mistaken. And I could be mistaken. Maybe it's, maybe it's later than that. Maybe he started training in the 90s. Regardless, I mean, he's got decades on me. Yeah. Like I've only been training for, I mean, with the five-year hiatus, 16, 17 years. So 10, 11 years on that time. And he did that by the time he was probably in his 20s. Yeah. Right. That's, that's, it's funny. Cause, uh, when I was, uh, when I was in the adult division, like I competed a lot, it was kind of what we did, you know, like my kids were into it as well, especially Kai. Like Kai was really into going, um, and, and doing, you know, these weekend competitions. So the Naga circuit hit, South Florida was like big, it had Boca, West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale, Miami, like every weekend there was something, you know? And then I just stopped. Like I, I joined a gym that really didn't favor competition. It was more self-defense and whatnot. And then have just recently kind of gotten back into it. And I've started competing a lot, but I remember, I remember I was like, wow, I'm going to be a master's three. Like, dude, there's no way I'm in the world. These guys are going to be training as hard as I am. But the truth is like, dude, you're at your, your first of all, it's a Brown belt. You're at an elite level. They're making this model, you know? And guess what, man, they're training hard too. I mean, like these guys are out there with the same way it's doing yoga. They're doing all the things that they need to do to stay active or they're not, those aren't the guys that are showing up. So if you get on those mats of competition, man, like there's the, it's, it's on, you know, it's just the way it is. No one's getting paid. Right. A hundred percent. They're obviously doing it because we're freaking insane. Yeah. People are traveling. Yeah. That's what's crazy, man. So like everything that you think you're doing, that's so good. It's amazing when you start seeing people that match it to me, that's motivating, man. And I was like, oh, okay, cool. Well, what can I step up? You know? Well, I trained harder because I compete, not because I want to win. I do want to win, but it's because I'm hyper aware of the fact that if I don't, I will get, I won't be able, it won't be competitive. Yeah. Like a talent is, you can do talented blue. Yeah. Purple. Your purple belt, in my opinion, is just as dangerous as a black belt. They know most of the submissions. They know most of the positions. They know most of the sweeps. They can defend against anything you throw at them. You're not going to throw a lot at a purple belt. They haven't, I'm sorry, a purple belt isn't going to throw anything at a black belt he hasn't seen, but a black belt isn't going to throw much at a purple belt that he hasn't seen. Yeah. But yeah, blue belt, like you can have some good wrestling from prior experience or whatever, you can get there and you can get by. But once you hit purple, you're probably, you're out of the shallow end. Yeah. Like you better know how to swim. And then once you hit brown and I didn't start competing until brown professionally. And so I say professionally, like fight twins and 700 pros were professionals relative. But yeah, once I started there, I didn't realize how deep the waters could get. I thought that's as deep as the waters got. Yeah, man. People are putting out a room. Yeah. What's been the biggest thing that surprised you on while you've been teaching? I mean, did you teach a lot before? So, I mean, my background in personal training has definitely been a contributor because I've been having to describe kinesthetic things, but I did that for 15 years as a trainer. Like, Hey, no, like saying arch your back is so relative to a non-athletic person, you know what I mean? Or a stand up straight. I mean, that's relative, but the cues I had in personal training have definitely helped with jujitsu and I've never been selfish with my jujitsu. I've always offered up whenever somebody has like lower rank will come up and ask a question. I'm eager to help because so many people have helped me over the years. Oh, same. Yeah. I mean, after I think I've learned more after class than I've learned in any class ever. Like I say, 80% of my game is from getting stomped on and me asking the guy afterwards, Hey, you just beat the dog out of me with this same move three times. Can you show it to me? Yeah. And I mean, my crucifix roll from turtle was an after class move. My X guard game is from an after class stuff. Like nothing was taught to me that I use a lot, but the thing about teaching is you forget. I think I forget because we work at such an elite place. I say we work, we train at such an elite place that the fundamentals are, you assume everybody knows the fundamentals and they definitely don't. Yeah. Which honestly makes teaching a lot easier. There's way more I have than I realized starting teaching. So I'm thinking I'm going to have to come in with something to teach. And in one technique, I know about a thousand things about it that I assume they know. And now I'm learning lower ranks. They're oblivious. Yeah. Like don't cross your hands and close guard or grab the back of the head, not the back of the neck. Like there's so many little things that I can contribute that I know they'll take with them that I've taken with me that. Yeah. So it's refreshing. I think I was expecting to be less ready than I was, if that makes sense. Yeah. Cause everything else in my life I've had to like wildly prepare for. And this one is just the most, I don't have to prepare despite, I'm not going to do it disrespect and not be prepared, but I'm eager to teach because it's overflowing. Like there's plenty in there that I know that other people need. The biggest thing that I, that I wish I had when I was coming up are more, I don't know how to describe this. Cause there's pros and cons, right? Like, but, but systems, you know, and what I mean by that is if let's say that you could commit, and this is unusual, like you and I both probably train an unusual amount compared to the average student. So if average is maybe two times a week or so, I mean, we're probably two or three X that. Yeah. I would say the average practitioner from what I've observed, um, if they're smart, they have a complimentary fitness program that they're doing, and this is that auxiliary. Yeah. And it's a hobby as it should be. And you're not fighting all the time. Like there's like the likely now the likelihood of four people in a room getting into a violent altercation according to the FBI is three out of four will in their lifetime. Really? So three fourths of people will experience a violent, now that includes a elementary school, middle school, high school, and a violent altercation, meaning someone put their hands on you and it wasn't invited. That's a wide range. You can go from shot stabbed all the way to a shove. Yeah. But meaning more than half. Yeah. To get used to time. Yeah. You should probably know what to do. However, should you be able to fight at a black belt level, you don't need it. It's a hard sell. The reason I was still in class, like you and I were kind of preparing today to come out here, I was going to meet you here. You know what I mean? The reason I was, I was there when you got out of the shower is because Wes and I got in a, not a deep conversation, but we, um, we ended up in a, um, uh, a conversation similar to what you and I are just having. And Wes is so good at daily. He was so good. Like he did a, a, a full week daily Hiva basically course one, one time when for me it was out and I was telling him like, I find it funny that the daily Hiva black belt lineage, I know it was gone. And one of his students that didn't get his black belt from his teaching to, well, that just tells you the level that we've got, you know what I mean? And also like different people learn different things from different people, different ways, you know? And for whatever reason, now, whatever Wes was putting down, I was picking up. And the way he taught that class that week, I'm, I still apply in my mind right now as I try to perfect some of those techniques or at least, um, apply some of those techniques. And, um, so I was talking to him about it cause he's been drilling a lot of things. He's changed his game up a little bit because he broke his knuckle. And, um, and one of the comments that he just made was similar to, you know, kind of like to what you're talking about is like, look, every single one of those techniques, it's, it's a, it's a reaction for a jujitsu guy because we've solved these puzzles, you know? So like half of the, um, you know, like some of the fancy stuff, like a baron bolo, for example, it's all a, it's all an answer to a complicated jujitsu puzzle that's been presented from a daily sweep. How do you, how do you get on top? You know, you baron bolo. Okay, cool. Now what if you don't know if you get to, well, the minute he off balances, you, you stand up a double X, you know what I'm saying? Like, which is like a bully move from third grade, you know? So that the reality is, I mean like you don't need, you don't definitely don't need to be a black belt and you definitely don't want her to tell me he's a guard and you definitely, otherwise I'll put a guard, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, exactly. Like you're not going to be laying on your back, hold on to someone's leg when they aren't untrained. Yeah, I know. Exactly. I mean, hopefully you're in our, if that's your reaction, you probably ought to drill a few other things. I want to have some other parts of your game. I was standing up, probably a good idea. Like don't lay out concrete. Not a good idea. Um, I was in our CrossFit box and Sam Knight showed up, you know, we're just kind of talking. He was talking, he'd just gotten done with Jiu Jitsu the day before maybe. And he was, hey, he's getting good. He's like, I actually went against a bigger guy and he was newer and I mean, I did really good and then I got beat up by a smaller guy. And so I was like, yeah, but going against the bigger guy who's untrained should give you a lot of confidence knowing that Jiu Jitsu does work. You don't suck at it. You're against other Jiu Jitsu guys. So you're playing chess against people who have been playing chess equally as long as you. That's a bad metric on whether you know what to do when you play chess. You go against an untrained person who just learned the game, you're going to destroy them. But if you go against a grand master chess player and you just know the rules and you just learned how to play chess for the last year, you're going to get smoked. It doesn't mean you're bad at chess. It's just, it's a bad comparison. Yeah. He had you beat before you've moved your first pawn. Right. He had a, he had a roadmap that you didn't even know existed. Yeah, that's right. But he's applied over and over and over again, probably thousands of times. Yeah. Sam's a trip, man. He is getting good. He, I can tell he wants to win. Yes. He's a competitor. Obviously. You know what I mean? I mean, and I mean no disrespect, but like when you look at him, he might not come across as this like ultra competitive dude. He's really, he's very, he's humble. He's soft spoken, you know, confidently of course. But when you roll, especially now that he's got a little Jits under his belt, you know, like he's, he's, I've got, I've let him get a little too far ahead a couple of times and I'm like, nope. Not now. You have to earn that one. It's time. You are going back, buddy. You know what I mean? I'm like, I didn't know you had that in you. He's like, again, I mean he's, he's usually dressed well. Like he doesn't wear athletic attire that often. Like he's a beast of an athlete. Like he was doing squats and pull-ups today and I'm like, my boy. 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