Speak Kind-Episode #1 - Steve Prisco, President of Aramark Canada

The podcast episode features an interview with Steve Frisco, the President of Aramark Canada. Frisco shares his background and discusses the importance of kindness in the corporate world. He talks about growing up in a small town and how it shaped his understanding of the value of kindness and working together as a community. Frisco and the host also discuss the definition of kindness and why it may not be explicitly mentioned in mission statements or corporate values. They explore the difference between being nice and being kind, with Frisco highlighting that being kind sometimes means providing honest feedback rather than just being pleasant. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the benefits of hiring for kindness and creating a kind culture in organizations. Welcome to Speak Kind, the podcast where we explore the power of kindness, compassion, and positive leadership in today's corporate world. I'm your host, Debra May, and today we have a very special guest with us, the President of Aramark Canada, Steve Frisco. Steve, thanks so much. It's very kind of you to join us today. Glad to be here. Thank you. Can you tell us a bit about your background? Sure. I was born in North Bay, Ontario, so I'm a small-town guy from a town of 50,000 people, and grew up there, and went to university in London, Ontario, at Huron College at Western, and then I went to law school at Dalhousie in Halifax, and then was called to the bar in Ontario a long time ago, about 25 years ago, no, 25, 23 years ago, I think, 2001, and practiced law in downtown Toronto, then was on a secondment to Aramark, started in 2002, and was hired by Aramark in 2004 to be Aramark's first lawyer outside of Canada, or outside of the United States, I should say. And then I worked in that role, really liked being part of the business, and understanding business legal advice, I'd call it, and I think as a person, I always debated whether I wanted to be a lawyer that had a good business sense, so it made me a better lawyer, or be a business person with a legal background. Didn't ever have the courage to do anything until my predecessor, Andy Siklos, asked me what I wanted to do, and I said, well, I'd love to do his job someday, and a few weeks later, he asked me to be the Chief Financial Officer, of which I had no background whatsoever, and so I spent time as the Chief Financial Officer, and I moved operations around our business in Ontario, and then I was the Head of Sales for Alls Canada, or Chief Growth Officer, until I took this position last October. So, come from a small town, and learned a lot, and kindness is a big part. I was just going to say, I wonder if kindness, like I often believe that people that grow up in small towns, they tend to learn, not that I suppose people in the city don't, but in small towns, I always felt like we had fairly strict upbringing, and manners were important, and being, you know, helpful, and it was a community feel, right? Everybody had to work together to, I worked, I was from a farm, so it was always all the farmers worked together, and that kind of thing, so I often think that that has something to do with who you become, maybe, I don't know. I think so. I don't know that we were strict on manners in my household. Manners could have been tighter, probably could have been tighter, but being in a small town, I think you, when you're growing up, you get more opportunities than in a big city. In a big city, you're competing with so many different people beyond in the club, or on the sports team, or whatever, and so I remember one thing, I was on student's council in high school, and we learned about treating people the right way would help us get things done, so we knew the janitorial staff very well, because if we were organizing a special event, or a dance, or something like that, they're the people who could help us out, so I remember Steve Nunner, Bob Estay, they were some of the janitors at the school, and we got along with them great, and we didn't do anything special, we were just, we were thoughtful as it related to them, we were ourselves, and we understood what their risks were, and their challenges, and so we tried to help them out too, and I think that, I learned a lot, that was kind of the foundation of... I think it worked a lot the same way here, I find that as a company, having worked here for six years, that's the thing that shines through the most, is that every functional team, and the operators were all willing to work together. Thank you, that's great. So I was trying to prepare for all of this, and I thought, you know, I'd look up what the definition of kindness is in the dictionary, so there were several sort of things that came up, you know, and it says, behavior marked by acts of generosity, consideration, rendering assistance, and concern for others without expecting praise or reward in return. It also says being gentle, caring, and helpful, and then there were two that I thought were interesting, treating people with respect, affection, and benevolence, a genuine desire to help and uplift others, and kindness is a choice, to be selfless, and ultimately is about connection, it is an essential aspect of human relationships, and that's why I often think, why don't we see kindness in a lot of the things, you know, mission, vision, and values, we don't actually see the word kindness, it doesn't show up there, but yeah, you see that all of those other words are there, and I wondered why that is, and what's your perspective on that? Yeah, I don't know, I think sometimes people probably think being kind is, it goes without saying, and they would just assume that places have folks that are kind, and it also doesn't grab people like other words, like respect, or words like that, and so I think it's probably downplayed, but I do think it kind of comes into things, and to the culture that you want, and if I even jump off that word respect, that was one of the words you used in your definition, and if I'm interviewing someone, the first question I ask is how they develop relationships built on trust and respect, and so I think that's a key driver of having the right people in your organization, people who are going to respect one another, because if you don't respect people, you're not getting anywhere, right, it really starts with a fundamental thing like that, and I think the other big part that I took from that definition was the first half, which is consideration for others, caring for others, and that gets back to that word thoughtfulness that I was talking about, and I think that thinking of others, being willing to put others ahead of you, that's the type of environment I want to work in, I want to work in an environment that it's not just about me as an individual, I'm a very competitive person, but it's more competitive with myself and looking for success as opposed to stomp on someone to get ahead competitiveness, and I think that thoughtfulness helps to create that type of environment. So why do big companies not use the word kind? It's probably too much of a positive word, I don't know. Or it could be too big. Maybe. That's what I think, it's just too big, and it doesn't really, the whole, I had a couple of questions around this, obviously that question, but then I thought, I looked up the definition of nice. It's funny, because I was thinking what's the difference between kind and nice, and really nice is a very different, it's being pleasant, agreeable, and enjoyable, but it's based on social expectation and the fear of repercussions. So oftentimes corporations hire people that are nice, but they're nice because there's repercussions associated with not being nice, whereas kindness I think is something innate in people, it's how they grew up, like yourself. You didn't have to agree to do this podcast with me for an hour, it's completely in essence a volunteer thing for you, and yet you did, because you're a kind person, you're getting nothing out of this, but you're just giving me your time, which I think is amazing. So that's where I was kind of saying, I think that that's where some corporations fall into, is everyone's expected to be nice, but they're not necessarily hiring for kindness, like hiring for the things you were talking about, respect, thoughtfulness, that kind of thing. So that is the reason for this whole podcast, is how do we get the message out that hiring for kindness is really the way to go, it could be a differentiator for a company. I think it absolutely could be. I think you definitely want thoughtful, caring people, you want folks who are going to respect one another, so yeah, I think it could be an advantage. Sure. So, I have a question for you. Would you agree that kind people are not always nice, and what would be a scenario for that? I have one, but I thought I'd get your thoughts, so can you be kind and also not be nice, and why? Yeah, because I think if you're being nice, then you're doing things according to social norms, and I think at times the kind thing is to be honest with someone about something that they need to know, and so someone who's being nice may just say, oh, hi, Debbie, good job, and what you might need to hear is, hi, Debbie, thanks for your effort on that, I think it could have been better if you did this, and that actually is kind because you're giving someone some feedback or commentary on how they can get better, whereas the nice person is probably just going to avoid that, and you could do the same thing ten times in a row, and you wouldn't know, because you just thought, everyone keeps saying good job, and whereas a kind person would be more thoughtful about the feedback. And that's exactly what they said, is that nice is for the immediate moment, but kind, someone will not be nice if they believe that the better solution is to give feedback and know that the future will be better, like you're teaching someone how to be better in the future, so I was trying to think, when would that happen, and I was thinking with my kids, it happens all the time, they're saying that they don't like at the time, I am not nice, I always say that to them, I am your mom, I don't have to be nice, but I am making sure that you are safe, and that you are not putting yourself in risky situations, and so I'm trying to teach you, and I say no to something, that's why, so I'm not nice at the moment, but in the end, that to me is being kind to them, because I'm teaching them lessons about things that they have to be wary of, I guess, so yeah. That's a great example. Yeah, that is the only one I could think of, but I was trying to think through, look at the research, I guess, around what a kind culture actually looks like in an organization, and there were three things that came up that I thought applied to you, there's other things that kind of apply to some of the other folks that I'll be interviewing, so the three things that came up is leadership must demonstrate kindness through actions, interactions, and decision making, and when done consistently, if that's the tone for the organization. So do you think that Aramark demonstrates kindness in its interactions and decision making, and of course I recognize that nobody's perfect, and so we all, we have ups and downs kind of thing, but in general, do you feel like we do interact with our clients, with our vendors, with our operators, everybody, do we interact in a kind way? I think so, and I think it's because we value relationships, and when you value relationships, you want to go about that in a kind way, you want to be thoughtful in relation to those people, and so it's not just always about a number, or a statistic, or what you can sell something for, or something someone has to give you, it's figuring out what's best for the relationship, and then doing that. Let me give you an example, COVID, COVID's a good one, when COVID occurred, it changed the world for everyone, and so we had all kinds of financial challenges that came with that, but we didn't leave with our financial challenges, we went to universities, and were basically shut down, and we said, okay, what do we need to do to help you now, and in a lot of cases, they said, well, we're shut down, however, we have a lot of international students, and so can you help us support those people who can't, because of travel restrictions, go back to their home country, so at King's University College in London, Ontario, there were a few kids who were from Asia, I think they were Chinese students, and China wasn't accepting people back into their country, so those kids were left on their own, and in a tough spot, and our manager, Louisa, took care of them, and made sure that they were fed every day, and that they had good food, and that they had food that was, as best you could, localized to what they would like, and those kids felt like they were at home, and to me, that's kindness in a few different ways, it's kindness how Louisa dealt with those students, it's also kindness how we dealt with the client, because we could have been, sorry, there's no money, we can't pay, there's no economy to scale, there's nothing we can do, and instead of leading with that, we were thoughtful about what their needs were, and we went in and said, how can we help you, and then that enabled people like Louisa, in just one example, to help with the students, and so that's a way that I think that we're kind, and I think that in the marketplace, as compared to some of our competitors, we definitely be viewed as more of a kind company to do business with. Yep, I think that's the Aramark way, I always say it's the Aramark way, but I think it's a great way to be. I think so, and I think it is, in many ways, the cultures here, but I also feel like I have a big obligation to make sure I drive that, whether I'm helping to bring in people of that same culture, or that people see how I act day in and day out. That's it, right? I was thinking how, I was trying to think, Andy was the same way, always walking around, asking people how they're doing, you're not having service level conversations, you remember things about people, you're asking them, how was your trip, or how are your kids, and how did it go over there, and the other thing that I always think about is, often times I'll bring potential employees by, or dietetic interns, whoever it may be, and you always stop and talk to them, and you always ask them questions, where they're from, what they're doing, how long before they graduate, blah blah blah, and I think that, that to me is very special, I don't think a lot of CEOs or presidents do that, right? And I guess I wanted to know why, why do you stop and take the time to do that, or do you feel like that's an investment, if that potential employee becomes an employee, they have a great first impression of you, or is it because you think that will make them want to join our company? I do it because it's the right thing to do. And it's who you are, right? It's who I am, and I think it's, I'm interested in people, I like to get to know them, I think it's, we'll have a much better relationship if I know them and they know me, when we have a tough time, it makes it easier to get through a tough time, and so I just, I'm interested so I do it. I tell my kids, you need to treat people same but different, and what I mean by that is you need to treat people with the same level of respect and interest in who they are, and then once you get to know them, you understand that they're different people, and so you treat them a little differently, because this person is a little bit more all business, and this person cares about something different. Okay, so because I got to know you, then I can treat you different, but I don't lead with that, I lead with treating everyone exactly the same. And I think if people see that of me, then I only believe that people say, well maybe that's a good way to be, and I'll try and do more of that myself, and I think if people do that, I actually, I never thought of it in terms of the word kind until this podcast, but I think it's a kind way of being, and who doesn't want to be around people like that? This is a tough one. Do you think that Aramark demonstrates kindness in its interactions and decision making? Oh, did I already ask that one? I'm sorry. Well, I don't know if you asked it exactly. Oh, okay. Decision making is a piece I was trying to get at. Do you think, you have to make tough decisions all the time, and I wonder how you reconcile kindness in those decision making, is it something like we just talked about, where you know you're looking ahead going, I want to make the best decision that will be kind to everyone in the future, or how do you look at that? I think all the time it comes into play because we have obligations to shareholders, we have obligations to each other to hit our performance goals, and do that type of thing, but if all you think about is hitting how much money you made, or how much business you grew, then I think you lose sight of the kindness, and I think if you don't have the kindness, then it doesn't set you up for future success, so it's like a bit of an investment, and so I can think of all kinds of examples, I thought there's an example just last week where someone came to me with something, a decision that had to be made, and it was going to cost us a good chunk of money that we can afford, but we can't afford against our budget, we don't have a budget for it, but it's the right thing to do, and so I went back to that person and I said okay, I agree, you need to do it, but because we don't have a budget for it, I need you to do it in the most efficient way as possible, and to me, that's a way of being kind, it's agreeing what's the right thing for the long term, that might be the right thing for a person, or a department, or something like that, but then you have your obligation on the other side to be financially responsible, so then you try and do that kind thing most effectively as possible, and so I think that we have that, it happens all the time. Kindness metrics, that's the second one, so kindness is a part, or should be a part perhaps of an employee's performance evaluation, do you think that we do that now, basically how well do we think an employee contributes to a positive, supportive work environment, so is that something, is there, is that an option to put kindness as one of the core sort of performance measures, or is that something that would be too hard to do, is it, I don't know. Yeah, so I don't know that, I think I would separate performance and potential, so performance is usually buttoned down to how you've achieved measurable things, and so whether that's, you have to produce a certain number of menus, and concrete, you make it or you don't, and so I think that there's a lot of, in performance, a lot of you make it or you don't, now if you don't make it, I think someone can be kind to you and say, hi, you didn't make it, however, I know that you had to go help out on these two other projects, which limited this goal, so I see that's where maybe in performance it comes in, I don't know that you exactly... Or it's the response to, not a poor performance, but if there's a deficiency, we put in, we would have development plans, which are again, a kind way of saying, we know you want to be here, you're here, we'll get, you know, this is what we think you need to do, or they help, we help, say, an employee to get ready to go, so I think you're right, it's maybe Although I think this is what they're implying in the research, is that there should be some sort of kindness metric built into an organization, I don't know, again, I was trying to think through what it might be... Yeah, but I think where it comes in for me, Debbie, is I think it gets to that potential piece, and so if I'm looking at people who I think would be to go into bigger roles, more promotable, there's a certain characteristics that I want, and kindness would be one of those things, and so in your day-to-day, how you did this year, just because you succeeded your job at this level doesn't mean that you're going to be promoted to another level, and so you either hit your metrics or you don't, and I'm a good example of this, I think people would probably look at me and they would say, oh, I was always rated above target in my jobs, I wasn't, like sometimes I was above target, sometimes I was on target, I don't think I was ever below target, but I was always on target, but I think one of the reasons that people, they saw that I could do more is probably because of my relationships and I was kind and thoughtful and people liked working with me. Yeah, that's the thing. And so I think there's a piece to that, right? Yeah. No, I agree, that makes a whole lot of sense, it's the whole picture again, kindness is big, and how do we, you know, you're not just looking at what they're doing on a day-to-day, it's how are they interacting, are they getting things done with people, through people, that kind of thing, and, okay, and again, this third thing that I kind of tied into you is self-care, and they talk about how it's so important for kindness, for a person to be kind, they need self-care, they have to, their well-being is prioritized, and so that whole idea that you can't pour into someone else's cup if your cup's empty, kind of thing, so I think, again, that's where Aramark really is great, that they do, I think, have a lot of wellness programs this year and engagement and things like that, so did you want to speak to that, do you feel like we do a pretty good job, I would say more than a pretty good job in terms of looking at how our employees are taking care of themselves? Yeah, I think so, I think we've got all kinds of different programs that are in place, whether it be Take 15, or a nutritional thing, information we're providing, so I think there's all kinds of programs, I think even more of it comes from the example, once again, that people set, and that, you know, I've had all kinds of people who've worked for me in the past, and they're very committed people, and yet they don't take time for themselves, and so I think they would tell you that the thing that I was on their case the most about was why are you working? Take a vacation. Take a vacation, take it off, you don't have to do that. I'm kind of guilty of that, and I agree, because if you just take a couple days off, it's amazing how much you come back kind of refreshed, but the thing is, you're thinking of all the things you have to do, and you know, you end up working more than you should, but I think it's, yeah, it's absolutely a part of it, I was just talking to a friend who was at a conference, and it was talking about mental health issues are, you know, probably the highest they've ever been, I don't know statistically, but what they said was is there's always a lot of corporate programs to help people who are struggling, but at the end of the day, the most important thing is that they come to work, and they feel supported by their coworkers, and they feel like their coworkers are not necessarily friends, but people they can rely on to talk to, or, you know, to get away from the anxiety, like come in and not feel like there's a pit in their stomach that they're going to work and have to work alone, or not have any contact with anybody, and I think that that is what I, again, notice most about coming to work, I love coming to work, I love chatting with people, and just knowing that everybody that I smile at usually smiles back. I know, listen, I love coming to work, but I'm also not shy about saying what I do for self-care, and so for me, that is a lot of exercise, I'm in a better mental space, and I try and exercise, whether that's play tennis, or go for a run, or I recently got an electric bike, so I've been biking to work, and so I'm not shy about it, I don't show up here until 9.30 most days, so I'm not the first one in the office, I don't think you need that culture, and people know where I'm at, and they know not to quote-unquote bother me when I'm doing that, and I think it's important as a leader to do that, because it says that doing something for yourself is important. Thank you so much, Steve, for speaking with us today, it has been a wonderful experience for me to listen to you, as well as everyone who is listening to this podcast. Again, we have been talking to Steve Prisco, the President of Aramark Canada, and remember the heart of Speak Some More Time lies in these conversations, so let's spread kindness one episode at a time.