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The transcription is about a conversation between the speaker's mother and a friend about how expressing identity has changed through generations. The mother discusses how expressing identity was important in high school and how she identified as a quiet goody-two-shoes. She expresses herself through activities and the people she associates with. The mother also mentions that it was important how other high school students viewed her identity. Over time, her view of expressing her identity has changed and she is now more comfortable in her own skin. The friend discusses how they express their identity through physical presentation, such as posture and tone of voice. They describe themselves as a lady and emphasize the importance of being treated with respect. They also mention that they don't care about how they dress but express themselves through the way they carry themselves. They both agree that it's important how other high school students view their identity. Oh, is it recording, it's recording, okay, glorious. And we're here with my mom. Hi mom. Hi. Yes, lovely. So, our topic is how expressing identity has changed through generations, so let's, the basics first. Okay. Do you feel like expressing your identity is important, or was important, when you were in high school? Ooh, when I was in high school, yeah. Yeah, because it kind of defined who your friends were. Like forming cliques and stuff like that, or? Cliques wouldn't be the word I would use, more like, who your friends would be. Who had the same interests? Yeah, who had the same interests. You know, people who played sports together, who had that kind of an outgoing type personality. Yeah, you were a band kid. I was a band kid, and therefore all of my friends were band kids, for the most part. And we just, we had that connection, and had the same interests, and just tended to gravitate toward one another, both during school and outside of school. Yeah, that kind of leads right into the next question. How would you describe your identity in high school? Ooh, I was a quiet goody-two-shoes. Well, I already knew that, so, well, yeah. No, I, you know, like you said, my friends were the band and orchestra people. Your parents were teachers in the district. Both of my parents were teachers in the district. My mom taught in the same high school. All the teachers knew you. All the teachers knew me, and all the students knew who I was, and who my mother was. Which was great at times, and other times, not so great. I think I was probably a little more cautious or introverted, and more shy, maybe because of it. Yeah. A little bit? Yeah. In what way do you think you express yourself most? Like clothes, or like? Probably just by the activities that I choose to do, and the people I choose to associate with, and how I interact with other people. Yeah. Was it super important how other high school students viewed you, or your identity? Um, yes and no. I was always the kid who wanted to fit in somewhere, but never really found like that place. Yeah, my core group of friends seemed, although they were all within the music department, seemed to shift every year. My freshman year, my best friends were seniors. My sophomore year was kind of an odd, quirky year. My junior year, my best friends were probably... My junior and senior year, I probably gravitated more toward the class just below me a little bit. And friends that I had made that had already graduated. Yeah. How has your view of expressing your identity changed over time? I mean, now that you're old, you know. Now that I'm old, yes. I think at this stage of the game, I think I'm just more comfortable in my own skin. And I'm still shy and quiet, but at the same time, I know better who I am and who I want to associate with. And that's an accomplishment. Yes, exactly. Yeah. And that pretty much concludes it. Thanks, Mom. You're welcome. Yeah. Farewell. Farewell. All right. And now we are here with my friend Tessera. Hi, Tessera. Hello, Dexter. How are you doing this morning? I'm tired. Oh, no. Not enough sleep? I mean, it is finals week. It is. It's kind of nuts. Yeah. So, what are we going to be talking about today? So, expressing identity has changed through the generations. Ooh, how far back are we going? Well, I just interviewed my mom, so kind of. I'm thinking, like, before social media and after social media. I will admit, I do not have social media. I have never used social media. So, I would say that anything, any information you are going to be getting out of me will be solely about how I express myself in face-to-face interactions or through messages, such as text or e-mail. We can work with that. Yeah. That works, too. It doesn't necessarily, like, have to be about social media. It's just, I guess what we're trying to do is, like, how expression has changed. How has expression changed due to social media? Not necessarily due to social media, just due to, you know, times changing and things like that. Yeah. Yeah. So, do you feel like expressing your identity is important? Absolutely. I wake up every morning, and I have to figure out how I want to present myself as a person. I generally don't care about the type of clothes that I wear, and it's more of how I present myself physically, like my posture and my tone of voice that I feel express me the most. So, I never really have a physical manifestation of my personality that I show to the world through clothing or jewelry. I feel that everything that I want to say about myself, I do with the way I present my being. Are these legal? Yes. It tastes like a normal ice, except it has caffeine in it. Oh. So, it's caffeine. Yeah. Get you through the day. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Get you through the day. How would you describe your identity? Let's start with gender. So, I am female. I was assigned female at birth, and even though I've had some times in my life where I thought, you know what, maybe this is something I should think about and consider, maybe going by different pronouns has always been like, you know what, no. No, I just really, I do feel like a girl. I just don't like the way that women are treated in society. Yeah. So, me wishing I wasn't treated like a woman has nothing to do with the fact that I am one. Yeah. I am female, and I would feel that my expression of myself is quite feminine. I have gone through phases where I only wear dresses, and again, I've also gone through phases where I'm like, I hate that the fact that girls have to wear dresses. I will refuse to wear dresses for two years. Yeah. But I still like dresses. I feel that even when I am dressed more masculinely as I am right now, I still present quite feminine. Oh, yeah. Let me get that for you. No problem. We can cut that part, and I will start out with… So you feel like you present more femininely? I do. With the way that… Here. How would I describe my gender identity? Solidly female, and I feel like I don't feel like a girl. I don't feel like a woman. I would describe myself as a lady. Does that make sense? Yeah. Like, I don't want to be treated like a woman or a girl. I want to be treated like a lady. Yeah, like you're… I want people to respect me. I want dignity. I want to be able to be feminine and not get catcalled. I want to be a lady. Yeah. And I feel that that's… Treated with respect. I want to be respected, yes. And I feel that that comes off a lot in the way that I express myself. Yeah. I mean, you're really cool, personally. But, like, I can totally see where you're coming from. Because with the… Just the way you carry yourself, it's like… Let's see… You command respect. In an orchestra, I have had multiple conductors, at least three, maybe as many as five, tell me that I scare them with the way that I look at them, the way I pay attention. And I do feel that that's a good representation of how I present myself. I know I can be disconcerting, but… It's a little intense at times, but that's like… That's a good thing, right? See her in the way that you would look at a magnificent battleship. Yeah! Oh, that's a good way to put it! I want to be feared and respected. Yeah, I was thinking about, like… Because, honestly, like, humans are the only species, honestly, out there that treats the female of their species as inferior. Like… Yeah. If you think of, like, a lioness, you're not going to, like… Yeah. I can't believe that guy got killed by a girl lion. The males don't even hunt. No, they don't. No. They're lazy. Yeah, they just lay around and make babies. No. And it's true that this is something that people experience. I've had a friend say, they, them, but not, like, in the middle, between male and female. They, them, like, you look at a pile of leaves and say, you know what? There they are. There's that pile of leaves over there. There they are. And not having gender attached to it. Hmm. And some days I relate to that. Some days I do feel that, you know what? All that I want at the end of the day is to be respected. What about you? Me? I mean, I go by he, they pronouns. I'm kind of, like, right in the middle of male and, like, no gender. Ambiguous. Yeah, ambiguous. I would, sometimes I describe how I feel some days as, like, I'd rather not be. It's the way the wind looks in Aspen trees. That's how I want to be some days. It's like the wavy sort of, like the. Some days I just want to be here and not necessarily observed as a sexual object. No, no, I don't. Please don't observe me as a sexual object. Anyone ever. No. I see people as human. Yeah. Who are in slightly different shapes. Yes. Yeah. In what way do you think you express yourself most? Definitely the way I carry myself. My tone of voice. The way I hold my shoulders and my chin and my head. And I would say that I express myself through dignity. I care. And I care about what other people think of me. Not in such a way that I want everyone to like me, but in such a way that I want people to know that I'm here and that I'm competent. I'm competent. I was just about to ask if it's important how other high school students view your identity, and I think you just answered that. Yeah, that totally makes sense. I don't care about how I dress either. I mean, I just kind of want to be comfy. But I also – You showed me your amazing plaid on the inside. Holy man's pants. I mean, they look like work pants. Like you're ready to go garden, but then on the inside they're pajamas. They're so warm. It's perfect for a day like today. Like gardening work pants with pajamas on the inside. Yeah. It's kind of like gender identity. Yeah, it's like – I mean, I – It works. I don't really necessarily – I throw on whatever clothes my hands first touch in the morning. Oh, yeah. It's lying on the floor. I know it's clean. I put it on. Yeah. Fair point. And then I personally, I'm more of a wallflower. You know this. I don't do people. People scare me. It's not that I don't – It's not that I want people to like me. I want people to just kind of like not necessarily stay away from me. I don't want people to not like me. I just kind of want a little bit of space. Like I'm not necessarily super approachable. I would say that the first impression that gets off is, oh, that person is slightly scared. I have heard this from multiple people. That's not how I saw you. Huh. Do tell. You were like – I think the first time I ever actually saw you was when we were in junior high. Yeah, because I don't remember when I first met you. You've just kind of been there. Yeah. Just there for me. And you were just – I don't know. You always wore the craziest stuff, and it was so cool. Oh, no. That was my chicken face. Dear God. I thought it was so cool, though. It was great. I wore those work boots to school every single day, and I did not care. You were a walking piece of art. I am a walking piece of art. Yeah, you are. And then when we were in AP music together – Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, because that's where I actually kind of – that's where we actually started interacting. That was super fun. You were so knowledgeable. You were so cool. You played cello so well. How do you think that the pandemic has changed the way that people express themselves? Because that was a big thing. Yeah. Eighth grade, ninth grade, those were formative years. And we spent a year not seeing each other, or not just you and me not seeing each other. No one was seeing each other. No one saw anyone. We went to school with cameras off. There was – I mean, I know I was never harassed in the hallways because there were no hallways. There were no hallways. Nobody in your class even knew what you looked like. When there were group projects, it sucked online. It was always done over email and chat. And you never really knew what the other person looked like or even what gender they were. It was like, all right, Alex. No clue who Alex is. But they're pretty good at math, so can you do this math portion? And then we got an A. Like, way to go, Alex. No clue who Alex was. Yeah. Good for Alex. Yeah. I always had my camera on. I was the only kid in class with the camera on. Perfect posture. I respect that. I don't think I had you on any of my classes, but I would have been, like – I would have known it. Oh, I – It was, like, the teacher and then me. And I know, like, I was responding to questions. People probably thought I was incredibly pretentious. No, I would have, like – Maybe I am. No, I would have, like, looked up to you. I'd be like, oh, my God. She's a God. Like, I don't know. Like, confidence is never something that I have had, like, ever. Like, not a shred. So, honestly, just the – having the guts to, like, actually turn your camera on and have people look at you, like – I don't mind being looked at. I've been on stage since I was four. Fair point. Doing cello things. I've never minded attention. I had a point that I was desperately trying to go for, but then I forgot it. Let's see. And with this interview, you can pick and choose parts. We can just, like, have a conversation. Yeah. Kind of face each other. Stick that computer in the middle. Oh, yeah. Oh, no. This is horrible. Ah! You okay? No. I find it – So, the thing is, I don't mind attention. I just find it incredibly hard to make eye contact. And then I feel like – I don't know how I come across to other people. I just know what I've been told. I don't know if someone can just look at me and think, Oh, no. No, that one's neurodivergent, isn't she? I feel like that's maybe something that I give off. But eye contact is hard. Talking to people is hard. But confidence has never been a problem for me. Yeah. So, I really don't know how that's – Is it part of my identity? I just know that it's real. That's – You're so good with words. I feel that what just came out of my mouth was utterly incomprehensible. So, your ability to find reason and meaning in what I just said is incredible. This is what English teachers love. Like, seriously. I would put down the most unhinged theories, like borderline conspiracy theories, on a whole paper, and praise my connection to the text when I've seen the book. Yeah. That's how I got 100% on one of my finals. It was great. I remember I submitted something that was like, I'm gonna chew the legs off of this chair, I'm on my way to your house to get your stuff, and my English teacher was like, I love it when people find meaning that's not actually there. I feel like that's a big part of us. Yeah. Music. Music is my life. I revolve around music. Music revolves around me. Yeah. And I revolve around people who make music. It's my world. And it's air wiggles. Air wiggles. Air wiggles. We have air wiggles moving through the air, entering our ears, making our little eardrum meat flaps jiggle, and then it makes us feel things. And that's wild. Yeah. I have synesthesia. You do? Yeah. So what type of synesthesia? You know what it is. Of course. As a musician, as a musician. So is it music to other audio things, or music to paved musical stuff, or is it like visual stuff? Like there are, it's one sense to another, and there are like six senses, so then six times six is 30. 36 senses. Thank you. Thank you. You'll have to leave me. I'm going to be in here if you need me. All right. We'll come to you. So 36 different combinations. You'll have to tell me what you're experiencing. So, okay, so there are a lot of different ones. Yeah. One of them is sound to color. Yeah. A lot of the sound is more opaque to color. Sometimes that can get difficult. Oh, yeah. With music and things, partnering with a band, because it's got like... I'd hate for you to come to my senior recital and just be like, man, that high note was sharp. Truth, woman. I can't. I couldn't see anything. You'll have to tell me if that's going to be a problem. It's kind of like, it's more like when you press on your eyes for a while. Oh, yeah. I did that so much as a child. Those are actually... Oh, my gosh. Side ramp. Forget that thing. All right. So, those images, that are formed when you press your finger into your eyes and hold them there, and sometimes it kind of gives you a headache, but those patterns behind your eyes are found in the first examples of writing, in the first examples of cave drawings. People were doing this thousands, hundreds of thousands of years before us, and it's the first things people are writing down, these symbols. You will find deities depicted by these things people saw behind their eyes. So, the most ancient depictions of God and wind, fire, these symbols, these shapes, because there are specific shapes that we do see. If you will study these patterns that show up in Celtic architecture, you will find it everywhere in ancient... Oh, it's so cool. Oh. I've actually studied that before. It's amazing. I know that they can't see me, but I just took off my glasses. That was so exciting. Yeah? It's kind of like when you... If you drop different colors of watercolor into a piece of paper, they all kind of like... When you do a wash and then drop... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Into each other. Is this your... Oh, I mean, this is my... That's my class, but I'm basically done, and I figure you guys are more interesting than anyone else in there. Also, I know you guys... Yeah, of course. You can listen in on our class. Yeah, so I was going to listen in while also studying for the hats. And it might also be interesting if you want to join our conversation. Sure. If you want to introduce yourself. Oh, okay. We are talking about how expressing identity has changed during generations. Is this being recorded? Yes. Oh, yeah. If you want to be a part of it. If not, we can just chop this part out and you can listen. Oh, my... How do you feel about having another interview? I... Well, it was not in the plan, but it's probably fine. I mean... Yeah. Sorry. No, you're fine. All right. And now, we also have Lee joining us. Hello. Lee, do you feel like expressing your identity is important? Um... In... In what way? Anyway, just physically, what we're talking about is, like, expression. Like, how people other... Oh. How you project. Yeah. I think it's... I think it's fine if you do it, so long as it, like, doesn't... like, harm anyone else's identity. Mm-hmm. So... I'm just trying to be, of course... careful on that line, I suppose, I guess, because, like... That's interesting, because I was not careful when I answered that question. I was like, absolutely, people should be able to express themselves. Yeah. I didn't even consider the fact that it could be harmful to others. Because, like, if you think about it, especially in this day and age, with certain states, everything builds that are basically against expressing oneself. It gets very treacherous when trying to do that. So, like... I'm afraid of this, seriously. I think it's important to recognize yourself as yourself. But... But also be respectful of other people's identities. Be respectful to others. So, like... Say you are a... Let's just say, for example, you are a Republican, right? So, like, you might have, like, a tattoo of... I don't know... Donald Trump. Oh, I was going to say a gun, but, you know... Yeah, that works. But, like... I bet there's someone who tattooed Donald Trump. Oh, I thought there were many. Yeah. But being respectful to... But, like, meeting someone who might be on, like, a different part of the political spectrum of view, just being, like, kind to them, and just trying to understand where they're coming from, I think that would solve... A lot of the world's problems. Issues, yeah, at least. I find it interesting that you took the question so differently than I did, because... I try to be diplomatic. Yes. My response was, I love wearing pretty dresses! Everyone should be able to express themselves in the way that they feel. And I think that it's really interesting that there are so many ways to answer this question. It's really wide open. Yeah. I choose the path of trying to please everyone. Sometimes that doesn't work. And I'm like, well, I guess I have to choose a side now. Yeah. How would you describe your identity? Hmm? Hmm. My identity, you say? I would describe my identity as being... Well, in, like, what sense? LGBTQ? Any. Any? It's wide open. Yeah. I went for gender identity when I started talking. So I tend to think I'm on the part of, like, he-they gender. Yeah. And... I think I identify as pansexual as well, because, you know, people are cool. People are cool. People are cool. Then, ethnically, I suppose I'm American... Celtic, I guess. More Anglo-Saxon. I didn't know that. Well, so my family comes... My dad's side of my family comes from the little dot of land known as the Isle of Man. It's right in between the British mainland and Ireland. Hmm. It's literally in that little strait. Yeah. In what way do you think you express yourself? Like, in clothes, you're out with personality, you're online. I mean, I don't really express myself in clothes that much. I just, frankly, I just wear what I feel like, and what's comfy most of the time. That's exactly what Dexter said. Yeah. But personality-wise, I just try to be nice to everyone. But also, a big thing for me is, like, I will probably stop talking to you if I don't find you interesting anymore. So, like, once you start having interesting... Once you stop having interesting conversations, I'm probably just going to be like, bye, and then move on. I have a social battery, and I'm not going to waste my battery on someone who... Yeah. Yeah. I've tended to think I'm more introverted, but I've also realized, hey, maybe I'm a bit extroverted with how much I like to converse with people, so I think I'm, like... Ambivert. Ambivert, yeah. I found that introversion and the disenfranchisement of people have no correlation, because... He was a social preacher. Mm-hmm. And I still got that 97% introverted on that test. You know the official test? It's, like, that company that makes you take when you go to work for them? Oh, really? With the INTJ, like, that kind of thing? Yeah. 97% introverted. Wow. That's significant. But I still enjoy talking to people who I find interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think just being able to be kind to someone helps not only them, but also you. Is there another question you had to ask me? Yeah. Is it important to you how other high school students view your identity? Hmm. Hmm. I wouldn't entirely say that, because I'm extremely neutral on a lot of things. So, like, again, it might... Because I'll probably tell them once I, like, get over my confidence issue. But, like, if they don't say that, it's more likely to be, like, forgetfulness or ignorance rather than, like, deliciousness. So I accept that. Mm-hmm. So... Mm-hmm. And this one... Answer this one yet, either. So this is for both of you. Has your view of expressing your identity changed over time? Absolutely. I have gone through phases. There was the dress phase. There was the screw dresses. I want to be respected. Oh, no. No. I still want to know more about that. Oh, yeah. Raised chickens. Had to go take care of chickens every morning. Never changed out of those work boots. That was the overalls, the bobbed hair, the... Oh, I remember that. I accidentally went to school with, like, my pockets full of eggs because I forgot to empty out my pockets before going to school, and I'd gone and collected the eggs until I was like, hey, anybody want some eggs? You can tell I was incredibly popular in sixth grade just handing out these eggs. Yeah. I wouldn't want eggs. Yeah. I wouldn't really say so because, for me, clothing is a lot more about function than fashion. So I tend to go with the thing that's most likely to be useful rather than expressive. Yeah. I mean, for me, I, yeah, it definitely has. I had a lot of issues back in grade school and junior high. I wanted people to like me, but then I was also scared of people. Now, I don't necessarily want people to like me or dislike me. I just, like, kind of want most people to leave me alone so I don't have to talk to people because people are scary, you know. But, yeah, it's something where I will go to them, but only once they're nice. I feel that, for me, it's somewhat an opposite issue where I do not care if people like me, but I still care about their opinion of me. Like, I don't care if you think that I am mean, but I want you to respect me. That's just me. Oh, a friend? No! There's a friend right there. It's a good boy. Where is he? I don't, that's, it's dead. No, it's not. It just moved. I'll go give him a kiss. No! No, no, no, no, no. No! It's not doing anything. Look at those legs. Those legs are thinner than... You can't even see the legs. They're so thin. I can see the legs. Oh. There you have it, folks. Another aspect of a sister's identity is you love spiders. I don't love spiders. Where did it go? It's still right there. It's not moving. No, it didn't. Yes, it did. Okay, well. What about you? Oh, no, you just answered that question. I'm trying to keep the conversation going, but it's not working. Is there anything else you guys want to say? Be kind. If you're going to respect yourself, do it with dignity and considering the dignity of others. Be respectful. And respect yourself. Oh, no, I sound like a morning PSA. Hey, sometimes it's not a bad thing. It's a podcast, after all. Oh, what's this for? Conf. Son of a bitch. No. Wait, but it's... Well, I mean, Otter, I have experience with Otter. Otter keeps recording. It just doesn't record the words. Oh, okay. It doesn't type out the words. It's a transcription limit. Yeah, I've worked with Otter before, and it can be a little irritating, but, you know. So you won't have to spider. I don't write. Okay. And, I mean, if you want, you can, like, keep the transcripts and, like, type out the words. Yeah, yeah. Because, like, you have the audio right there. Alright, well. But, yes. I have always, I do feel that you and I have had very different experiences with how we have gone through life feeling about ourselves. Because I always knew who I was, but I just have had different ways of expressing that same thing. So I do feel that things haven't changed. I've always been a surveyor, but I've had different ways of expressing my perspective. Yeah. Okay. Alright. It was fantastic talking to you. Yes, that was enjoyable. Yeah, yeah. And thank you for hopping into Dex's podcast. It was fun. Yeah. I just wish I had worn my clothes on. It's unfair how cold it is right now. Yeah. Alrighty. Let's get. I think that's about it. Alright. Alright. Thanks, guys. Guys.