SE2EP2Jacobs Dream: The Stairway to Heaven

The Divine Appointment podcast hosts, Elizabeth and Chris, discuss the series "Stairways to Heaven." They recap the previous episode on the Tower of Babel and how humans try to reach God through their own efforts. They talk about the importance of unity and using God-given talents for His purpose. They then read from Genesis 28, where Jacob has a dream of a stairway to heaven with angels going up and down. They discuss the significance of dreams and visions in Scripture and how they can be messages from God. They highlight God's promise to Jacob and reflect on times when they have left the land of God's promises but were brought back. They emphasize the importance of relying on God and His promises rather than our own efforts. Hey everyone! Thank you for tuning in. This is Divine Appointment podcast and we are so happy to be able to talk with you guys today. I'm Elizabeth Walker and this is Chris Cotney beside me, my brother. How are you brother? I'm doing good. I'm doing real good. As a matter of fact, I'm doing a lot better right now than I was about an hour ago. Well, actually about 30 minutes ago. Well, that's an improvement. Well, that's one way to look at it, right? Yeah, it's just that we, for everybody that's listening, we have went through over an hour of recording and once we got to the end, we was about to wrap things up and realized that something happened, evidently with a program or the computer or whatever, and it never recorded anything. So, this is like take ten. Yeah, and so we have had a lot of practice touching on this series that we've got as far as this episode too, but Beth, if you want to, do you want me to recap from last week? Yeah, that would be good. Yeah, okay. Well, last week we talked, well the name of the series is Stairways to Heaven and last week we touched on the Tower of Babel and how they built this tower to try to get to God. Yes, man-made tower. Yes, and man-made stairway. Yeah, you know, we do that now. We try to, by our own efforts and by doing things our way and what we seem is right, we do stuff like that to try to get closer to God as well. That is very much true, very much active in our daily life, actually. Yeah, because, you know, even God said, you know, look, these people are, if they continue to do what they do and they become as one or one accord, they can do anything. That unity. That unity. That's right, and God gives us tools. He gives us amazing tools. We all have talents. Yeah. God-given talents, and in this case, they use those talents in the way that God didn't want them to use them. Instead of using them in the way of being obedient and His calling, they use it in the way they chose to use it, to bring notice to themselves instead of using it how God would have them do. Yeah, and, you know, they did it. I think that as they was trying to get closer to God, that was trying to get up there with God, that was trying to see God, that they got so engulfed with trying to do, do, do, and have, have, have, you know, just do everything their way, that they lost track of the reason why they had the ability to do the things that they did to begin with. Right, or even the fact that they had the capability of doing it. Yeah, I mean, do you think that they was able to realize that they was capable of doing it before they all come together in one accord? I don't think so. Because can you imagine if everybody, thank you Lord, if everybody nowadays, if they got together and set aside all tradition, all man-made religion, set aside all the denomination, all that, and just focus solely on what the Spirit calls them to do. Can you imagine what we could have done and what we could accomplish now? A bunch of Jesus loving people together in unity, one mind and accord. Wow. I mean, the technology that we even have nowadays, you know, we can accomplish so much if we all got on one accord, in unity, listening to God, and doing what we feel like he wants us to do. That is so true. And not get caught up and, and, and do what, we don't need to get caught up with what we can do for God, and what we could do for this, and and how we can do that, but we need to get caught up with doing things with him. And I think sometimes we get sidetracked doing that. But that's kind of what we touched on last week. That was the stairway to heaven. It was man, it was man-made, and God had to step in. Now before we get to today's lesson on stairways to heaven, which is episode two, I'm going to go ahead and open this up in prayer, and then I'm going to read from our text, and we're kind of just going to let the Spirit flow from there. Okay. Father, we love you, we thank you, and we praise you for all that you've done. Lord God, I just ask that you let your Spirit flow in and through us. Father, I ask that you help us receive the message you want us to receive. Lord God, let us not say anything untrue, but just follow our tongue, Father. Lord God, I pray for knowledge, wisdom, and understanding, and insight into you, your word, and your character. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. I always love your prayers. Well, thank you. So, um, all right, so Genesis, she's making funny faces at me, and she knows I'm gonna get tickled. He's getting sleepy. I am getting sleepy. I am. It's, where we're at right now, it's pretty late. We're over an hour behind, because, like I said, we've done, recorded this, actually, we've really kind of recorded it three or four times, but one time all the way through, only to find out that we didn't record it. Right. It's hard to listen to something with no audio, right? Yeah, we kept hitting play, kept hitting play, nothing was coming out, and we checked everything, but we figured it out. So, all right, so we're going to come through Genesis chapter 28. We're going to start with verse 10. I'm probably going to read down to verse 22. Okay, yeah, so we're talking about Jacob and his dream. Yeah, Jacob and his dream, and the title of the series that we have, again, is Stairways to Heaven. Now, Genesis 28, verse 10, it starts off like this. It says, Meanwhile, Jacob left Bathsheba and traveled towards Haran. At sundown, he arrived at a good place to set up camp and stop there for the night. Jacob found a stone to rest his head against and lay down asleep. And as he slept, he dreamed of a stairway that reached from the earth up to the heaven. Can you imagine that dream? Wow, I have a vision, but I know it's not even close. I can't even imagine having a dream where I see a stairway up to heaven. It had to have been beautiful. Wow, and then it says, And he saw the angels of God going up and down the stairway. Wow. You know what I just seen? I just seen in that text where it says that God, that he saw the angels of God going up to heaven and down from heaven. Do you get it? Hmm, which means that, well, you know, in Scripture it does say that we could very well be entertaining angels unaware. So, wow, I didn't catch that the first time. See how God works. I didn't either. Wow. So, and one thing about dreams and visions and stuff in Scripture, all through Scripture I see dreams and visions and stuff that God's given people. Yeah. And these things that he's showing them either hasn't happened yet or he's trying to warn them of something or or something that hasn't happened or is not going to happen. He's just trying to send a message. Now, how that applies to us is the dreams and the visions that God gives in Scripture is a direct message to us as well. It's almost used like a parable for us. Yeah, which is the reason why everything's recorded. Yeah, so there's a reason why this dream is recorded. It's the reason why God wants us to read it. Yes. Yeah. More than once than not. There's a reason for everything. Yeah, so we see that God, that the vision said, or the vision showed Jacob, angels of God going up and down the stairway. Oh my goodness, I love that. Almost like they're taking messages from here up to there and they're coming down here, doing some work, going back home, coming back. It's almost like God is sending charge with them to protect us and like they're clocking in or out or whatever, you know, like a job. They're coming down in shifts, you know, and watching over us and keeping us safe. I don't know. I mean, they're his messengers too. They are, yeah. It's just in my mind, you know, I'm kind of just seeing the angels coming back and forth, back and forth. But I haven't seen, that was the first time that I noticed that, you know, the angels. Yeah, I didn't catch that either. Yeah, they're coming back and forth, you know. Well, verse 13, it says, at the top of the stairway stood the Lord. Can you imagine what that looks like? Oh man. And he said, I am the Lord, the God of your grandfather Abraham, and the God of your father Isaac. Watch this. The ground you are laying on belongs to you. I'm giving it to you and your descendants. So the ground that he's laying on is his because God gave it to him. So it's a gift, okay? Yes. Almost like a promise. Your descendants will be as numerous as the dust of the earth, and they will spread out in all directions, to the north, to the south, to the east, and to the west. And all the families of the earth will be blessed through you and your descendants. What's more, I am with you, and I will protect you wherever you may go. Wherever you may go. How many places? Wherever. Oh, wherever. Well, one day I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have finished giving you everything that I have promised you. So let's back that thing up biblically. He said that this land is yours because he gave it to him, like a gift, like a promise. Then he said, one day I will bring you back to this land, which means that Jacob ends up leaving that land. The land that God promised him. Right. How many times has God given us a promise, or a vision, or a desire that we've left? A lot. How many times have we left that land, and he brought us back? A lot. A lot. Like, I see a lot in my lifetime where I was living in that land, you know, in the land of God's promises, of his provision, of just experiencing his presence, and his miracles, and the things that he's doing for me. And I do remember leaving that land. Right. The promises he gave me. And I remember how much pain that it caused me to know that I gave up everything that I knew that I desired to have. And then you feel unworthy to go back. Yeah. And ask for him to restore. It's like a revolving door, you know. And I got in the habit of trying to do better, but focusing on only to do better, to make better decisions. And listen, don't get me wrong. There's nothing, there's nothing wrong. That's very important. It's making sure you make the right decisions. But the main focus is to build a relationship first. And if we have a relationship with Jesus Christ, then the decisions that we need to make, we'll automatically make. For the right reason. For the right reason. Not like the Tower of Babel, the people there who had built a man-made stairway. Yeah. Solely to gratify or bring praise to them, or to make them look good, and to be the better tribe on works, based on their works, from a worldly view. That's very important, too. Yeah. To think about when we're doing things. Are we doing it for the right reason? Are we really doing it for God, or are we doing it for ourselves? Well, it says right here that he will bring him back to this land. And that land is a promise that God gave him. Right. And I'm gonna jump into that just real quick. I'm gonna say that long, okay? Go ahead, brother. I remember when, at one point in my life, I was living for God. I was sold out to God. And I only wanted to do what God wanted me to do. I wanted to do what I thought I needed to do. What you thought. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so I got caught up with trying to build my own stairway to God, through my works, through my good deeds. It was almost like I felt like I deserved the grace that he was giving me, because of the things I was doing. Memorizing scripture, passing exams for scripture tests, and you know, stuff like that. And I got so caught up with that, that I lost track of the direction I was going, and why I was doing what I was doing. So I went to court. Now, this is years and years ago. But I went to court on something that I had done prior to this day that I went to court. And I was standing in front of that judge, in a three-piece Johnny Carson suit, with a Bible in my hand. And I was standing firm on the scripture where God says that for us to stay confident in this one thing, that he will finish the work that he started in us. Yeah. And I knew that God had given me a promise, a promised life, promised land, if you want to put it like that, you know. And there was nothing that anybody could tell me that would convince me otherwise, that I was going home that day. And as I stood there with my Bible in my hand, and that judge sentenced me, I had to exchange that Bible for a set of handcuffs. And I went to jail. And that's when... How did you feel about that? I can't even imagine. I was confused, and hurt, and angry. And I think that that is where God needed me to be, and wanted me to be, as far as in that frame of mind. Because scripture says that pride comes before the fall. I was real prideful with what God's done for me. Scripture that I had remembered, I thought that was enough. The more verses I could quote, the more godly I was. I was building my own stairway to God, through my own actions, you know what I mean? Just leaving one very important piece out, right? Yeah, yeah. And so I stood there, and I was so angry. And I will never forget, I remember looking out of that window, that little small window that they give you, that's kind of more of a tease than anything. But I remember looking out that window, and I've told this story before, but you know, God put my heart to just be open with him, be honest with him. Yeah. And so I was. I shook my fist at him, and I told him I was mad. I didn't understand. I was mad, and I want to know why he allowed this to happen. And you fast-forward years down the road, and that promise that he gave me, that promised life, I'm living it now. And I do believe that if he would have gave it to me then, I would have wrecked it. I wasn't ready for it. I wasn't. Timing is everything, and his timing is what counts. You know, I remember talking to you about that. For all y'all that don't know, he is very good at remembering Scripture. Well, I'm not. My memory is, it's not good. So, um, I had, you know, said something to you that day, one of the days, once you got home and everything, I said, uh, you know, I love how you can remember Scripture. I wish I could remember Scripture like that. And do you remember your response to me? Yes, I do. It doesn't matter how many times that you go through that word, it's how many times that word can go through you. Right, and you touched your chest, where your heart is, and you said, it don't matter if you don't have it in here. In your heart, yeah. And that has stuck with me. That has stuck with me ever since. And, you know, that's when I really realized, too, the true change in you. So, anyway, sorry, didn't mean to interrupt you. No, you're good. I mean, that kind of plays into everything, you know. I believe that, I believe that God allowed things like that to happen to get me ready for the things that's happening now. And it's hard to see that when you're at rock bottom. Ah, that is so true. It's hard, I mean, some people say it's easy to look up when you're at rock bottom. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. When you're at the very bottom, that's all you can see is the bottom. Because I was there. That's all you can feel is the bottom. That's all you can see is the bottom. That's all you can think about is the bottom. Beth, I remember times when I was at my lowest, where I didn't know if I was going to wake up the next morning. And it's not because of anything I was doing to myself. It's because the chance of what somebody might do to me while I'm asleep. I remember talking to you and mom, collect on the phones. For any of you that don't know, I messed up years and years ago when I ended up having to go to prison. And I done a substantial amount of time there. And I almost gave up hope and faith and everything. And sometimes God allows people to be in your life to support you. And I found that with my support group, with my family, that I could put my faith and their faith, if that's all I could do. Because my faith in God was weak. The expectations that I put on promises that I thought God gave me, that it really didn't. Because I wasn't ready for any of it. So every time I let myself down, I blamed it on God. But I remember being on the phone with y'all. And I would try to hear things from the background, like a dog barking, you know, or a door opening, or like if you was in the kitchen and I heard the refrigerator cut on. Small things like that to take my mind away from where I was. And just that little bit of just something out there with y'all. And I would just close my eyes and I would picture that. Now that right there, my friend, is being alone. But you know, I thank God for people who pray for you. Yeah. I think that protection, God had his hands all over you. There were so many people praying. No doubt. I'm a big believer in prayer, that's for sure. And the jails and the prisons, they're ugly. I don't know, I've not been on the inside, but you know, you hear a lot of people, you know, the overdoses and the different things that are happening now. But you really didn't hear, not to say that they didn't happen before, you know. Yeah, but it wasn't so, yeah. Not as bad, no. So it's just, honestly, it's by the grace of God that, you know, you're here, sitting beside me right now. Living the life that I didn't think I would ever have at that point. And the transformation, the reunification, all the things he's restored. I just, honestly, I like to sit back and just watch. Sometimes I just sit there and I'm like, man, look at the work that God is doing in his life. Not trying to make your head big or nothing, brother. It's okay. I know it's all for his glory and you being obedient. That's how we get there. That's what we're supposed to do. But see, that pain and rock bottom, being at rock bottom, and going back to this verse real quick, he says, the blessed, that the families of the earth will be blessed through you and your descendants. What's more, I am with you and I will protect you wherever you go. Did we just talk about that? Yes. Three or four times. One day I will bring you back to this land and I will not leave you until I have finished giving you everything I have promised you. You think he was just talking to Jacob? I think he had us in his mind when he was talking to Jacob. So, can I ask you a question? Yeah. I'm scared. Yeah. Well, right here it says, what's more, I am with you. I will protect you wherever you go. One day I will bring you back to this land and I will not leave you until I have finished giving you everything I have promised you. Now, I'm gonna read this next verse. I'm gonna ask you something. Okay. It says, then Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, surely the Lord is in this place and I wasn't even aware of it. God was there with me all along and I wasn't even aware of it. I got a story. Can I share it? Absolutely. You were just about to ask me a question, weren't you? Go for it. You didn't ask me. You didn't ask me first. Okay. Are you gonna forget the story? No. Actually, I can't forget the story. Okay. The rock bottom, how did you know when you hit rock bottom? I think when I hit complete rock bottom, I don't know, it was different. There was the time that I hit rock bottom and and then the Holy Spirit was working on me and I fell on cross and I was 19 years old. Then from 19 to where I am now, a lot transpired but also my there's been a lot of growth but not before the pain and the hurt and the trials and tribulations hit. So I think it can be saved and be a believer and love Jesus but not have that surrendered personal relationship with him that's meant to happen as you grow as a Christian and I think that he wants everyone to have that. One point in my life when I had lost my daughter in 2021. Is that when you realized you hit rock bottom? Exactly. Okay. When I say rock bottom, I mean it's when I realized that I had no control. So you know, being a girl, when I have issues that I ran through with through life, even in my adulthood, I would go to my mother for advice, for help. We have a great relationship. We've always been able to figure things out, right? Well in the situation when I lost Brianna or when she ascended to heaven, she's not lost I know where she's at. I remember feeling the Holy Spirit over me but I also remember feeling, okay I'm in this situation and all this hurt and this pain and there's nobody that can help me. Nobody on this earth that can help me. There's only one that can help me and that's God and I remember feeling that knowing that he's the only one in this pain, this huge amount of grief that could do anything about it. That could give me what I need to survive. It was survival mode for me at that point and it didn't stop there but that's when I realized, God I need you over everything. Yeah. You are my everything and you are the only way I can survive this. So I have to depend on him so much for that everyday mercy and grace for sure. Yeah. But that's where it came to the point of where I was like, okay now this is a relationship. You know, I think God put this in situations or allows us to feel pain and allows things to happen so that he can get the gratification and the glory that he deserves out of it for us to realize that he's the one that we need and we have to seek him. You know, I see yours was, your pain was a lot different than my pain but I see some similarities through the outcome. I think that with our worldly pleasures and the things that we get caught up doing here on earth, you know, even when we get caught up doing things for God and trying to be the best we can be and then getting caught up with having this and having that and the worldly pleasures and even in my life, you know, when I was backsliding and when I was doing wrong, I think that through all the worldly pleasures, God allows us to get in a point to where it causes us more pain that outweighs them pleasures and that's how we learn. Definitely. Because, you know, that's why we, when we discipline a child, oh thank you God, when we discipline a child, we inflict pain, discomfort when we ground them or give them a spanking because we remember pain more easier than pleasure and I think that God allows us to reap some of the things that we do to teach us a lesson. If it wasn't for my rock bottom, I would have never come to realization of who God says that I am. I would never know what I could overcome. I would never know what I'd be able to live through and I would never know what God would pull me through. And would you be as thankful? No. Right now I'm thankful for freedom because there was a point in time where I didn't have it. I'm thankful for a meal every night because there was a point in time where I didn't have it. I'm thankful for family because of the family, some of the family members that I've lost and I'm sure that you can relate. Yes, that's true. So I think that when God told Jacob that surely when Jacob, well when Jacob awoke from his sleep and he said surely the Lord is in this place and I wasn't even aware of it, I think that he realized that after God showed himself to him in that dream. And I think that when we look back at what we've went through, that's proof that God was there all along. We never knew it. That is so true. Can I tell my story? Absolutely. Okay, before we go to the next verse. Yeah, go ahead. Okay, so on that point in May of last year, as you know, I had, I was involved in a horrific car accident and I remember on impact in the car sitting there, you know, it was different from when I lost Breonna because I felt God instantly all around me, carrying me, holding me, he had me. But in the car wreck it was different. Okay, I knew I wasn't alone. Yeah. But I didn't feel the same. Yeah. But I remember sitting in the car waiting on them to get me out of the car because I had, now I was completely coherent, but I had a collapsed lung, I messed my knee up, broke leg, and I broke thumb. So as I was, as I was laying there waiting for them to come get me, I remember hearing a woman boldly praying in the middle of the road, loud. And the whole time I was laying there waiting for them to get me, I could hear her. And that brought so much peace to me. You see, I never thought I was alone. Yeah. But God was there. Mm-hmm. And I wasn't aware of how he was there until I heard her boldly praying. And you know, God has a way of just reminding us, hey, I'm here all along. Exactly. And he works in different ways. In this situation, he worked through someone else. But, and that's the point, God is there. When you feel alone, you may feel that way, but God is there. Amen. So that's my spiel. Okay, back to you. All right, so after Jacob woke up and he said that surely God is in this place, and I wasn't even aware of it, then he kind of changes up and he says, but he was also afraid. That's Jacob. Jacob was also afraid and he said, what an awesome place this is. It's none other than the house of God, the very gateway to heaven. Wow. The next morning, Jacob got up very early. Now look, side note, I wonder why he got up early. Ain't no way. I'd be up already. I want to go to sleep. Yeah, I mean, if, listen, if anybody that's listening to us right now is honest with their self, knows that if they have a vision or a dream from God, they're gonna get up pretty early and try to figure out what in the world it meant and what God wants them to do. My eyes would be open. So he took the stone that he rested his head on and he set it upright as a memorial pillar. Then he poured olive oil all over it. He named that place Bethel, which means house of God. Although it was previously called Luz. And then Jacob made a vow. And he made this vow after God showed him a vision, after he woke up and realized that God was there. And I just thought about something. Does God show Jacob what that vision meant? He never does. Nowhere in the text right here does he tell Jacob what he meant by that vision. We can draw a conclusion. I think that's what God wants us to do. Yes. I think God wants us to learn a lot from that vision. Absolutely. As well as Jacob when being that he was in a position he was in. It says, then Jacob made a vow. If God will indeed be with me and protect me on this journey, and if he will provide me with food and clothing, which we know he will. Absolutely. And if I were turned safely to my father's home, which is the land, then the Lord will certainly be my God. So I don't think that Jacob really meant that if God does this, then he will serve God. I think Jacob is saying, look, I'm serving God. And proof to that is that he's going to give me the food I need, the clothing I need to make sure I make it home. And this memorial pillar I have set up will become a place for worshiping God. And I will present to God a tenth of everything he gives me. I mean, as if God didn't already own everything that he gave Jacob anyways. True. And I think that was the point of the dream. And I think Jacob grasped some of that, basically letting him know, hey, I'm here. Yeah. You know. I can't, I can't even tell you how many times that God has looked out for us and has kept us safe. And we didn't even realize it or didn't even look. For example, for example, about God being places that we don't think he's there or that we're not looking for. You know, sometimes, you know, when we don't see him, it's not because we're always blind. It just means sometimes it just means that we're not looking for him. So look at Paul. The apostle Paul on his way to Damascus, he never seen or looked for God. He never searched for God. But God was there. The whole time. And we can go back and we can look in so many areas where people found God or had an encounter with God, but wasn't even looking for him. Didn't even realize he was there. That is so true. And the whole time he was there. Well, he promised Jacob. He promised Jacob in his dream that he will always be there. And he would never leave him until he fulfills all and give him gives him everything that he promised him that he would give him. That's powerful, very powerful and true. You know, and if we look at so what does the dream mean? Well, I could say the latter represents the connection between God and man. Yeah. It demonstrates God's desires. He does. He desires an intimate relationship with his creation. Yeah, that's true. He is the one who initiates that. Okay. For connection, conversation, and relationship. Hold on. Connection, conversation, relationship. Okay. Do you mind? No. Okay, look. So when it comes to them three that you was just talking about, and you said connection, conversation, and what was the last one? Relationship. Relationship. This is what I'm seeing right now. All right. So connection is like us being connected with God through his word, right? Right. Once we get connected to God, then we can have a conversation with him. We can have a conversation with him without connecting to him first. And then we after we're connected with him, and we have a conversation with him, then we can build a relationship. It's the way I see it. And I'm glad that you brought that up. God made us in his image and his likeness. Well, if we're made in his likeness, it means that we're made and created to be like him. So that being said, let's look at our characteristics and our natural desires. Because that's something that God put in us. And it's part of him. It's what we have in common with him. And let me explain. So you said connection, conversation, and relationship. So just start to think about like the relationship. I mean, the connection that a man and woman would have. Yeah. So they see each other afar, they notice each other, and there's the connection. But if you don't go any further than that, then that's where the connection ends and nothing else begins. But if they engage each other, if they get to know each other, then that's striking up conversation. And then there's another date and another date. There you go. Exactly. And then that leads, because the connection spiritually would be in God's word, the conversation will be the prayer. Same way with a relationship with a man and a woman. So now, after the conversation, that leads to a relationship. And that relationship, once it's built, it leads to obedience. It leads to receiving promises that God's got for us. And that actually leads to us seeing God more because we're looking for him more. Right. So, but anyways, go ahead and I'm not going to, well, I'm not going to say I'm not going to interrupt you. Well, and as you know, we know who the latter really is. Yeah, the stairway. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get that into the next. Oh, yeah. But it's Jesus. You can't get to the father without going through him. That's right. Okay. So, God reaffirms the covenant of Abraham with Jacob, promising that the same lessons and promises given Abraham would be fulfilled and carried on through Jacob. And from this lineage, the nation of Israel will be born. And out of the line of Jacob, get this, if you didn't know, would come the promised Messiah. Well, who's that? You know who that is. The one, Jesus. Wow. You know, and that's how God's plan works. All things work together for the good of those. That what? Are called. That love God. Yes. And are called. According to purpose. I get it right on that. I told you I wasn't good at memorizing. No, you had it. When you were talking about Jacob and Jesus being the lineage from the lineage of Jacob. So, look, again, let's back that thing up. Biblically. So, Jacob had made mistakes. No. Yeah. True story. True story. And God brought Jesus from him. God used Jacob. Okay. Jesus is from the lineage of David. Some text calls him the son of David. David made mistakes. A lot of them. A lot of them. Well, let's back it up even further. Abraham. Not Abraham. Abraham. The guy that father Abraham had many sons. Okay. Yeah, that guy. Well, there's another side to it that scripture and that's how I love. That's why I love how scripture does, because it also tells us the weaknesses of these mighty men. They don't leave nothing out. So, when God used Abraham and considered Abraham's faith as being righteous. The same token, Abraham had slept with a lot of other people besides his wife. Got them pregnant. Hence the many sons. Yeah. Got them pregnant. With the thumbs up go ahead from his wife. Did you hear about that a lot in the old older? No. Yeah. Yeah. And that happened a lot. But, but God used Abraham there. And if we want to fast forward a little bit. God used Paul. Which we can only imagine the things that Paul did. And Paul teaches us not to build our own stairways to heaven. Because he tells us. And he gives us examples on how to live according to the freedom that God's given us in the book of Romans. It says he asked a question like a rhetorical question. Then he answers it. It's in Romans 6. He says, What shall we say then? Shall we go on sinning that grace may abound? Certainly not. How the ways that are dead to sin continue to live you no longer in it. Things like that. He can say stuff like that and drop the mic and walk away. Yeah. And he lived a life to where he was completely undevoted to spreading the gospel. But it wasn't always like that. Tell me about it. Well, you remember when he was he was standing there and he watched Stephen getting stoned. I mean, that was brutal. That's but I mean, there's no telling how many brutal murders and stuff that he had a party in or watched or whatever. But it was different with Stephen. Yeah. Because in scripture, it says that Jesus was standing at the right seat, the right hand of the Father. And I challenge anybody that's listening to this to find anywhere in scripture anywhere else where it says that Jesus is standing at the right seat of the Father, because there's not any. It was almost like Jesus stood up and was fixing to put boot to the ground and come and get him and to save Stephen. And it's almost like God was like, wait, no, not yet. Because that guy standing next to him saw fixing to change his name and change his life. And sometimes when we wonder why. Oh, thank you, God. Sometimes we might wonder why God don't stop certain things. That's a prime example. That is a prime example. Sometimes when we lose things or people that's important to us and we wonder why. That's a prime example. God's like, wait a minute. Because I've got plans for this situation. And I'm going to use them and the plans that I have for you. Yeah, and I can look gray. Oh, yeah. Most definitely. I can speak on behalf of that. But man, he's so good. Yeah. And I'm glad that he is the big picture. I'm glad that he knows the big picture. Amen. And but see, the thing is, is Paul actually he went through the same thing as far as pain and everything is speaking about the time when he was standing there and he watched that piece of land was getting on my nerves. I was on his table just now. It was driving me crazy. Look, he's got hands that are not idle. I can't help it. I've got to be doing something with my hands. I don't want to play with the cord. Okay. But anyways, we are. I need to get me a little stress ball. Squirrel. But the thing is, is, you know, Paul, he was. He understands what mean you was talking about earlier about the pain that was going through. Well, if you go back and look at. What he witnessed with Stephen. And not long after that. Paul was talking about and 1st Corinthians 12. About this storm that is the Senate side. We all have them. We do. And I think that God. And didn't tell us about what that was. Because I don't think it matters. I think that God wanted us to take this as an example of how Paul was handling it. Because Paul, you know, he said the things that I know that I should do, I find myself not doing them. And the things I know that I shouldn't do, what did you do? He finds himself doing them. We can so relate to him every day. Yes. Every day. And he said he had that thorn in his side. I think it's a collaboration of where he was. Didn't with guilt and shame because he was living for Christ at this point in time. Because not long after this, he had ascended to the 3rd heaven and a paradise. Verses 1 through 5. And so after he experienced that, he started talking about the thorn in his flesh. And I think that he started remembering all these times he killed all these people, witnessed all this pain. And I think God softened his heart and he thought, you know what? The regret. Yeah. But then he said that he'd give it. And by him making that statement, I think that he needed the grace to deal with that thorn. Because he said that thorn was a messenger of Satan to keep him humble or from being conceited. So I think that a lot of people, they wouldn't understand that concept if they didn't know God. And I think that God's grace is sufficient for him. And by him making that statement, I think that he needed the grace to deal with that thorn. So I think that a lot of people, they wouldn't understand that concept if they didn't know God. Absolutely. Yeah, that's so true. Yeah, the first chapter of Romans, it says, For the preaching of the cross to those that perish, the ones that's dying, it's foolishness to them. But us that's saved, it's the power of God. If we stand on the biblical truth, that listen, this pain, it's okay that we deal with this pain. It's okay because it's a teacher. These stairways that we try to build to try to get to God on our own accord is not going to work. Nope. It's not going to work. We build a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. If we love him, then we will automatically obey his commandments. It's not a condition of our love for him. It's a result of our love for him. It's that passion. When you love someone, you care about them and you want to treat them right. You want to do the things that are pleasing to them. And that's exactly how we should be with them. Not to say we're not going to make mistakes. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, that's what Paul said, that God's grace is sufficient. And that's why God said, I will never leave you. I will never forsake you. I'll always protect you. And I will bring you back to that promised land that I promised you. And I will not leave you until I give you everything that I promised to give you. Amen. Oh, gosh, that's so good. Okay. We're running out of time. Yep. Yep. Wow. And I have drank way too much water. I'm on my fourth bottle of water right now. Water's good for you. Yeah, I don't like it. Look, guys, we appreciate you all so very much for tuning in. We hope that the words that God has laid on our heart to share, that it's blessed you. And I want to let you know, hey, if you have any comments or content that you'd like us to share, you know, go to our Facebook page, Breathe Ministry, or you can send us an email through Breathe Ministry at yahoo.com. We would love to hear from you. Thank you all for your support. And I'm going to let Chris, if you would, pray us out of here. He likes to mess with my hair when I'm talking, guys. Yeah, before I pray, we are in prayer consistently about our show, about where we're going with it. We are eventually going to go live on Facebook and be able to take and address certain comments that's made while we're live. A lot of you already have one of our cell phone numbers. You can text us. If you ever hear any subject matter that's been brought up that you want us to elaborate on or talk further about or even just take and make a separate series about something, listen, we all are sitting here and just conversating about different things that God is showing us as well as y'all. We want to hear from y'all. We want to know what God is showing y'all. Because God still speaks. Wow, God still speaks. Yes, he does. And that'll preach. But anyways, I'm going to pray us out. And listen, thank y'all so much for tuning in to our podcast. We want y'all to be able to come and listen to us every Saturday from 2 to 3. That's right. And until it grows, we're trying to get some other platforms and we will address those as soon as we get it up and running. But until then, I want y'all to know that we love y'all and we do appreciate y'all. Father, we love you and we thank you and we praise you for all that you've given us, for all that you've done for us. Thank you for loving us in spite of ourselves and thank you for doing it the way that you do it. Father, help us not lean on our own understanding, but help us acknowledge you in all our ways so you can direct our path. Thank you for your mercy. Thank you for your grace. Help us be more mindful of not building our own stairways to get to you, but help us look to you through Jesus, the author and the finisher of our faith. We thank you and we love you. In Jesus' name, amen. Thank y'all so much for tuning in. And don't forget, we love you and Jesus loves you and guess what? There ain't nothing you can do about it.