Interview with author Lisa Tolk - Eden

The author, Lisa Tolk, used to work in politics but switched to teaching. She wrote her book, Eden, years ago but didn't publish it until recently. The story is about a naive princess who discovers the truth about her perfect island and the modern world. The character development of the protagonist, Chaos, unfolds as the plot progresses. The book is set in the 1980s, which helps maintain the privacy of the island and adds to the story's uniqueness. The use of a Walkman is a hint to the time period. The author aims to preserve the surprise for readers when they realize the story isn't just a medieval one. So we are now recording with Lisa Tolk, author of the book Eden. So let me just tell you that I was pleasantly surprised in your book here, and so we're going to get to the book in just a second, but Lisa, I was reading something about your bio from your site out there, so you actually came from a couple of different places to where you are today. So tell us a little bit about your background and how that helped you write or get started with Eden. Okay, sure. Yes, I worked, first I worked in, as far as my career, I worked in politics for 13 years and got a master's in political science, but I got kind of jaded about politics, all the ethical gray areas and a lot of like stress, and I decided to leave that profession, and then when I was kind of deciding what I wanted to do next, I felt like teaching would be more of a profession that I felt like was more of a service to the community, and I felt like that was something that I wanted to do, and my bachelor's degree was in English literature, and so I did the teaching credential stuff, and then I taught, I've taught English for 11 years, and I'm just finishing, I just finished my last year because I want to write more, so I've retired from teaching, but I taught AP language and composition for, you know, in high school, and so that was, so the way that kind of feeds into Eden is that it's got kind of a mix of some political intrigue and some history and things like that, and even some political philosophy in there as well, and so that's how kind of the English and the politics background kind of combined. So I actually wrote the original story like 13 or 14 years ago when my daughter was in high school. We had been reading a lot of young adult literature together, the Twilight series and the Hunger Games and things like that, and I was like, I think I can write something, you know, young adult oriented that my daughter would love, and so the idea was writing something that my daughter would love to read, and so I wrote, I had the idea for the story, and I wrote it, and she loved it, and her friends loved it, and some neighborhood and things like that, but it was just a manuscript on paper, you know, it was just like, it was typed out, it was, I didn't do anything about publishing or anything like that, and then it was just kind of a fun thing and kind of a goal and something to accomplish, and then it kind of sat on the shelf while I taught English, so for like, I became a teacher, and then I was absorbed in that, and when I'm in something, I'm like all in, so I was all in for teaching, and that just sat on the shelf, and about a year ago, my daughter was like, Mom, you have to publish Eden, like, I love it, it's such a good book, and so I went, I was like, okay, maybe I'm ready to do that, and so I went back to it, and I'm like, man, this needs a lot of work, like, now I'm looking at it as an English teacher and through a different lens and a lot of time passing, and so that's when I started like, revising and rewriting and, and all of that, and then got a professional editor and things like that, so that was kind of like, the journey that brought me to this point, so for me, this was kind of a brave thing to do to self-publish this after all of these years, I had to get out of my comfort zone and the idea of like, you know, putting, I felt very vulnerable putting like, my words and my language like, out into the world, and so that was kind of a big deal for me, so I named my publishing company that's me, Brave Girl Publishing, to kind of like, represent that, and also I wanted to have protagonists that are kind of those brave girls that do something courageous and brave and kind of find out who they are and follow that. Yeah, yeah, so you know, again, I, just hearing just a little part of it, I can tell you right now, I can see where the politics got involved, I mean, things like the treaties, and mentioning how an island like Eden can be hidden from the world, makes a lot of sense, so I think that's going to be something from a background that people are going to be intrigued when they hear an interview and hopefully be inspired to go ahead and read Eden. Let me ask you something about the writing itself, so, I mean, I'm a writer, you know, and I've got, my fifth book will be coming out probably in about, I would say two months, and then we'll finish the series here at the end of the year, but I'm always intrigued on how character development actually takes place, and how authors decide to develop their characters, so how did you develop chaos, I mean, what did you decide to do, did you create the character before the story, or was the character kind of unfolding as you're writing the story? I feel like a lot of it happened, like, unfolded as I was writing, but I definitely, like, felt like I wanted a coming-of-age story, where she kind of went from kind of really innocent and naive, and not much experience, like, with the world, and kind of just enveloped in what had been created for her, like, she's a naive princess that's been very protected, and believes that this island that she lives on is everything, it's perfect, it's idyllic, and it's not until she's faced with something very different where she comes to what she calls, and what they call the self-lands, which is based in greed, and power, and just self-centered, and what you come to find out is that's America, that's the modern world, that's the rest of the world besides Eden, is the self-land that's absorbed in this selfishness, and has kind of destroyed them, you know, their world, and their society, but it's really the modern world, and so when she faces that, and she has to reconcile those things, what she's been taught, versus what she sees, and experiences for herself, then that's kind of that coming-of-age story of, like, who am I really? Like, now I have to face, like, who I was, and what I loved, and the truth, and learn those dark-seated secrets about Eden, and so her character is kind of based in that, this idea of the innocence, the naivety, but inside her is also kind of this power, she's smart, she's, you know, she can figure things out, she can learn, like, she loves to read, she absorbs the political philosophy that she reads in this expansive library that opens up a whole world to her, and so I wanted to see that, I wanted to have a character that could experience that growth, from naivety and innocence, to learning about herself, learning truths about where she came from, and then what kind of a leader or queen does she want to be, so that's kind of how the character development occurred, and so as I was writing, that kind of unfolded with the plot, the character was developing as the plot developed as well. One of the things I want to do is, I want to protect your book, because I, when I was reading through it, I got a jolt when the reality was that, hey, this is not a medieval story, this is what looked like a medieval story that crosses over without having to go through a, you know, a wormhole of some sort, all of a sudden she's thrusted into this modern world, and so I want to, I want to preserve that, so we're going to probably focus, I think I mentioned the email, I'd like to focus maybe in the first part of your book, not because the rest of it's not any good, I just want to protect it, because I think every reader deserves that jolt when they realize, because it is very shocking, I mean, almost shocking at the very moment when you get to find out who Drew is. I'm still laughing at this. I do want to know, it's not a big deal, I'm not even going to ask you in the interview here, but of all things, you have Drew with a Walkman. Why would you choose a Walkman, when there are so many other devices they could choose? That is supposed to be your hint, it's a, you know, teaser that this is in the 1980s, so you get little hints of that as it goes along, and that's very important to the setting, because there needs to be not the technology of cell phones, there needs to be no texting, because things unfold, so we're still in that era of, where kids are more independent, their parents aren't tracking everywhere they're going, and they don't, you know, necessarily know what their kids are doing all the time, and also there's not social media talking about this island, and everybody knows about it, and everybody's talking about it, and things are out there, and there's not, so it helps maintain the privacy of Eden, but it also helps maintain, like, what happens in their journey and their romance in Owls Head, Maine, that it's this small beach town, where things like that can't be preserved, and there is some privacy, and you can't just pick up the cell phone and be like, hey, what's going on, like, you know, are you in trouble? Like, let me come and help, you know, it's like, there's not all those interventions and things, so I wanted it to be set in the 1980s, and so I give little drops, and the Walkman is one, and then you'll have other things, like when they're listening to the radio, it's Madonna, and he talks about how he's not really into, you know, everybody's, Madonna's all the rage, but I'm more into journey, and he changes it to a different station, and, you know, his car's a Dodge Colt, and it's old, so like, just little, like, teasers here and there of, like, this is the modern world, but it's not now. It doesn't have all that technology that we have now, where everybody would know about this island, and then the island does have some protections, kind of, and you kind of learn more about that during the course of the story, and you'll learn more about that in the sequel, like, how does Eden stay, you know, more private, like, in this modern world, but part of it is that this takes place in the 1980s. Yeah, I mean, and I got that as we progressed through. I just found, of all things, you decide to use a Walkman, which, you know, is very iconic. I happen to be watching, about the time that I started reading, every once in a while, my family and I will pick a series of movies, and so we happen to pick Jaws, of all things, and it's pretty much the same time, so, you know, it's just, for some reason, for me, it was just amusing. I actually googled, found out that they're still selling Walkmans, and in fact, I think I mentioned in the email that in 2023, there was a rumor that they may actually revive that branding, because the branding is very iconic, so the timing of using something like this is actually pretty good. Yeah, and so I wanted to do something that, like, what are some iconic things from the 80s that people could, like, pick up on, and I felt like the Walkman kind of encapsulates, like, that era a little bit, so. Yeah, it's actually really good. Well, listen, it's about the time that we need to start the interview, so I gave you a couple of questions here. I am going to ask you some of these, because, again, whether you did it on purpose or not really doesn't matter. It's the way the story goes, and I think the way that you handle certain things, especially in the very beginning, it's exceptional. It's really good. Your awareness of space really caught me. I don't know if anyone ever commented that to you or not, but we're going to be asking you about the space. We'll actually start kicking this off here, so let's go ahead. Let's just pause for about, I said a minute, probably 10 seconds. Let's just give a break here so I can have a break where I can cut off the interview and get that all ready. Okay, so let's just get 10 seconds. All right, Lisa, I am ready to start the interview, and I'm going to pause for just five more seconds because I have to put an intro into it, and now we start. Well, welcome, Lisa Tolk, here to our interview as we talk about your book, Eden. You're listening right now to the Escape Pods media broadcast, and we're excited to be here with you, Lisa, so thank you for taking the time. Thanks for having me. We're just excited. For those of you who are just tuning in right now, we are talking about a book that's called Eden, and Eden has some really spectacular activities and a storyline that is worth talking about, so the first thing I want to do, Lisa, let's talk about the way that you start your story. I mean, immediately, it's about shots that are heard, and when you go to the description, in fact, I'd like to read just a couple of sentences really quick here. The shots were deafening. She heard them all around her as she covered her head with a pearl white silk sheet from her bed. As the cries within the palace reached her reluctant ears, her eyes filled with tears. This can't be happening, she whispered. I can't do this. I mean, you didn't even give anyone a chance to breathe immediately. You're into your story. What is it about that beginning that was something that you felt that's how you wanted to begin your story? Well, my hope was that the reader would immediately feel kind of how Kaia felt, where she, it's chaotic. It's a little bit chaotic, so the character at that point is realizing that she's in the palace, and she's just, and this doesn't really spoil anything because it happens so early in the book, that just before her father has been tragically killed, and so she's already in her room mourning and just, you know, very upset and kind of in turmoil, and then the chaos erupts in the palace as well, and so she can't handle it. So I thought in media, in media threads would be like the best thing to just be in the middle of it with the reader, that the reader is like, what is going on, because that's how Kaia feels, like what is going on, you know, what is happening around me, and just kind of be thrust into that situation, kind of like with the character, where you're trying to figure out while she's trying to figure out what is going on here. So that was kind of the idea. That's again fantastic, because it did draw me in. In fact, that's one of the reasons why I decided to read the book, because I always look to see how long does it take for me to wonder, well, what's going to happen next, and usually I think when that happens, people are going to be drawn to your story. So I think Eden is going to be one of those books that people are going to, at the very initial stage, they're going to be drawn in because just that first paragraph, you're not curious, okay, well what's going on, what's causing her to feel some doubt, and the shots and the disturbance, the tears are coming, and you know that this is not good things. There are some bad things that are about to be uncovered, and you do a good job in getting people through that. Now another thing about your book that I love, and I think people who love fantasies of all sorts, they always look at pace, right, so there has to be a continual pace, but there has to be some things that are rushed, some things that you do not rush because you want the story to unfold and allow people to, you know, to have the time to actually do that. So I see that in your story. So tell me something about the pacing of your story. Why is it that in the very beginning, it takes multiple chapters to kind of paint this picture of her surroundings, of the people that she's encountered, and then there is this long lapse between her trying to escape the island, and by the way Eden is an island if you haven't heard it already, but there is all of a sudden a slowdown of her pace, almost like you can feel the agony that she was going through in that escape. So talk a little bit about the way you had the pacing. Yeah, I felt like, so there are two settings in the book, and one is on Eden and the one is in Owl's Head, Maine, and so I wanted to be able to kind of develop that setting in those first few chapters, and as far as like the escape scene, I wanted it to be kind of like the reader was doing it with her. Like I said, so I wanted to capture like things that were going on in the palace, what she would hear, what she would see, what she would feel as she's going down the halls, like what the palace was like. So I was trying to also capture things about the setting and give the reader some little teasers or ideas of like what this world is like a little bit before she leaves that world, because once she leaves that part of that setting, we don't get back to it for a while, and then it creeps back in. We see glimpses of Eden, and we see things about Eden and some scenes from Eden throughout the story, but there's really a chunk of time where we're going to leave Eden, and I didn't want to leave it until I felt like the reader had a little bit of a foundation, kind of felt a little bit of what Eden was like before we left it. Yeah, I mean, again, well done, and so that brings me to the second question, or maybe it's the third one by now, but we want to talk a little bit about spaces. I commented to you off the air here that the way you handle the description of spaces is exceptional, and I think a reason why it's important here is because you see a movement, a movement that isn't just about where the character is going, it's also the movement of what brings a character from point A to point B, and so, you know, you get the sense that Kaeya is a vast castle, right? I mean, there's corridors, and there's sounds, and there's ways that you can get around without encountering anybody until finally there is that encounter, and she has to exit out. So it's interesting that she is moving from what would be a cavernous castle, now she goes to even a bigger space. She goes into an enchanted forest, and in fact, actually gets lost out there. So talk a little bit about how you're handling these spaces, because, you know, again, when you see this migration or this movement from the castle to the forest, to the beach, and then to a dinghy or rowboat, you get this sense of this vast ocean that's even bigger. So she is moving from a large castle to a vast ocean, and that movement seems to coincide with some of the revelations about who she is and what she's about to encounter. Yeah, I feel like it's interesting that you brought that up, because it's not something that anyone has brought up, or even something that I, like, fully have had explored in my mind, but, like, after thinking about that, I think, like, one thing is the vastness kind of can represent her confusion, the things that she doesn't know, the things that she has yet to kind of discover, and then I feel like a lot of times the small spaces are kind of more internal. Like, a lot of times she withdraws within herself, like, there are things that she doesn't know, and so it's almost like a hiding of sorts. So you see, like, at first she's hiding in her room, then she is in the vast castle, then she's in the forest, and she's lost, and then she's in the small space before she escapes the forest, and then she's in the vast ocean, but she's in a small boat. So kind of going from the vastness of discovery, of the unknown, of exploration, of being lost, and feeling very small, to the internal, like, struggles of, like, who is she? What is she supposed to do? What are the dark secrets and the truth about Eden? These are all things that are kind of more of an internal struggle, and then you see as she builds out of the character, how that changes over the course of the novel, where she does meet that discovery, and she is more self-aware, and does gain more knowledge, and learning, and does learn more about the truth about the island. Yeah, and so when I look at that, I mean, and again, take a look at the space in the movement here. So you're carrying the story, and you're unveiling parts of the story, as she moves from one space to the other, right? So while she's in the castle, her best friend, Erin, I believe it's, is it Erin? Yeah, so she encounters her, who's actually rescuing her, taking her away from what would be certain death, and takes her out from the castle, and then you get into the vastness of forest, where now she meets this mysterious stranger, who legend says, you know, he's a demon. So he's there to protect the forest, then somehow she makes it, or he leads her to the beach, and then she gets to this boat. So the interesting thing is, you didn't, and again, I think what people are going to take from this, I hope, is there is a good character development, that you're giving enough time, and part of what you're doing, revealing who Kea is, is part of her environment, because she then goes, not only from a rowboat, that is tossed around by a storm in the ocean, but even in her rescue, when she finally makes it to Owl's Head, she is carried by Drew, who is the person who finds her, and he takes her to a room in a lighthouse, a small room, and so this entire movement from vastness to small areas, and then her world starts to increase, because she gets to have these experiences. So again, I think it's a pretty good story. The other thing I wanted to point out, and again, character development is so important in a book. I think people who are going to hear this interview, they will like the fact that when they invest their time in this, you get to know who these characters are, in a real meaningful way. They're fully developed characters, and what I like also about this movement, is you're moving from big spaces and small, is that you're starting to see the layers that Kea had, they're slowly being peeled off. I mean, physically, literally, she exchanges a robe, they give it to Aaron, so they could see, like, it's her, so they can pursue her while she goes into the boat. She gets into the boat, she discovers that, hey, everything gets wet, she is slowly, you know, the privilege that they had before is no longer there, munching on soggy crackers and bits of cheese, and all these kind of things. So there's a question here. In part of this movement, you wanted to kind of strip Kea from all of the things that she knew and experienced, and maybe even take it for granted, but you wanted her to, when she gets to that lighthouse, to have maybe a newfound beginning. Am I reading that correctly? For sure, definitely a new beginning, and she goes from, you know, naive and innocent, and really sheltered, to kind of opening her eyes to things that she had never experienced, things that she didn't know, misconceptions that she had about the world, about who she was, and she's really discovering kind of her own identity in the story as well. So it's a layered story, it's not just about her kind of learning the dark truths of Eden, it's a romance, it's her discovering who she is in this world, it's about her becoming empowered, and about overcoming fear and developing courage to do things she never thought she could do. And so that's kind of the layering as far as the character, that it's not just a surface plot, but there's a lot going on, like, within her and who she kind of becomes by the end of the story. Well, just so the people listening to the interview, I'm purposely not going beyond the beginning, because there is a transition that you need to experience, so I'm purposely going to focus on just this actual beginning. But I found also some really good irony. I mean, just think about this here, right? So Eden is a place of kings who had thousands of years of history, and everything organized. I mean, there's all these keepers, right, keepers of the law, keepers of tradition, and you have these named people who are responsible for it, and she is now leaving that ordered life to a place that she didn't know she was going to go, but she wound up in the Southlands. So just talk a little bit about what it means, these people in the Southland, versus the traditions of Eden. Yeah, so Kai has been raised in this traditional monarchy, and that's in Eden, and they've preserved this for hundreds of years because they believe that the rest of the world is, and they call it the Southland, is based in greed and power and only cares about themselves, and they want nothing to do with that. They want order, they want tradition, they want peace, and so they've been taught to despise that, to never go near any of it. And she ends up, when you read the story, she ends up on those very Southlands she's been taught to despise, and you learn as a reader that that's actually the modern world. It's America, it's the modern countries. So we're not back in medieval times, we're actually in the modern world. And the setting actually takes place in, this second setting is in Owl's Head, Maine, so it's a small beach town, and that's where she really kind of discovers that maybe not everything that she's learned about the Southlands is true. She has to kind of learn these things for herself, and it's a world very different. She's never experienced any of these modern things. So you go on this journey with her where she's for the first time eating chocolate, the first time listening to music on the radio, the first time riding in a car, the first time, you know, she experiences all of these things and you're doing it with her, and that's kind of a fun, light-hearted part of the story where you get to see these things through her eyes, and kind of the excitement of all of it. But then the underpinning of still, well, where did I come from? What's the history? And you learn that there's really some dark things and some secrets and some things that she didn't know about where she came from, that are kind of exposed as she goes through this journey of self-discovery. And so you have these two very different settings, and I think that kind of brings a richness and kind of a uniqueness to the story, where you have this traditional monarchy and you want to know more about Eden, but then you've also got this great beach setting of Owl's Head, Maine, and all these things about America and things that build up to the 4th of July and the things that happen, kind of the excitement there. So you've got these contrasting settings throughout the book, and the sequel will take place more on Eden. So you also, at the end, are kind of more like, I want more Eden. So there's that to it as well. So that's kind of the... Yeah, I mean, it's just well done. And one of the things that I love is the irony of the fact that here, Eden has all these things in place, right? The traditions and everything organized. But she's leaving it because it's become disorganized, and she's rescued by a young man who has history, tradition, as a son of a caretaker of a lighthouse. So he has tradition, and he's actually providing some order that she is longing for because she has lost it. So again, the irony of the fact that the very people that were saying they were protecting the law and the order and all that, is actually breaking it, while it's being preserved by the guy who's supposed to be part of the group that, you know, only cares about themselves and greed and everything else. So kind of an interesting irony. So let me... Go ahead. From chaos to order when it's supposed to be, or order to chaos. And so you definitely have that ironic twist there. Yes. Good for picking up on that. I love it. I love everything about it. One of the things, let me end it here, because another point, one last thing, and then we'll end our interview here. What I wanted to do is to get you to talk a little bit about the fact that what's also great about your book here, that it appeals to not just coming-of-age people, but anyone who loves this kind of genre of stories. And I think that one of the things you've done also is you made it seem at the beginning that it's like a medieval tale with a twist out there, where no, it's not really a medieval tale, it just seems that way because of these traditions and the protection of the island. So tell me something, one of the things about this book, why should it appeal to anybody who likes that kind of genre, and why you are writing in such a way to make sure that people who love that kind of story will be grounded in the stories and the series of Eden? Yeah, it's interesting because at some points when I was trying to decide what genre is this really, it's young adults, but it's also got fantasy, it's also got romance, it's also got adventure, and so it's got a lot of things going on, and so my hope is that it appeals to a wide audience. Where it's going is, and with the fantasy, it's not a high fantasy story, it's more like God's, and I really wanted this, this was important to me, that I wanted it to be more mysticism, spirituality, you're not really sure, like there's not full-on magic, but there's something going on here, and that's something that's going to build, and so in the sequel, you'll get, you'll learn more about that mysticism and what kind of some of the underlying themes there are, but I also like it to still kind of be like, you're a little bit like the readers trying to figure out, like there's not full-on magic, but there's, there are things going on, and so that's kind of something that will unfold, but you get things like her being able to still connect spiritually with her father and kind of hear his voice, you've got different things with Eden and what's going on there as far as like the forest, and so you've got kind of these little nuggets and little pieces that will continue to, that puzzle to be kind of more filled in as the series goes on, if that makes sense. It makes perfect sense, Lisa. Thank you for taking the time to allow me to interview you, and I want to make sure that people know where to find it, so we will be hosting this interview, we'll provide links to Eden so they can go directly on Amazon, they can also look you up, Lisa. So at this point here, let's conclude our interview. I'm with Lisa Tolk, the author of Eden, and we are looking forward not just to this book, but for the continued series. Thank you so much, I appreciate you having me. you