podcast interview

Nithya and the speaker work for Boston Healthcare for the Homeless, a non-profit healthcare network in Boston that provides healthcare and hope to homeless individuals. The organization helps with post-op care, hygiene, medication, wound care, and other healthcare needs. They also address other issues like safe sex, safe drug use, and provide resources for patients after they leave the program. The speaker emphasizes the importance of trust and understanding the struggles faced by homeless individuals. They share stories that challenge biases and highlight the need for change in the healthcare system. The speaker discusses the misconceptions about homelessness and how medical issues can lead to homelessness. They also mention the challenges of private healthcare and the lack of affordable housing. The speaker emphasizes the importance of harm reduction strategies, such as clean needle providers, in saving lives and reducing the risk of diseases. They acknowledge the difficulties in fin So, Nithya and I work together for a company that's called Boston Healthcare for the Homeless, and it's a non-profit healthcare network that runs throughout greater Boston. And their general mission statement is to provide healthcare and hope to people experiencing homelessness in Boston and beyond. So, I'm Nithya, I worked as a wound care co-op, but the professional term was a practice assistant co-op at Boston Healthcare for the Homeless, specifically the McGinnis House. And after my co-op ended, I worked as a per diem respite aide, and that's what I continue to do now. What I would hope for the goal of Boston Healthcare for the Homeless, and what I kind of try to do when I'm there with patients, is kind of give them an environment where they feel like they can trust the people that are working with them to create their healthcare plan, and trust the environment that they are in to provide them safety and protection while they're going through something like this. The main reason why Boston Healthcare for the Homeless kind of started is because when you're homeless and you have to get post-op care, it's really hard to do those things when you're out on the street, because you can't shower, it's really hard to have proper hygiene, you can't even use the bathroom. You have to go either to places to do that, or just find somewhere on the street to do that. It's overall just really hard to take care of yourself, both mentally, physically, and emotionally. I feel like Boston Healthcare for the Homeless really tries to give people an environment where they can do that, where they can take care of themselves, you know, while we also provide them care to do so. And then just in terms of programs that they've had, I feel like aside from the basic healthcare that they provide, like giving people medications that they otherwise may not be able to afford, or just providing them plans for healthcare treatment, and just overall hygienic necessities like showers, deodorant, soap, and wound care, as we know. I feel like they also try to make sure that any other problems that maybe aren't involved in their healthcare treatment plan are also kind of managed, or at least talked about. Like, as you know, one of the co-ops, Finland, that we worked with, she's part of the Cat Tech team now, and they just kind of help provide safe sex pamphlets, and just kind of information about that, safe drug use pamphlets, and also more information about that, giving them clean needles, giving them like cotton balls. And when we have patients leave Boston Healthcare for the Homeless, too, similar, like, or what I was talking about with the wound care thing, is like, we also give them week-long wound care materials, and we give them places to go after they leave Boston Healthcare for the Homeless, so that they can continue either getting their wound care done, or can get the supplies that they need to do it themselves. And I think that's great. I think that's like, I think that's one of the greatest things that they offer them. It's not even just care when you're specifically at the program. It's also managing that care moving forward, and prevention, and just overall actually talking to them about everything, rather than just being like, you need to do this, and this, and this, and this. Going into Boston Healthcare for the Homeless, being thrown into that kind of environment, when you haven't really experienced anything close to homelessness, or know anybody that has experienced homelessness, it's really different, because a lot of these patients, you start to develop really trustful relationships with, and they tell you things about their life that you would have never, ever thought of before. I feel like, not that we were in a bubble, but that like, these were things that we knew of, but never really saw, and we never really saw happen to other people. After seeing that, I feel like it just changed my entire view about the healthcare system, especially in the United States. And it just really challenged the biases I had, and the preconceived notions I had about the healthcare system, and it just kind of reminded me how desperately it needed change. You think you understand the extent of the problem, and you think you do what you can to help, but you don't really get it until you actually speak to people experiencing that, and hear their stories, because it's so shocking, especially when people tell you how they ended up homeless, because it's never what society tells you to think, like, oh, they lost their job, this and that. I feel like that reminds me of a lot of stories that I've heard as well, like, it's never, it really is never like, oh, they lost their job, or I feel like Americans, yes, they love this, like, oh, work hard, play hard, like, if you work hard, you'll get everything you want in life, and capitalism will treat you well, and everything like that, but it's never that, it's never like, oh, these people didn't work hard enough, or they didn't do anything, they were just lazy, like, that's never the case, so many of the patients that I had, they went to college, they were supposed to do their thing, and it was, like, most of the time, I think it was always just, I had a medical issue, I had a medical issue, and I couldn't pay for it, and now, I am forever in debt to this random hospital that decided to give me treatment, and I didn't want it, because I knew I couldn't afford it, but of course, they were like, no, no, like, don't worry about the treatment, like, it's fine, like, don't worry about money right now, like, we just want you to get better, it's never like, oh, they didn't do this, and they didn't do that, it's like they had these things happen to them, and unfortunately, the system just doesn't care, it doesn't care to help these people any more than giving them medical care, past that, all the finances, all the housing, all the care that they're going to need afterwards, they just don't have it anymore. Yeah, a lot of the time, like you were saying, it's like, medical care, they don't necessarily really want or agree to, but they were told it would be taken care of, don't worry about it, and then the ruggage was put out from under them, and then they're just left trying to pick up the pieces and figure something out. A lot of it comes down to, like, the healthcare system in this country also, like, private healthcare is just super targeted towards over here. That reminds me of this story from one of the patients, he's in a wheelchair, and he was crossing a crosswalk, like, in the middle of the crosswalk, and he got hit by a mail van, so it was, like, a huge impact, he got thrown, and a police officer was standing at the corner of the street, and he looked over and saw him, and was like, oh, thank God, like, someone could help me get back up into my wheelchair, and, you know, help him out. The policeman comes over to him, and is like, he doesn't really say anything at first, he just kind of looks at him, and the dude is like, oh, did you see what just happened? He was like, yeah, I did, but you probably don't have health insurance, so you probably shouldn't even go to a hospital anyways, I would just walk it off. The guy in the wheelchair was, like, super, super injured, he, I think he fractured a few ribs, broke his leg, and I think he might have punctured a lung or something along those lines, like, obviously needed medical treatment, obviously needed someone to help him, especially because he's in a wheelchair, but the cop just saw the whole thing, berated him, basically, and then walked away. Again, it's such a systematic thing, it doesn't even come down to an individual's choices in their life or, like, a moral failing or anything like that, like, even if you're blaming someone for getting addicted to a substance, which is kind of, like, super uneducated, but even if you were, like, I don't know, like, there's just so much going against people who don't have money in this country, especially in, like, a city like Boston. I feel like people just forget that these are all just issues that affect everybody. When you are addicted to a substance, it's not just the feeling of wanting to do it that you are addicted to, it's quite literally your brain chemistry changes to revolve around the substance. In the cycle of wanting to do more drugs, you want to feel this way, and it's not just a feeling, it's quite literally your brain chemistry, like, Clean needle providers are one of the harm reduction strategies that a lot of places like BHTHP try to implement on the street, because it really can save lives, like, you can't really expect a person who's using to just quit cold turkey, but adjusting to the new environment and the new environment can really save lives. And I think that's one of the things that's like, you can't really expect a person who's using to just quit cold turkey, but adjusting the way they use and making it safer, even just out of, like, a cleanliness perspective, it can reduce HCV transmission and HIV outbreaks. So, like, battling the problem of homelessness, you have to go in steps of what's most urgent, and for a lot of people with substance abuse issues, the most urgent first step is reducing their risk of death when they're using. It's trying to make a way for them to use whatever their drug of choice is safely. And then you can get into, like, medical care and detoxing and therapy to try to help them become clean. The first step in doing that is clean needles. And they try to find housing for them in Boston, but it's pretty difficult because, as you know, like, the housing prices in the city are insane. They're through the roof. And the affordable income housing is just, like, there's not enough of it. And the demand is super high. So, it's kind of like a lottery system a lot of the time. And there's nothing for the need. Yeah. There's... Imagine, for people that are not even looking for housing, but are also looking for jobs that would take them after they get housing, and are also looking to get clean or manage whatever medical needs that they have. Like, I cannot even imagine how difficult it must be. It must be insane. It is. Yeah. No, that's a good point. Boston's, like, a very interesting city for this problem because of the, like, population of young people and college students. Because most of the city is college students. And so, when they come in with, like, a lot of the schools here are super prestigious, expensive as fuck, when expensive... As heck. As heck. The landlords know, like, mommy and daddy will pay for whatever price they put on an apartment. So, they can, like, gentrify literally everything and make, like, insane absurd prices for old buildings that are, like, pretty much in really ill repair. And there's just no consequence for it. Like, there's no, like, legal cap to any of that. They can pretty much just charge what they want and raise the rent however much they want. So, that's part of it. And also, with the job thing, like, companies... And so, I can't imagine trying to get a job, like, say, if you don't have a college degree in Boston because the competition is already insane for people with college degrees, you know? Oh, exactly. And then, on top of that, like, besides the issue of, like, homelessness and stuff, it's, like, with the economic, like, wage gap between, like, the rich and the poor just widening over time, of course we're going to have more homeless people. Like, I think... Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm pretty sure you're the one with the facts, because I don't remember. But I'm pretty sure from last year there was a 17% increase in the amount of homeless people. And, like, 17 maybe doesn't sound like a lot to people who are in STEM, like us, but it's a lot of people. Like, when you're considering, like, individual amounts of people, it is insane how many people are homeless right now. And then, on top of that, you're looking for jobs and stuff like that. The jobs that are going to take you, they're not going to even pay you enough to afford the rent on your place, because we're in Boston, and Boston doesn't have cheap apartments. Like, most... Pretty much everyone I know here is in college. We're forced to move, like, to the outskirts of the city a bit to find, like, more affordable housing, even though it's not affordable. So, for people who need to get to appointments or, like, have, like, post-op care, like you said, need to pick up medication, whatever, if they get a house all the way out in Jamaica Plain, like, that's a huge trek, especially if they don't have a car. Like, public transportation is super unreliable. If they're in a wheelchair, it's not like they could walk or anything. So, that's also just a huge barrier. Like, the housing, I think a lot of it just has to do with housing. Like, I read an article that was saying it's not necessarily a problem of, like, homelessness or substance abuse as much as it is a problem of affordable housing, and I think... It's, like, if you just provide homeless people with housing, I'm literally reading this, like, word for word, but homeless people were provided housing as a first step towards a road of stability. Like, housing is considered the first step in stability because nobody's going to hire you if you don't have a home. You can't get a bank account without an address because they're not going to give it to you. Honestly, you can't do anything without an address. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, battling the problem of homelessness, you have to go in steps of what's most urgent, and for a lot of people with substance abuse issues, the most urgent first step is reducing their risk of death when they're using. It's trying to make a way for them to use whatever their drug of choice is safely, and then you can get into, like, medical care and detoxing and therapy to try to help them become clean. The first step in doing that is clean needles. Yeah. That was kind of, like, the rise of masking tasks specifically. It got much more intense after that because no one had anywhere to go, and masks, obviously, is close to, like, a lot of services, such as our company, and, like, all the methadone clinics are in that area, too. BMC is in that area. Like, social worker facilities are there, too, for, like, people who need housing, I think. So, it makes sense that people are, you know, in this area, but I wonder, I wanted to ask, like, describe what you've seen around there because we kind of walk through the area on our way here. Like, obviously, homelessness is very concentrated in this area, specifically, like, where we work and where the food pantry is and everything like that, and I have a lot of feelings about this, so I will try to keep it as short as possible, but the reason that everything is so concentrated in this area is because a lot of the privileged people, like you and me, and everybody else who goes to college here, we, like, and the landlords that run the buildings have pushed everybody out. Like, the reason that everybody's over there is because that's the only place they can go, and then on top of that, too, it's, like, they, like, I remember one of the key things that came out of Michelle Wu's whole thing where it was, like, oh, there's, like, so much drug use over there and so much. you you you you you Homelessness over there. It's, like, well, there's a lot of homelessness and drug use everywhere all over the city, babe. Unfortunately, the only reason you're seeing it so much is because you have a buttload of cops in that area, and they are arresting people non-stop for dumb stuff. Like, you, the same reason, like, these people are concentrated over there, and the same reason they're getting arrested so much, and the same reason that there is, like, a prison over there is because all of these cops are quite literally just putting, like, they're purposely placed there. Like, they are placed there on purpose, and it is for the homeless people that are over there, and it's ridiculous. It makes me feel, like, babe, it's a threatening presence. It's, like, it's kind of, like, I don't know. They set up their cars, and they're, like, oh, don't do anything wrong, because I'm here. Like, of course that's going to, like, cause escalation. Like, if there's a cop right outside where you live waiting for you to do something wrong, anyone would feel pressured in that situation, and that's just going to lead for, like, unnecessary fights, and, like, I don't know. I don't know. It just feels super, like, not productive at all. No, for real, like, it's- Also, I like that you babed Michelle Wu. That was good. I didn't even mean to do that. It was good. But, like, I feel like the same thing that the Boston government is doing is the same thing that they've done over, like, decades of, like, administration. It's just that they are purposely just trying to sweep the homeless population's, like, issue, like, under the rug. Like, you have five- over 5,000 people that are homeless in Boston. That's ridiculous, and you want to take those homeless people, a lot of which that have settled on the street and made the street their home, and just stay? Like, they can't have encampments here anymore, and you don't want to give them a place to go. You have, like, and I know a lot of people, they were like, oh, but they're just doing so much crime over there. Oh, you mean that they're doing the drugs that they've been given to do? Because, one, most of them are recovering from being on painkillers off of being, like, victims of the healthcare system. Two, on top of that, they're just surrounded with other people that have been doing drugs. And then three, they have been put into an impossible situation. A lot of people struggle with chronic homelessness, and you just don't want to give them the ability to cope anymore? Like, of course they're doing drugs because they have no other escape. They don't know what to do. It is impossible to deal with a situation like that, and most of the people I know cannot even begin to fathom how to deal with that situation. So, of course they're doing drugs. Of course they're trying to escape the reality that they're in, because they don't want to be here. They don't want to be living on that street, but they have nowhere else to go. It's crazy. So, yeah. Anyway, that's how I feel about it. No, that's good. That's good. That's good. Okay. It's great because I ask you one question, and then you cover every other question I have on my list, so I don't even have to ask them. Like, it's all just, like, you know. All right. Oh, no, it's great. It's actually really good. It gives me a lot of sort of goals. I'm glad I've been able to talk about this a lot, because I was really nervous. I would have nothing to talk about. I'd be like, oh, yeah, I worked there. Yeah, it's less on, like, what the company is like. I think it's more of what needs to be done. Okay. Let me see. Let me see. So, what unique healthcare needs do individuals experiencing homelessness in Boston typically have? I think it's not really one specific thing, but it's more a combination of things. Like, I've seen a lot of patients who experience homelessness in Boston specifically. They suffer from drug abuse. They suffer from mental illness. They suffer from hunger, starvation, and not really being able to trust the environment around them, which may not actually seem like a healthcare need, but it is when you actually think about the consequences surrounding that. And then, on top of that, they just suffer from a lot of things that you wouldn't really think of. Like, for example, I had one patient who, you may remember this, actually, but he was the one whose, like, ankle tendon was, like, showing. He came in with maggots on his wound. And it was because he worked in construction, and his shoes would get so wet and would just rub against his ankle, and he just couldn't do anything about it. And stuff like that, you know, you just don't realize, because they're homeless, they don't have the ability to take care of things like this. Okay, sidebar, distrust in the medical community is super common among populations of homeless people. How do you go about establishing trust with patients at HCHP? I feel like it's just as simple as introducing yourself. I feel like so many healthcare professionals forget to be like, hi, my name is, I've never met you before, or I've seen you around a few times, but I didn't really introduce myself. So sorry about that. My name is blah, I do blah. What is your name? Oh, I can see by your chart, your name is this. Tell me more about your story. When did you get here? And it's literally as simple as that, because I think it's hard at first to navigate the boundary between wanting to learn more about them, but also not wanting to overstep a line where you're asking too many questions and kind of intruding on their lives. So I think it's, honestly, it really just starts with small talk, who like introducing yourself, like bonding over something silly, like one patient, I know that absolutely hated me, and I still have no idea why. He was playing solitaire one time, and I was like, oh, you're playing solitaire? And he was like, yeah. And I was like, I play solitaire too. And he was like, I bet you're not good. And I was like, oh, yeah, solitaire round right now. We both pulled out the solitaire apps on our phone, and we played it as fast as we could. I'm just saying I won, but it was just something as simple as that, you know, like obviously it's hard to talk about solitaire and be like, oh, you like the queen of hearts? I like the ace of clubs. No, you can't do that. But like, it was something like, you know, just I took like five minutes out of doing wound care to play solitaire with some patients that I had, and like, I never really saw them again. Sometimes I don't want to just be sitting at the desk, like, you know, it's like a fun little thing. And honestly, I think some healthcare workers think like establishing trust has to be super like by the book, like, you have to say this, this, and this, and like the perfect type of speech as to not like offend. But honestly, when they do that, they just sound like robots, and there's nothing more dishumanizing than just a healthcare worker literally in their gloves, talking as sterile as they look, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, freaky. So it's literally just like, treat any any patient you have in any hospital doesn't even have to be like, a facility like ours, just like, treat them like they're people like you would your friend like you would anyone and you. Transcribed by https://otter.ai Transcribed by https://otter.ai Transcribed by https://otter.ai Transcribed by https://otter.ai In education, in your opinion, how do we reduce stigma and educate people on this issue? And get them to care because a lot of people don't care. You know what I mean? I think it's really hard because it's, it's stuff. Like, I think the people that don't care about things like this are the people that are too privileged to realize that this is an issue. It's the people that like, don't have to worry about this because they don't like, it's not like, personally and independently. It's not their issue. Sorry. But I feel like the only thing that I can actually think of is just like bringing this issue to the surface. When especially in a time right now where we have things like social media and like texting and like, where it's so easy to communicate with other people. It's so easy, like, just like the Palestine-Israel conflict, you know, that became like, it's been an issue for so long. And out of nowhere, I don't want to say out of nowhere, because that's not true. But like, it blew up. It blew up on social media. And then like, similar to that, like the genocide in Congo blew up and the genocides in all these different countries blew up. Like, people, people were talking about this as an everyday conversation topic now. Like, this isn't just like, oh, this is like a thing happening. This is like a, oh, we need to act. And it became, it came to the point where, like, I feel like the best thing to talk about, like, in this case is like, the Black Lives Matter movement. Because when it came to that, if you weren't acting, people were embarrassed to be seen with you. Like, if you, if you weren't donating, if you weren't actively showing these things on your social media profiles, if you weren't going to rallies or had the ability to go to rallies and weren't, then people were making fun of you. Like, if you were posting selfies during this time, people were like, oh my god, like, that's so embarrassing. And I don't want to say, like, that's what we should be targeting, because it's a little extreme, but it's also so necessary. Because when you're in a time where quite literally genocides are happening, and there's 5,000 homeless people roaming the streets in Boston, the city that we live in, and go out in, and communicate with all of our people, like, you know, go to school in, and work in, and people aren't talking about this issue, it just kind of, you just forget about it. I feel like- No, you ignore it, honestly. Yeah. It, like, it gets to the point where, if it isn't a thing on social media, or you aren't seeing flyers or stuff about it, you just forget it's an issue, especially when you don't have to worry about it every day. And it's just a selfish thing to say, and it is, it's, oh my god, it's so incredibly selfish to say that. But it's also true, like, when you're talking about the people who are going about their lives every day, and of course they see homeless people, and they're like, oh god, like, that's so sad, like, I should do something. Most of the time they won't, because by the time that they remember to do something, or get to a point where they can do something about it, they forget. They, like, they forget that they can, like, you know, give a homeless man on the street five dollars, you know? They forget that, oh, like, next time I'm at the bank I should take some cash out so I can give somebody, like, even a dollar, you know, or buy somebody a meal. It just, like, gets to a point like that. But I feel like my biggest thing is, like, I think we are so lucky to be in a day and age where social media exists, and these things exist, and I think it's just important to, like, if we find out about an issue, to at least talk about it, or air our grievances about the issue as often as we can to the people that we know, or talk about things like this, so that more and more people are becoming aware. Right, no, that's a very good point. Like, the social media activism stuff, like you said, was, like, super needlessly intense at times, and I think a lot of the time it's super performative and, like, superficial, honestly. Yeah. Even if that's, like, the root of the problem, like, people are posting these things without actually believing it, they're still posting it, and more people are still seeing it. So even if it has, like, a superficial root to it, which is just, like, checking your Instagram stories, like, at least you're seeing it, and that's awareness, and that's kind of like our newspaper nowadays, because no one reads the paper, you know? Like, as sophisticated as it is, it's actually, like, super important, and it's honestly the most, like, powerful social tool in our generation, you know? Oh, yeah, for sure. Oh, and talking about performative social, like, activism and everything, too, oh my god, like, I hate it. I hate it so much. I think performative activism is so ridiculous. Like, when you... I'm not gonna talk my stuff right now. I was gonna say something, and I'm not gonna say it. I will say something a little bit more general, though. It's when you are actively contributing to the problem and post things on social media that are, like, oh my god, like, free Palestine, yay! It's like, okay, yes, like, free Palestine, but also fix the things that you're doing, you know? It's like, she's got the spirit, but nothing else besides that. Yeah, right, like, why am I seeing... never mind, never mind. No, I hear you. It's a little bit too specific if I start saying things, so I'm not going to. Yeah, no, it's true, though, and, like, I don't know, as silly as it is, as much as I hate social media and I just want to delete it all and, like, throw my phone in the river, like, it's so important, also, and I think our generation is so different than others because, like, we're actually wanting to see change because we're very frustrated, and our missions or whatever, like, we can easily organize because of social media. Like, other generations didn't have that privilege, you know? Yeah, definitely. So, it's like, we do actually have an ability to change social issues, especially homelessness, if people just, I don't know, act on it. Yeah, I think it's also just important to, like, you know, besides, like, passively, like, posting things and stuff, like, in terms of, like, acting, it's like, it's even texting Congress members, you know? Like, there's so many platforms nowadays where you can just, like, type in five numbers and say, text my Congress person or whatever, and, like, you can send a message so fast to be, like, hey, maybe don't do this because, have you considered how ridiculous it is? And a lot of the times, it's really hard to do those things if, like, if there's not a whole bunch of other people doing it, but I always like to do it just because it, first of all, it eases my conscience that I actually did something, and then, two, it's like, okay, maybe, maybe there aren't, like, a thousand other people doing this, but maybe they'll see this and be like, oh, heck, like, one person thinks this, I'm sure a whole bunch of other people think this, too, you know? You hope, and you can only do, like, what you can, you know? Yeah. Um, even, like, on a smaller, well, yeah, I feel like, bro, I feel like everyone needs to band together and send Michelle Wu, like, crazy hate messages, might be the wrong word, but low-key, like, she needs to be humble, because I don't know if anyone's, like, telling her, like, girl, you were, you were so miscalculated in everything you're doing, but even on a smaller scale, like, I think we should even, like, do stuff at Northeastern, like, because our school is a pretty large community, you know, of, like, oh, it is, yeah, definitely, but, like, there's a community fridge on St. Stephen Street, I believe, like, even just restocking that with, like, I don't know, get, like, a can of peas the next time you go to CVS, along with, like, your, like, I don't know, toiletries and shit, and just drop that off. Yeah, right, like, and I love that people that go to Northeastern. Like, one of my professors said in class the other day, um, it's, like, a neuro class, and we were talking about, like, mental health stuff, and then, like, someone was asking questions about masking casts and things, and she said, like, really quickly to our class, like, everyone, just buy a few pairs of socks and just keep them in your backpack at all times, and, like, give them out to anyone who needs them. They don't even have to ask you for anything, just if you see anyone who needs socks, just give them out. You don't have to talk to them. I feel like I try to purposely go to the bank and take out, like, certain amounts of cash and, like, at least, like, $5 bills. I'll try for, like, $1 bills sometimes, too, just so, like, if somebody asks me for $2, like, I can give them. I don't have to be, like, because I know some people, like, nowadays, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like, I don't have to, like,