The BIG 40

The Good Marriage Podcast is hosted by Swift and Nameless, who discuss various topics including turning 40. They clarify that they aren't giving relationship advice but rather sharing their experiences. They talk about their own feelings towards turning 40 and reflect on their lives so far. They discuss childhood memories and the passage of time. They also mention the concept of a midlife crisis and feeling out of touch with society. They both emphasize the importance of staying active and taking care of their bodies. Welcome to the Good Marriage Podcast. I am one of your hosts called Swift, and I'm here with my partner, who is nameless, he's nameless for now. We might, we might join him in your name at some point. Well, that is the name, you're going with nameless, you're going to call him nameless. Okay, so we're your hosts, Swift and Nameless, on the Good Marriage Podcast. We are married, and this podcast will focus on everything topical that we experience in our lives, ranging from our topic today, being turning 40, the big 4-0, to politics, relationship dynamics, family, everything and anything we can think of. I think we're the only podcast who picks their topics out of their hats. Yeah, well, why the Good Marriage? I mean, we, do we have a good marriage? Are we giving people advice on how to have a good marriage? No, we're not really giving relationship advice, we're just sharing our thoughts and our experiences in the context of a marriage. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, don't take advice from us. Yeah. No, don't. That being said, I do think we have a good marriage. Yeah. Fairly decent marriage. Yeah. I mean, we happen to have some podcast mics. Well, recording, you know, gear. Yeah. We're like, well, why don't we, I mean, we always have conversations. And we just thought that let's share it with whoever would be willing to listen. Yeah. Right. We chilled, a little bit chilled. We, as you said, we're not dispersing advice, marital advice. I mean, we're using fairly new words ourselves. Yeah. I don't think that we can tell people how to live their marriage and how to have a successful marriage. I think I would, I would bury myself before I told someone how to have a good marriage, because I'm still stumbling myself and finding myself, you know, which is our topic today, right? The big four of turning 40, you know, and what that comes with, you know? Yeah. So you turned 40 fairly recently. So it must be fresh to you. It's a fresh experience. And from my perspective, it seemed like it wasn't a desirable experience. It was something that was just happening to you and to your mind. But it didn't seem to be anything you were excited about. And it's strange, because when I think of turning 40, in a couple of years, I don't feel unsettled or worried about it. And also for my mother living through her 40s, and she seemed to be having the time of her life. So it, I've never, I've never really been able to wrap my head around the terror that seems to be turning 40. Yeah, well, in my, in our defense of the age mates that turned 40 with me, in my circle, certainly, you know, we've never been the type of people that celebrate birthdays, you know, we've, I mean, I've never, up until one of the guys turned 40. Yeah. I never attended any of my friends birthday parties. You know, we, I mean, for goodness sake, we hardly have any photos together. Yeah. In any setting, you know, if there are, I mean, we've been friends way before phones had cameras. And even when they did have cameras, they were very poor quality. So there might exist a photo somewhere in this world, the universe of us somewhere, but it would be a shock to all of us, you know. So this is all to say that we are not, and I certainly am not the type of person who considered birthdays something to, you know, jump up and down for, you know, and be excited over. I mean, of course, you know, when, when the day is close and then you think about your birthday, you know, you still, you do get that feeling that, oh yeah, it's my birthday. And yeah, you expect, you know, people to recognize, you know, when, I mean, when everyone could share in it from my perspective was when I was on Facebook, you know, and it would pop up that it's my birthday and people write on the wall and say happy birthday, and then I'll try to make a list to remember who wished me happy birthday so that when their birthday came up, I would also wish them a happy birthday and also who didn't wish me a happy birthday so that I wouldn't wish them a happy birthday. But that was never a successful exercise because, I mean, I'd forget, you know, I'd forget and my birthday is really late in the year, you know, so I'd have the first 10 months of the year, basically. And then, you know, a whole lot of people's birthdays come before and then you have to keep this list, you know, and, you know, it hardly ever worked out, my strategy. But all of this really, in our defense, we're not the type of people that celebrate our birthday so that would account for our lack of enthusiasm, you know, more than it being a moment in life where we were like, ah, we're turning 40. Yeah. Yeah. Do you, how did you feel before turning 40 though, leading up to, you know, the day? I, honestly, it was normal. I think the only sense of the day or the occasion, of the occasion was the people around, so I made fun of those that were slightly older than me by a few months. Yeah. Look at you, you're old, you sat behind Jesus in class, you know, all of those funny things that, when my day was coming, all those guys were like, yeah, you're 30 years old and now look at you, you know. And then, of course, it was you who was insistent that it's 40 so you better recognize, you better recognize. More than that, I didn't feel any particular feeling, you know, like, yeah, it's my birthday and, you know, I guess, in a way, I'd always wanted my birthday to be low-key because I'm not the type of person that likes the spotlight to be the center of attention, you know, but at the same time, you want that... To acknowledge. Yeah, like, you know, that people like, yeah, you know. So, yeah, I mean, I'd want for people to, you know, celebrate my birthday, but more than that, no. If anything, then it brings again to our topic that turning 40, it seems like a good time to reflect on the life that you've had, you know, and all that comes with it or that has come with it. Yeah. So, what are some of the reflections you've had since turning 40 or what has been on your mind? I mean, first of all, there's a stat that the average life expectancy in South Africa is 64.4, right? Excuse me. Excuse me. Which means that, well, according to the stat, a 40-year-old is past the halfway mark of the expected lifespan. Yeah. So, hearing such words is pretty tiring, right? Yeah. That, well, you wake up one day, you're turning 40, and by the way, you're closer to the end than you are to the beginning, you know. And then, of course, then you have your reflections, you know. I, for one, I look back on my life because I can still remember almost vividly, you know, growing up, being in primary school, in the second grade, you know, coming home from school, riding my bike, which is something that I look at today and I feel like the kids today, the younger ones, you know, they don't experience the same, you know, sense of freedom, so to speak, you know. I mean, I would come back from school and ride my bike, you know. I even, at some point, did a paper route, you know, where I'd go deliver papers, you know, and I'd go everywhere on my bike, you know. You know, we'd go to a public swimming pool, go swim, you know, and we'd just go outside and play, you know, and just play. And I remember these things and they're so vivid in my memory, you know. So, hearing that you're now 40 and that is such a long time ago and your life is almost over, you know, according to the stats, you know, I guess then that's the time for one to sit back and reflect that, okay, what have I done with these 40 years, you know, and I guess that's where, yeah, the self-reflection comes from, you know, where I think that, well, okay, I don't know where my, some of my former classmates, you know, from primary, where did they end up, or some of those that you can still remember their names, maybe when you Google search a particular name and then you see someone and you see a photo, they look like an old baba, you know, they are, you know, professionals of some sort, you know, working careers, you know, they have, you know, kids, you know, they probably have mortgages, they have, you know, paid off cars, you know, and they like, and I know this person when they were young themselves and now they are the parents that, you know, would come up and pick us up from school, now they're doing that sort of thing, so what have you done, you know, are you, am I at that stage also, you know, and have I wasted opportunities, you know, because all of this is, I feel like it's a reminder that, you know, time is gone, now it's time to take stock. Yeah, and I guess that's just the essence of a midlife crisis is that, that realizing that time has moved, there's certain opportunities that you probably won't be able to take advantage of anymore, they might not just be available to you because you're older, your body's changed quite a bit, you can do more in your mind than you can do physically with your body, it starts feeling that way, you're not as youthful, maybe don't have the energy, but I guess part of it is also how well you've taken care of your body as well over the last couple of years, because with 40 you also see some bellies popping up with different people, both men and women I must say, it just seems like your body is just doing a lot more storing of things as well, and then just feeling out of touch with society, with what's going on, pop culture, social media, what are the kids saying, doing these days, you just get further and further away from things in some ways. Well, luckily for me, I've always been a sporty person, I suppose, active, I love walking, hikes, although I don't do as much of those as I might have perhaps earlier, I wouldn't, I don't know, maybe it is, I'm in denial that I don't do much of it now because my body is not allowing me to, but I'm still active, I play football, about, what, 5 to 6 years ago, I found a bunch of guys that played indoor soccer, you know, turf soccer, far far side, I literally walked up to them, introduced myself and said, hey guys, I'd like to play with you, you know, it's been 5 or 6 years, I can't remember really, and without fail, every week, every Wednesday, I meet up with these guys and we play, in fact, I've driven like a bat out of hell when I've been at some work function or work event or work, and I know that at a certain time, I have to drive back because this is my soccer day, I have to go play, and, I mean, we've been at your mom's, at her praetoria on a Saturday morning, and we play at half past 7 in the morning, we've had a long night, the night before, I'll wake up at, I don't know, 6am, leave everybody, drive all the way to Tobruk, try to come play soccer, and then drive all the way back to Praetoria, and I live in Tobruk, you know, so, when it comes to the part of giving up aspect, I mean, I, so far, the belly though, I would agree with, there's just this thing that is just, you know, but for the most part, yeah, you're right, I mean, you know, when I play soccer, sometimes there's things in the mind that I could do a few years ago that I, my reaction speed is way slower now, I would be very interested if one day someone could just record us playing, you know, so that one could just see what it is that they're doing, because when you're in there and you're doing whatever, you know, you're like, oh man, I look different, you know, somebody sitting there has to look at these people who move so slow, yeah, I mean, that's the physical part of it, you know, but for me, I think the biggest thing about this whole thing is the societal expectations, you know, at that age, for me, I think it's that feeling of what do I have to show, so what do I have to show for myself, but also what society sees of me having achieved, you know, yeah, I think that's really something that I go through and pretty much have gone through, you know, I mean, when you're younger, you know, you go to school, you finish school and then, you know, maybe at some point family members would ask you when are you getting married, you know, when are you having kids, this, that and the other, you know, and you have to do these things and then when you do these things and then you're like, well, I have to have a home, I have to have this, I have to have, you know, and I guess when you get to a 40, you then have to take stock, okay, have you actually achieved these things? Yeah, and do you feel like there's positive things about turning 40? Is there, I mean, people talk about, I'm more comfortable in my skin, you know, I know what I want, I'm not insecure anymore, is there anything that you feel like, with age, it might not be exactly because you turned 40, but I guess with age, the positive stuff? Yeah, again, I feel that I've been very fortunate that, I mean, I've got my insecurities, you know, a lot of them, you know, but honestly, when I look back, I, more often than not, I've always been comfortable in my skin, you know, it hasn't taken me four decades for me to get to 11, you know what, finally, you know, of course, you know, there'll be, you know, ups and downs and everything, but I'd be lying if I said that only now, at this age, you know, I'm more confident, in fact, if anything, I mean, you would know, I still have a lot of self-doubt, you know, I still have a lot of self-doubt, and that, in some instances, it's like this imposter syndrome, like, no, no, no, no, no, a proper 40-year-old has a, I don't know, a 10, you know, 15-year career, you know, in banking somewhere, you know, as an accountant in this established firm, you know, they have all these things, and their life is together, and here I am at 40, and, well, I don't have, I don't have this, this, you know, long-standing career in a firm somewhere, you know, where I'm called Mr. Sponban, and have a corner office there, and I'm constantly watching these new guys, and they're coming in, bringing me coffee, and, bababa, Sponban, you know, like, you know, so, yeah, I mean, I mean, to be honest, there's not something that I would aspire to, but I feel like society rolls that way, you know, and when you're not part of that, that's where the questions for me would come from, like, well, what have I been doing? Yeah. Why am I not part of that? Yeah. You know, you know. Yeah, I think the societal pressures or expectations are a big contributor to midlife crises, because then you feel like you're supposed to be doing things a certain way, or be a certain way, because that's how everyone is, and I doubt, I mean, I feel like there's probably very few people who feel like they have it all. I think on social media, we might get the perception, you know, people portray their lives in a certain way, and at face value, we think, oh, this person has the life, the money, the home, the kids, etc., etc., but in reality, it doesn't mean you're happy, for example, you know, it doesn't mean you have good health. There's so many things that we don't see, we don't see in a person's life that contributes to how they feel about themselves, and then leads to them having some sort of crises. I mean, yeah, I suppose that doesn't have to happen at 40, right? Yeah, no, no, it doesn't. It's something that I guess we all struggle with, you know, it's something that I think that we use as some sort of comfort that, well, you might not be a Petrus Motibia with billions, but now you've got your own little thing that's a great equalizer for us, you know, but certainly, I'll tell you this much, if I had those billions, I would have said that if I had all the money in the world that I wanted, and I didn't have to worry about daily life expenses, you know, I wouldn't have any problems. Of course, it's perfect, you know, but I certainly think that if you have financial security, life can be easier, you know, life can be easier. It then just goes to you to recognize that actually I have the means to do whatever it is that I want to do or live the type of life that I would love to live, you know. So, an example I would use is, say, somebody who has money but has marital problems or whatever, you know, and say mainly due to infidelity, you know. I mean, you can't say that I have all this money but I'm not happy because I have marital problems, this, that and the other, especially if you find yourself always caught with your pants down, I mean, that for me is not so much a problem because of the way your life is as opposed to the choices that you're making, you know. So, yeah, so, I don't know, man. I just think that we, when we get to this age, yeah, the magnifying glass from society really just blows things up. I mean, there's this, the guru guy that you like, Siddharth, is it Siddharth? See, it's guru. Oh, Satguru. Satguru. That one time he depressed me, you know, where he basically told me, like, I, like, it's over, you know, don't try, don't, don't try. Well, even if you try... What's it like if you're aged, if you're two years old or something? Yeah, yeah, like, I think the sweet spot for you to do anything that you would ever want to do in your life is at a particular age, you know. Any time after that, forget, you know, you can do whatever you want, but your chances of success are greatly reduced because you do not meet that particular goal at that particular age, you know. So, you know, hearing such things, you know, it's demoralizing, you know, it's demoralizing, like, you know. So, it, it, it puts a greater focus on, on such things as turning the big 4-0. Yeah. Turning 40, all of a sudden, like, that guy said that. I mean, at 32, I wasn't a managing director somewhere, and my, my, my try to be a director, you know, being a CEO is now non-existent because I did not do it. At a certain age, I was at a certain level, you know, and now it's gone. I have to go listen to that because I just remember you watching it and feeling depressed, but I couldn't, I don't know what his reasoning was. No, I mean, his reasoning was simply that. I mean, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you've grown up and you haven't made particular decisions at particular points in your life, then you've missed the boat, you know. So, simple as that. Okay, but I think we must take it with a pinch of salt. What must we take it with? These gurus. Oh, yeah, yeah. I thought you would just take what I'm saying with a pinch of salt. I mean, he's a guru with millions of followers, people who hang on his every word, you know. Maybe it's a tactic, you know, like Jay in that episode of Modern Family, where he tells people that they can't do things in order to motivate them to actually do it, you know. Could be like antagonizing people on purpose so people prove him wrong. I mean, yeah, of course, it is, it is, it is. But what, what are your, seeing that, you know, you've passed more than halfway through your life, is there anything you really feel like you still want to do, you still want to achieve, or just how you want to live your life going forward? I don't know. So, I don't know. I think, I think, you know, one, and that's, I think this is a question that I wrestle with myself, like, you know, most of the day, like, am I not driven, you know, am I not driven, like, am I, am I, am I. So, I always get back to this, basically, I just want to be content, I want to be happy, you know, and because I have this sort of middle-of-the-road approach, I perhaps don't want to strive for the biggest of honors and achievements, and I only want that, or feel that I should be doing that, or should be having that feeling when I see those around me achieving and getting stuff. And I'm like, well, I mean, clearly that's what society expects of one, you know. I wanted to actually mention a particular example that, that there's a friend of mine who is test out, you know, he said that his dream was to win an Oscar, you know, and I've never wanted something like that. I've never defined, you know, and said that I want to do that. But what I do want is to be at peace, and of course, I get financial security. That doesn't mean that I want to be in Elon Musk, you know, Bill Gates, have all these millions, but I certainly want to live comfortable enough that I and my loved ones are taken care of, you know, and we just go about our lives and we do our things without having to worry, what are we going to eat? You know, can we go to the restaurant tonight and actually eat out? No, we don't want to, not because we can't, because we don't want to, you know. So does that now make me somebody who doesn't have ambition? So, yeah, so, I don't know, I don't know that there's something that I still want to achieve. Well, in one phrase I would say that I want to achieve that financial freedom, you know. Okay. But what does that mean? Is there a certain number that helps me achieve this? I mean, you guys that have visualization methods always have a target, you have to have a target, you have to have something to aim towards, and I guess that's something that I've been pretty bad at. Yeah, interestingly, actually, I mean, when a couple of years ago, maybe like 2015, 2016, I'd set a target of like, you know, I want to get to a point where I'm making X amount annually, and this year I've hit that, you know, something that I thought about years ago, like this year I'm actually seeing like shit, like I actually, that thing that I mentioned a while ago, I'm actually there, so I mean, and I don't know if I'm there because I had set the target or, you know, it just happened, but when you see it happening, it's like, okay, wow, I can actually get to the things that I want. Yeah, well, I guess that speaks to my wasted life then, because, I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure there are things that, you know, I've set out to do, that I've done, you know, but because, I often think that because of my personality, I guess, and the way that I'm built, I don't always recognize certain things, you know, I'm always like in this particular moment, you know, and, in fact, I do know, because when I look back on my life and, you know, my career, some of the things that I've done, you know, I say, well, actually, that's quite impressive, and I certainly know that there's people that would look at me in my life and say, yeah, that guy's done so well, you know, and that here I am sitting, feeling like, wow, actually, I've wasted it, I've wasted it all, you know, so it really is a matter of perspective. Would you go to your high school reunion, primary school reunion, first job, and just see the people that you grew up with, you came up with, where they are now? Not interested, honestly. We did try that with my high school friends once to have a reunion, and I think at the time, I'd volunteered to help plan, like, accommodation and stuff, but people couldn't agree on stuff, and then I just saw the same dynamics that we had in high school, you know, I think it was 10 years afterwards, and I just saw, like, these people, they're still the same, we're still having these little squabbles, some people can't make up their minds, some people aren't contributing, and then I just, I was like, no, actually, I'm not interested, and my general feeling has been that the people that I am interested in, and maybe that I care about, I still have relationships with them, and very few of them were from high school. Would you go, have you been to a reunion? No. No? No, none that I can remember, but, I mean, this is the same, I guess, in some way, but, do you sometimes think of the people that you have met in your life and where they are? Not really, eh? Honestly, I don't have that comparison problem, like, I don't look at other people and look at myself, so I never wonder about where people are, really, unless if it's, maybe someone I was really close with, and I'm curious, let's see, how are they doing, but they're very few and far in between, the people that I feel that way about, or that I'm curious about, there isn't, there isn't that desire, but I know you Google, you Facebook search some people, or Google people, No, I can't, I can't Facebook search people, I don't have Facebook. Okay, you search for people, or one or two friends. Yeah, I mean, I mean, yeah, people that at some point I might have had relationships with, you know, that I knew, you know, because I'm a, you know, I've never, I've never been a person that seeks to have a lot of quantity versus having quality, you know, and so some of the people that I may, I might have even fallen out with, or maybe knew for a short time, but I feel within that short time that I knew them, I, they were interested, and they've left an imprint on me in one way or another, not that anything that they would have left in me is something that I still use now, but I just know that between the year 1999 and 2000, I was friends with this particular person, and then after that year, I did not see that person, I wonder where they are, whatever happened to them, you know, we were in Cape Town, when we were in Palo, I was like, you know, I once knew this guy Riaz, you know, I knew him for a year, basically, you know, and after a year, he moved back to Cape Town, never saw him or heard of him ever again, cell phones were fairly new, we didn't have cell phones like, cell phones were for those, for older people, you know, they were fine between youngsters that had cell phones, you know, so, it would have been a case of getting a landline, you know, and maybe if I had a landline, in fact, I don't even think that he said goodbye, like, the year ended, and we went off for holidays, came back, and the guy was gone, and I never saw him again, so, yeah, in that aspect, I definitely try to find out whenever, from time to time, hey, such and such a person, I wonder whatever happened to them, you know, so, yeah, I do tend to look up, it's not a comparison, it's just a thought, a wonder of where the people that I've met, where they are, what have they done with their lives, so, if I'm sitting here and thinking about my life and my achievements, or lack thereof, how have they done, not because I want to compare, but just want to see how they've lived their life, you know, yeah. And so, I guess the takeaway from this, from your perspective, turning 40 hasn't really impacted you in any way, it's just you're getting older, but it's not like 40 has been devastating or life-changing. It's, I mean, for me, it's to a degree, you know, it's to a degree of that life-change and devastation, you know, like, one of the stats is that the most common occupation for 40-year-olds in South Africa is elementary occupations, right, which include cleaners, domestic workers, street vendors, and agricultural laborers. So, these are my peers, right? Now, if we talk about having achieved something in your life, these are the people that, I said earlier that, you know, you look at some of the people that you grew up with, the managers here, they're doing this, they're the sirs and madams, this, that, and the other. They have these corner offices, they've been in this position and moving up the occupation ladder, you know, for over 10, 15, 20 years maybe in some instances, you know. But, if this data is to be believed, the majority of the oldest people when it comes to age in the country are people with menial jobs, so to speak, you know. What have they done with their lives? What has my age group done with their lives? But, the recovery to that for me is that, did we grow up in an era where South Africa was experiencing this freedom, right? Everything was relaxed, all of a sudden there was no pressure for people to sort themselves out quickly and get their act together, you know. Because, I would also love to know the generation before us, what kind of careers did they fall into? And, I mean, at the top of my head, I know that growing up a lot of our parents and people were nurses, teachers, this, that, and the other. Then, we have us who just have, who seem to, you know, at the time when we are supposed to be doing our stuff and getting our act together, we perhaps don't take it seriously, you know. Fast forward 20 years or more, when we are in our 40s, you find that the majority of the people are, you know, like, senior domestic workers. But, these are people that I would have gone to school with, you know. These are people that I would have grown up with. If I'm worried about my sense of achievement and what I've done with my life, you know, what does it say about them, you know? What does it say about us as a group, you know? So, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I think that's a complex one because, yeah, it's almost like we can't, we can't really judge our value by what we do from a, like, just being humane, you know. You can't, you can't say someone's a valuable member of society because they have a good job or whatever the case may be. So, it's hard, and it's hard to know why a majority of people didn't do, you know, didn't become nurses and doctors and whatever else careers that we think of as at least you have a good life, you have a decent profession. I don't, I think that'll take a lot of unpacking to figure out those stats. But, I mean, I mean, I mean, those career choices, maybe not choices, but it happens because you now find yourself at a point in life where it's too late for you to say, can't teach an old dog new tricks, you know. Excuse me. It's important because now society will look at you based on that, you know, that, well, I'm this and you are not. Yeah, it doesn't mean society is right for healthy though. Yeah, I don't think it's, I definitely know that it's not right, that I can say, but majority wins, so to speak, or doesn't even have to be a majority, right? It has to be people with enough influence and power to say that this is how we live it, you know. And so, yeah, so I think in the 40s, I definitely wish that I could go back to my youth with the knowledge that I have now. I definitely think I would make different choices, you know, when it comes to my life and what it is that I want to do. I definitely think that I've learned a whole lot more and if I could do it over again with the choices or with the knowledge that I have, I would definitely do some things differently and, yeah. Okay. Should we tie a ribbon on this, on our first episode? Yeah, let's, you go first. Well, I mean, I don't have more to add besides what you said, but I think a key takeaway for me is it shouldn't be a point in time where you go into crisis mode, where you beat yourself up, where you're comparing yourself to other people. It should rather be a time when you look into yourself and assess are you happy, are you still happy doing the things you're doing, the things you want to do differently just because they don't serve you anymore. And there's that saying where they say comparison is an act of violence against the self. Always looking outwards, trying to find what you should be isn't healthy. It's rather looking inwards and deciding what it is you want, what it is you would like your life to look at. What is happiness for you? Yeah, yeah. Okay, cheers. Okay, that's it. The first one in the bag. Let's see how the rest go. Yeah, they're only going to get better and more organized. Yeah, alright. Peace. Bye.