Episode 4 - Kim Blomme _ Wildnorth Interview

Kim Blom, from the rescue organization Wild North, discusses the importance of wildlife rehabilitation and conservation. She emphasizes the significance of the North Saskatchewan River and the urban green spaces in Edmonton as habitats for wildlife. Kim also talks about the need to understand and respect the natural behavior of animals, especially when it comes to baby hares. She urges people to leave baby hares alone unless they appear to be wounded, and to call Wild North for assistance. Kim acknowledges the challenges faced by their organization in responding to the high volume of calls they receive, but highlights the importance of preventative measures and spreading awareness about wildlife care. She also mentions the abundance of bird species in Edmonton during both winter and summer seasons. Thanks for tuning in today, everybody. On this episode of Your Idea Caused My Idea, I have the wonderful Kim Blom, predominant figure with Wild North. Wild North is a rescue organization here in Edmonton that specializes in the rehabilitation and care of injured and orphaned wildlife. Kim and her team have played a significant role in Wild North operations. She has dedicated her life to wildlife conservation and rehabilitation and engages with community like us today to help us learn as much as we can about how to be good stewards, take care of Edmonton and the wildlife here, and protect our local wildlife because of all the value that they offer. Welcome to the podcast, Kim. Thank you so much. Thank you very much, Natasha. I forgot to ask you, Natasha or Dr. Blom? Oh, Natasha. Yeah, Natasha, I know. When people call me doctor, I don't even answer because I'm like, who are you talking to? I forget, that's me sometimes. Pleasure to be here. Thank you, and we've actually been chatting for probably a couple of hours already. I should have hit the record because I think we touched on so many incredible topics that affect us here locally, but let's turn the table over to you. What would you like to talk about or tell us about today? Oh my gosh, there's so much. I am not a born Edmontonian. I'm originally from Ontario, but I've been here for most of my life now, 45 years plus. I love Edmonton. I actually live in Sherwood Park, but I work and play in Edmonton. And the longer that I've been here, the more that I appreciate the wonderful North Saskatchewan River and what an incredible life source this river is, and how important it is not only to us, but upstream and downstream as well. And of course, that is why we settled here in the first place, because of the river. There are a whole network of ravine systems that run through here, and it actually is a wildlife paradise. We have one of the largest urban continuous green spaces of any city in North America. We should be proud of that. And I know we- We'll make T-shirts. Okay, that's good. You know, winters can be long, but there's lots to do in the wintertime as well. And even though we don't think there's a lot of wildlife around in the winter, there is. We just finished having our Christmas bird count last Sunday. That was pretty cool. And wildlife community, our naturalist community are very involved in a winter bird count. So right now there's people that are compiling all the birds that people are seeing. So we have had already, I think, close to 80 different species reported on that. So we might not think that. We might be in our neighborhoods and think there's only just magpies or only just husk sparrows, but there are lots and lots of species here. There's a wonderland in a river valley, which is so special. And that's just the wintertime. In the summertime, it's absolutely astounding the amount of birds that come through here. And I love that they're collecting the data. We were just having a talk about how important it is to be able to reflect upon what is locally happening. But if we don't measure or we don't look at all these different populations, then how do we know if they're doing well? Population is expanding in the city as well. So we're creating more habitat for specific types of animals. Is that on purpose or is that something we're doing inadvertently? I think it's inadvertently. We're creating space for people. But say, for example, we were talking about the white-tailed prairie hare. We call them jackrabbits. They're not a rabbit. They're a hare. And people say, what's the difference? Well, the main difference is that our hares turn white in the wintertime and then they're brown in the summer, but they always have that lovely little white tail. That's why they're called white-tailed prairie hares. The other main difference with them is when they have their babies, their babies are born fully furred with their eyes open and can hop around almost immediately after birth or definitely within the first 24 hours. Great for survival. That's right, that's right. They tend to scatter quite quickly after that. So they don't have a nest site, say, for example, cottontail rabbits, which we don't have here in Edmonton. And so they disperse very quickly. They are on their own. Mom comes and feeds them in the evening usually, but for the most part, they are on their own. So that turns out to be a bit of an issue for us at Wild North because a lot of people will think that they're abandoned. Of course, I remember the campaigns. See a hare, leave it there. Leave it there, thank you. See a baby hare, leave it there, yes. People assume that this animal has been abandoned by its mom. That's usually what we hear when they carry them into the vet clinic saying, please help this baby. Yeah, I mean, if this were a kitten or a puppy, that's how we would respond to that. Of course, yeah. But we have to remember that these are wild animals and that is a form of survival for them. If she is hanging around with her babies, she's basically telling a predator where they are. That's right. So it's to their benefit to be on their own. I mean, you've touched on a good point that it's good intentions of people to try to help wildlife, but really keeping that separation or distance between people and our wildlife is more important and it's better not to intervene and interact with our wildlife. Never feed the wildlife. I always feel like I am saying that on repeat. Yes, for sure. And in our urban neighborhood, we probably don't have a lot of animals that we need to learn about, but there are some that are commonly there all the time. And if you just learn about what their natural life cycles are like, their life histories are like, it makes them more interesting for one thing. Absolutely, and it gives you an advantage point because you understand them a little bit better. That's right. And you can then know how to appropriately respond. If you see an adult hare that bumped up against the side of a curb and there's blood there, well, something probably happened to that animal and they do need assistance. But if it's a baby hare that's huddling in a lawn somewhere, it may look like it's vulnerable, but it may not necessarily need to be assisted in any way. Because I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, when people would bring you these baby hares, you would have to ask them exactly where they found it and try to return the baby hare. That's what we try to do only because they are incredibly difficult to raise in captivity. A lot of them don't make it. And the behavior that they display when they're born is called freezing behavior, right? So if I stay really still, then this predator, which is usually a hawk, flying overhead, this predator won't see me. And we interpret that as, oh, it's not afraid of me, I can pick it up. But if you were to attach a little electrode to its heart, its heart would be going at 3,000 miles an hour, and it would be frightened. It doesn't show fright the same way that we would interpret it. It doesn't vocalize. So it's easy to misinterpret the behavior of animals that we're not familiar with. And this is why it's so handy to speak to people with a lot of experience with these animals, because they have observed and learned so much about their behaviors and can share that with us so that we can help read them a little bit better too. Because I would be coming from a place of assumption that I'm helping this animal, but then have a detrimental impact. Because you would be separating the hare from its care provider. And then, like you said, they don't do well in rehab. So if we see a hare, leave it there, unless it's an adult that appears to be wounded. And in that case, what should we do? Call us at Wild North, we can assist. Some people will bring the animal directly to us. Sometimes we need to go and try and collect it, especially if you've just driven by and you've seen something and you're not sure. So with Wild North Volunteer Run, do you have a lot of staff? How can Edmonton at large, our community help an organization like Wild North? We do have some staff. In the spring and summer when we're the busiest, then we do have quite a lot of volunteers. We do have a fairly robust rescue, but we're not 9-1-1. Fair. That's, I think, frustrating for people because we don't have the ability to just drop whatever we're doing and go. We're getting 50 to 100 calls a day. Oh my gosh. So we're not able to respond in a way that people may have an expectation about. And we were talking about that earlier. It seems like every time we expand our capacity, the need just- Also expands, thank you. So we're always trying to catch up. And I know sometimes people are frustrated because they can't get through to us on the phone, but that's because we have all these other calls that are coming in as well. And usually just two people that are handling the calls. Yeah, I know that paints a picture for us, for sure. And we talk a lot about that at ECVC and even on this podcast, that the urgent care is so challenging to be able to drop everything and attend. And that's why we really like to focus on the preventative measures, to do as much as we can or spread awareness about how to triage better or evaluate better so that we can really keep the emergencies and emergencies and everything else that can wait. We can help monitor, which is so important, but we'll have a hundred calls a day. And it's in a very concentrated period of time because that coincides with the breeding season of most of our wildlife. Right. Which brings us back to all these birds that all of a sudden come through in the spring and summer. And some of them are actually really obvious. And yet many, many people have never ever seen these huge blocks of sandhill cranes. Are we talking about the sandhill cranes? Tell me more, yes. What a beautiful adventure to be able to observe. Yeah. And sometimes all it is, is they'll be out on a day in mid to late April and I might just hear something like, and I'll think, oh my gosh, I think that might be what I think it is. And then I look up in the sky and then sure enough, you will see on some days, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these birds flying over in huge blocks. What a treat. And it's just an amazing sight. So pull out your ear buds when you're going for a walk, and especially near the end of April, early May, just try to see if you can get above the noise of traffic and listen for these birds because they're quite vocal as they're flying over. So you can hear them before you can see them. Usually I hear them before I see them. Okay, everybody pull out your calendars for 2025, April, May, watch out for those sandhill cranes. Yes. We have a very robust nature club here. It's been around for a long, long time. Started out as the Edmonton Bird Club and the Edmonton Natural History Club, but then the two clubs merged and it's a very, very active group. You can go on walks with them, field trips throughout the city. There's a wonderful gentleman who does a walk through white mud near the Alfred Savage building there. He's out there every day. Sign me up. And he can tell you about a stone. He is so familiar with this rock. He knows all of the plants, the birds, the animals, the different kinds of deer, what to look for. He's a wealth of information and free, really. Incredible awareness to tap into. But Edmonton is in a really unique position because the city itself is positioned with the mountains on one side and the boreal forest above us and then the prairies to the east. And we're in this nice little Aspen Parkland bit. How lucky are we? Yeah, yeah. This is also convergence for a number of our migratory bird pathways. So migratory flyways are areas where birds coming up from the south and then back again in the fall from the north. It's the path of least resistance, right? So they're coming through these areas. So we'll get an amazing amount of birds. A lot of them are on their way to the boreal forest. So a lot of our tiny little warblers that have come all the way from Central and South America, these little like 10, 15 gram birds. How do they do it? I don't know. They cross the Gulf of Mexico. We were like, how did you do that? How inspirational. Yeah. And then they come all the way up here and into the boreal forest and for the main purpose of reproduction, they want to make their little nests and raise their little babies. And those babies hatch just in time for the big hatch out of insects that occur in the boreal forest. So they just stuff their little faces with all this high protein food. And then some of them are gone within four months. They're only here for like a very, very short period of time, just enough to raise babies and then go back down again. That's incredible. It's absolutely incredible. And the diversity of those ecosystems and how they balance each other out. Yeah. So in Alberta, we could theoretically have over 200 to 250 different species of birds. Not necessarily just in Edmonton, moving through the province. So we have to get our binoculars out. Absolutely, yes. And pick up a good field guide. And we talked about getting out of the house and trying to take those nature walks and these birds would be a great motivating factor. Well, it's true. There are a lot of bird watchers. For some people, it's a really big hobby. Of course, yeah. People travel all over the world just so they can check off birds on their checklist. Sign me up. You can start small. You don't have to know a lot to start off, but I'm warning you, once you start, it's like an addiction. I believe it. And it's a good way to expose children to the different birds. What a source of diversity that we have for that growing mind. When it starts with first you're watching and identifying birds and then understanding, oh, well, they're going to that specific tree. What are they actually eating? So then it just becomes this bigger and bigger and bigger. Expansion of knowledge and awareness about who we're sharing our environment with. There's lots to learn and I think worldwide there's over 10,000 species of birds. So it's a hobby that keeps on giving. That's right. That's a good way to put it. So birds will choose specific trees and that leads down that information trail of why are they choosing this house over another house? Or just in general, that trees are critical to bird habitat. They need it for protection. They need it for nesting. They need it because that's where bugs like to go and so that's where food is provided. And trees are vital for us as well, of course. And that brings us into protection around climate change. Of course, big topic. So which is a big topic. The city has initiatives. They want to plant more trees. Oh, they're planning to plant more trees. Yes, way to go City of Edmonton. Thank you. They also sometimes cut down trees. So we have to make sure that- We're replacing the trees. Yeah, at least replenishing. In other places, one, it's not easy to cut down a tree. Usually there's a whole procedure around that. But in other countries, if you cut down a tree, you actually have to plant another few numbers. So I think that's a wonderful system to have in effect. Because trees, again, are vital to our health as well. They clean our air. They provide oxygen. They're just wonderful. But of course, with more trees, we're going to have more habitat. More habitat for birds, as well as for other small animals like squirrels. Now, squirrels tend to have preferences for when they actually invade a neighborhood. The spruce trees have to be a certain height, you know. Oh, interesting. There has to be a pathway for them. If the trees are too isolated, it's hard for squirrels to get around. So this kind of feeds into that path of least resistance that a lot of these animals will innately follow. They're just like us, right? So sometimes people will say in their neighborhoods, you know, I've lived here for 25 years and we never had squirrels here before. Well, now we do because the trees have actually gotten to a height that's preferable. That's incredible. They're producing more cones, right? So we have to remember that, even though we think of the city as a concrete jungle, there's a lot of dynamic interactions and there's a lot of natural things that are happening all the time. That's very cool. I love that our environment is breeding, literally. I think that's such a cool way to look at the surrounding area and make us want to care for it when you look at it like this living, evolving ecosystem. But that brings us to the love-hate relationship we have with these squirrels. They've invaded my friend's attic, for example. It's definitely more difficult if you're in an older house because they found a little hole somewhere. And the coolest part is that every so often someone will discover a Northern Flying Squirrel. Wow. Some people don't know we actually have here. So they're very, very cool animals and they are active at night. Right. So you might hear them racing around on your roof at night, but then during the daytime you're thinking, was that that Red Squirrel that did that? But either way, we don't want to create these passageways. What's the management around these situations? The biggest issue with Red Squirrels was that really from the time the little Red Squirrel is born, it is hardwired to collect food. It's just like, I need to store, store, store. So every moment of their waking time is filled with grabbing something and bringing it somewhere. So they're the workaholics of the world. Absolutely. And so if they found a nice little spot, say in your garage or in your attic, they can start filling it up with a lot of stuff, cones and what have you. They're not really wire chewers, but they can damage insulation, that sort of thing. And of course, feces collecting over years and years. Some people don't really mind that. And if you're in an older home, it may be astronomically expensive to get up there and start fixing things. But really, that's what you have to do. Squirrels tend to have a number of places that they go to. So if they get excluded from one place, they normally go somewhere else. They have a backup plan, imagine that. Yeah, but the city used to allow people to rent traps. And so people would trap squirrels and then move them somewhere. And no, it didn't work out for a number of reasons. One, if you move an animal out of its space, you're just creating a space for another animal to move in. Because obviously, it was a good enough space for that animal, so another squirrel's probably going to move in. Secondly, how far away do you have to actually take this animal so that it just doesn't come back? So I would think people are trapping squirrels on the north side and taking them to the south side. People on the south side are trapping squirrels and bringing them to the north side. So we're just swapping squirrels. It seems like not really that effective. It doesn't sound that effective. So it isn't solving anything. And not only that, from the animal's perspective, it's creating an incredible amount of stress. Because here, this poor animal has spent all this time storing food, and now it's having to fight with whatever animals are all over the place. Because there's something called carrying capacity where there's a certain number of animals. And normally, it's not a good thing for the animal. We think it's the most humane thing to do, but it's not a very humane thing to do. So the general trend now in all over North America, and particularly a big push by the humane societies of the United States, is to not trap animals and move them. It's just it's not humane. It doesn't solve the problem. And the logic isn't there either anymore. Now that we can collect the data and see what the outcome effects are. Unintended consequences too, right? Are we moving diseases around, parasites around? There's all of those other factors. And increased human encounters. We know when wildlife has an encounter with humans, that doesn't ever go well for the animal. Which is so heartbreaking for us who are in this profession, because we love and want to care for our ecosystems and strike that nice balance. But it sounds like human intervention can often lead to unforeseeable outcomes. Because we just don't know enough about the ecosystems and the ripple effects that we can have. So we've trapped an animal, how are we assessing whether we're putting it in a suitable habitat? We don't have that kind of built in information. And a suitable habitat can be so multifactorial. Really the animal is the one that's wired to choose what it wants to do and where it's going. And maybe that's why we're seeing so many more wildlife encounters. That being said, we do have an issue with people feeding wildlife, which is an open invitation to come into our neighborhoods and then take that path of resistance that we were mentioning earlier. Yeah, it's a tricky thing. You know, you've got a bird feeder and you put bird feed out. That's not a easy thing. Exactly. But you do it with moderation, right? You put out a certain amount of food at the beginning of the day, and you just say, okay, I'm gonna watch the feeder. This is fun for me. This is something that I'm going to get pleasure out of. You don't need to pile it up and be running out there every time it runs out and pile it up again. Right, because you can provoke a dependency to that. And then you're having more animals congregating at a certain location, which again, parasites, disease is an issue. You can end up with a lot of things spilling out of the feeder. And so then next thing you know, you've got mice coming in closer to your home environment, which you may not necessarily want to have as well. And then, okay, if you're attracting mice, oh, that's gonna be attracted to the coyotes too. And the neighborhood cats. Which are also attracted to the coyotes. So we're just creating this situation. And we want people in our communities to feel safe. We would love to have people keep their cats inside, but they don't always do that. And if they're not going to do that, we don't want to necessarily- Put them in harm's way. Yeah, put them in harm's way. And then you're out maybe walking your dog, and now you're contending with another animal like a coyote that's closer than you would really feel comfortable with. So it's all these ripple effects of what we're doing. And our animals, our wildlife, they know where to find food. Sure, they will come to your bird feeder when it's really cold, because that's the easiest thing for energy, right? But as soon as the temperature warms up, they would much rather be in the trees getting insects. And you can get all kinds of tiny little insects coming out of the bark on trees, even in the middle of winter on a really hot day, just the way the sun's hitting the bark, and these little insects are coming out. And that's what the birds are- Just waiting for that activation of their next meal. There's always so much chatter surrounding coyotes and problems with coyotes. And I think from speaking with you, we both share this reverence for coyotes. So we're kind of on the other side of not being able to understand some of the slander that occurs when it comes to coyotes. Do you want to share any experiences or any guidance on how to tackle what we would, in air quotes, say a coyote problem here in Edmonton? I would like to say that the city of Edmonton and the University of Alberta have done a lot of research in this area. And the group out of the University of Alberta? And that's the Cassidy St. Clair Lab. Fantastic for what they're doing. And the Urban Coyote Project. Thank you, big thank you for that. So sometimes I'll see on Facebook, someone will say, why doesn't the city do something? And I'm thinking, the city has actually done a lot. Go to their website. It's a wonderful website, yeah. So if you're unsure what to do and you want to take care of everybody, you want to take care of your neighbor cats, you want to take care of your kids, you want to take care of the coyote too, because like we already mentioned, often as a result of these encounters, it doesn't end well for the wild animal in the equation. So yes, please guide us on how to approach these situations for more information, if that's what the first step is, is to gather more information. Gather more information, absolutely. So if you go on to the City of Edmonton's website and you just type in wildlife or type in coyotes, you will find it. And you will be directed to their information line. The phone number is 780-644-5744. Again, the coyotes tend to be generally concentrated in specific areas in the city. And it's related to denning sites, it's related to food availability, it's related to the river valley. But there are other specific areas where they seem to be connectors. They definitely have expanded their range and that is partly due to their lack of predators, which would have been the wolves, right? So all of our wildlife populations are in an ebb and flow of all sorts of different factors. Of course, it's so intricate how the ecosystems can balance out and how they're tried and tested. So we don't want people to be afraid of these animals. There is a lot of fear mongering associated with a coyote. You really have more to fear about an aggressive dog that got out of the yard. Absolutely. Because they are not afraid of people. Most of our coyotes here are afraid of people. It's part of their survival to be afraid of people. However, if they have been fed and associate humans with food, when they see a human, they're gonna maybe stop a moment and think, am I gonna get fed or am I gonna get hate? And it's worth it for them to check it out, right? Rather than just run away. To check in. And that's kind of what they're doing when they come into our neighborhoods and to choose whether we feed them or we haze them. Yeah. So if we do apply basic aversive techniques, those methods do work. Now, not everybody is comfortable doing those methods. So you have to think about for yourself, what are you comfortable doing? But if you're comfortable throwing a tennis ball in their general direction. Yeah, don't try to get them in the eye or anything, but the hazing approach is to scare them in a way that you are sending a clear message that you are unsafe for them. And they can expect no food from you as a result. And that's a very clear message. And once you haze a coyote, they will not have another human encounter for approximately five more months. So you're protecting your neighbor's cat for five more months. You're not bringing parasites into the neighborhood for your dogs if you can haze them. And the hazing, you can turn the volume up and down as needed on the approach, but the small and short of it is that you're trying to be scary. You're trying to send a clear message that your backyard is not a safe place for the coyote, so please don't come back. So I always like the black garbage bag effect. So I just grab a plastic garbage bag and I shake it over my head. And when the wind catches it, it makes this awful sound and I look really big. That's kind of my hazing approach. I have had to pick up rocks and throw them. I mean, my throw is so wimpy, so I'm sure the coyote was like, okay, now walk away. But it works. It's the same clear messaging because we can't shoo them away and then leave food out for them at night. That's very confusing for them. That's right, yes. And there is a difference if you're walking with or without a pet as well. So you just walking on your own, coyote's generally not going to be interested in you. They're not looking to attack people. Unless you're visiting a park where somebody has repeatedly been feeding a coyote there because then they're checking in with every person coming through. Are you the person? Are you the person? Do you have something for me? Now, if you're walking with a dog, that's a little bit of a different story. They're more interested in your dog than you because they're trying to determine what is this animal doing here? Especially if it's in my territory and especially if it's during denning season. So that is definitely a higher period of time when there's more concern because obviously they're now in protective mode if they're young. Then you have to be thinking about where am I walking? What is the time of year? Can I alter where I'm going right now? Can I avoid coming out at specific periods of time in the day maybe that have already shown to me that this is not a safe thing? We do need to work with animals because we can't eliminate them. Maybe some people think that that's the solution, but- Our own ecosystem would suffer as a result because there would be these lasting ripple effects. We would be very upset about all the hares and mice that are around us. But look how excited we get about bird watching. It's not just about the few animals that we need to look out for. We're really all on this ship together. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And when is denning season? When do we have to worry about them being very- Well, we have to start thinking about that definitely by mid-March, going into the early spring. And their dens can be incredibly difficult to find. They're not that obvious. They're crafty, aren't they? They have to be. I mean, look at our dogs. They're complex and very smart. Yeah. Or they can be. We always joke inbreeding has taken that away from us a little bit. It's been a year. You know, another way to not have encounters with coyotes is to keep our backyards clean, especially in the fall, especially if we have apple trees that are dropping fruit. It is important to pick that up. The closer you are to the river valley, you're going to end up with porcupines and deer and coyotes all coming for this food source. We don't generally have to worry about bears here, but definitely in some locations in Alberta. So we've talked about some of these encounters that can happen in the river valley, but what can we do in our own backyards to set up conditions that will be not an open invitation for wildlife? Yeah, absolutely. And Wild North has a program called Healthy Backyards. We are offering it to the community leagues. Send them if you're interested. And we talk about these things, and a lot of it is just like basically looking after yourself, right? So doing timely repairs in your yard, your fence, underneath your porches, garages, attics, any spaces where little critters can get in. It's important for us to keep our homes in good repair. Also, what are we planting in our yards? Do we have this beautiful big apple tree in there or a couple of apple trees, and then come fall, all the apples hit the ground. What are we doing with those apples? We need a plan. Yeah, we need a plan, that's right. We need to clean things up a little bit. So there are lots of things that we can do if we don't want those encounters. There's things we can do to encourage. You can build a bird-friendly yard. There's actually a woman here in Edmonton. She has an amazing yard in Sherbrooke, of all places, which you wouldn't think is that wild of a part of Edmonton, and what she has done in her yard is incredible. She's got cameras up, and she's got birdbaths. She has counted 100 different species of birds that have come into her yard. So she has fostered this incredible environment for the birds. It's incredible, it's incredible, and she also has- I hope her neighbors have catios and not free-roaming cats. I hope so, too, and I'm a big fan of catios. I love cats. I've always had cats. And I love environmental enrichment for cats, and keeping them inside isn't always the best way to attain that, but catios keep them safe from other cats and the birds. Win-win for everybody. And you can build something or get something very simple. I actually got one of those little put-together chicken coops that you get at P.D. Mart. So you don't have to spend a lot, but you can get pretty darn fancy if you want to. And be a good custodian. Take care of your backyard and the visitors that you want to prevent from coming and the ones that you want to invite. Absolutely, yeah. The responsibility falls on us. We can definitely control these things. And at one point early on in Edmonton's history, the city used to do things like come and travel porcupine out of your backyard or, you know- The city's too big now. We're too ready. The city's too big. It is too expensive. We have a lot of other pressing problems in our city that require our tax dollars. Now I'll tell you one story. This actually happened on the same day that I was doing phones at Wild North. So one gentleman called about a porcupine that was on an acreage property on the edge of the city. And he was very frustrated because he had a porcupine that was coming into his yard and was chewing on some of his trees. And we got to talking and it turned out that he had something like 50 trees in his yard. And the porcupine was chewing on the branches. So I said, well, trees actually have learned to cope with some predation from gnawing animals. We talked a little bit about trapping and I was really trying to discourage him. And then finally I said, I hope you don't mind me saying so, but even if it kills one tree, is that really the hill to die on for you? Good question. No, I think we have to ask ourselves that question every day. And he said, yeah, I don't want him killing the tree. So I thought, okay, well, I put it out there. Maybe he's had time to think about it. I don't know what actually happened because he would have had to take the trouble to get a trap, trap the animal and then try to decide where to put it. But the same day I had another call from someone who lived in the Mill Creek Ravine area. And he was telling me about all the animals that he welcomes into his yard. And he's so excited to see them. He had a porcupine there the other day and it was so neat to see him. And I said, thank you so much for calling me today. I needed to hear that. I needed to hear that. But that just goes to show that everybody has their tolerance level for things, right? And I'm not trying to tell people what they need to do, but I'm just saying that when it comes to lethal management of animals, it's usually not the answer. And relocating them is usually not the answer. And we as human beings are uniquely able to change our attitude or reframe how we look at things and adapt. That animal's not going to. And that animal doesn't know that you spent $300 to put that tree in. He just knows it tastes good, you know? And I'm kind of hungry, so he's not doing it to deliberately frustrate you. And I'm sure that most of us have a lot of other things that are more pressing. Yeah. And the other side of that coin is that maybe he can deal with that one porcupine, but it's going to be very frustrating when another one just replaces that spot because that's what they will do. They will seek out these paths of additional distance. So he might not be doing himself a favor by eliminating the one porcupine because another one may follow. And like you had mentioned that sometimes these trailblazers, the first of the species that we see in our communities, they're the strongest. They're the bravest and they're the most experienced. And that's what gives them the bravery to encroach on our urban centers. But because they're strong, they're usually protected, maybe from some of the infectious agents that we have to worry about as carriers, which is a very profound and deep topic. But we have to keep in mind that this is a chain of command. So one porcupine is usually representative of a whole system or population, I guess, would be a better way of putting it. And there's certain movements throughout the year when you'll see animals that you don't any other time of the year. And fall is the time when a lot of animals are dispersing. They're leaving their family groups or they're not staying together with whoever they mated with that year. And they're wandering around trying to find a new space. Another really interesting quote was from Shannon Bigweed from the McEwen University, who's done a ton of work on red squirrels. And I have used this a lot. I tell people, learn to love the squirrel you have. Because loving the squirrel you don't have is harder. Could be worse, could be worse. And you're right. When you were mentioning about a hierarchy, that one squirrel is keeping all the other squirrels out of your yard. They're not group animals. They're like, this is my turf. No one else is living here. So if you can tolerate that one animal, that might be the best it gets. That's incredible to think about it that way. I've never considered that. So it sounds like these are perennial problems, but we can do quite a bit in between those time periods to prepare our front yards and our backyards and maybe the trees around our homes as well. And you had mentioned, when is a good time to cut back on trees? We don't want to do it when our trees are full of critters. I feel like late fall is a safer time. I mean, tree pruning does occur most times of the year, which I haven't even begun to tackle. But if you're thinking about taking out a tree, which always breaks my heart to cut trees. If you are thinking about taking a tree out, you definitely want to be thinking about the time of year. You want to be watching to see what animals are coming in and out, what birds are coming in and out. Because we do have birds that not only nest in open nests, but also in tree cavities, right? And flying squirrels will go into tree cavities. Our red squirrels go into tree cavities with peckers. And all the insects that feed them all. Yeah, yeah. So there's a bit of a new asset for some of the tree arborists who will assess the tree. If someone calls and asks them to come, they'll look at the tree. Well, we can maybe take this part off and this part off instead of hacking the whole home down, you know? That's cool, because they're the experts. There's an art to it, you know, I would not know how to do that. So I think choosing an arborist is important to choosing someone who's going to work with you. And approaching these problems ethically is another consideration that we don't even know how to do that sometimes. So that would be great if the experts could lead us and give us some guidance there, because, of course, we perceive a problem. We think we can get rid of the problem by removing the trees. But that's not the case. Rarely is that the case that we could solve problems. Eventually, you'll create another problem. Oh, my goodness. So bird-friendly Edmonton is running a contest. You might have heard about it on the news. We're talking about it on different radio shows here in Edmonton, where Edmontonians are being asked to vote on a city bird. Okay, what does that mean? So we have a lot of migratory birds, but we also have a lot of birds that spend the whole year with us, and we call them our native birds. They're the ones that go through the winters with us, those hardy little fellows. So Bird-Friendly Edmonton is an initiative of Nature Canada, and the city of Edmonton is at the very first level of being a bird-friendly city. Oh, fantastic. So this small group of volunteers on this bird-friendly committee is working with Nature Alberta and the Edmonton Nature Club on this initiative to vote for a city bird. And the Edmonton Nature Club started the initiative. They did the initial vetting of what birds are even gonna be part of this, and they consulted with quite a number of people, and they got down to six. The Black-billed magpie, people are going, oh, and Blue Jays are another one, Red-breasted Nuthatch, the Saw-wet Owl. The Boreal Chickadee. The Boreal Chickadee. And the Downy Woodpecker. Downy Woodpecker. So those are our six birds. Some people might say, why didn't we choose the Black-capped Chickadee? Because we do have a lot of Black-capped Chickadees here, but Calgary's already picked the Black-capped Chickadee. Okay, so that's why it wasn't an option. So we're down to these six birds. Between now and the end of the year, anybody that lives in Edmonton can actually vote on which bird they would like to see. I'm not gonna give an opinion one way or the other, because I love them all, but you can go onto the Edmonton Nature Club website and you will find the voting form there. And it'll give you a little bit of a description of each of the birds, too, so you can decide for yourself. You can decide just on how you like the way they look, or you can decide on behavioral characteristics, or whatever reason you have, and you don't even have to explain it. You can just pick one. I love that, because this would be a great contest for kids. You're really encouraging kids to get involved in this. Absolutely. And then, like you said, follow that rabbit hole of information. Well, this is a bird. What characteristics of this bird? Where does this bird live? What does it eat? And that's such a mental activity that can be so enriching for adults and kids alike. So once we've chosen, at the end of the year, we're gonna get down to the last three birds. So whichever three birds have the most votes, and then by the end of March, we're gonna choose based on the vote. So early in March, we're gonna have an event at the Edmonton Valley Zoo on March the 8th, and we're planning to do it like the debater's style. Fantastic. We've got three naturalists. Each of them is gonna pick a bird, and we're gonna have a moderator, and they're each gonna argue for their bird. They can argue for why their bird should be chosen. That's fantastic. And can anyone attend? Yeah, there will be more information about that coming out. That sounds like a lot of fun. There will be a limited number of people that can go, because the venue itself only holds like 70 people. Or put it online so that we can watch remotely. That would be cool. Yeah. And anybody can vote now. So there's two rounds of voting. There's two rounds of voting, but we do want people to only vote one time for the top three, and then one time for the top five. Of course, yes. We want it to be fair and representational. Well, I'm really thrilled. That sounds like the city of Edmonton is doing quite a bit, and that we have these legacy nature groups here in Edmonton that I can't wait to look up. There's tons of activities that go on in the summertime as well through Nature Alberta. And it's a wonderful organization. There's so many links there as well to other things. We'll also have the Snow Goose Festival coming up at the end of April, and that's out in Tillfield. That's where you get to see hundreds of thousands of snow geese migrating through. That's fantastic. Yeah. Well, Kim, thank you so much. We'll have to have you back. We'll have to revisit some of these contests, see how they pan out. And I'm sure, like you said, we're gonna come up with all these other questions as soon as we finish the podcast. So whatever those are, I'll write them down and we'll have you back. Okay, thanks a lot, Natasha. I really enjoyed chatting with you. Thank you for joining us today. If you liked what you heard, don't forget to subscribe and stay in touch. Your support helps us keep the conversation going. So until next time, stay curious and keep exploring. Goodbye.