Discuss w/ Friends (Overview Lens)

Surely, the Lord God will do nothing, but He revealeth His secret unto His servants the prophets. How blessed we are to have a living prophet today. Brothers and sisters, the Savior declared, whether by my own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same. Welcome to Conference Chronicles, where we systematically take one conference talk per week from the previous conference and dissect it and learn from it. I'm your host, Taylor Lithgow, and I firmly believe that as we listen to and apply the Lord's teachings through His living prophets, we will fulfill the full measure of our creation and we will be prepared for the Lord at His second coming. So please join with me each week as we take this quest called Conference Chronicles. Hey, everybody, welcome on into another Wednesday episode, Discuss with Friends. I've got one friend with me again, my wife, Cassidy. Lovely to have you back. Thanks. Good to be back. Two weeks in a row. You're running out of friends. That's right. I mean, most of my life I feel like I have one friend, and that's you, and so why not just have you on every week? No, I will start introducing new guests as well, but I love having you on, Cass, and I love hearing your opinions. So, yeah, of course. So this week's talk is given by Sister Tamara W. Runia. It's entitled Seeing God's Family Through the Overview Lens, and just kind of like a quick synopsis of what the episode is about, and then we can get into discussing about it. She tells a story about when her daughter was little and she was reading a book with her, and she had recently started wearing these glasses that kind of magnified everything. They're reading glasses, you know, to help her see. And she looked at her daughter and her daughter just looked like she was a lot bigger and more grown up than she did before, and she kind of started to cry, thinking, man, where has all the time gone? My little girl's growing up so fast, and then she realized that it was largely just because her glasses had magnified her daughter, and so she just looked bigger because she had the glasses on. And she goes on to say, sometimes all we can see is that up-close, magnified view of those we love. So tonight, I invite you to zoom out and look through a different lens, an eternal lens that focuses on the big picture, your bigger story. And she kind of goes on to tell the story of when Apollo 8 had gone into space and they had seen the Earth from that up-high vantage point for the first time, and it was life-changing for the people that witnessed it, and it was so impactful that it had a name that it took on, and that name was the overview effect. And so that's kind of the basis of her talk, is seeing those we love and seeing ourselves, frankly, with an overview lens, an eternal perspective, not being so zoomed in and micro-focused on every little detail. So with that kind of as the backdrop of our discussion, what were some of the main things that you liked or that stood out to you as you read the talk? There were a lot. I really liked how this seemed to be an incredibly encouraging talk. It left me feeling good. And I think that that takes a really special kind of individual to be able to do that in a public speaking event. Like I said, it just really felt the overall message was encouraging. So it was fun to read. There was a couple of passages I really liked that she shared, if it's all right if I share with you. Yeah. Go for it. So the first one is, what I'm about to say or do, helpful or hurtful? Our words are one of our superpowers, and family members are like human blackboards standing in front of us saying, write what you think of me. These messages, whether intentional or unintentional, should be hopeful and encouraging. Another one is, sometimes what we need is empathy more than advice, listening more than a lecture, someone who hears and wonders, how would I have to feel to say what they just said? And lastly, let's admit, in a fallen world, there is no way to be a perfect spouse, parent, son or daughter, grandchild, mentor or friend, but a million ways to be a good one. Let's stay at the tree, partake of the love of God and share it. By listening to people around us, we ascend together. So it just really felt focused on the family and communication and being a good family member and friend, and I really enjoyed it. Yeah, I really appreciated those things. I thought those were powerful excerpts from the talk as well. I think it's so easy to rush in and offer advice, offer a lecture, try to teach somebody something. Or fix it. Yeah. Fix the problem. That's true. I guess I'm definitely guilty of that. Anytime a problem is presented to me, I immediately get kind of stressed because I feel like I need to do something to fix it. But yeah, with that being said, we are all imperfect. Maybe that doesn't even need to be said. That's said so much. But the point is that we often see our imperfections and the imperfections of those that we love so much more. And quite frankly, oftentimes, it's kind of a warped perspective. I mean, how many times do you start to believe something about yourself that quite frankly isn't true? Like a lie? Oh, yeah. Oftentimes. Whether that's because, unfortunately, you hear it from a loved one who tells you something and you just start to believe it about yourself, or whether it's your own brain playing tricks on you. You hear, oh, I'm impatient. I'm prideful. I'm lazy. I mean, there's so many things that just eat and chip away at us. And unfortunately, you can really start to believe that after enough time. Yeah, totally. I got off the phone with my mom recently and she said that the man that raised her for most of her life would tell her that she was, quote unquote, the spawn of Satan. I mean, what a cruel thing to say to a child. But yeah, you're right. Oftentimes they're temptations of the adversary telling us things about ourselves, or unfortunately, in a lot of cases, even those that should be protecting us and should be encouraging us will feed these negative thoughts into our mind. Intentional or unintentional. Like she said, obviously, some people can be cruel because of their own reasons, which is unfortunate. And then sometimes I think as a parent or a leader, you can put those things in someone's head unintentionally. Totally. I think that most of the people listening today are probably in that bucket. They're well-intentioned. There's probably hopefully not a lot of people on here listening that are calling their kids the spawn of Satan. Yeah. I really hope not. You might need more help than just listening to this podcast twice a week. But probably in most instances, they're well-intentioned, but at the same time might also be overbearing or too close to the actual situation itself to where you can't really see clearly. You and I have been working on a puzzle recently. It's been fun. It's about Clue, the board game Clue. And if you look at one piece individually, it's almost impossible to tell what it is. It just kind of looks like a blob of colors. But then once you place all the pieces together and you start to zoom out, you can see that the puzzle coming together and the picture taking place. It's the same thing with like a beautiful tapestry, right? They're just one little piece at a time. And if you're zoomed in, you can't see it, but it requires a little bit of an overview lens as Sister Runia would say. Totally. She mentioned in her talk times that she had done that with her adult children and was looking a bit too closely. She mentioned the part where she was making lists for the time that her kids are going to come back home on how she thinks that they can improve, right? It doesn't seem like she's a cruel lady. She wasn't trying to do anything wrong. And eventually she was able to have that overview effect and threw the lists away and it had really sweet experiences with her children from then on out. I think often we can all fall into that lens where we're making lists, probably well-intentioned lists, but isn't the most helpful in the long run. Totally. Yeah. If you ever catch yourself making a list of all of the quote unquote bad things that your child or your spouse or your sibling or your parent does, I personally would recommend throwing the list out, as she said, and change your focus. And perhaps maybe you should write down all of the good things that you recognize about that person. And I think you would be changed from having quite a negative experience to a borderline heavenly experience of having your eyes opened and your ability to see your family member for who they really are in a lot clearer perspective. Yeah. That's a great exercise. Yeah. That little story that you told about her making a list about her kids to tell them when they came over on Sunday and then her throwing it out, that was in response to something that she had heard about Elder Maxwell and his son. She said, shortly after Elder Neil A. Maxwell passed away, a reporter asked his son what he'd missed most about his dad. He said, dinners at his parents' house because he always left feeling like his dad believed in him. I thought that was really sweet. Yeah. It's beautiful. And I really hope that the people that I interact with, when they leave that interaction, they feel like, man, he helps me believe in myself more, as opposed to the other way around, maybe feeling worse about themselves after we leave. Is there anyone in your life that you can think of that has this effect on you that helps you feel like you believe in yourself, or you always feel better after you're done? Yeah. A lot of people come to mind, right? People affect you in all manner of ways. Someone who really stood out to me is your grandma, your grandma Paula. And you know this. You have a smile on your face right now because she has this insane way of making you feel like a million bucks, that you are the best person who just walked in the room, and that you can accomplish anything. It's crazy. And she's just so good at that. She's such a comforting force. And it's funny, our friends, he's been on the podcast with you, Alex, and his wife Candice, they ran into your grandma, and they were telling us after that, you know, we spent a little bit of time with your grandma, and it's amazing how she makes you feel. And that's just your childhood best friend ran into your grandma, essentially, and that's how she even made them feel. It's a really unique talent, making somebody feel like a million bucks, that is the type of person where you'll think, yeah, I'm going to miss them when they're gone, when I don't get to have those interactions. And it's also beautiful in a lot of ways, your mom inherited a lot of those traits. And so I'm lucky to have a grandmother-in-law and a mother-in-law who kind of make you feel good. But it's just an amazing quality that I really hope, like you said, that I can have with people and they can leave thinking, wow, yeah, I feel good after leaving her house. Totally. Yeah, it doesn't hurt that my grandma has this Southern drawl. Right, it doesn't hurt. She'll be like, oh, honey, you look so beautiful. Like she'll talk to you, hun, uh-huh, my goodness, you're glowing, honey. You know, it's just, yeah, she's the best. She's the best. And we should admire the people, like you said. And I think think of qualities about everyone to feel really fond of them and grateful for them. But I think another good exercise is what the question you just asked me, because, right, I start talking about your grandma, and then I think about your mom, and then I think about so-and-so, and then I think about so-and-so. Really there's a lot of people, and maybe it's not all the time, right? Everyone has their faults. Everyone has their bad days, but I think that's another really good exercise to try to ponder who makes me feel good and encouraged, and what are they doing that makes me feel good and encouraged, and then how can I apply those actions in my own life to essentially pass it forward. Try to really think and identify it. After we just had that one question interaction, it really makes me want to think about that more. Yeah, that's a good point. I think the first step is just becoming a Southern woman. Yeah. Exactly. Born in Texas, and go from there. No, but I agree, because all too often, right, we find ourselves gossiping about other people, or thinking. It's so easy to think a negative thought, but then just as negative thoughts expand and grow, positive thoughts also expand and grow. I asked you that one question, and then, like you said, you started to be filled with positive thoughts, and it went on from there. Yeah. Where are you going to put your energy at? Right. Exactly. I wanted to maybe shift a little bit and ask, so we've talked about how it's so easy to find ourselves being zoomed in, or hypercritical, or hyperaware of our own faults and those around us. When and where do you see this way of thinking kind of creeping into your life the most, would you say? Or who does it happen the most with? I unfortunately think it happens the most with you, my spouse. Yeah. It's not something that I like to admit or say on a podcast, but it's just the truth. I'm just being honest, right? I know that I can be, not even that I can be, I know that I am the most critical with you. I think that the reason behind that is because we are the most critical of those that we love the most. It's kind of a twisted little thing that happens, right? When you get down to the root of it, I think sometimes it's because I know your potential. I know that you can, in my mind, do better, or accomplish what I think that you need to accomplish by when you need to accomplish it by, or any of the examples, and they're not very eternal things. That's kind of the point. They're all very temporal problems. You think I can take the trash out- Before it gets full. Before it gets full. Yeah, exactly. I think oftentimes that we're actually trying to be loving in our course correction, but we're just focused on the wrong things. Yeah, I totally agree. I find myself being the most zoomed in on you and other family members and myself. It seems to happen more and more the more time you spend with a person. Exactly. Who you're closest with. Yeah, or even like friends, right? If you find yourself spending a lot of time around certain friends, all of a sudden you start becoming more critical. I think it's a natural thing because you have more experience with them. You're probably thinking about them more. They're kind of consuming a larger portion of your brain and your thoughts. That's why it's also equally important to try to maintain that eternal perspective with these people. In the talk, Sister Runia says this. She says, The adversary does not want us or our loved ones to return home together. And because we live on a planet that is bound by time and a finite number of years, he tries to perpetuate a very real sense of panic in us. It is hard to see when we're zoomed in that our direction matters more than our speed. So I do think it's important to realize that there actually is an opposing force as well tempting us to not be kind to our families and to ourselves. And then like she said, because this earth life is finite, that can start to make us feel panic. We start to think, oh my, I haven't progressed as far as I wanted to. I'm already 30 now. I thought I would have done more by now or look at my sibling. They should definitely be doing more with their lives. They're leaving the church. Like we start to have these thoughts of, you know, we, this earth is finite, they need to get on the train and they better get on fast or else it's going to be too late. You know, so we start to have these panicky feelings, especially when we're super zoomed in. Yeah. And so I just wanted to add that in response to your question about how you and I, and I think probably everyone seems to be the most hypercritical of their immediate family members. And I do think that there is an actual opposing force, AKA Lucifer, AKA Satan, AKA the devil. I agree. I agree. And I think that's why it's good to remember our intention. If we're being hard on ourselves or on a sibling who's leaving the church or who is talking about not going on a mission or there's so many possibilities, right? What's our intentions? And then I think that's where a paradigm shift can happen because it's normal to feel concerned. You love them. You want what's best for them. And there is a clear equation on what is best for humankind in general. There is. And everyone's path isn't the exact same, but the equation is the same and it's to return home to him. But it's just your intentions and your delivery and getting rid of that sense of panic that Satan is trying to put on you. That's what I really like. It's about the direction, not the speed. I know that she references space and her talk, you know, talking about Apollo 8 and stuff. And I'm pretty sure there's a movie that I watched, I don't know if it was with you, but it was talking about astronauts and how it's everything. And I think it's probably with planes too. It's just such slight course correction to go where you're going. And it's kind of constant course directions to keep the eye on the prize. It really has nothing to do with the speed. If you just go fast and you don't care about the direction, you're going to end up in Mars. But if you just go the speed you should be going and keep correcting your course, you'll get there happily. Right. I like the point that you shared about the intentionality behind it, because quite frankly, it's very hard to hide our true intentions behind something. If we approach a situation with love and truly intending to help, typically that will come out and that will be the overarching feeling of the conversation. But if we approach a situation with hostility, thinking poorly, thinking down on someone and being super zoomed in and like really focusing on somebody else's faults, that will come out too. It's kind of hard to hide your intention behind it. Totally. So I like that. I did want to ask if you had any sort of practices or guidelines that you try to follow at all to remind yourself to have an eternal perspective with people? Or is there something that you do that kind of gives you that overview lens? I am not even close to being perfect at it. I am the first to admit that I can be hypercritical of you and of some of my loved ones. But I do notice what helps me kind of ground me in it is the intentionality of praying for them by name, putting myself in their shoes. The quote that I mentioned a little earlier, sometimes what we need is empathy more than advice, listening more than a lecture, someone who hears and wonders, how would I have to feel to say what they just said? And that is a really powerful question when you think about it, when someone you love is being kind of short with you or maybe just straight up says something mean to you, cruel to you or, I mean, any situation, if you try, whether it's directly in the moment or just later when you're still feeling worked up about it to think, how would I have to feel to say what they just said or to act how they just acted? What could they be going through that is making them do, act, say these things? You really start to feel love for the person to realize, ooh, maybe they're just really lost. Maybe they're really stressed. Maybe they're this, that, and this. And I think it really gives a true sense of love. And it's something I want to continue to practice more because I've seen that happen in my life. I have been filled with so much love for people, even when maybe initially I wasn't like initially judging them or feeling hurt by them. And yeah, I think praying by name, I think trying to be a good communicator, being a listening ear rather than a lecturer can just really, really grow relationships. I think that was beautifully worded. You started by saying, praying for them by name. And then you kind of finished by sharing a few of the tidbits that she taught us in her talk. Yeah. And so I would, I would invite everyone, and I extend this invitation with every time we go over these talks to read them on your own, you know, and seek to apply the things that you read in them. I will point out that I do believe that sometimes there might need to be loving feedback given to the people we love. You know, in our episode last week, you quoted from a scripture that said, whom the Lord loves, he chastens. Yeah. And so with that being said, what do you think are some helpful ways we can encourage our loved ones without feeling the need to constantly tell them things or teach them things? Yeah, that's a great question, because it's so to want to just tell them things to lecture at them or to whatever, you know, right now we have Taylor's 22 year old brother living with us. And it's been great. But there is an age gap there, right? Like we're 30 and he's 22 and he's figuring things out, right? We were there. We were at that age once. But sometimes it feels so easy, you just want to say, okay, this is what you need to do. You need to go for school for this, because I can see that you'd be great at this. And this is probably the good job that you should have right now to get you through school. And oh, you know, it makes me nervous that you drive a motorcycle, you really should be driving a car. It's like we want to just tell them what we know, whether it's even necessarily right or wrong. It's what we want to do. And so I think some ways to encourage without essentially talking at them, I looked up, and I'm going to link anything that I've referenced in the show notes below. But one of them that I found on a website is the seven E's to help others reach their full potential. And I thought they were really cool. And you can ponder your own meaning behind them or on the website itself, it does give a little synopsis for each, each of the E's. And so they are engage, educate, equipped, encourage, empower, energize and elevate. Those are all really cool and powerful words to practice when talking with someone. Yeah. Could you read them one more time? Yeah, I'd love to engage, educate, equip, encourage, empower, energize and elevate. And out of all those words, one of my favorite is just elevate. Yeah, elevate the person. Don't break them down. Totally. That would indicate that you're mostly sharing positive things about them. We've all been there where a parent, a leader, you know, someone older and wiser than you essentially is telling you what to do and how to do it. And it never really feels good and inspiring. It's kind of like, you're nagging me or you're doing this or that. And so I feel like if we can just learn to communicate better in a style of elevation, everything will get accomplished that needs to be accomplished in a happy way. There is another quote that I found when I was researching, you know, some of these things. And there's a theme that when you ask me to be on here, I read the talk, but I also want to dive in a bit more into what the topic is about. And so for me, a lot of that had to do with style of communication and style of helping people in a positive way. So a quote that I found was by an NFL coach. It said on Wikipedia. He's one of the most well-renowned head coaches that has been in NFL. He was from kind of an earlier time. His name's Chuck Knoll. And he said, our job as a coaching staff is to show you what to do and how to do it. Your job as players is to do it consistently. Leaders need to create an environment in which others can be productive and excel. They set parameters and guidelines for the task, project and continually recast the vision, and then provide the tools and equipment needed for everyone else to be successful in their assignments and ultimately to accomplish their mission. And it seems like we make a lot of sports reference on your podcast, but I do like that you can still have parameters and guidelines. You know, I think of as a parent, I mean, I'm not a parent, but for a parent who deals with some of these communication things like she shared, there are still guidelines and parameters that you're setting up and you're teaching your kids, you're showing them how to do it, and then giving them the things, you're equipping them with the things that they need. Yeah, that was a wonderful quote. I never thought that I would see you pull out a quote from an NFL coach. Usually that was me talking about sports quotes or analogies, so I'm very impressed. You rub off on me. I guess so, for the better or the worse. So in recap, I just kind of wanted to round out and close off this episode by thanking you for being on again, Hun. I really appreciate the insights that you provided and some of the things that you looked up on your own time. And I wanted to give a reminder to all of us and myself to seek to see our loved ones and ourselves from an eternal lens, an overview lens, if you will, and that we will have so much more compassion, but we'll also be able to approach situations a lot more appropriately with that view in mind. I'm going to close with one quote from the talk. Sister Runia says, in these last days, perhaps our greatest work will be with our loved ones. Good people living in a wicked world. Our hope changes the way they see themselves and who they really are. And through this lens of love, they'll see who they will become. So I hear her saying that having this perspective will transform us and the ones that we love. I invite us all to do the same. And I bear my testimony that the Savior will help us in this endeavor because he wants us to put these principles into practice. He'll never ask us to do something without being willing to help us get there. I also share my testimony that family relationships can be perpetuated beyond the grave and that the restored gospel of Jesus Christ provides every truth and every ordinance and covenant that we need to return home safely to him. And I close that in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen. Thank you for joining us, Hun, and thank you for everyone listening, for joining for this week's episode of Discuss with Friends. Just a reminder to check out the links in the notes and to check out the Sunday episodes of Conference Chronicles as well. I hope you have a wonderful week, and we'll chat with you next week. See you guys.