ep 41 AUDIO

The host discusses the lack of political activity during the dark days of January. They mention the announcement by the provincial government regarding an upgrade to the kindergarten curriculum. The guest, Richard Brennan, criticizes the announcement, saying it is unnecessary and just make-work. They also discuss the Ford government's agenda and the controversy surrounding the greenbelt and highway construction. They question whether the Ford government's agenda is on hold and if there will be changes in the future. Finally, they briefly mention the announcement to move Service Ontario out of communities. welcome to the bill kelly podcast critical discussions in critical times here's your host bill kelly and this is the bill kelly podcast i'm your host bill kelly good to have you with us today uh... as we start to wind through what they call the dark days of january because there's not a whole lot going on not a whole lot of sunshine people get depressed uh... even more depressed when they open the newspaper and find out what's going on in the world and what's happening politically uh... but it's it's it's kind of a blind spot for uh... federal and provincial politicians these days because uh... well the house isn't sitting yet uh... the ontario legislature uh... is not going to get back to almost family day but that doesn't mean there isn't that things going on in ontario and queens park and to talk about that so please welcome back to the podcast a good friend richard brennan retired journalist uh... who covered queens park and part of it over some of the years uh... badger great to have you with us today happy new year belatedly and uh... thanks for joining us today that's a new bill glad to be here i want to jump in first of all with an announcement that was made just a couple of days ago here by the provincial government uh... with education minister stephen lecce who was uh... usually the minister that the four government trots out when they try to change the channel to something else is uh... here's an education innovation for you and uh... the announcement was of course about an upgrade about the kindergarten curriculum i don't remember them talking much about that during the campaign a year and a half ago as a matter of fact i don't remember anybody talking about uh... the need of the urgent need for this uh... but you know it was the usual staged in with there's the minister about a bunch of little kids and he's talking about innovation and getting back to basics which is what they you tend to want to say all the time they're talking about education uh... a couple of the unions involved in this teacher you can use it to set the civic and we didn't know if you're going to do this uh... so i guess they can be do not check that box will consultation off is is this something that's legitimate is this something that that that i'm sure in need the education system needs right now excuse the cynicism here is it just an attempt to try to change the channel from some of the other crap that's going on right now well i i think it's it's a you know it's make work you know you just uh... just that you're going to going to you know you have kids go back to the basics while they're in kindergarten we're not talking about somebody in grade eight or grade ten you know this is just this is a time to for kids to socialize sure they should learn some you know a few basics i have no problem with that that's great but you know what's what's he uh... reading and writing arithmetic i mean i don't i don't get it and he's talking about uh... you know introducing other uh... things and i go like who do you think you're dealing with they're just kids let them be kids you know i don't know unless he was you know deprived at that age or i'm not sure what happened he uh... it's just so much bubble woney it really is just make work it's here you know what have you said lately Mr. Lache and uh... well i haven't had much to say and there's this board or this commission or whatever it was blue ribbon panel said yeah maybe maybe we should change up what happens at the kindergarten level you know also be it i don't think it's going to be a dramatic thing but on the other hand who cares well even some of the parents they talked about it if you watch some of the tv news clips uh... after the announcement uh... you know the six o'clock news and later uh... most parents seem to have that rather ambivalent attitude like you know that my kid needs a lot of stuff right now but you know that uh... change in the curriculum an update to the curriculum uh... doesn't seem to be on their list really and and you're right i mean what she was talking about okay we're going to do things like coding and and improving reading skills and uh... first of all i don't know if kindergarten's the place to start teaching coding and things of this nature but the overall attitude i heard from a lot of parents and of course you only get about ten seconds of your interview doing a six o'clock news because they've only got a limited time uh... but they said the same thing you did you know just let the kids be kids you know it's nine fifteen it's time for this time for this okay it's recess outdoor ten minutes boom boom it sounds like captain van trappen sound of music running the the thing instead of you know teachers and is is it really necessary right now or is this just as you say an attempt to try to say hey we're doing something i know you don't think we're doing anything but here here's here's an important innovation in education coding? coding? i know i've read that and i go what? that is something you might learn you know uh... in dribs and drabs maybe even in high school now but coding? give me a break i mean let's say you might have gone to you know kindergarten with a shirt and tie and a suit every day but uh... i'm sorry it's just ridiculous that's what it is it's just so much you know it feeds the base here we're getting back to the basics we're gonna take these kids are gonna graduate from you know and uh... from kindergarten next thing you know they'll be in university they'll be so smart well i thought the whole idea behind uh... kindergarten was to socialize kids get them get them familiar with the world around them a bit and that other other kids you know are different from them and to learn to you know behave yourself to adapt to your surroundings that's it's just that was basic learning now he's talking about coding does Mr. Lechy know coding? i'd love to know that good question if not maybe you should attend those classes but it seems i guess to a lot of people it's kind of quizzical i guess that they'd focus on something like this and i get it okay they want to you know here it's kind of a slow news week let's just put a good news story out there uh... you know the good news stories for the Ford government previously were you know they'd be up there with a bunch of workers with their hard hats and a big uniform over behind them we're gonna build a highway here uh... that's probably not a wise move these days when they're looking at PR moves here uh... you know the RCMP is investigating uh... the whole thing with the green belt uh... about how these things are going to be funded etc etc and i don't know what's going to happen to the Ford agenda in 2024 uh... some of the stuff is going to get bogged down because of the RCMP investigation there were other investigations about uh... how they came to decide they were going to build these two new highways uh... and and i know these guys want to move forward on this agenda i think i'm sure you've seen the the television commercials right now they've got a lot of money so they're spending it on tv ads uh... and they're basically painting this blue sky picture of how everything is wonderful in Ontario people come here and they're learning the skills that they need for tomorrow he says we're building roads as soon as i saw that section of the commercial i thought no we're not you're talking about it but you're not building them because there's a big pushback on that i just wonder where these guys are right now are they spinning the wheels or is this really just an attempt to kind of paint this rosy picture that hopefully people are going to buy into well they're they're tossing it about because i mean uh... you know the the stink of the green bell has not been erased by any stretch of the imagination you talk about money they're spending money to paint bonnie crosby as the next thing to the devil uh... you know a rich devil you know that's you know got a house in the hamptons which is a lie and you know i'm it's just yeah i think they don't right now i think they're having trouble finding out where they're going because they seem to be they have in the rear view mirror that investigation and uh... i think that's really they're concentrating on that is having they're having difficulty looking into the future other things except the highway because he's got the he's got the developers breathing down his neck and say you better do something for us you didn't get the green belt so you better build a you know a four thirteen so we've got you know a road going through all our different properties there's that element of it and and i guess the question that uh... they're asking about it you know how this is going to move forward uh... it is is one of the ramifications of this going to be uh... i don't know that we're going to see a photo op of the first uh... shovel being turned for the highway four thirteen project that is he's talked about is really kind of tied himself to that uh... but a lot of people are conflating that with the greenbelt issue because it is going to go to the greenbelt lands uh... if in fact it's ever going to get constructed uh... is is is the the ford agenda on hold right now i mean i and again we have to paint this picture of the broad scope here there's no election in twenty twenty four there's going to be an election for a long long time here but you know you look at the uh... the latest polling here that indicates that there's some major concerns here in this uh... province now about ford and about his policies and about his agenda right now do they take this opportunity in twenty twenty four to to rejig that or is it going to be you know dam the torpedoes and full speed ahead I'm just going to switch the channel just a slight bit here bill service ontario you saw those announcements yeah i was going to do that service ontario out of the communities and they're going to put it in the big box stores well did you ever hear anything about that in the election? no of course not uh... did they tell anybody about that was there any consultation with the public whatsoever again it's just this government seems because they have majority they can just do whatever the heck they like and that is going to blow back on them sooner or later people are going to say hey you just can't do that what how much is it going to cost what's the benefit going to be there's so many questions like for example the uh... minister of transportation was on the other day on cbc radio and asked how much is this 413 going to cost and he just gave uh... you know uh... talking points and didn't answer the question they won't tell you how much that's going to cost and they won't tell you the uh... you know the crosstown in toronto when that's going to be finished everything about this government seems to be behind the curtain behind closed doors with certain groups and the public gets to know what happened after the fact with this situation though we can talk about the greenbelt situation because that's something that i think we learned a lot about in the last year because of the investigation by the auditor general and others and that exposed the bot which i suppose motivated the RCMP to start their official inquiry and investigation into it but there's a common thread here that you and i have talked about since ford took office uh... seems like a hundred years ago now uh... and that is is doug ford in that for the people of ontario to make this a better province a better community for where you live or is this really an opportunity for him to to basically you know handout favors to his buddies and to his supporters uh... it happened with with you know the appointment of his idea of an appointment for the OPP commissioner i mean he wasn't even getting it they didn't even put the curtains up in his office at queen's park when he started pulling that and said i'll decide that my buddy is going to be the OPP commissioner and it's gone on and on every one of these controversial decisions the common theme seems to be and the question is uh... as our legal friends would say who benefits uh... and usually it's people that made huge contributions to the ford campaign even this thing about service ontario kiosks right now who's the major beneficiary staples the guy that runs that company was a major supporter and financially otherwise of the ford campaign i mean how dense does he think people are right now well but they have a majority they don't care but they will care as we get closer to the election time because people are going to say who do you represent whose interests are you out there for and and and uh... certainly small business people will tell you he's done nothing for them in ontario uh... he's you know looked after you know the big box stores and you know during during the you know pandemic and otherwise and just recently with the service ontario the big question is who are you trying to help and the public is going to is looking and saying well i don't see any benefits what you'll do things for your pals you'll do things for the big you know the big companies small business and the ordinary joe are looking at it and saying you know what what how are we benefiting our hospitals you go to the hospital you wait interminably to be looked at uh... the health care system you know not certainly a dream but darn near that's that's the thing bill you and i do that's where we see the benefit of living in the province of ontario and we're not seeing the benefit of it because the situations in turmoil there's another element of this too and uh... i know you've got a close association with the ontario provincial police great police service here in the province of ontario uh... and that has to do with license stickers and i'll tell you the reason why i'm coming up on my birthday in a couple of weeks now and the routine member used to be okay you go in and get your your license re-do it on your birthday and uh... you know okay here's the notice i go there get the sticker you pay the money for however many years you want to do this of course ford member about a year or so ago said no you don't have to do that anymore you don't have to get the sticker but apparently a part of that legislation that you and i talked about at the time you still have to re-do your fee you still have to pay an annual fee and the LPP and somebody in the ministry i guess released a report a few weeks ago that said they're shocked and concerned about the number of people that haven't bothered to do it well that's because a lot of people don't think they need to well you know i don't need to get a sticker anymore so if you get stopped at a roadside thing and the LPP officer looks at you and says well your license hasn't been renewed you're driving with an expired license or whatever you're going to say how would i know you know you don't keep track of these things but that's a consequence that they never really thought about you know he's just thought about hey i'm going to save you fifty five bucks a year but it could cost you an awful lot of grief down the road literally. I think the fine is something like a hundred and twenty five bucks or something like that for having an out of date VELTAG as we call it and the point is you still have to register you don't have to pay anymore you don't have to pay a thing anymore but it still has to be registered on your birthday or that and people you know all the time are stopped because like you said they've just forgotten about it since they don't have to pay for it anymore and so it's kind of meaningless for them so you have people that you know are driving around with a VELTAG that's three and four years old well they get stopped and they say your VELTAG is out of date here's your ticket a hundred and twenty five bucks yeah approximately and I've seen on social media some people that have run into that situation they're very concerned about this the other elephant in the room that I wanted to ask you about which is why we started off this conversation on the podcast yesterday talking about changing the channel is that the report the government's own report that came out last week about housing starts and of course you know the Premier has promised millions of houses I mean I'm overstating it of course as he often does you know this is how many housing starts we're going to deal with this crisis they're woefully short of their goals there's no way they're going to attain this right now and they just seem to shrug this report off and say well you know tough economic times etc this is a crisis I mean we've got people still living in tent encampments in cities towns and villages now right across this province we'd want to put a roof over their head they're not building houses and I know it's not specifically to the blame of the Ontario government I mean all three levels of government have to share in the concern here but they're not moving the needle here and they're not doing what needs to be done uh... and and this is one of these issues that I guess you know unless this impacts you are people paying attention to this right now I mean you know you need only look around the city encampments and see uh... the renovations that are going on in different parts of the province right now is this a problem that the province is only paying lip service to or do you see any concrete ideas to try to alleviate some of the stress that's on that particular area of the market well you won't believe this Bill most people probably won't but there is so much still in effect that was downloaded from the you know Mike Harris days and much of this has been thrown at the doorstep of municipalities to look after like social housing and you know affordable housing that kind of thing and that was that was never something that uh... prior to that municipalities had to worry about and that now we we we have a province or provincial government says oh yeah leave it with us we'll look after it well we knew that that was just hyperbole that you know whatever million homes he was going to build or whatever nonsense and you're right it's just it's come to the point where it's almost a tragedy because people just don't have a place to live and people you know they don't have the money to to you know to get an apartment at two thousand twenty five hundred dollars a month uh... so where are they going to go the street a tent is that a place for anybody to live no it's not but it doesn't seem it doesn't seem to matter for a government that could care less about it because their interests are elsewhere it's not with the homeless it's not with people you know or you know rent evictions they're they're just not it it's certainly looks to me that they're just not interested that's what it comes down to well quick question as we kind of put a wrap on on this whole conversation uh... you know the other thing i said all this to say this uh... is bonnie crombie up to the job to bring these these focus and these issues to focus uh... when the legislation gets back to work in the middle of february and moving forward because the big criticism a lot of people had in twenty twenty three uh... was uh... a week opposition at queens park uh... with all due respect to marcelle she was relatively new to the job and i know that she's attempted to make some inroads here uh... but can the opposition hold these people accountable for some of these issues and make us care more than we seem to be caring about them now well it's pretty hard to do that when you don't have a seat in the legislature is that yeah that that's a big part anybody who follows provincial politics or federal or provincial politics to be uh... a voice kind of nattering from the outside loses it's effect but in the house where you can hold their feet to the fire it's a whole different ballgame she's going to have to move quickly to get a seat in the legislature prior to the election uh... you know she's she needs that runway if you will to build up her name her presence and i don't know what how quickly that's going to happen but if i was advisor i would be telling me you better talk to somebody right now about either giving up their seat or or running in a by-election maybe that's not even in your own writing but just get in the legislature uh... i hope i hope that uh... you know what what she's thinking i had a discussion with our good friend steve bacon about this uh... a couple of weeks ago now and then he brought up an interesting point he said you know given the fact that she's been of the leader of the third party uh... they get very little time in question period that need they're not an opera there's not much of a platform there he's he said he she might be better off uh... staying there in the gallery watching what's going on and spending their time going around the province not unlike what uh... justin trudeau did uh... in in parliament when he became the leader of the liberals who were the third party uh... you know harper constantly criticized him for not being in the house he was out uh... making sure the canadians knew who he was uh... usually it did pay off of course he won the federal election went from third to first now i'm not suggesting bonnie crombie is going to use that as a strategy uh... but there is something to be said i mean you you were in that press gallery for a lot of years at queen's park uh... and you know that the scrums down on the second floor right after the session's over she could just as easily walk down the stairs from from the gallery and and answer questions or make statements uh... whether or not you know she's she's going to get the kind of uh... feedback from them and the kind of uh... public exposure may be another question but is it really that necessary for the leader of the third party to be there for question period or is their time better spent well you can do both i mean mike harris was a member and he traveled all over the province and like i said before he would have gone to the opening of an outhouse i mean it was that he would go to church basements whoever wanted to see him and he he did it while he was doing the house of course he wasn't there a lot of time but that's fine i believe that you have to have a presence in the legislature so people can see who you are and the kind of work that you're prepared to do to become a leader and uh... you know i know a lot of people like steve disagree with me but uh... i tell you that i don't see it i don't see not sitting in the legislature uh... well we we've seen it federally you know or not federally but certainly provincially where leaders of parties didn't have a seat in the house well where are they now yeah exactly so i i think that's important bill just before before we sign off here you saw a robert benzi story this week about the the uh... email that showed the inner sanctum of the doug ford knew exactly knew exactly what that greenbelt business was all about and was directing amato ryan amaro, poor old ryan amato who's been now the scapegoat to take certain lands out of that greenbelt it's right in the email that was obtained by the uh... through freedom information by the NDP most people didn't believe doug ford when he said that anyway but there's living proof that they knew exactly what was going on it just it just wasn't steve clark's baby and he was operating as some kind of side individual on this whole thing well which begs the question of course even with that, if you were an unbeliever when ford was making those statements essentially saying you know it's not my job as the premier to make those my ministers do that well that's BS and we know that but are people going to care i mean because if rob benzy had that email and ran that story uh... the RCMP certainly have it too uh... as they continue with their investigation uh... but that's going to be subject for another podcast when you join us about exactly what the ramifications of that RCMP report are going to be uh... and whether or not people are going to pay much attention to it which again goes back to my point uh... but it's going to be up to the opposition to to myrish stiles and to bonnie crombie uh... to hold the government's feet to the fire because they're going to have a lot of ammunition in twenty twenty twenty four that seems pretty obvious yeah there's no shortage of stuff that they can go after and uh... that's why i'm saying the green belt will uh... you know that's the spaghetti that's sticking against the wall uh... richard always a pleasure to have you on the program today thanks as always i know it's going to be a very busy year and uh... we look forward to future discussions with you too as those stories unveil take care we'll talk again soon thanks bill richard brennan of course retired journalist for the toronto star who covered both queens park and the parliament hill for so many years and that's it that's the way we see it this week the bill kelly podcast critical discussions in critical times until next time bill kelly 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