PODCAST FINAL CUT + EDITed edit

Sushi? That's what my ex-wife called me. Cold fish. Hey, idiwa. He say you on the iris, Mr. Teka. Got the wrong guy, pal. He say you Blade Runner. Tell him I'm eating. Ryan, huh? Nee, dat was ik. We zijn klaar. Nu naar de intro. Welkom, iedereen, bij Just Yassin. Ryan, huh? Beginnen we met de intro, of doe ik nu zomaar? Dekker en Gaff, neem verticaal af. All those moments will be lost in time. Like tears in rain. Time to die. In de rainy neon-bright L.A. Retired cop Rick Deckard, a.k.a. The Tech, is forced to return to duty to hunt and kill four rogue humanoid robots called Replicants. During his hunt, he falls for another rogue Replicant called Rachel and is forced to face the question of what makes a human a human. Nice work. Nu de intro dan. Welkom, iedereen. Welkom, welkom. Welkom, iedereen. Welkom, welkom. Welkom, welkom. Welkom, welkom. Welkom, welkom. Welkom, welkom. Welkom, welkom. Welkom, welkom. Welkom, welkom. Welkom, welkom. Welkom, welkom. Welkom, welkom. Welkom, welkom. Welkom, welkom. Welkom, welkom. Next to me I have... Lennon. Soraya. And... Luna. Our lovely sound guy. Today we will discuss the movie Blade Runner from 1982. And first things first, let's start it off with a movie review. Pretty good. Next. Alright, let's talk about the symbolism of eyes in the movie. Because in the beginning, the beginning scene, we start off with an all-seeing eye from Deckard. And what do you guys have to say about that? I believe Onur had a pretty interesting theory about this, actually. Onur, please. The way I see it, the way they interpret it in the movie is that the eyes sort of are like the window to the soul. Sort of, you can tell a lot by looking at someone in the eye. You hear it a lot, look me in the eye and tell me you're not lying. Things like that, and I think you just see it in the movie again and again. The eyes never lie, chico. Alright, wrong movie. So, throughout the movie we see that there are some owls and their eyes are reflective, right? So, what do you guys feel when I say the eyes don't only see, but also reveal? What's an emotion, what's a thought that comes into your head? Lennon. I think in this movie the replicants' eyes are, they're manufactured so they don't have human properties so they can't dilate. And in that sense you can see more about them through the eyes than through their mind. Is that the test? Because they can't dilate? I think so. I don't see Rachel's eyes dilating. Oh, I didn't even know that. Alright, that's actually pretty interesting. That's a good analogy. And notice how also when Roy Batty wanted to expand his life, the first person that he visited was the creator who created his eyes. Why do you think he visited that person? As Roy says, humans won't believe the things I've seen with your eyes. So, he just went there, I guess, to probe him for his boss? Yeah, a means to an end. Yeah, in the movie they also say at the start that the creators are a very difficult person to reach. So, afterwards as well, when they get from the eyes person, they get information about the guy who made the bodies and everything. And the way to get to the creator is through basically a chess match. I just have one more thought, I think. I forgot who Sebastian is in the movie, what he does, but he leads them to Tyrell. I think he used to work at Tyrell. Yeah, I forgot what he made, but the guy with the eyes is the guy in the ice cave. Sebastian is the guy that created the bodies. The guy that has the house with all the... Yeah, he makes the robots. There was also one scene where J.F. Sebastian said to Roy, you're a part of me, or I'm a part of you or something. Because he has a condition that makes him age faster. Yeah, I think he made that up. I think he's mentally stunted. So, he said he couldn't get up to space because his pores grew too fast. I think he's simple. He's a very simple guy. So, I think he's just mentally stunted and that's why he couldn't get up to space. But he was smart enough to still make the robots because he's sort of mindless and just does the immoral things, but he doesn't see the immoral failures. The scene of Deckard and Rachel, where Deckard forcefully kissed Rachel. Soraya, do you have any thoughts, opinions that you wish to share about this particular scene? Well, the first question that comes to mind is, do we know if Deck himself is a human? I think that matters for this scene because would he as a human kiss a replicant or did he do it because he's a replicant himself? Many thoughts, many questions. Yes, I have a lot of questions. I think Deck doesn't show any romantic or friendly connection with humans. He only has a connection with Rachel. True, the replicant. Yes, so I think maybe he saw something of himself in her because he is a replicant. Yes, because at first he thought that she was human as well. He can see her as a human. He can see himself as a human. Yes. Because he's never performed a test on himself and it took a hundred questions for her. Do you think that maybe she could also see him as a possibility to create new memories? Because obviously he was the reason that she found out that everything that she thought was her life was actually a lie. So do you think that that has any influence? Diego, what do you think? I think they could definitely make memories. It will be different than how we make memories or how we look back on those memories. But it's definitely something new. But do you think that that's the reason that she stayed with him? Not necessarily. I think just something new, something different. She doesn't know what she is, so he doesn't know either completely. So they're going to explore it, see how far they come. Do you guys believe that humans need closure just as much as replicants do? Onur, what is your thought on this? The needing of closure I think is a big question, but I think simply not. I don't think that is... I think that's more on the emotional aspect. I think the replicants lack emotions of some sort at least. They lack some emotion. However, you did see Roy Batty and Pris kiss, for example. Like he was her love interest. So how do you see that? I don't think necessarily it's an emotional connection. The way I saw it, or the way I see it, is more so that it's an attempt to replicate humans. That's the way I see it. I have a thought. Near the end when Pris dies, Roy does say goodbye there. He does get his closure. So I think by the end of the movie they are emotionally developed enough to feel the emotions but not understand them. It's their new emotions. So I do think they develop them. I do think they have them and they experience them. That's why Roy saves Dec at the end. Because he does feel that death is an important part of life. He does understand it. It's very emotional. I just have one thought on Roy and Pris' relation. They begin to be together out of necessity and then develop emotional connections out of being together. And experiencing human life as human as they can have it. That was a very nice analogy. Thank you guys so much. A round of applause, please. That was very lovely. So speaking of human identity, humanity. Let's just cut right down to the chase. Is Decard a replicant, yes or no? I'll go last. I think it is up for interpretation. I think that was also the point of the movie. For everyone to have their own take on this. In my opinion, it would make it more interesting for him to be a replicant. But I would assume that he would probably be a human. Because that's kind of what they initiate. Your first thought wouldn't be, oh, he's a replicant. So let's say we do not leave it open for interpretation. Let's just interpret it. Interpret it so bad. So Diego, can you tell me something about how he didn't test on himself? Do you think that Decard is a replicant? And does it even matter? I would say it doesn't really matter. I think, of course, I agree with what Therese said. That they leave it up to interpretation. And my interpretation is that it doesn't matter if he's a replicant or not. They show equal or even more signs of humanity. As you can see in the final scene, Roy is the one you can relate to the most. Throughout the whole movie, he showed the most humanity. And I don't think it really matters. As long as it doesn't come in the way of other people's life or other people's beliefs. Why not? But it kind of did, though, right? He is a bounty hunter for replicants. So if he's a replicant, then he's killing himself. Yeah. Maybe he doesn't like his own sword. Maybe he doesn't want to be a replicant. Or maybe he doesn't know it yet. He is in denial most of the movie. I don't think he knew he was a replicant at the start. No, he doesn't know. I think throughout the movie, he... I can't say for certain that he discovers that he's a replicant. But he's going through that process of discovering, like, OK, what am I doing here? What do I want to do? And at the end, he just wants to go with Rebecca, find out. Rachel. Oh, yeah. No, I think it would matter if he was a human or a replicant because his job is to kill replicants. And his boss, the way he speaks to them is kind of... He's talking down to them. He doesn't see them as an equal. That's a great point. But, like, what was up with the unicorns, though? Oh, oh, oh. So I know about this. So we see the unicorn. Who was it who folded the unicorn? Gav. Gav. I think that it symbolizes the way that he felt because unicorns kind of symbolize freedom and your own uniqueness. So that's what a unicorn stands for. I think it also plays a significant... It plays a significant role in this movie. I think the unicorn is an implanted memory and Gav folding the origami unicorn is just proof of him knowing that he is replicant and just dropping hints. That's why we know that Gav had a dream about a unicorn. It might be a coincidence. It might not be. I think nothing is a coincidence in this movie. I would agree. I think the director did it on purpose so you can leave the theater with the thought yourself so you can fill in the gaps. As everyone knows or didn't know, the film is based on a book, Andrew's Dream of Electric Sheep. I think the book is more philosophical and then the main point is to figure out are these replicants human or not? A characteristic of a book is also that it leaves a lot open to your own interpretation because you do not get to see these characters. You get to see them inside of your own mind. If we talk about interpretation, if you look at the movie, it was set in 2019. If you look at 2019 five years ago, do you see any similarities from what they displayed in the movie to 2019 you experienced? I think morally and socially, there are some accuracies. Obviously, the over-dramatization of the future, futuristic, post-neo-noir, all those things, like the very futuristic societies is not accurate at all because we're flying cars still waiting. We do have AI, which kind of... We didn't have AI in 2019 though, right? No, we didn't. It was still developing. Not developers now, but... Not now, but it was around. Then let me ask it this way. Maybe not exactly 2019, but maybe around this time. The next movie is... 2049. Also, try to see it not just how we see flying cars in the movie, but more so how society portrayed in that movie and how they see society now. I do think like that. That's a better question. It is very critical of capitalism, this movie, which I think now is more relevant than... Well, maybe not more relevant than in the 80s, but I think the development of... I guess the abuse of corporations is now more rampant than it was then and more obvious and blatant. And I think this movie does portray this latency of abuse. That's very nice. What about the cultures? Can you guys say something about that? Yeah, I think all your brainstorming years, I thought about the melting pot and... Yeah, that we... Of the cultures that was very diverse. Which I think that is more accurate now than it was in the 80s. And that helps us to understand different cultures. Do you guys think that the development of the melting pot in our society helps us to, in this movie, helps the people to understand the replicants? No, I think this movie does focus on class struggle, specifically. And they make the replicants a lower class. So it's not like a race thing. It's definitely a class struggle between replicants. And I guess the working of the corporate level of people in this movie, it is not like they're different because they look different. They're different because they physically are different in my mind. So to retrace our steps prior to the question that Onur made about if androids are people and about the novel of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? We have here... I'm gonna tell you guys a word. I'm gonna tell you the meaning. And then I'm gonna ask you what you guys think of that. My question, are androids people? Is Deckard a person? Is he a replicant? We have here sentience. So sentience is an ethical view that places sentient individuals at the center of moral concern. So basically, all living things we think and feel should be treated morally. That's what we see with vegans, for example. The reason that they don't kill pigs or kill animals in general is because they're sentient beings. Because they feel, they think, they experience. Do you guys believe that we can kill something that is sentient? Would it be morally right or wrong? If this question relies on sentience alone, I think it's very gray. Because plants, they see. Plants, they feel. Plants are like screams when you cut them. That's more recent development in science, but it is a thing. So they are... Plants scream? Yeah. Grass screams when you cut it down. I'm never picking a flower again. Don't we already do this? We kill so many animals. We already do it. So I don't even think it's a question. If you leave it up to sentience alone, you can't kill anything which doesn't make anything harder. But in this movie, it's not sentience. It's how they're made. They don't take their sentience into consideration. Yeah. Also, a big part of it is they're not human because they don't have their own memories. That's also... But what about Rachel? Rachel has memories that aren't her own. True. But she experiences them as their own. So then it's the question, are they hers because she experiences them or are they hers because she has experienced them? Wow. That's a deep question. Wow. Wait, what was your question again? Are the memories she experiences hers because she does experience them as memories or because she has experienced them in life to make them memories? I mean, make the memories. She wasn't there. I think it's only a memory if you experienced it yourself and put in your own input. She couldn't control what was in the memories that were already made. So they aren't really hers. Then it's the question, how would you know they're not hers without seeing the files like Beck did? Without the files, you wouldn't know. She doesn't even know herself. Yeah. But Beck is a police officer, so he's accessed those files. If you met Rachel and she was telling a story from her childhood, you wouldn't know they were in her memories. So that's one of the questions. Do you guys think that Rachel would become a human if she never met Deckard? I mean, technically she was a human before she met Deckard because she didn't know she was a replicant. It was afterwards that when he did the test, that's when they found out. And later in the movie, he tells her that, yeah, you are a replicant. So she might have been better off without him, maybe just living in the delusion of thinking you're a human. It might have made her happier. Ignorance do be a bliss. Yeah, exactly. But it's interesting that you said that though because you said, Diego, that she was a human before she met Deckard. Yeah, but that's what I think is the fun part about this movie because it's to trigger these kinds of discussions and questions. Where do we draw the line? Where do we register someone as, okay, they're human enough or they're sentient enough? For me, Rachel is sentient enough or she is part of us. She's human enough. I have something. If you guys look at the question, whether she is human or she's not human, why don't you look at it as why does it have to matter in this case especially? I mean, if they are programmed to be as human as possible to the naked eye, we can see them as human, then why would it matter if she's a human or not? Yeah, that's also the main character's question as he's killing those replicants, right? At first, he doesn't really think about it because replicants, we need to kill all of them. And then later on, he's like, wait, they are human. So it's kind of the main character's thought process. Also, the question of when are you human enough to be considered human is kind of, in this world, it's an arbitrary question because there is no definition of being human. It's just, I guess, if your memories aren't yours, you're not human. But also, if you experience those memories, you are. So it's kind of still iffy. Yeah, I agree. Very iffy indeed. Continuing, if the memories and the moments decide whether someone is human or not human, let's talk about the ending scene with Rob and... Roy. His name is Roy. It was Rob. Excusez-moi. I know how that feels. With Roy Batty and... Roy Batty. And Dek. Smash. Smash your pat. Alright, the ending scene with Roy and... Our Dutch king. Roy and Dek. And Dek. Who wants to say something about this? I do. His famous lines, Roy's famous last lines, were something with... It's time to die, what was it? Memories lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. Yes. The wonderful 80s. So cliché. Yeah. So that's the most famous line of the whole movie. I think this scene is very important also because it proves that Roy, as a replicant himself, turns out to be the most human creature in the whole movie. And that is also kind of an answer to the main question, are replicants human? Well, yes, they are. Because in that scene, when Roy kind of tries to kill Dek but then saves his life, that's the most human scene there is in the movie. I think in the chase scene, I don't think Roy ever has the intention to kill Dek. I think he wants Dek to see that he is a perfect version of him and that he does have more emotion than a human. He does have more feelings than Dek does about everything that's happening. Because he does break his fingers out of revenge. He has revenge in his mind. And in the end, where he says, memories lost in time, he understands memories and time and crying and rain. And he's a robot. He's trying to make Dek see he is a person. I think that's also why Dek does fall in love with Rachel. What's your take on this, Diego? I would largely agree with what Soraya said about the fact that it is the most humane part we see throughout the movie. After all, chasing and killing replicants and asking all the questions, he shows you a piece of his humanity. The things he has seen with those eyes, the things he has gone through, which you don't think about. It's just a replicant. You don't think what they have gone through. So I think it's a perfect end to a movie because it leaves you thinking, what should we do? Should they continue retiring these replicants or should they leave them be? That's a good question, actually. What do you guys think? Should they retire the replicants or should they just leave them be? No, because of the fact that they could even make those replicants, even if they would kill all of those replicants now, they would, maybe even in the future, still seem to exist again. It's kind of like AI. Do we want to have it? I don't know, yes or no. It doesn't really matter because it's already there. Even if we try to stop it, it most definitely will reappear. The AI analogy is good because once they're made, they're made. They're there. And all the vendors, the people that supply the parts, they're all kind of shady, black market characters. So if they wanted to keep making these replicants, they just will. Sebastian has the cave with the little robots and the toys, so he knows how to make them. He goes to Sebastian. He just gets all the parts. So if they're made, they're made. It's too late. And with AI, at this point they're, I guess, kind of coding themselves. And I think this is the same. If a replicant is made to make replicants, you just have replicants and nobody would know. I think it's more so if you take this kind of idea of should replicants live? Should they exist? Because they are already created. I think you can make a connection to modern life. As we see, for example, if you look at union workers, they will go on strike. And I think it's the idea that maybe you'll see a bunch of replicants go on strike and advocate for human rights, for example. You can take that into consideration as well. Make a possible uprising of some sort. I think the strike is good. I think if there's enough of them eventually and they're all made to just work and they're this smart that they have emotions, they will understand that they're being mistreated. And they'll see themselves looking like, acting like, and speaking and thinking like humans and just wonder why. So I think once that question is posed, you're on trail for either a revolution or you need to kill all of these replicants that you've made and put into existence and given a brain. All right. Thank you guys so much. Thank you guys so much. Is there any last words? Oh, I had one more question. So do we think, no, do we consider this movie to be an epic? No. Epic fail. Epic fail. Epic fail. It's like Ben-Hur and London, Arabia. They're like scenes of 100,000 horses in the desert. Oh, it's like big army scenes. This is very... We're not laughing at you. We're laughing with you. I'm laughing at the horses. I'm not laughing with you. I think we're done, you know? Okay. I mean, let's give Soraya a round of applause. Thank you for your input. You're so funny. She's gone. Wrap it up. Any last... Wait. Do you still have one? Okay. Last question. Last prompt. Was it a question or a prompt? Or a thought? Or a POV? Or was it a fit? What was it? I think if you want to have a better insight about the whole Replicant story or just have more answers to your question, is Deckard a human or not, I would highly recommend to watch the sequel. I think it's very good. I'm going to say you'll see Deckard again. And then you'll get some answers to... What? Spoilers! What? Spoilers! I have one addition. It's not to do with the movie, but if you want to see a real-life version of is it human or sentient, look in the brain organoids. It's a little... I talked about this in class. It's little balls of brain meat that they grow in labs. And they grow eyes. And they put them in rats and mice. What? It's as close to replicants as you can get. Wait, what are you... It's little clumps of... Brain? Yeah, it's brain organoids. Organoids. Organoids. And they're made from stem cells from your spine. And they're grown. And they're little brains. And they think and they see. I think if I see the brain organoids, I'm going to be paranoid. And that brings us to our sponsors. Thank you, Brain Organoids, for sponsoring this podcast. Use code ORGANOIDS for 50% off. Okay, next. Eye. Were many brains grown from stem cells developed light-sensitive? That's a brain. This is a human brain. Do they serve it with a side of rice? I thought it was a shrimp. Like a shrimp's face. You can cover them in breading. They're great. All right. I enjoyed talking with all of you. Thank you guys so much. I hated it. If you guys would like to say your goodbyes, please. One for one. Two for two. You start. No, I have to... Oh, you're the host. Yeah. Goodbye! What the fuck? Bye! I want to say goodbye to my mom. Thank you for listening. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for listening. Thank you all so much for listening. And with all, we mean one person. Thank you, David. Love you, David. Wait, can I say bye one more time? Because I just yelled it. Yeah, of course you can. Okay. Bye! And with that, we wrap it. That was amazing. That was actually kind of fun. Yeah. All right. Do you guys have any more prompts, questions? I have one. I just wanted to know your guys' favorite shots from the movie. I'll start with mine. It was the opening shot, just because I have seen how it's made, and it's just bizarre. It's like all the little lights, they're individually pricked out of a black board that they then expose. It's cool. Love that. What about you, Diego? First shot in the movie. Yeah, I think the first shot is definitely one of them, but I would go for the interview scene right after that. It's very intense. You see the stress levels Leon has with the questions, and yeah, I would definitely give it either to the first scene or the second scene. That's also very Leon Noir. Yeah. What about you, Soraya? I would say the whole scene of Roy chasing... I forgot his name again. Roy? Yes. S**t. It's just mostly the scene that I talked about, the ending scene with Roy's famous last lines, because I think it really plays a significant... Significant. S**t. It plays a really important role in the movie. All right, what about you, Omer? I think my favorite part was... Or shot... I won't call it shot, just part was when they were... When Diego was zooming into a picture continuously over and over again. I think what he was zooming into, I think it was perfect. I really liked it. He zoomed in the mirror, which he banned away to see the reflection in the mirror. It's insane. I think I really liked that one. That was amazing. I also have one more question for you. Wait, what's your favorite movie? Oh, I'm sorry. We skipped. My favorite movie... I mean... What's your favorite movie? Tell her. My favorite shot of the movie was... It was also the beginning scene, but I'm going to choose a different one. I'm going to say... Weirdly, the Asian lady that they portray everywhere. I don't know why they do that. Yeah, the billboards are cool. Yeah, it's like so... I don't know. It's like giving like... In New York! I guess, so maybe New York is not different in 2019, right? Portraying Asian ladies on the billboard. I have one more. One more prompt on shots. What's your least favorite shot? If you have one. Mine was the dove in slow-mo. I thought it was so dumb. You should have kept the dove flying. Oh, wait. I also have one. The one where we hear his skull crack. Because I skipped that part. His favorite? Okay. I would say my least favorite is the shot where Briz is in the trash cans. I like the symbolism. I understand why it's there. But it looks very amateurish to me. It looks like a model shoot, you know? Yeah, it was very nice. She had a blanket and everything. Just so she could meet Sebastian. I really disliked the house of Sebastian. J.F. Sebastian. It was a great shot. I loved it. I hated it. He was on his own. It was so empty. It was so big. It made me feel so uneasy. The weird puppet, animal, human, replicant thingy. He's a freak. He do be a freaky man. I'm not trying to see all of that. You know what I mean? That was awesome. All the little robots. It was weird. I was eating and I was like, Ugh, this is weird. This is weird. If you don't like uneasy things, you could have said the one where Leon puts the eyes from the tank on the Maker's head. I didn't really mind that, actually. Really? I don't know. I was like, Oh, you know, he's just being a silly goose. I just hang around. I feel like that one is worse. Good old Leon. That's why he dies. Spoilers. Spoilers. Okay, Onur. What about you? I think Chris's acrobatic fight. What? No. That was so fun. I didn't think it was very... I didn't fit. I didn't fit. Whenever I saw it, I would just laugh. No, I like that. I didn't see the connection between her and Acrobat. She's like a super replica. Like, super cool. They're like perfect versions of replicants. So it does make sense that they're physically capable of more shit. But I didn't see the connection. I do agree it's kind of silly, but I did like it. Maybe they just hired the actress and then she was like, Do you know I could... I've actually played Acrobat. And I was like, yeah, okay, we could use that. Just do a flip. It's like Tom Holland's Spider-Man. Yeah, exactly. Or did you see Taylor Lautner in Twilight? He always does a backflip wherever he is. Yeah, Lautner.