E2 - final

At that time, the Saxons greatly increased in Britain, both in strength and in numbers. Then, the magnanimous Arthur, along with the kings of Britain, fought against them. Although there were many more noble than himself, he was chosen as their commander, their dux allorum. His first battle was at the mouth of the river Gline. His second, third, fourth and fifth battles were above another river, called the Duke Glass, in the region of Linous. The sixth battle was on the river Bassus. The seventh battle was in the forest of Caledon. The eighth battle was at the fortress of Gwinnon, in which Arthur carried the image of Holy Mary on his shoulders, and the pagans were put to flight on that day. And through the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, he put the Saxons to flight, and there was great slaughter upon them. The ninth battle was waged in the city of the Legion, the tents on the banks of the river Trebroy. The eleventh battle was fought on the mountain of Gregoyne, and the twelfth battle was on Mount Vadanus. And in one day, nine hundred and forty men were struck down by Arthur's hand alone. And in all the battles, he emerged as victor. Hello, welcome back to Mad Dogs of Cambria. It's me, Cambrian Chronicles, and the other person you're listening to is also me, doing my best impression of my friend Pat from the podcast Never Is Funny. That's right. Hello, I'm Cambrian Chronicles, doing an impression of my friend Pat from Never Is Funny. That's right, me. I sure am. I think I'm getting pretty good at it. In 2007, I, Cambrian Chronicles, ran over a small family of four in my Toyota Corolla. That's not true. There were seven of them. That was me being sarcastic, by the way. There were actually nine. I think we should do this for the rest of the whole podcast. That's what they say about jokes. It's always best the third time. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so, Cam, my brother, what are we talking about today? Today we're talking about, sort of, King Arthur, because you have to forget about that first bit. That's true, that's true. So, the bulk of what we're going to be talking about is the document we read from, which is a translation of the Historia Britannica. Do I have the name right? Yep. And we ended it with saying, Antonov Battles, Hume vs. Victor. But I think I remember you telling me that right after that, the last section of Arthur's basically talking about how it doesn't matter, it's a massive failure. Yeah, pretty much. The funny thing is, he doesn't even really talk about it. He says, oh, he's a victory, one of these battles, but they kept getting support from Germany, and that's when the kings came in, and then it goes into the king list, and Arthur's never brought up again. And from a historical context, you're supposed to assume that, ultimately, his victories were in vain. Yeah. Okay, so that's where that little passage ends. As we said, the passage is in the Historia Britannica. What actually is the Historia Britannica? Well, I'm glad you asked, because it's one of my favorite manuscripts ever, because it's such an interesting piece of work. I don't want to call it a story. Technically, it's not a proper classification, but it does tell a story, and it's a really, really interesting one. It's basically sort of a propaganda piece. It's promoting three things. It's promoting Christianity against the formerly pagan Saxons, although they were Christian by this time. It's also promoting the Welsh in opposition to the English, saying, oh, you know, we're number one. And then it's also promoting the kingdom of Gwynedd in North Wales. Yeah. Okay. At this time, you said they're no longer pagan. So the setup we've got, what time is it? 9th century? Yeah, early 9th century. It was written during, you'll find this funny, it was written during the reign of a king named Mervyn. Before King Craig and after King Kevin. I know a lot of people in poets, it's like old men who are named Mervyn. I've always found that name so funny, but no one else, you can't tell that joke to anyone else. It's written during his reign, which is like right at the start of the 800s. Okay. And he's reigning over what? Gwynedd. So like, basically, the north sort of third of Wales. Okay. Is Gwynedd kind of allied with the rest of, what would these be, Brythonic people? Yeah, they called themselves Britain still. Okay. The Historia Britannum puts Gwynedd on this big pedestal and being like, oh, they're, we're, you are going to be the big winners. They're going to unite the Britons and reclaim Britain and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. But at the time, they're in opposition to a lot of their neighbours because, you know, medieval politics is basically a bunch of very wealthy dictators arguing over who gets to control which bit of land. Right. Yeah. Okay. So even though it was this big nationalistic piece, about two thirds of the country were explicitly sort of excluded from it. Right. In a way. Didn't make it into the club. No. Okay. So we got Gwynedd saying that they're like representing the Britons. Yeah. And then we've got the other half of the country divided into the, is it, they're Anglo-Saxons at this point, right? Yeah. Well, they would have called themselves, some would have been called Angles, some would have called themselves Saxons. Okay. A group of people that you could label the Anglo-Saxons. Yeah. Both Christians. And so that means that we have this text being written by Gwynedd saying, we're better, we're better Christians than you. We're better in general. Yeah. What is it like about, what is it describing? Is it covering a certain time period? Yeah. It's essentially sort of trying to tell, well, it's in the title, the history of the Britons, but it's a very sort of odd way. And a lot of the details don't really corroborate with stuff that we know about. Right. But it's essentially trying to sort of tell a story of like how the Anglo-Saxons ended up in England, why the Britons had lost. And that was a key theme with a lot of stuff because the Britons were Christian. Therefore, if they were losing battles and losing land, that meant that God was like allowing it to happen. Okay. So they had to have an explanation for that. And the explanation that was commonplace was that they were like full of sin, like they weren't being good Christians at that time. Ah, okay. So because they weren't good Christians, they were being defeated by the Anglo-Saxons. They had this guy called Vortigern who may or may not have existed. Right. And he's portrayed literally as like a druid, like a wizard, pagan, a non-Christian who invites all these Saxons in and is like, yeah, you can stay, you can have this land. Please don't betray me. And because he's not Christian, they can betray him and he loses and he gets hit by lightning and his house burns down. It's very on the nose, there's no zero subtlety. And as this is a propaganda piece, from what I remember you telling me in the past, it's in response to something as well, right? I read somewhere that there's a hypothesis that it was a response to a guy named Bede. Yeah. He's commonly called like the father of English history. He wrote like... He's a saint, right? Yes. He's one of the earliest sources on English history. And he wasn't a super big fan of a lot of the Welsh and explicitly some of the Welsh kings because they killed a king he really liked who was Christian. And you know, that's not supposed to happen again. Yeah. God's not supposed to allow that to happen. That's why I find it interesting because it's almost like I'm trying to explain it to themselves and to like the people of their faith about how this could possibly happen. He's not a super big fan of the Welsh. Then there's some hypothesis that this is almost in a sort of response to that. God gives his hardest battle to his strongest Welshman. That is summing up the history of Britannia in a single sentence. Ah, perfect. Strongest Welshman being, of course, King Arthur. What a segue. What time period does it say it's talking about? So it's sort of in like from about the fall of Roman Britain, like 400s to what at the time was the present, the 800s. Yeah. And also prophesying for the future. Okay. Although they didn't put a date on that one, but... Yeah. Okay. So do we know when the Arthur stuff is taking place? Yeah, that's the tricky part. I suspected as much. If you see people talk about it, a lot of people say, oh, Arthur's like 4th century, 5th century because... Yeah. And that's unfortunately how a lot of it goes. Because the Historia Britannica gives a lot of battles to Arthur and a lot of them are very much unknown. And the ones that we do know of are given to other people in every other source. Right. So really dating Arthur using the Historia Britannica isn't possible. And it's not super clear to me if like the audience was supposed to think of these battles as belonging to Arthur. Because if you knew the history of the things, you would know that he wasn't at them and he wasn't attributed to them. Right. Historians have been arguing about this for a long time, whether like there's some old like poem that lists all these battles as his. Right, yeah. Or it wasn't supposed to be like fully like... Literal. Literal, yeah. If he's supposed to be like some sort of heroic figure who just did all these heroic deeds. Yeah. Okay, so we've got a bunch of context for what this document is, why it was written, who's reading and listening to it, all that stuff. In terms of specifically our King Arthur, God's Strongest Welshman. That would be a good podcast title. But why don't you tell us a bit about what it's actually saying about him in this? Because it's not super long. No, it really isn't. And I guess that might be a future episode about why this sort of very short figure, what happened after this and why he became so popular in Wales and in Britain and in all of Europe. Especially if he was only four foot. So he was a very short figure. In this time, he probably would have been quite short. The interesting thing that basically everybody always ignores, for reasons I don't understand, is that he isn't a king here. He's explicitly not a king. Sorry, I keep calling him King Arthur. I'm mistitling him. It's just Arthur. Yeah, it's just Arthur. He's the leader of battles. Everyone else is more noble than him. He was just their battle leader. It's almost overly implicit how much he wasn't a king. And you can see that, too, because none of the medieval Welsh monarchs ever claimed to be descended from him. He wasn't seen as a royal figure. He was just a guy. That's interesting. I have to go through it. So, yeah, let's do that. Yeah, so the Anglo-Saxons have arrived. And what's also interesting, a lot of people don't mention, is Arthur's not the first person to start fighting them. There's a guy before him who, in English, I believe, is usually translated to Vortimer. Yes. Is that the guy we mentioned earlier? He's his son. Vortigern and Vortimer. Ah, Vortigern and Vortimer. Yeah, and he goes to fight them in Kent, and he wins some battles and eventually loses and dies. So then Arthur comes along, wins some battles, and his is much more kind of broad. And it does stand out quite a bit because we don't know for certain where most of them took place, but they seem probably to have taken place mostly across sort of the north of England. Okay. So does that make sense geographically? To be fair, at this time, probably fighting anywhere in England would have made sense geographically. Okay. But yeah, he sort of fights these 12 battles all over England. But yeah, it does stand out a lot because he, unlike Vortimer, who just sort of fights in Kent and dies, he fights all over Britain. Yeah. And then still doesn't win. Yeah, but we don't know what happens. It's not said. No, and later stories would sort of make him like, oh, he's going to prophesize to come back someday. Yes. But that was quite a bit later. There's other ones which prophesize that he was like dead and buried, and his burial in Kent. In a mountain or something. Yeah, I did that on one of my videos, Protect the Mountains of Snowdon. Yeah. That was a bit later as well. Because I think we'll hop back and forth. At some point we should definitely do, we'll definitely cover Arthur in other time periods, I think. But just as a reference to way, way later stories, you know, King Arthur, Round Table, Lancelot, Merlin. If you think about Arthur, unfortunately, almost certainly what you've just thought of is something from the later stories. Yes. Which is fine because in a way, also, I quite like that because essentially everything ever about Arthur is perfectly valid because he's always just been a guy who's just assigned to things. Yes. He's given these battles, half of which are actually given to other people, spread across a hundred years. Well, I mean, when he becomes king in the later story, it's not, like, it's from pulling the sword, right? It's not... Yeah, that's a French story. That's even way later. That's like the 12th. Yes. But that's what I mean, like, even by that time, he is a king, but he's not king because of lineage. He's king... Yeah, because he's like pure of heart or something. Divine, right. Yeah. Yeah. And then later on in the Saint's Lives, he became king. They made him a king, but, like, a really bad one so they could, like, compare how saintly they were. Right, yeah. And so that's also quite funny because he seems like quite a paragon of Christianity in the history of Britain. And then the Saint's Lives are like, oh, this is an evil guy, Arthur. Evil King Arthur be like, I'm going to kill Britons now. He does, that's what happens. Let's hop back into the media reservoir we are. So we've got, oh, I think I got this right. We're around Vortigaunt first. Yeah, Vortigaunt invites the Saxons and his son Vortimer fights them. Oh, okay. They got Vortimer. Yeah, he's like the first Arthur that no one ever talks about. But he's like the prototype in the story. Okay. So Vortimer, Arthur, Arthur's fighting these battles all over mostly the north of Britain. Yeah, theoretically. And it leaves us, oh, yeah, so it says Arthur himself is the military commander, brackets, Dux Belorum. And this, I mean, I don't remember which translation we're reading. Is it important that they've made a note of saying Dux Belorum? Yeah, it means battle leader. Yeah. Dux was a title that the Romans used as, like, a military leader title. I believe it was used in Britain. I'm not super well versed in that side of history. It's sort of like a title, also sort of like just like a fact. He was their battle leader, explicitly not the king. They keep rubbing it in his face. This isn't about historical Arthur, really, but is that part of the whole, I don't know how based it is, but the theory of, like, oh, he was a Roman. He's actually a Roman general, that stuff. Yeah. Do you see someone claiming that, yeah, he's like a Roman or like a descendant of the Romans, like based off of, like, a memory of, like, Roman generals fighting Saxons? Yeah. And part of that could be true, but you always have to be cautious. Making a lot of leaps. Yeah. Or even, there's just so much that goes into this. If you just say, oh, I think part of it was probably memorized by Roman generals or post-Roman generals fighting the Saxons. Yeah. That's perfectly valid. If you say that he was entirely based off that, it completely stops making sense. Right. Because what were the Romans doing in 616 AD fighting the Saxons? That would be a brilliant story. It would be. But, yeah, a few more battles. Stuff about him carrying the image of Holy Mary, ever-virgin, on his shoulders. What is the image? Is that a flag? A shield? That's quite interesting because... Okay. So, I only know this because we talked about this before. But let me see if I can remember it. It's that the Latin or Welsh word for shoulders could be kind of interchanged with shield. So, you could possibly interpret it as saying it's like a painting of Mary on his shield. Yeah. The Welsh words are very, very similar. They're off by one or two letters, I think. Right. So, that's a theory. It's like, was he carrying a banner or a painting? It's not also impossible. Like, is a banner a flag? Carrying a painting? You know what I mean? Like a war banner. The same frame of painting. Like a war banner. We don't have a lot of proof of that happening either. Or was it like a depiction on his shield? Whichever way the story really intended to be. Again, it's an element of the story. Both are story elements. It could be either. And so, through power of Jesus and Mary, he's slaughtering them. Yeah. Again, is this happening with his predecessor, Vortimer? Is Vortimer also blessed by... I don't believe so. So, no. Vortimer, I think, has a bit of favor, if I can recall correctly. I think we're supposed to interpret him as sort of being a Christian comeback against this evil pagan dad who's soon pending, will be struck by lightning. Yeah. But then Arthur is the one who's literally, unironically, given the power of Christianity. Like, there's literally... The power of God and anime on my side. It's literally like it says. If I remember right, it does not say the power of... Yeah, power of love, conversion, and marriage. Yeah. So, some more battles, mostly just saying names of places. Yeah. And then, the twelfth battle, the last one, we suddenly got out of nowhere. It fell in one day. 940 men. Yeah. All struck down by Arthur himself. So, is that... I mean, is that... Obviously, that's crazy. But, is that... How crazy is that for this text? Like, the stuff before and after him, is that happening? Or is he unique even amongst these other... Well, it's actually, in two parts, it's interesting. In real life, obviously, a massive number, especially for... We don't know the super close the size of armies at this time, but they wouldn't have been very big. Right. The Welsh couldn't support super huge armies, like a few thousand. That's not just big for him killing them all himself, that's big even just in terms of being that size. Like, in terms of an army, that would be a significant portion. Right. But, we have to also, again, remember, this is a Welsh story. The Welsh love this sort of stuff. Right. To the point that it's almost kind of ridiculous. And this is, like, perfectly exemplary. In terms of a Welsh story, this does not stand out at all. If anything, it's quite underselling him. Okay. So, Arthur killing almost a thousand men is supposed to be a quite big accomplishment, but it's not that standout. It's very typical Welsh warrior literature. Yes. It would be the kind of thing you'd read out, and all the warriors would be like, Hey! Right, yeah. Okay, that's fire. But, yeah, so, striking down that many men, not necessarily uncommon. In Welsh stories, yeah. Is it known how mystical you're meant to interpret this as? Because it, I mean, obviously 960 men is a lot, but stuff like the power of Jesus Christ, like, is that meant to be, oh, they won the battle, and we know they won so well because their due's on their side, or is it literally meant to be, like, you know, lightning striking down? No. Well, I mean, to be fair, that guy did get struck by lightning. I think it was supposed to embolden this sort of, like, they won because they were, like, the good Christians. The same way they lost before because they were the bad Christians. Like, okay. So, yeah, in a way, the 940 men being crazy big to us, but in terms of these stories, they're massive. Yeah. That's not necessarily saying this guy's a super-powered, he's just a really good, another strong- Yeah, and he had, like, divine favor. He wasn't, like, divine intervention. Yeah, okay. It's like he had the favor. Yeah. He's not, like, shooting lasers out of his eyes or anything like that. Sadly not. Although, again, like I said, if you were to write a story about him doing that, that would be perfectly valid. Yeah. That's what he is, in essence. Laser-eye Arthur with his troop of rugged soldiers. Okay, so, yeah, we got that. And then defeating all the battles. And then, yeah, the Saxons who are, I mean, we really get the vibe just about this whole passage, the way that they're flooding in. It's quite scary and, like, effective, which makes sense, I guess, because, you know, they're portraying these are their big enemies that they, despite everything, managed to overcome. But the Saxons are flooding in. So, they're coming from Germany? Yeah, that's where the Saxons came from originally. The Angles and the Saxons. We know from DNA tests much more recently, it's like the north of Germany, the Netherlands, and France as well, like the Franks. Yeah. And all the way up to, like, Denmark, and I think a bit of southern Sweden as well. So, that whole broad area, over centuries, people just sort of slowly come across. I mean, this is another broad question, I guess. But why? Like, why do all these different groups and tribes that are making up the Saxons, why are they all coming over to this tiny island? Like, who cares? Why do they care? Well, that's a very debated question. Right. Yeah, I reckon Mark Morris' book on the Anglo-Saxons, the one I read on that last... I've seen suggestions before that Romans would hire, like, foreign armies to help guard the coasts. Oh, okay. And a lot of those people in Britain would have been Germans. They would have hired the Germans to protect against the Irish raids and the Pictish raids in the north. Right. And then, when, like, Roman authority collapses, we have evidence of these sort of Germanic people, Germanic burials already existing before the Roman authority collapsed. Oh, okay. So, it's hypothesized that there were these groups of soldiers already. They may have had their own little political units and they could have just invited people over. Yeah. Because it's a bit, like you said, one of the big questions, like, why across this random sea, which is not a super unperilous journey to an island that was pretty destitute. Yeah. It seems to have just been a very, very slow and long process. That's, I think, an interesting point. I mean, you've talked about this before in your own content, but the general consensus now, historically, right, is that, because the idea we have, and the idea that's included in, like, this story, is that it's this big invasion and it's a bunch of Saxon soldiers and they're coming in and they're slaughtering and they're conquering, which, it sounds like there was fighting going on, but as far as I'm aware, the general consensus now is it's much more like it's a process of centuries of gradual immigration and... Yeah, and assimilation, and it's called the prestige model, where, like, if Anglo-Saxons were in charge of these little political units, Prothonic speakers would have to learn English to communicate with the leaders, and that's how the language spreads. And there was violence, obviously. We have records of violence from, like, both sides. Yeah. But not, like, an organized invasion. No, we have records of shared burials. We have records of Prothonic people, DNA being buried with very high-value trade goods, like the Anglo-Saxon warriors. Oh. We have records of Prothonic kings in English territories. The dynasty of Wessex, which would go on to form England, was started by two kings who had Welsh names, Cadwason and Ceredig. Yeah. It's very much a sort of much slower process of just, like, a lot of people arriving. Which, again, how much does that call into question the stuff that's going on here? Because obviously there were battles. Yeah, we know there were battles. Was there, like, an organized... Yeah, it's difficult to know if there was any sort of organized resistance to these Anglo-Saxon kingdoms... Yeah. ...forming. Because obviously at this point in time they're describing themselves, Gwynedd and the Britons and the Saxons. Yeah. Way back at this point in time, would they have called themselves those things? Yeah, I mean, there were still Britons, but, like, we have records of Britons existing all the way in Eastern England until, like, the 11th century, I believe it was. Okay, so that does line up, that stuff. Yeah. That's what I mean. Like, it wasn't just, oh, Britons over here, Saxons over here. It was a very mish-mashed... Yeah. ...specialty in England. Okay, that makes sense. So kings over Germany, you might remember Britain, and then we've got more lists of kings. How big is the history of Britannia? Like, how much is Arthur... It's like a percentage. Arthur is, like, in a... I think it's in just the one chapter. Yeah. And then he's gone. He's really not a big figure. And again, we can do that in a few trips about what happened to make him so popular, but he really wasn't a big figure. And at the time, he also wasn't seen as that much of a big figure. He was a sort of the second round of attacks that failed. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. So we've... Yeah, Arthur happens quite early on in the tale, and then presumably the rest of the document is the next few centuries of Britons fighting Saxons, basically. Yeah, it's just, like, the English arriving and, like, the prophecy that they'll fight them off again and stuff like that. Okay. And just to be clear, this prophecy, this hasn't got anything to do with Arthur. This isn't... No, well, yeah, it's supposed to have been, like, three rounds, and on the third round, they'll push the Englands away. The Englands? The English away. Yeah. And Arthur was the second round, so the third round's supposed to, like, theoretically happen soon, probably supposed to be from the kings of Gwynedd or something like that. Yeah, just got to wait for the next Euros. And then... So I think we've covered, pretty succinctly, the history of Britannia. Or, well, the Arthur stuff, anyway. So we have to be a much longer episode if we're just covering the whole of the history of Britannia. So we're going to go to our little break, which, same as the last one, I think there's not really going to be anything there, but one day. And after that, we'll be coming back with three things, which are a little extra bit on the history of Britannia, the miracles, and two other things, one at least of which could potentially be even older than the Britannum, but it's not, like, confirmed, right? Yeah. Right, well, yeah. We'll see you guys... when we see you. Which is never due to the podcast, but, you know. Alright, so the first of our three extra things is the miracles. I've gotten the notes, the Latin version, which is De Marabilibus Britanniae. Did I say that right? It's like Julius Caesar's in the room with me right now. That's crazy. Ow, ow, ow, ow, don't stab me, ow. Oh, no, not you as well. Dog, and you put your... That's not a Julius Caesar joke, I just got really angry all of a sudden. Oh, okay. If this was a Julius Caesar joke, I would have let you stab me. But yeah, so these are... these are at the end of the story of Britannia, but they're added shortly later, right? They're not part of the original manuscript. Well, we don't... people don't know for certain. It is... I've seen several people, historians theorize that they are part of the original manuscript. Oh, okay. But we don't know that for certain, but yeah, the more common one I've seen is that they're probably part of the original. Oh, right, okay. I didn't know that. These are at the end of it, the story of Britannia being the propaganda sort of piece. We talked about history of the Britons. What are the miracles covering? Well, they're the sort of... how many are there? 20-something? 13. Oh, I thought there was like... Oh, 13 of Britain. So the other ones might... I think it's like Anglesey and Ireland. There's a few, yeah. There's like interesting little topographical pieces that the author has seen and several of which it seems that he's seen them himself. Right. There's one specific part where they have two which we're all interested in that are just sort of randomly in Virginia, which seem really like the author's seen them themselves. He even says he's been to one personally. Yes, he does. Yeah, I find that really interesting. It's something we've been talking about and I've been there. I mean, you'll see that in one of them. So, like you said, there's two of them concerning Arthur. You say they're both in Brickheniog? Yes, as far as I can remember. Is Brickheniog often connected with Arthur? Outside of this? Well, outside of this, yes. There's a story which I can't remember right now. One of the saints lives, they meet Arthur on the border of Brickheniog. Okay. So he's always been vaguely associated with this area, but this is theoretically the oldest one which puts him right there. Okay, interesting. All right, so this says that... I'll read it first and then we'll go into the detail. I'm excited to... We decided to divide up reading them between us. I'm excited to give this one a crack because there's lots of double Ls and things in here. So I'm 100% going to screw this up. I'm very excited. I did offer to swap with you. You did? I have to learn somehow. Because the other one is almost entirely in English. So how am I going to level up my double Ls otherwise? I could have chosen the Latin one. I went for the Welsh. I want the stutter. Okay, so... Yeah, it says... It's talking about his dog and a footprint left chasing a boar. So it says... There is another wonder in the region that is called Bwest. There is a heap of stones... Oh, shook your head and grimaced a bit. Like a... Like a... Bwest. Bwest. Bwest. That is called Bwest. There is a heap of stones there and one stone placed on top of the pile with the pawprint of a dog in it. When the boar Trois was being hunted, Cavach, who was the dog of the soldier, Arthur, pressed... Interesting again. Soldier, not gang. Soldier Arthur pressed his print in the stone. And Arthur afterwards gathered together a heap of stones beneath the stone in which there was the pawprint of his dog. And it is called Carn Cavach. And men come and take away the stone in their hands for the space of a day and a night. And on the next day it is found on its heap. Okay, so a few things there. I feel like the first thing to clarify is... I mean, it just says, as we all know, when the boar Trois was being hunted, Arthur's dog... So, does this story exist elsewhere? Yes. It's a story in the Mabinogion called Cílúch a'c Ólainn about a guy trying to marry the daughter of a giant and he has to complete all of these tasks. And one of them is he has to get a comb that's in between the ears of a boar called Torch Trois. Okay. A comb. Yeah, it's an art... To be honest, that's probably one of the more sensical. Right. He just has a comb between his ears. And he gets Arthur, who I think was his cousin, I think, in the story. Okay. And they go out and they hunt the boar. So, this is referencing just that specific part which tells us not necessarily that the whole story is that old, but at least that that bit is that old. Okay, interesting. Okay, so... Take away the stones. Arthur gathers the heap of stones. Purses print into the stone. I mean, is that... Why would he do that? The dog? I don't know. No, I mean, why would Arthur gather... Is gathering together a heap of stones making corns? Is that something that happens? Like a significant thing that happens in stories? Yeah, it was probably... Before, like, the 1800s, 1900s, there were a few places associated with Arthur. It became much more common later, like, way more common later. So, again, this seems to be like this is this local legend of Arthur hunting the boar with his dog Carvas, therefore named after Karn Carvas, so that he must have built it. I don't actually know. I think it's like a Neolithic monument, so obviously he's not the one who built it unless... Oh, I see. So the monument itself actually existed, the actual Karn of stones. Yeah, I don't think it's there anymore, but it did at some time. Okay, interesting. And this one doesn't seem like the author saw this one himself. He seems to have just known of the story. Yes, okay. Especially being like, he just says, like, you know, everybody knows. Yes, we all know. And then the last part is interesting. So is that the miraculous part? Because it's worded like they take away the stone and the next day it reappears. Yes, it's there. So it's not that they've taken it back. Yeah, that's the miracle. Oh, I see. Okay. And this is, again, this is basically dated... Well, the manuscript itself, the actual writing of this is dated the same as the other Arthur story and where he's fighting. But what's the date of this story? Is there any idea of when this takes place? No, we don't. We don't know, but we know it at least existed by the early ninth century. Okay. And being that Arthur here, as you said, is a soldier, not even a general, so chronologically speaking, it's supposed to be an even earlier version of him. Right. Yeah. Which might be where the author of the Historic Plutonium got this person from in the first place. Right. Okay. Interesting. All right. So the next one coming up is for you to read by my big handsome chap. I always say that like a proud mother. It says that it's about Arthur's son, which is an interesting development. Amr? Yeah, especially what happened to Amr afterwards. And his sepulchre. A sepulchre, is that like a grave type thing? I don't know. I've never heard that before. I know it's about his grave. Yeah, I assume it's... I thought... A sepulchre. A small rumour monument cut in a rock. It's like a burial chamber, basically. Oh, okay. Yeah, I guess so, then. Yeah. Okay. Do you want to read it? Yeah, go ahead. Okay. There is another wonder in the region that is called Ergen. Ergen. Oh, crap. Wow, wow, wow, wow. Sorry, I'll teach you how to pronounce these things one day. There stands a tomb next to a spring that is known as Slugad Amr, and the name of the man who was buried in the mound was thus called Amr. He was the son of the soldier Arthur, and he himself killed him there and buried him. And men come to measure the length of the mound sometimes six feet, sometimes nine, sometimes twelve, sometimes fifteen. Whatever size you might measure on one occasion, you will never again find it the same, and I've tested this myself. That's very interesting. Okay, there's a lot in there that stands out to me that's interesting. Like, for the producement, these are all real places that exist outside of the story, right? Yes. Ergen? Ergen was southern Herefordshire. The side of Herefordshire past the river Wye, I think it's on. Oh, okay. But Slugad Amr, Slugad means eye, so it's theorized that it's like a spring, and there's a river with a similar name in English. It's theorized that the source of this river, which is in Brashaneog, is this Slugad Amr, where he was supposed to be buried. Yeah, okay. Okay, so, yeah, next to him being the son, Arthur's son Amr, does that show up in other stories? I don't remember hearing about this in, like, you know, the later Lancelot, whatever. Yeah, well, he shows up in one story as his, he has a servant called Amr. Mm-hmm. It seems to not be his son. If it is his son, it's never mentioned, and if it was his son, it doesn't make a lot of sense why he'd be his servant. Mm-hmm. I guess it's not impossible. He's just like a castle servant. Okay. And he has other sons in other stories. There's a lot. Right, okay. So mostly unique to this story, at least this version of them. Yeah. And like you said, Arthur killed him and buried him there. Yeah. It seems to be, again, another local legend of this soldier, Arthur. And that's, if it's called Slughead Amr, it's like an eye, don't know, like tears coming from the eye. Is that where it comes from? Right. More poetical. Does this story show up anywhere else? Arthur killing his son, Amr? Not that I'm aware of. Not specifically of Amr, definitely not. I'm not sure if there's, like, a different story from killing his son at some point. Probably, knowing how many stories about Arthur there are, but Amr doesn't show up anymore after this. And then, the next part being the actual miracle, the length of the mound changes whenever they measure it. Yes, and he's measured it himself and found it out. Apparently, that's true. Yeah. I'll take your word for it. So the next thing we have, the next other early mention of Arthur, this is, it's called, let's see if I can say it right, Igadoddin? Yes. Oh, fire. This one's in Nefkisvitzpatrik. I found a translation by Sean Eckard from, I think it was from Cardiff University. Why don't you tell us a bit about what this is? Okay, well, Igadoddin is quite a tricky one. It's set in the 7th century, I believe, with a group of warriors from the north of Britain, Brythonic warriors, fighting in the Battle of Catrithon. It's a big disaster, and I think everybody except for one person dies, or in some of the poetry, there's references to, like, one person, like, escaping. Okay. But it was written down much later. It probably is an older story, like, passed down through generations. But you see it very commonly saved, like, people are like, oh, it's written in this time. It's like, no, it wasn't. It was written down several hundred years later. Right. So, kind of debatable how old the story itself is, but the actual piece of writing is definitely from later. Yeah, I think it's supposed to be the 11th century, I think. 13th century? Okay. And this battle at Catrith? I mean, is that a known battle? Does that exist elsewhere? We don't know. I think the most common theory we see today is that it's the town of Catarrhach in York, which was, like, a Roman fort, I believe. Okay. So, it's fairly reasonable, but we don't know where that was meant to be. I don't think any English sources reference it. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, I was looking at little bits of notes here. So, the bit I've got written down in my notes here, again, if you'd clear up, so it says, many stanzas are considered interpolations, I can't explain what that meant to myself, not written by the original author. One such mentions Arthur. If it's not an interpolation, then it could be the earliest known reference. Yes, it basically depends on, was this bit about Arthur passed down from the 7th century or was it written down, added in, in the 11th century? By a later poet. Yeah, and the difficult part is that it's only in one of the two manuscripts, this bit about Arthur. The other one doesn't have it. Ah, yeah, I'm not sure if it's any favors for it being that old. Yeah, it seems less likely that it would be taken out rather than that it hadn't been added yet. Yeah, exactly. We have plenty of precedents for people adding things in. This is one of the, this is very much at the height of his fame in Britain. Yeah, right. It's very, very reasonable for somebody to add it in. It makes much less sense for why he would be taken out. Yes, okay. So, this, yeah, I'll read this and then give it more context. So, it says, this part is about a warrior, ooh, I'm probably going to say the name wrong, but something like Gwazir? Gwazir. Oh. Oh, Gwazir. This is about Gwazir. Gwazir. You sure you don't want to do the conglomerate? No, I can do it. Gwazir. I believe in you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,