Pilot EP 1 - Marla Spergel

Marla Schwartz-Spergel is a professor of marketing and sports marketing at TMU. She has a wealth of knowledge and experience in the field, having worked in senior corporate positions for various companies. She is passionate about teaching and making a difference in the lives of her students. Marla believes that marketing is everywhere and can be used ethically to create behavior change. She has faced challenges as a woman in a male-dominated industry but has learned to be authentic and speak her mind. We could stop and edit and stop it. Yeah, we're going to have someone to do that. OK. For our first episode, we'd like to welcome special guest Professor Marla Schwartz-Spergel. She studied psychology and graduated from McGill and pursued her master's at University of Ottawa, where she studied the psychology of teaching and learning. She has a wealth of knowledge for marketing and sports marketing, as she has worked in senior corporate positions for KPMG, American Express, the NHL Alumni Association, and other prominent companies. Marla is now a professor at TMU, teaching the basics of marketing and upper level sports marketing classes. She was also a project manager liaison at TMU for the National Hockey League Alumni, where she consulted for career direction and supported the development of programs within the NHLA. I'm so excited to have you here today. I was fortunate enough to take one of Marla's classes last year at TMU, specifically MKT 828. And then I followed up and took MKT 829. And they were, by far, my favorite classes I've ever taken at university. So Marla, welcome. Thank you. What a great introduction. Awesome. So we're super excited to have you here today. And one of our hosts, Simran, is going to start us off with the first question. Thanks, Maya. So thank you so much for being here. You're one of CMSV's favorite profs, I'll have to admit. But why don't you tell everybody a little brief story about who you are, just for everyone listening, because some people might not have taken your classes. So go ahead. OK. Boy, it might be a little brief, but a little bit long. So I have, again, like you said, been teaching, or been in marketing for almost 30 years. After being in marketing so many years, I really felt, once I had my own kids and saw how different people learn, I thought, maybe it's time to go back and teach marketing. Make a difference in the world to young people out there. So I decided to get my master's in education and teaching and learning. And I didn't do the MBA because I had so much business experience. And the degree at McGill actually included, even though it was out of psychology, half of it was out of commerce. I just didn't have to take accounting and finance. So here I graduated Ottawa U, and I taught at Carleton for two years at the Sprott School of Business and at Ottawa U. And then I came to Toronto because all my kids moved back here. I'm originally from Montreal. As I said, I lived in Toronto having all my kids. Then we moved back to Ottawa for 16 years. And then we came back here. So I had my husband sell his business because I said, my kids are here, our kids are here, and this is where I want to be. So I've been at Ryerson GMU for 14 years and love it. My commitment to make a difference with the students who I often call my kids because I feel like that mommy. And I will do anything to ensure not to humiliate students in my class, to ensure that no question is stupid, and to have a safe space, and to make connections for them to have future opportunities. Wow, that's amazing. And I know a lot of students can relate and testify to having a safe space in your classroom. And Maya has nothing but great things to say. And I'm so excited to take your class next year. But moving on, I think I'm going to pass it to Maya. She's going to dive into your past, and we'll get started. Yeah, so you briefly kind of mentioned, but so after studying psychology, what made you kind of wanted to pursue a career in marketing? How did you make that transition into the business world after getting out of grad? Sorry, what's really interesting is that I truly believe there's a genetic aspect to being a marketer. And I've often been that person who looks and understands why is something happening? How can I impact behavior change? And I started my career with, it was actually Ernst and Winnie who turned into KPMG. And I was doing M&A, mergers and acquisitions. And I'm not a numbers person. I mean, I do know about numbers, but it's not my thing. And the marketing aspect got more interesting, and they brought me in as a junior marketing consultant. And it really sparked that passion and interest in me. And when I got called for my first headhunter, it was for working for Gray Advertising. And when I arrived at Gray Advertising, I realized that was my place to be. That was my thing. It was so exciting, so cool to work with the corporate side, which was working with Procter & Gamble. And I was the account exec who made things happen, coordinated everything. And I started to realize how much I am a great problem solver. And it was a lot of fun. And then it just evolved. And I think in everything in life, it's all about marketing, politics, yourself, your personal brand. And as long as it's done ethically and for a good cause and to make a difference, I truly love it. I just love the excitement. It doesn't matter what product or brand or service. It's how am I going to make this change behavior in the consumer segment I'm specifically targeting. OK, I just have a follow-up question kind of that I just thought of. So when you entered this space, did you feel connected right away, like this is for me? Or did you ever have second guesses? No, never. The partner at Ernst & Winnie felt I was going to be groomed for M&A. And he was very disappointed. I mean, he might not be alive now, but I touched base with him 10 years ago. He was 80 then. And he never forgave me for not pursuing the mergers and acquisitions. But I just didn't feel like it was me. OK, thank you for that. I'm going to pass it back to you. No problem, thanks. So I mean, the fact that you knew right away that that wasn't for you, I think, speaks volumes. Because a lot of times, people will kind of bounce between a lot of ideas. And they might not really know. And it'll take a couple of years before they find their true passion. And the fact that you found it right away is so cool. And I think you touched upon how marketing is in every aspect of your life, as long as you do it ethically. So what was something in your career that you're most proud about when it came to marketing? Because you did have to be a creative problem solver. And I think not a lot of people can do that. And the fact that you were able to and be successful speaks a lot about who you are today. Well, it's really interesting. I was thinking about this question earlier. And I'm not responding in the way I was going to, because I think, as I said, how marketing impacts your life everywhere. So really, in teaching, I've established a brand for myself, a very different brand that's not typical within academia. And I felt committed to doing what I wanted to do to make a difference in the students' lives the way I felt it should be. And although the excitement of working on big projects and with Roots and creating an idea of bringing their brands to universities and colleges, calling it proud to be Canadian, having my own company, nothing really touched on the fact of how I marketed me to make a difference to kids who really wanted, who had a lifetime to pursue, and that I could direct them and help them. So I believe, in my mind, that's marketing. And that's been my joy. That's really cool. I just had a follow-up question. Do you think, because your, I guess, objective was not to market yourself, but to market for others, do you think that's why you were able to be successful at projects like the Roots one, for example? Yeah, like with the Roots one, it was more that, as a marketer, I always look at trends. And I look at gaps. And I tell all the students, hopefully when you're finished my class, you start noticing trends happening. And for me, it was the coolness of, I see a trend. I just start looking. And that's exciting to me. So that was exciting. Yeah, very cool. We'll pass that. OK, awesome. So obviously, you've had a lot of success in huge, major companies. I wanted to ask, and kind of delve into, how has it been being a woman in those spaces where they can be predominantly men, and feeling confident in projecting your voice, and projecting ideas, but also like projecting ideas, and maybe saying you don't want to go along with something? Yeah, can you kind of explain to our listeners what's that experience been like, especially in working with companies like this? OK, so I'm going to start with saying that to give you guys a heads up, find your authenticity and believe in it, because it was difficult. When I came in my generation, this is back in the 80s, and you got a job. And you didn't pick a company you felt comfortable in. You picked a company because you got hired by a headhunter who called you, good money, you're doing the job you like to do. But I'll tell you some stories that are weird for you to hear now. So when I was working at American Express, I was never the person in skirts. I mean, maybe later on in life I became more likable of skirts, but I loved my pants. But when I started in marketing, you had to go get your gray suit, your black suit, your navy suit. It was a skirt and a blazer. And at American Express, I decided one day I was going to buy a really nice pair of pants and come to work. And I got in trouble. HR not physically slapped my hand, but I got in trouble, and I was told never to do that again. So I'm kind of that rebel with Etta Codd sometimes. I love that. It's awesome. Yeah, so you're in the corporate environment as a woman. And maybe if it was me, I was afraid to say things sometimes because I wasn't sure that it was OK for me to do that. Definitely, the majority of the higher positions were men. I did have an amazing person, Cassie McCready. I don't know if she's around anymore at Ray Advertising. And she was truly authentic. She spoke her mind. She saw the whole picture. But going back to that authenticity aspect, it only happened to me when I left the corporate world that I decided, and I had a lot of anxiety in work, anxiety attacks, trying to hold back just to be me. I was trying to be who they wanted me to be. And once I became who I am, which I believe you could be successful, you could still be respectable, you could still be anything you want to be, but within the realm of what's expected, but be yourself. Because that's finally when I found my true success, finally when I felt no barriers were around me, that I could do whatever I wanted, not in a weird way, and succeed. And I was so good at pitching ideas to people, because it came from a place of passion, along with who I was and who I am. So it wasn't like, it kind of took you a minute to get there to where that space was. And was it kind of like, was it the place that you were working at that made you eventually feel comfortable to be, hold that authenticity? Or was it just like years of just being like, OK, I'm ready to finally come out of a shell and let it down? I had left Canadian Home Foods, which I was senior marketing manager on Chef Brady Products. And I was pregnant. And once I had my kids, I started a business. And it was from that point on, I just, I don't know if it's the hormones, I don't know. I just felt confident. I felt I had all this experience in marketing. I had this idea. I could go forward. So it was really after I left. And then it's becoming a mom. I don't know. That's amazing. I think those mom instincts really kicked in. I need to show my kids that you can be your true self and be successful, which I love. And the entire American Express story just gives me flashbacks to The Devil Wears Prada and how Andy used to fake it by wearing what she thought was accepted. And then it was only until after she became her true self where she felt like, no, I can make it in this world. I'm successful. That's great analysis. Great correlation. Why not use Andy? OK. Yeah, that's awesome. I think I'll go forward and say, speaking back on your corporate life, did you ever feel that you were able to fulfill your goals? I know you mentioned that you felt like you were a little restricted, a little wild, but were you able to fulfill everything you kind of hoped for? I think I was so young when I got out of McGill. I was in my early 20s, and it was just exciting being in all these different environments. And it was more like a challenge. OK, I'm now working here. And wow, OK, I'm here. And you look back and go, how did I get there? So it was less the actual feeling that I was. I still had the anxiety because I kept wondering, am I doing this right? Is this what they expect of me? That was always there. But the fun and the experience of now being out of school, I hate to say, but you learn a lot when you're in your first couple of jobs. And it was really fun. It was fun. But it was tense always in the background of, uh-oh, am I doing OK? Am I doing this right? And you did have reviews. But I just wasn't ever truly me. Right. And I think because of those anxiety attacks and always thinking back, am I meant to be here, those imposter syndrome moments, do you think that continued on? Or was it until you fully were able to be your true self where it kind of went away? Or did it go away as you got more experience? How did you navigate between that? It went away until I came to teach. Because I never thought that I would be in front of a classroom exposing my beliefs and learnings and stuff. And you guys are looking at me and responding to me. And I go, wow, that's a big responsibility that everybody's looking up at me. And to this day, I say to my husband, I go, when is it going to find me out? But I've been overarching teaching 18 years now. And I'm not scared. I enjoy it. I come into class. But it's always the back of my head. So when I was on my own after corporation work and doing my own thing and pitching ideas, I didn't feel like an imposter. But yeah, in the teaching environment, because I see academia, and you've got the formality of academia. And yeah, it's still there. I think it's always going to be there with everyone. But just how you normalize it and just deal with it helps a lot. You have a lot of wisdom. Thank you. I try. Someone's killing it. You briefly touched on this. But I wanted to ask how did you, because you've been teaching now for 18 years. And what made you want to transcend your career from corporate, have so many accolades, and working so high up, to doing a full 360, to being in the teaching world? That's such a drastic change. Yeah, so basically, again, it was my kids were at elementary school or middle school. And they had learning disabilities, not major. They're quite successful now. But I saw how intimidating it was for kids to learn. And when I was growing up, I found that later on in life, I have ADD. And that made a lot of sense. And I go back and think about high school, which was I was just into my sports and playing guitar. But I was called a non-person in class. And that was pretty nasty. So I found out I was ADD. I managed to find strategies through my life to be successful. But my kids had learning disabilities. And I wanted to ensure that everybody had the right to learn based on the way they learned. And I wanted that opportunity to make a difference that way. And that's really what drove this, by seeing my own kids. And it's funny, my kids, two of them, who are now 36 and 35, there was an open school in Ottawa. And they would be paraded out. And I never knew what they said. They felt like these were the stupid kids being paraded out in front of everybody, because there were no walls. And to think how times have changed. You guys have accessibility when you're in class with different learning disabilities. But yeah, so it was my kids' experience and me wanting to teach something I knew and make a difference that way. Awesome. Thank you for sharing that for us. OK, so Professor of Incorporate Life, which one do you think is the winner between the two, and more rewarding as a career and just part of life? You know what? I will always be that creative person who tries to find new business ideas and gets so excited about it. But at the end of the day, my most rewarding has been teaching, teaching young adults who really don't know where they're going, most of them, and just want someone to listen to them and give them hope. And I'll give you a little secret here. And you can edit it out or not. Through my years starting at Carleton, I've had students who I know really know. They really get marketing, but they might have not done a great job in a written assignment. But they came to me with intrinsic motivation to say, listen, I could do better than this. Is there any way I could have another opportunity? And it's been my own little research that, in fact, everybody that's come to me on their own, and I've given them my comments, and they've come back, they have flourished. They have done so well. And so I really, yeah, that's something I don't share. But I really think that giving people hope, giving kids hope, and I call you guys kids because, again, you're younger than my kids, it's so important. It's just important. Right. And to care. Exactly. SSA's in. Tip for the students listening, go ask your professors for help. Yeah, it definitely doesn't hurt. I had another question before I jumped to my last one. So you've worked American Express, and you've done P&G, and then you did NHL sort of marketing. How did you kind of shift into the sports world? You said you were an athlete, and we've talked about how you are a pickleball fanatic girl. How did you kind of segue your way into that part of marketing? Ken Jones, the dean that was here 14 years ago, who was the most wonderful, inspiring man, who was pitching to the NHL alumni to be their education partner. And I had developed an online course technologically for distance with Chang. And he saw that I did that, because it was very different from what they had before. And so he came to me, and he said, how would you like to come and pitch the business for TRSM to get the NHL Alumni Association? And so I did the presentation, pitched the business. I was brought on while I was teaching to work with them. And then it became kind of like almost like full time with them. And I got the kahunas, I don't know what they say, to Pat Flatley, who's a retired hockey player there, that if I'm going to work here, you're going to pay me. So I ended up having two jobs. I kind of worked full time at both places. I became the strategy and education consultant for them. And that kind of evolved. And I just got immersed in the sports world. And it just came about naturally. OK, I had one more thing I wanted to ask. When you were working corporate, what did you enjoy more, working more for brands and people? Carter Campbell was actually a client when I was in advertising. So that's interesting. When I was at the agency side, I have to say I had the most fun. I think that for anybody going into marketing as a young person, it's awesome. You really are allowed to be so creative. But you also have some clients that were nasty. But even though you and the creative department came up with a solution, a strategic solution, if the client was very strict and not open-minded, it went to the garbage. And that was really frustrating. So when I became, especially at Canadian Home Products, I was the senior marketing manager. I think that Cannes was my agency. And it felt empowering to be the boss on that end. But I think truly out of everything I did, working at Grey Advertising was the most fun. Do you want to ask the last question? Sure. So for anyone listening, or even just us, you've been through a lot in your career. I think you've probably done the most when it comes to marketing. Do you have any advice for those that are getting started or trying to break into the sports business industry or marketing industry? Yeah, so take my class. Go enroll. What I want to do with, like, you know, I bring guest speakers into my class. And why do I do that? Because I need to bring real world into the classroom rather than theory. You need to know what really people expect of you. And the bigger part of it is, when I came out of university, we had to go through recruiting companies. And you set your resume. And now it's who you know and your connections. And by having guest speakers come to class, you, as students, have the opportunity to do your research before, know what to ask these people questions about. Because many of the guest speakers ask me about students in the class. And they ask because they're looking for interns. They're looking for full time employment down the road. They see you shining. So here, you have the opportunity. So connections are really, really big. You should be on LinkedIn. And you should ask to connect to people you are interested in working with down the road. Everybody wants to give back. It's not how it used to be. Old people, young people, everybody wants to give back. They want to help you out. So to me, that's really important. Go to SMCC, which I'm a member of now, which is the Sponsorship Marketing Association. If you connect with me on LinkedIn, I've got a connection with that. You should join because it's wonderful to be part of that. With respect to Canadian Marketing Association, American Marketing Association, join as students. Because you get to work as volunteers on projects with presidents of companies, VP, and you're working at the same level. So they're not looking at you, oh, you're a student, I'm the VP. No, you have a job to do, and you're working together on that. So I would say that that's really, really important. That's really cool. And I think one of the biggest things coming into university, everyone's network. Your network is your net worth. And it's so important to network, especially if you're trying to secure those big companies or any internships that are very competitive. And the fact that you create your classroom as an environment where you can get that networking and you're learning, I think it's a two-in-one bonus. Because most of the time, you have to register for events happening and then network with everyone. But here, you're getting an education, and you're learning, and you're networking. It's all in between. And I think that's what sets your class apart. So everybody should go and enroll. And just one thing I can add, Maya was in the class. So what we do is we always have projects with sports teams, with leagues. And the students who are the top teams in my classes get to pitch their ideas at the head office of MLSC, at the head office of NBA Canada, Soccer Canada. We're doing something now with NFL Canada. And the top students will be pitching their ideas. And they're actually working on a real-life problem that they have. So what better experience than to, we talk about trial and marketing. So this is a sense of trial. Yeah, I feel like there's no room for it. I mean, there's no way you can not feel because it's like, what do you have to lose? Because you're just learning. Exactly. Learning environment. Yeah. Yeah. I think when I got to do my pitch to Canada Soccer, it was probably the coolest thing I've ever done. Just being in a space with other students, seeing their ideas, the way they think, and then getting to meet all of the people that are on their Canadian desert team, I think was, I think it's also such a good taste of real world and what that's like. And otherwise, we're just studying textbook, textbook. Yeah. And then we come in and we're like, wait, what's going on? Exactly. Yeah. Thank you so much for having this meeting. It is my pleasure. My pleasure. I'm so excited that you girls asked me to be part of this. Yes, of course. This is amazing. And I hope everyone can go enroll in MKT, A2A, and A29. And Marla and Rachel. Thank you again for being on TMSBA's first podcast episode. We look forward to hopefully having more people enroll in your class. I know I will. Awesome. I look forward to having you. I will be in your class next semester. Thank you. Thank you.