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The transcription is a podcast introduction where the host welcomes the listeners to the SPR Day podcast, which focuses on feminism and racial justice. The host introduces Sofrina Moller, a grassroots organizer who works with formerly incarcerated women in Africa. Sofrina discusses the impact of colonial penal codes on the current criminal justice system in Africa, particularly in Kenya. She explains how gender, race, and class intersect within the system and create additional barriers for marginalized groups. Specifically, women from lower socioeconomic backgrounds are more likely to be criminalized for offenses related to poverty, and once incarcerated, they face challenges accessing education, healthcare, and legal representation. The state apparatus perpetuates inequalities through selective enforcement of laws and underfunding rehabilitation programs. This leads to a cycle of imprisonment and difficulty reintegrating into society. So, OK, so I'm going to start, if you're happy with it. Are you comfortable? Awesome. I have no idea. I'll start reading. So I'm going to say, welcome, thank you. You can say, hello, happy to be here, and then I'll start with the first question. OK, perfect. Yes, you'll see I'm in. So I'll say, welcome, hi. And then if you could all respond saying, hi, it's really great to be here. And then I'll go on to the first question. OK. Welcome to the SPR Day podcast, where we discuss topical issues at the intersection of feminism and racial justice, as well as engage partners and comrades on projects we're carrying out together. This is the first, third, no, see, I'm starting from the beginning because I tripped over my words. Welcome to the SPR Day podcast, where we discuss topical issues at the intersection of feminism and racial justice, as well as engage partners and comrades on projects we're carrying out together. This is the third series. No, I'm starting again. It's OK. Starting again. Welcome to the SPR Day podcast, where we discuss topical issues at the intersection of feminism and racial justice, as well as engage partners and comrades on projects we're carrying out together. This is the third in a series of podcasts developed by the Feminist Centre for Racial Justice, which is hosted at Soho University of London. For more information about the Feminist Centre, please go to our website at www.thefeministcentre.org. This podcast series introduces three of the activists participating in SPR Day's Feminist Movement Building School. For over five days, these immersive movement-focused schools combine strategic approaches emerging from social justice movements and draw on transnational research collaborative outcomes. My name is Nadia Astry, and I'm a guest podcast producer for SPR Day. And today I have the privilege of introducing you to grassroots organiser committed to advancing the cause of formerly incarcerated women across Africa, Sofrina Moller. So welcome, Sofrina. Thank you so much for joining us today. So, Sofrina, can you start by telling us a little bit about who you are, in your words, and the work that you do? Okay. So my name is Sofrina Moller. I'm a mother of one lovely daughter, and I'm a formerly imprisoned woman. And I was incarcerated at La Masa Maxima Women's Prison because of death for a period of six months. Currently, I work for Princess Africa. I started the programme early to dignify rehabilitation. Princess Africa works with women, children and girls impacted by the criminal justice system. We support them in their integration journey. But I'm also the vice-chairperson of SOTO, Sisters on the Outside, a movement that brings together formerly imprisoned women from across Africa to be the lead voices advocating for systemic change within the criminal justice system in Africa. Thank you so much for that summary, and it's really great to have you here. And to have heard from you. No, I'm going to start again. Thank you so much for being here this evening and for agreeing to discuss this with us. I think that we can learn a lot from your experience as somebody who has been incarcerated and who now works to bring dignity and empowerment to women who are going through the same thing as you. But to start us off, can you tell us about how the peace? No. See, it's OK. I'm going to start from the top. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for being here this evening with us, Supreme. It's a pleasure to speak to you, and I think your experience of going through what you've been through and the work that you do now is very inspiring. And first, I'd like to ask you about how the colonial penal code has shaped the current carceral system across Africa, but particularly in Kenya, where you're from. Thank you so much. So the colonial penal code laid the foundation for carceral systems in many African countries, including Kenya. It was designed to control and subjugate the military population through very harsh penalties and rigid enforcement of laws that served the colonial interest. So these laws prioritised punishment over rehabilitation and enforced one-size-fits-all approach to the justice, which has failed over the years. And it has failed to consider socio-economic realities of the people. And the remnants of these colonial laws still continue to be part of our system, and they continue to influence our criminal justice system. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. And so what I'm hearing you saying is that, despite powerful independence movements across Africa kind of pushing out colonial forces, and so colonial forces not necessarily occupying physically anymore, these are neo-colonial practices that continue to shape the ways in which belonging and citizenship and identity in Kenya is shaped. Are there any specific remnants of colonial laws that continue to impact the justice system today? Yes, there are still a lot of remnants of colonial laws that still impact the justice system today. For instance, many laws related to vagrancy, loitering, and petty offences. So yes, there are still a lot of colonial laws which still impact the justice system today. For instance, many laws related to vagrancy, loitering, and petty offences disproportionately affect the poor and marginalized leading to their criminalization. So these laws that were originally designed to control the movement and activities of the native population, they continue to be enforced in ways that perpetuate societal inequalities and the emphasis on punitive justice as opposed to restorative justice. Thank you. That feels to me as though that's something very deliberate and specific, and I'm wondering if you could kind of shed some more light on how gender and race or ethnicity and class intersect with this penal system, and what specific barriers people who are marginalized, such as women, face as a result of these intersections and interactions. So gender and class significantly intersect within the penal system, creating unique and obviously severe challenges for women, girls, and children. So women from lower socioeconomic backgrounds are more likely to be criminalized for offences related to poverty, such as theft or loitering, and once they are incarcerated, there are in fact additional barriers. For children, actually, you might find that they do not access quality education, health care, they do not have legal representation, and they lack family support. And for children, this could further... Yeah. Do you want me to repeat the question? I will do that. Should I do that? Yeah, you can. Okay. So I'm going to repeat the question. Thank you, Supreme, for laying that out for us, and it feels to me very specific and very deliberate. Could you be a little bit more specific? No. I'm going to say it again. Thank you, Supreme, for laying that out for me. It feels very specific and deliberate. And I was wondering whether you could expand on how gender and class and race or ethnicity intersect within the penal system, and what specific barriers marginalized people, including women, face as a result of these intersections and how they interact. So gender and class significantly intersect within the penal system, creating unique and often severe challenges for women, girls, and children. Women from lower socioeconomic backgrounds are more likely to be criminalized for offenses related to poverty, such as theft or loitering. Once imprisoned, they face additional barriers, especially for girls and children. They may lack quality education, health care, lack of legal representation, and family support. And this may lead to trauma and stigmatization. Thank you. I think it's quite clear about what you've – thank you. I think in your answer, what you've been clear about is the fact that specific people, due to their identities, are more likely to engage in activities that are criminalized, such as living on the streets or being around the streets. And then once you pass through that system, that kind of criminal justice system, you're marked in a certain way. And so kind of regaining dignity, rebuilding your life after that is quite difficult. And so I wanted to ask, in your experience, how does the state apparatus enforce or perpetuate inequalities within the criminal justice system, especially kind of concerning marginalized communities? If you could be a little bit more specific or give an example of that. Okay. So the state apparatus enforces and perpetuates inequalities within the criminal justice system through various means, including selective enforcement of law. We are aware that there are many parliamentarians who have criminal records, but they are not within – they are not – they are not self-independent at the moment. And so that selective enforcement of the law is not equal to the legal representation for the poor. Many women in our facilities lack legal representation. They are underfunding of rehabilitation programs within the criminal justice system. And the marginalized communities, including women, children, often they are brands of these systemic inequalities. For example, the police would go out in a poor neighborhood and pick up the young people on the street and pick up the women who are hooking on the street. And when that happens and the women are taken into our correctional facilities, they're required to pay a fine of up to $10,000 a month. Most of the women cannot afford that. And so what do they do? They either go home or they serve six months. The effects, the impacts of serving that six months or getting that $10,000, when the woman goes back, it is very hard for that particular woman to reintegrate and continue to live up to her normal life of incarceration. And therefore, this cycle of in and out of prison for these marginalized communities, is definitely useful. Thank you. And I'm sure it affects the community beyond that individual woman as well. What if she has children or people she needs to care for, such as elders or, you know, other family members? I'm sure it has kind of a broader impact beyond an individual. Is there anything that you wanted to speak to on that? No? Okay. That's fine. So I'll take that again so you can delete that bit. And so thank you very much for sharing that with me, Supreme. I feel moved by the way that you framed it. And I think that, you know, you've talked about the massive impact that that has on a woman, but I'm sure it has impact beyond the woman, on her family, on her community, on the people whose lives end in time with her. And so I think just reflecting on how damaging that process is, is just really important. What are your thoughts on divesting from carceral practices and investing in kind of community- Actually, let me take that from the beginning. So you've spoken about how rehabilitation programs and the like- I'll start again. So you've spoken about how rehabilitation programs and the like are underfunded and underutilized, therefore. But I wanted to get your thoughts on divesting from carceral practices and rather investing in community-based alternatives that support social justice. I strongly believe that divesting from carceral practices and investing in community-based alternatives is essential for achieving social justice. So carceral practices often seek to address the root cause of crime and instead perpetuate the cycles of imprisonment and marginalization. Community-based alternatives, such as restorative justice programs, mental health services for women who are on the streets and are loitering, and economic empowerment initiatives would offer effective and more humane solutions by addressing the underlying issues that lead to criminal behavior. And in your line of work, are there specific strategies or initiatives that you use? Actually, starting again. Thank you. And in your line of work, are there specific strategies that you use to help formerly incarcerated women reclaim their dignity and agency? Okay. So through Clean South Africa, we have developed our own system to challenge and transform the existing criminal justice framework. So central to our work is the Open World System, which is the foundation of our programming. So our approach is built in three main pillars. One, we have systems change, where we advocate for comprehensive reforms within the criminal justice system. Our key focus is positioning our program that we have developed for formerly imprisoned women, the Open World Leadership Program, which provides psychosocial support and trauma healing for women in prison and those in our community chapters, as a viable alternative to cartel jails, sentencing, or federal sentences. Our pillar number two, which is service delivery. I have already talked about the Open World Leadership Program. We also equip the women with essential skills to secure sustainable livelihoods. We have our site trust of economic empowerment. We have textile and fashion design. We have salon and beauty. We have construction, where we have partnered with an organization called BILFA, and our women are trained carpenters, tailors, and painters. We also have our women taking our women... So at Queen's Antarctica, we have developed our own system to challenge and transform the existing criminal justice framework. So central to our work is the Open World System, which is the foundation of our programming. Our approach is based on three key pillars. One, we have systemic change, where we advocate for comprehensive reforms within the criminal justice system. Our key focus is on positioning our Open World Leadership Program, our program that we have developed for formerly imprisoned women, which provides psychosocial support and trauma healing for women in prison, and in our community chapters, as a viable alternative to custodial sentencing for petty offenders. Number two, we have our service delivery pillar, where we offer the Open World Leadership Program, but we also equip women with essential skills to secure sustainable livelihoods through our side tracks of economic empowerment, which are fashion design. We have a carpentry. We have fashion design. We have partnered with an organization called BILFA, and we have trained our women as carpenters, tailors, and painters. We have green energy, where our women are making charcoals with text, and we also have women in construction. We have our third pillar, which is movement building, and in our third pillar, we have united formerly imprisoned women from across Africa to assist them on the outside, a movement that is grounded in solidarity, sisterhood, and we also work towards ensuring that our women are financially empowered through building a circle, a circle of social, defending, and credit cooperatives where they can accept credit in a... where they can accept credit in a... where they can easily access credit. And a lot of statistics. Thank you. That sounds really powerful. Can you share any success stories on that? Yes, I can share a success story. We have one of our women who is in one of our chapters, and this woman for 10 years was in and out of the criminal justice system, and the only thing that she ever did was continuously short-lived, and she was sent in to prison, and she stopped her treatment, and got out. And for 10 years, this cycle continued over and over again. When we got into contact with her, I called her Mary, which is not her real name, but when she got in contact with us and went through our orphanage program, Mary was able to enroll in our skills and performance program, and she trained as a carpenter. And from 2018, since she got into contact with us, and enrolled as a carpenter, and now is working and making furniture, she's never gone back to prison. So there's a life of Mary, and many more, because we have over 400 women in different chapters who have come together across Kenya and in parts of Africa. We have women in South Africa, we have women in Ghana, we have women who recently wanted to join us, and they're joining our movement in Sierra Leone, and we have about 40 chapters of women in Kenya. Do you want me to ask the question again? Thank you, Suprene. It sounds as though your approach kind of touches all bases. Can you share any success stories with us? Okay. We have one of our women, and I call her Mary. For over 10 years, Mary was in and out of the criminal justice system. And because Mary continuously just committed 50 offences and was always short-listing within the supermarket, and for 10 whole years, she was in and out of the justice system. When we got into contact with her in 2018, she went through one of our programs and was able to be enrolled with a builder in the construction center. We have a success story, and I'll call her Mary. So we have a success story, and I will call this one Mary. For 10 good years, Mary was in and out of the criminal justice system because she kept short-listing and stealing small things from the supermarket. And when she came, we have a success story, and we have this lady called Mary. Mary, for 10 good years, was in and out of the criminal justice system because she kept short-listing. When she came into contact with us and went through one of our programs, she was put in the prison. She now runs a small business and has never gone back to prison. Since 2018, she's out providing for her family and living a more sustainable life. Thank you. Thank you, and I think Mary's story kind of speaks to the importance of divesting in systems that were set up to oppress, systems that were not set up to empower, and rather investing in community and supporting people rather than isolating, rather than punishing them, supporting them to transform their conditions. I think that it sounds like the work that you're doing at Clean Start is truly transformative. How do you think that investing in community resources and support networks transnationally play a role in the empowerment of formerly incarcerated women? Investing in community resources and support networks is crucial for empowerment of women in our communities. These resources will provide the necessary tools for women to begin their lives, including education. We offer women who have gone through our program to employment opportunities. We offer them support networks where they can heal from the trauma that they have experienced post-incarceration. These support networks offer them a sense of belonging and encouragement, which is vital for the women who have been isolated and stigmatized by the society. So by strengthening some of these resources and networks, we can create an environment where formerly incarcerated women can thrive and become active participants within the community. Thank you. And why are you choosing to do this not only in Kenya but also in other places? What do you think the value in that transnational work is? It is important to do this not just in Kenya but in other places because the challenges are similar to those women in Kenya are facing. So we have realised that this is not just a Kenya problem, it's a South Africa problem, it's a Bahrain problem, it's a Tanzania problem, it's a Uganda problem. That's why we are doing this not just in Kenya but across other countries. The first time that you spoke during the Feminist Movement Builder School, you mentioned that you had applied to many different feminist spaces to participate, and that often your participation was rejected, and that's because you are a formerly incarcerated woman. I want to understand how you navigate these exclusionary feminist spaces that legitimise and perpetuate violence against formerly incarcerated women, and what strategies do you employ to challenge this? Navigating these spaces requires a lot of resilience and commitment. By advocating for inclusion for women, regardless of their past. As an individual, I just kept on looking for more opportunities and applying and ensuring that I kept putting in applications so that I could represent the community where I come from, who are most of the time often excluded. This being one of the second opportunities that I have attended, when I went to Tanzania at the beginning of this year for two months, the Colonial Feminist Movement Leadership School by Kobi Institute, I was able to begin to see other feminist organisations who I could collaborate and work with, and just finding those avenues, and it is through that particular training that we got our connection to the women in Sierra Leone, and just to realise that there is a whole community of formerly incarcerated women in Sierra Leone, who are also just fighting in their own way and navigating the challenges that they are going through. So, now that I have this other opportunity, I believe that it is opening doors, not just for me, but the community of women like myself, who their voices can be heard, and building alliances with the different people that I have met in this particular school. Thank you, and I think a theme that we continue to be discussing at this school is the fact that we are not free until we are all free, and that everybody's voices need to be heard in order for us to shift and ultimately disband the technologies of power that continue to perpetuate inequalities that we have named as patriarchy, white supremacy and capitalism. So, what feminist movement building principles or methodologies have kind of struck you during our week together, and what do you think you are going to take home and employ in your own work? I would say to them, feminist movement building principles that I am taking away with me are solidarity, inclusivity and intersectionality. These principles are really essential for creating our movement, and as I said earlier, in our movement we are also advocating for us to be... there's a lot of sisterhood, there's a lot of solidarity so that we can support one another, and so these principles that I carry with me when I go back home will enable me to amplify the voices of incarcerated women, ensuring that their experiences, their perspectives are central to our movement. So, the woman is at the center of our intervention in a moment's time to move next level as sisters on the outside. So, that is one key thing that I am taking away with me. Even as I continue to learn and continue to find ways and avenues in which the formerly incarcerated women can be represented as many of these feminist places. Yeah, as possible. Thank you, and I think that, you know, something we've discussed this week is that it is by design that these places... Thank you, Sabrina, and I think something that I have been raised again and again this week is that it is by design that women are constructed as good and bad, and the bad ones are left out of movements because it is only in that way that the system will continue to oppress, and it is only by including everybody and thinking about liberation for everybody and building and strategizing with everybody that we will get to liberation. And so, I'm pleased that you're here. Thank you so much for sitting down with me today. It's been a pleasure to speak to you. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure to be here. Thank you. Thank you.