CIAJ-PatriarchyPT2

The host, Dr. Craig Greatman, discusses the concept of ontology versus nature and order in relation to biblical patriarchy. He emphasizes that both men and women have the same need for salvation and are fallen creatures. However, he argues that nature and order still play a role in distinguishing the roles and authority of men and women. He uses examples from various contexts such as the workplace and restaurant to highlight the importance of recognizing authority and order. He also mentions the challenges faced by Christians due to different denominations and interpretations of God's order. Dr. Greatman stresses the need to submit to Christ and his authority, even if it goes against societal norms. He concludes by mentioning that he wants his daughters to embrace the roles and gifts that God has given them within the boundaries set by the Bible. The discussion will continue in the next session. Good evening, and welcome once again to Count It All Joy. I am your host, Dr. Craig Greatman, pastor of Lighthouse Covenant Church in Fremont, California, as well as Biblical New Thetic Christian counselor throughout the Bay Area. So as we continue our discussion with regard to biblical patriarchy, one of the things that we want to continue to unpack is this idea of ontology versus nature and order. So last time we were here together, I did unpack the ontological discussion a little bit and mentioned to you that oftentimes when people discuss the roles and the differences and the similarities between men and women with regard to our relationship with God, they are discussing the subject from the category of ontology, the discussion of and the study of being. The reality is that males and females, as we said last time, because of being similar beings, they have the exact same need of salvation, they have the exact same problem from the fall, they are both fallen creatures who need a Savior. So that being said, there is no difference between a Jew, a Gentile, barbarian, Scythian, free person, slave, it doesn't matter. Every human being ontologically has a need for a Savior. What that doesn't change at all, or what that doesn't diminish, what that doesn't impact in any way is this idea of nature and order and authority. And we're going to discuss this tonight. It's rather obvious, I think, but many people seem to run into this roadblock where they just can't seem to have another category for God's order in the church, God's order in nature for males and females that would make them different in any way. This is a bit troubling, because in so many ways, we categorize things in our world where this becomes rather obvious. If you have an employer employee relationship, there are some power dynamics there, there are some dynamics with regard to authority. And most grown folks, although this discussion can be had now during these times where people do want to proclaim their equality with their boss, their equality and their entitlement with people of authority. And really, that's frankly, part of our cultural and societal problem right now is that landing on a place or in a place where people expect authority and submit to authority, and they do so similarly, this is truly an issue for many people in our culture today. But in general, people with any sensibility can understand that if you go, let's just say you go to the hospital, and you go to the hospital, because you were injured, quite quickly, you are going to know that there is going to be a person that you would much rather deal with or prefer to have handling your wounds or helping you to get better over and above another person, there might be a person there who is a CNA, a type of a helper who can change bedsheets and change your bedpan and dress your wound, perhaps clean you off that person might be a young male or female in their early 20s, still going to school or whatever, but that's not the person that you want doing surgery on you. And that's because you want someone with not only the authority, but the wherewithal and the ability to do surgery on you correctly, reasonable, you want a doctor instead of a CNA operating on you or providing you with stitches, you'd like to have a legitimate phlebotomist taking your blood rather than the administrator sitting at the counter filing records in the cabinet. If and when you go to a restaurant, you would likely want the chef rather than the janitor to cook your meal. If you were to go to court, you would likely want a judge to adjudicate your case rather than the court reporter. I mean, this is if you have any common sense anyway, I know that common sense is out the window for many people. But a lot of this is just plain prima facie reality for most human beings. We know that there are people who are equipped to do particular things for particular benefit to other people. And those people have authority in various places. And getting back to this idea of being in the workplace and having a boss having someone give you a paycheck, if you are not submitted to the authority of the place that you work, you probably won't get the paycheck that you were expecting, because you're not obeying the expectations of your employer. So there's an employer employee relationship and the employer rightly has authority of sorts over the employee in God's economy, there is such order as well. And he has created this order with the distinct natures of male and female in mind. And our problem often is that even among all of the examples that I've just given, people are going to go to the ability of each person, oftentimes to argue the point someone might say something like, well, the janitor may be a great chef at the restaurant. So maybe I should let the janitor cook my food. And so it's not about ability. It's about the structure, order, and nature of a restaurant and each employee's role in that restaurant. And what we see on the face of the structure, or in terms of the operating functionality of a restaurant, you see a guy with a mop in his hand, and he's cleaning up the bathroom. And the next thing he does is go into the back room, and or the kitchen, I should say and start cooking. If this was a mom and pop restaurant, and there were two people working, this may be a different story. But if it's your average chain restaurant, or any other sort of environment where there are employees in every department, front of the house, back of the house, people cleaning bathrooms, people doing dishes, people hosting people, seating you and busing tables and cooking and taking your order and all of those things, that order and structure demands from us or explains for us what's going on in terms of who does what at a restaurant. Now, when we think about the Lord, and we think about the dynamics of being a Christian and what it looks like to be submitted to Christ, we oftentimes come to Christ and want to put things in order that makes it comfortable for us to operate as a Christian. We think all too often when coming to Christ, we are not discipled in such a way to as we're given an understanding of God's created order, God's salvific order, God's order of ecclesiology, and the nature of the covenant of God, the nature of Christ's work on the cross and the nature of our relationship with God. This definitely complicates things for Christians in the body of Christ. There are factions, there are denominations, there are people from all over the world who come to Christ in particular contexts. And because there is no longer a single church, of course, we had the great schism or the East West schism of the church in the 11th century. And then in the 16th century, we had the Reformation and in between all of those major breaks, there were obviously offshoots here and there. But for a very long time, we had only one, two or three expressions of the church in various contexts. For the most part, obviously, there have been for for as long as the church has been in existence, little pockets of perhaps heresies or just tribal or ancillary or fringe collections of Christians in various parts of the world. But for the most part, what we're talking about here is the fact that because we don't have a single church or one overarching authority, say for Christ in his word, many people come to Christ and make decisions based on their own old natures. And they don't understand that Christ has come to have all of them and have whole, you know, have authority over them entirely, not just part of them. And in submitting to Christ, we submit all of our old ways to Christ, we submit all of our thinking to Christ, we come under submission to his word and to his authority, which changes everything. And I think that oftentimes when we have this discussion with regard to patriarchy itself, we are stunted because we have lived in a feminized culture with one with first, second and third wave feminism, particularly here in the West in the United States of America. And so I want to say this because I have two daughters and as a dad as a father of two daughters, I would at times really like to let go of the boundaries that I've established and let my daughters explore every opportunity that is given to them, regardless of the boundaries that the Bible has for them. And I think that would be a travesty because I know that the world would offer them opportunities that the Bible doesn't offer them. And the world would say things about them that would go against the nature that God has given them the new nature in Christ Jesus that allows them and encourages them to embrace their not only their femininity, but the roles and the things in which God has created for them to do, whether it's to be a wife or a mom, or whether it's to be a to serve in a particular capacity or whatever gifts and talents that the Lord has given them. I don't get to say to my children, hey, the world is your oyster, and you can do whatever you want. The world is God's oyster and you must do what he has commanded us to do just like your father has to and within those boundaries of God's commands that are good and faithful and right and true, we will find his best for us, which is what we want. So anyway, I have gone into the vibe, if you will, of nature, but I haven't really discussed the specifics of what we mean by that biblically sort of went off on a tangent in a little casual discussion this evening. We will get back to it again on tomorrow evening and continue this discussion with regard to biblical patriarchy. Thank you once again for hanging out with us tonight on counted all joy. I am your host, Dr. Craig Greatman. And remember, you are living quorum deo before the face of God.