riverside_goetz_raw-audio_the_insiders_ goetz_0005

I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, I think it's important for us to understand that, That's a very good question. So I think it all starts with data. So you need to really have the right data in your system So you need to really have the right data in your system and you need to know what you're after. And this is where, what I've found, particularly especially when working in the consultancy business, where a lot of companies already struggle. So they might have a very good marketing automation phase, they might have a very good sales pitch, sales technique, but they are not particularly after the right prospects. So I think defining your target audience, this is where all the companies should really start, to really be super clear on who am I after. to really be super clear on who am I after. And once you define that, it's around getting data on these accounts in your CRM, I would say. it's around getting data on these accounts in your CRM, I would say. And the more insights, the more data you have, the better it is, but you need somebody or some system to analyze this data to make decisions out of it. And I think this is the, I would say, a bit boring, not super sexy to start with, but it has to be done. Exactly. Absolutely. More than happy to talk about this subject. I think when it comes to the next step, because we're just talking about data, so once you, let's say you know your target audience, you know whom to market or to sell to, it's around how you do that. And a lot of companies tend to sell their product right away. So it's like, here it is, it's nice and shiny, it does this and that, and they forget about that most of the people are not directly interested in it. So I think when it comes to the top of the funnel, so really starting to get brand awareness, starting that, you know, getting my name out there and trying to kind of figure out what do I stand for as a company, as a brand, then it gets a bit of interesting. So you need to kind of attract people. And you have so many touch points during the day, and we all know that, right? We're getting bombarded with messages and marketing slogans, advertisements, online, anywhere. So I think here you need to be, you need to find unique sweet spots. And I think this is different to every company, right? You have much more conservative companies, you have much more compelling companies. Sometimes you are in B2C and you have a very cool product that people can touch or, you know, really engage with. And sometimes it's a bit of more like, yeah, a software as a sales service solution where you say like, well, it doesn't sound like super cool, but what do I do with it? And what we tend to do is we try to leave people with a smile whenever they get in touch with our brand. Because we learned that this kind of resonates and sticks to the people rather than a product, a pure product-based message. If you're like, oh, that feature does this and this, and it connects to this certain API or interface, well, it could work if you talk to technicians or if you really have an R&D audience. But when you have a specific decision-maker unit that you want to address your solution to, we found out that it makes sense to have a bit of this disruptive, surprise, inspirational element where people are like, wow, that was catchy. I like that. Could be a slogan. Could be pictures or the story that you build up. But this is where people then tend to talk about it a bit more than basically just a product. I need to note that down, Richard. A smile test is good. We almost have the same. Because for me, whenever we come up with good campaigns or whenever we come up with campaigns, good is to be diagnosed by the audience. But whenever we come up with campaigns, we try to think of it as being it a video, being it an infographic, being it something that's being it a video, being it an infographic, being it whatever it might be, maybe even a nice static banner. Would that be something that you would forward to your friends and family just because of curiosity or just because it was done in such a cool way? And of course, you cannot hit the target 100%, but we try to achieve that. So like, yeah, that's kind of cool. It's neat. I would just forward it or share it with a couple of my friends who would exactly understand this kind of humor or this kind of plot twist or anything like that because that gives a bit of this viral factor that a lot of people are looking for right now. And of course, we're not in the TikTok community where we say like, okay, we need to produce video content on a daily basis. But I think you can turn your solutions into a bit more attractive chunks of marketing rather than just blasting out product sheets. Okay. Precisely. Perfect. Note it down, Richard. That's another great question because, you know, aligning marketing and sales is, I believe, on every marketer's agenda. It's just a question, how do you live it? And when it comes to sales, they're usually spotting just the opportunities where they just have to run into, sign the deal, and go for it, right? Unfortunately, it's not that easy most of the time, so you have to really work on that. Unfortunately, it's not that easy most of the time, so you have to really work with these commercial teams. And I think here, again, it can be a lot of fun. Rather than just pushing over marketing-qualified leads or saying, okay, we've fueled the pipeline, you take over now. It's a constant interaction, I think. It's a constant discussion where we get lots of valuable inputs from the sales guys because they're on there on the market. They're having discussions with prospects, with clients, account managers that also address different pain points or give us feedback on existing campaigns, on existing webinars, anything that is out there so we can use the data for our marketing campaigns and vice versa. So we feed into our insights into the sales pitch to make it as relevant as possible because I don't think that, yeah, if you have a very generic sales pitch, it resonates as much as a very generic marketing message. You can hit if you're lucky, but the spread loss is just immense. So I think it also sounds a bit boring, but it's unfortunately frequent collaboration. And I think once again here, you can turn it into creative brainstorming because commercial people, they do have a very creative brain when it comes to their sales pitches. So why not sometimes use it in your marketing messaging and combine it? Because then you really have, I think, a more seamless approach to your target audience rather than the siloed, driven approach. Okay, here's marketing, and then, yeah, there's a breach or maybe even a gap, and then there comes a sales approach. And ideally, you're speaking with the same tone or with the same voice to the customer so he or she even feels, oh, wow, that's one brand. They're communicating with the same kind of arguments or same advantages rather than, oh, are there two different companies, right? Yeah. Yeah. ABM is, I would consider ABM as the buzzword before AI popped up. So... Exactly. So even there, it's condensation, you know? It's focus, focus. No, but ABM, I mean, has been there, at least the term has been there for quite some time. And I think even there, I've seen a lot of companies mentioning and talking about account-based marketing, but what they do is basically marketing to bundle accounts. So they have a specific message, and then they say, well, this goes out to half of my database because they're interested in the tires, and the other half is interested in the steering wheel. So it's rather this. When you really talk about account-based marketing, you look really at a specific account, and this has to, of course, do with the value of the account. You know, is it really worth it? Because account-based marketing can take quite some effort and even some budget because you dig deeper. You try to really speak the language of that specific account. You need to find the narrative to kind of really address the specific pain points of those contacts on this account, which might differ, you know, from finance background to an HR background to an IT background. So you need to have people that are getting these insights, and of course there are tools out there that help you with it. And sometimes you can have the most dedicated messaging and creating landing pages with even the picture world of this account, and you won't hear anything back. And I have a funny story where we were trying to breach into an account for I think it was almost six or seven months, and we had some interactions back and forth, but nothing was really moving the needle. And so we dig deeper, and we found some more information on real social media, so far beyond LinkedIn. So it was Instagram, it was Facebook, but all openly available. And what got us in the end to a demo meeting was that we found out that a C-level executive out of this account, we found out which university he went. And so eventually we said, okay, let's buy a hoodie of this university and let's just send it over. Because we've done targeted booklets, brochures with LED signs on it, like everything very sophisticated. And we addressed it not to him, but to his assistant, because before that we just addressed it to him, and we're assuming the assistant just took care of it as the last barrier. And at some point, well, two, three weeks, nothing happened, but at some point he reached out to one of the inside sales guys that was trying to get him for over a decade, I would say. And then, so like, okay, I'm gonna listen to your demo. In the end, we didn't win the case, but to make it not too unicorn style. But no, no, it was really interesting to see sometimes there are these sensitive, more private thingies, and how can you twist them into your machinery, I would say. And sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. Yeah. Ah, okay. Yeah. So basically it is a discussion. So we have automation in place that kind of filters certain prospects or, yeah, kind of the different priority in terms of these accounts. But what we always do is we have a discussion around our top prospects. And then we kind of define a strategy. So this is the combination of, yeah, the sales and marketing effort, including inside sales, where we really go on into an account because it has been in there, in our CRM for quite some time, because we heard rumors, because we heard noise. We need to find out what's happening. And then we sometimes sit together and have a discussion around three, four, five accounts and say, okay, what is it that we can do? Does anybody, did anybody hear anything else? So we try to bring everything together that we do have because sometimes a lot of information is still not maintained in the CRM, but it's in the heads of the people. And this is what we constantly try to push. And this is what we constantly try to push to say, guys, if it's not in some machine or in some system, we can't access it and we cannot work with it. So this is why we have these meetings. And sometimes we can really quickly dismiss or we can quickly engage with a plan and then we come up with a strategic plan. And sometimes it's a longer discussion because we're missing information. We need to take different steps to say, okay, what do we need to do? Because we think there's lots of value in this account. So it is not fully automated yet. And I don't think it will ever be because there is, or maybe not ever, but it will not be in the foreseen future because there are so many human aspects to it that cannot yet be, I would say, quantified or being put into a system directly. Yeah. Yes. And I can fully relate to that. I've just been at a conference in London two or three weeks ago and we were discussing with some of my peers and they are all facing the same problem. It's around the data quality. And as you mentioned, Richard, it's really the fundament. It's the basis. So if this is already not working, how can you go further? So we really try to keep our systems up to date. We really try to work with third parties. It's around cleansing. It's around maintaining. It's around updating. It's around getting rid of old or not relevant data anymore. And this is not only due to GDPR reasons, but to really say, okay, we don't want to ride any dead horses. So let's really spend our effort and time and resources on the things that matter. So it's a constant effort. And I don't think I will ever be in that position to say, guys, we're 100% clear, all set. Let's just forget about data. It's all done and dusted. Unfortunately not. So it's really a constant effort and it requires a really high focus on it. All right. That's actually a tough question. Because the only constant is change. And it's hard to prepare for that. Say like, well, guys, always be open. Be open for change. And even in Amadeus, we're evolving at a quite fast pace. And this also leads sometimes to changes in hierarchies, leadership, but also in systems when it comes to Martak stack or anything like that. So how do you prepare yourself for that? I think one thing that is really good, even within Amadeus, and I know a lot of companies tend to do this, make mistakes. Trial and error. Go for it. Test the waters. And I think this is something what we can really do within Amadeus. We are eager to go and test new ways. And of course, we do mistakes on a daily basis. And the fun thing is really that we then sit down together and we analyze and say like, okay, why did it go wrong? Or could we have prevented it? Were there any other ways? And this is how we learn. And this is also how we constantly evolve. And the cool thing is that we can play back these results to other units within Amadeus that they can play with or they don't have to do the mistakes once again, right? So I think be open for change is easily said. I think you really have to live it and you have to also be up for it. I think if you're really someone that wants to have constant things on a daily basis and that is not up for change, it's going to be super tough. So unfortunately, I have teams around me that are very open, that are very willing to go for new ways and try new things. And fortunately, we do have a great employer that allows us to do that because I also know some companies that tend to say that, but they don't live up to it, which is a pity because then in the end, your employees will do it maybe once, but then they will never do it again because they feel like it's not the right place to do that. And I think you can only learn or grow when you do mistakes. We would all like to avoid it, right? But there's not only those one line that you can walk. There are multiple ones and I think learn from it and take another route and make it better. Absolutely. And I think here, just coming back to it, because when you look at it, how can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? How can you make it better? Maybe there is an argument to get two new resources. Maybe I can create a business case to go for this new solution that we can connect to our CRM. Something like that. It's always around finding arguments to justify your decision. I think this is a fun exercise where people tend to be like, well, okay, so we can think about everything? I'm like, yeah. Then, of course, I have to pull them back sometimes into reality, but it's very good of letting your creativity flow. I think this is just one thing that helps us to tackle some of the objectives that are out there. Correct. Exactly. Yeah, but they would then have to say just, okay, how did it happen? What did we do with the $15 million? Imagine that. The fun thing is that most of the time, it's not around the budget. I don't hear too many times that, okay, if we had our budget 100 times, everything would work out. It's really crazy out of this world, but usually, we stumble upon little things like, okay, but if we would have this organization helping us, for example, we installed inside sales in between marketing and sales. We had the shots to say, okay, you get one resource, we'll try it, which is also trial and error. We were very fortunate because it worked, and now we have more resources, and we are really embedding them to bridge the sometimes existing gap between marketing and sales, and it proved to be the right thing to do. So that's, I think, it did come here. Sure, that's a great question. I think you have to start with creating your customer profile first, so like the famous ICP, the ideal customer profile, and this has to be done together with your commercial or sales team. So you really have to sit down together, who are we after? Is it an individual person? Is it maybe a short or a smaller circle like a decision-maker unit? Is it the whole account consisting of 10, 15, 20 people? And then it really comes to, okay, how can we get their attention? Or maybe we are already engaged, so you need to define the stage. Do they already know us? Maybe not. Then you need to define how can we communicate with them, and you should start with the audience-centric view, what's in it for them, getting in touch with you. And usually a lot of companies say, well, we have tons of messages and value propositions and narratives. Let's shoot them over. Yeah, that usually doesn't really resonate very well. So make that, you have to act like as a profiler. You need to really create a profile. What are they after? What are their pain points? Then you should, if you have, you should include inside sales to do this qualification, like the typical bond qualification. I call it bond T because I'm missing the E for emotion there, but it's budget, authority, need, timeline, and my E for emotion to really say, are we able to build some sort of relationship with them? Do we have any good ambassador maybe already in there that we can talk differently to, that can maybe share some of these insights? And then build a plan. And it's not marketing department building a plan, nor the sales team department building a plan. It's both of them together. And then you start and then you test and do your trial and error exercise. Why not? Yeah, why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not?