Spotlight

A group of investigative reporters at the Boston Globe called Spotlight uncover the pre-sex scandal within the Catholic Church. The movie focuses on their reporting and the struggle they face as former Catholics in a Catholic town. The film is praised for its respectful portrayal and its subtle but powerful moments. It sheds light on the systemic issue and the role played by society in allowing the abuse to continue. The movie is compared to All the President's Men and is considered a Watergate moment for journalism. Hi, what's the big summer I'm getting? I'm Bonnie. And I'm Lindsay. Yay, the beast bag. You're welcome. Are you nervous? By popular demand, no. Yeah. So, we're here counting down the Oscar winners for best picture of the year from worst of best. We are all the way up to number 33. 33? Yeah. Is that like a submarine or? Really? Oh, I know. Too soon. Really? Yeah, me too. I've only been up for two years. No, I meant too soon because of a submarine accident. Oh, that was a submersible. A submersible. Not a submarine. They're all the same to me. Which is so different. Submarine means under the water. Yeah, there actually is a difference. I don't... Titanic. No. I'm just kidding. We're talking about Spotlight. Yes. From 2015. What's your history with Spotlight? I had seen it. I loved it. I don't know when I saw it. It was probably, you know, like five or six years ago. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. 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It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good. Well, things go in cycles. There's Room. I love Room. Oh, yeah. You've seen it? Oh, big fan. Yes, I love Room. Never heard of it. It is. Well, that will be a theme. Yeah, Room is about a woman who is abducted and lives in a underground lair with her son. Actually, this is the product of her captor, right? Yes, her captor kept her in there. She got pregnant and then had the baby and lived there. And this is inspired by a true story, right? Oh, yeah. Is this like a Elizabeth Smart kind of thing? Oh, similar. Yeah, I mean, I think she was probably kidnapped as a young adult, right? Okay. Yeah. And then had the baby in the room? Yeah, had the baby in the room. This is all taking place while she's abducted? In one room, yeah. Yeah. Oh, with the child. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think pretty much the whole movie is them in that one room for at least most of it. Yeah, a good portion of it, yeah. Yeah, but that's Room. I love Brie Larson, right? Yeah, Brie Larson is the main character. Captain Marvel. Did we watch Unicorn Store? I love that movie. Oh, it's fantastic. Never heard of it. It's a quirky little movie about, like, she wants a unicorn and she's like an adult. It's really good. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, but when was... Oh, I have seen this next movie. Oh, you've seen The Big Short? I read the book first and then really liked the book and then I think I've seen the movie. Yeah, it's kind of a... Oh, look, it's Kendall. Yeah, Kendall Weyers in it. Yeah, I didn't really remember she was in it until I was filming Screencast. It's kind of a big session. Oh, yeah, yeah. The guy in the position. Yeah, so it's kind of an all-star cast directed by Adam McKay. That's kind of a light or kind of a comic look at the economic crisis of 2008. You know, I say that and I've read the book. I don't know if I've seen the movie. Maybe I have. Ryan Gosling's in it. Steve Carell. See the guy in the suit? Yeah. Okay. I know Steve Carell. Brad Pitt is in it. Brad Pitt. Bobby. Christian Bale, definitely. Wow, that's a lot of people. Yeah, it's a big all-star cast. Is it a good movie? I like it, yeah. Yeah. It's a good book. I mean, really crazy. Oh, really nuts, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and so, I mean, the story kind of centers on these guys trying to profit off of the crisis. Right. They're profiting by packaging. Because subprime loans. Yeah, subprime loans. Yeah. It's a real racket. We should watch it. Yeah, we should watch it. I'd love to watch it. Okay. All right, well, that was just three movies we're going to watch. Oh, geez. Multiply. The Revenant. Never heard of it. I have heard of it. I, like, felt like I was supposed to see it, but it just kind of looked boring, to be honest. Yeah, I mean, it's a Leonardo DiCaprio stars as this movie about the American frontier and kind of a ruling ordeal this guy goes through. It's directed by Alejandro Inarritu, who's just coming off winning an Oscar for Birdman. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, and I am obsessed with Tom Hardy, but I still have not seen it. Yeah. Tom Hardy's in it. Tom Hardy is in this. He's great in this. He's one of, yeah. Have we seen him in anything else? He's been another Best Picture nominee this year, actually. But, yeah, I know you've seen Inception. Yes. He's in Inception. Okay. And have you seen The Dark Knight Rises? He plays Bane. You can't really recognize him. You get the, I'm Bane. No. Yeah. I don't think you should have seen that. Brooklyn. Yeah, I've never even heard of it. Would I love this? Yeah. It's the story of an Irish young woman who comes over, immigrates from Ireland. Actually, her family sends her to America so that she can support the family and send money back. Wow. Really wonderful, just kind of a coming-of-age story that's about the immigrant experience, but also about falling in love, and really well done. Saoirse Ronan plays the, not the title character, but the main character. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. I really liked it. Yeah, around the mid-century, I think. Probably, it looks like the 40s or 50s. There's a lot with her coming of age, but also some of the issues that immigrants dealt with at the time. A lot of the Irish would be derisively referred to as potato eaters, but that would actually come in very handy if they ever get stuck on Mars. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. I have seen that. The Martian is another big hit from 2015 that is about Matt Damon stuck on Mars, and he learns to make potatoes. Yeah. Yeah, I saw this. I read the book and saw this. I mean, I thought the book was more interesting of a medium, because the whole, like, him making potatoes when you're reading about it is really interesting. Like, in a movie, I was kind of like, I thought it was good. I didn't read the book, but I watched the movie and really liked this movie. Yeah, it's so watchable. Yeah. It's really, it's got a great cast, and it's kind of about this problem-solving. Yeah. You know, just on the individual level, and then by, like, the entire globe back home. Yeah. And I actually enjoyed it more, watching it more recently, because you see, you know, this doesn't feel that long ago, but there's just such a sense of good-spiritedness and cooperation, and there's, like, no, like, angsty polarization, and it's like, there's no villains. It's like, no one's like, oh, well, let them die, because it's too expensive. Right. And it's like the Chinese are like, well, let's, you know, reveal some of our secrets, because it's going to save this one person's life, and it's like, everybody's just cooperating, and it's just kind of a problem-solving. And you say that because we think about the things that kind of capture global interest are a lot of those things. Like, we just had, you know, the people in the submersible, but the world was like, oh, you know, concerned about them. I remember the kids in the cave. Right. They were stuck in the cave, and the, you know, even the, I mean, the well. That's a long time ago. Yeah, you and I remember, you know, the little girl stuck in the well, and yeah, that's a very, it's kind of very heartening that people recognize the dignity of life, and that we're not just expendable, you know. So, if you, you know, it's, you leave one person behind, it's, let's all rally as humanity to go get them. Yeah, but really, I really like the marshmallow movie. Yeah. And finally, we have Mad Max, Fury Road, which is the other Tom Hardy movie. Yes. Yeah, have you seen it? I've seen it, yes. It was very fun. I don't, I don't really, like, know the Mad Max, like, like. Yeah, I think the good thing is that you don't have to. Yeah, you really don't. It's just fun. It's really terrible. It is so good. It's really untested. It's really once in a while action. It's like one long action scene. So, Adam would love this. Yeah, yeah. But it is so well structured, like, even with, like, the non-stop action, you get character development, and it's, I think it's the best action-adventure movie since Raiders of the Lost Ark. I agree. And visually, it's just, like, it's so. And you don't need to have seen the. No. I mean, I have seen them, but I don't really remember them, so. What is it called? Fury Road? Mad Max, Fury Road, yeah. I haven't seen, I still haven't seen any other than this movie. Yeah, Tom Hardy and Charlize Theron. So, definitely. Nicholas Holtz. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he'd probably like the action. It's, like, post-apocalyptic. I think so. I don't know. So, yeah. It's a pretty good picture lineup. It was an active year for movies. Star Wars was rebooted this year. Oh, good one. Yeah, it was kind of the beginning. The beginning of my, like, rejection of Star Wars discourse completely. Same, yeah. It's, like, I think back before this movie, it's, like, Star Wars discourse was, like, almost all in agreement. Everybody hated the prequels. Everyone thought Empire is the best, but the first one is terrific, and Return of the Jedi is fun. But then, it's, like, everything just got, like, mean and nasty. And, like, all of a sudden, people are saying, well, actually, the prequels are pretty good. Yeah, where did that come from? Moment of silence for those before this year. Yes. Because I fully agree. And, you know, it actually is, like, I recently met someone that I work with. And we realized, like, we are, like, the same on Star Wars, which is what you're saying. Right. But it's such, like, a, like, oh, I found one. A fellow conservationist. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm kind of still on that level, and I just don't really care about Star Wars. I have no idea what you're saying. I didn't know we moved away from that. It's just a different, it's, like, there's a whole different fan base, and you just kind of, like, let them do their thing. Okay. Yeah. Pour one out for them, you know. The Force Awakens was a huge hit, and the Jurassic Park franchise was also rebooted this year. I'm a fan of that. Yeah, it's not as annoying as Star Wars. I mean, they are really bad movies. No, they're not good, but they are, man, you put a giant car or a giant dinosaur. I don't care what the movie is. Are you excited for The Meg, too? For the what? The Meg, too. I'm so, I love The Meg. I am so excited for The Meg, too. I've never seen The Meg. It's a Megmadon. Yeah, it is. It's a dinosaur that comes out from the box of the ocean fire. I really want to watch The Meg. We saw a really bad movie recently that had dinosaurs in it, and I loved it. It was terrible. Yeah. We've got to watch, make Dad watch The Meg. Oh, we can do that. Age of Ultron. It's a lot of not great franchise movies at the top, but Inside Out was an original Pixar movie. Oh, yeah, that was fun. Their last really great movie, in my opinion. I agree. Inside Out was the last great. What have they had since then? Well, not the last great, but one of, like, when they started getting, Coco also holds up very well. Actually, I haven't seen anything like that. Well, Elemental just came out. Oh, they were red. Onward, Luca. A lot of people like Soul. Oh, Luca is about the middle school music teacher? No, that's Soul. Soul. Oh, okay. Luca. Well, Twister 4, actually, I like quite a bit, too. Okay. Luca is about the Italian kids and the turn into sea creatures and all that. Turning red. Anyway, Inside Out was great. Okay, so now we're at Spotlight. Yeah, so what's Spotlight about? This is your job. Oh, gosh, sorry. Okay, so Spotlight is about this group of investigative reporters at the Boston Globe that's called Spotlight. This is a group that works on special projects like that. And so they started investigating the pre-sex scandal. Well, actually, it wasn't a scandal before that. They started investigating that, and they exposed the whole thing about the pre-sex scandal, brought down the cardinal law, and really changed the church. Major, major effort. It's like a Watergate moment. Right, yeah. I mean, this movie does get actually compared a lot, as does journalism, to how all the presidents have been. It's like journalism at its best. Exactly, yeah. Right. It's really these kind of movies that I think probably make people want to become journalists. Yeah, well, that's good. I watched it, and I was like, I'm going to go be a journalist. Yeah, so that's what the movie is about. And it has a great cast. Wonderful cast. Yeah, really great cast. And I like that tagline, read between the lines. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's really clever. Yeah, I think, I mean, I'm a huge Watergate fan of all the movies, read tons of books. It was an early obsession of mine, but I think I might like this one better. Yeah, well, this whole one does pitch for it, and the other one doesn't. So, I just think they did a great job of putting this in the movie. Yeah, what I loved about this movie is that it was so, it was just about the reporting, the investigation, exactly what was going on. There was nothing else. There wasn't any, and what I loved, and I thought they did so well, is that they didn't get into all the scandalous details. Because that is kind of like an easy draw, to pull people in with the lurid stuff. They did it so respectfully, and they just, the whole, the drama was just about their reporting, and it wasn't about... Yeah, and whatever we do get of what actually happened, it's always through the mouth of the victim. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and it feels very, it doesn't feel that kind of scandalous, looking for the tabloid lines. It feels so hard-hitting, and the little bit they give you is just what you need. What I think is, they just did so profoundly, is watching the characters themselves, most of them, especially the Michael Keaton character, but really, all of them, just struggle as Catholics, in a Catholic town. Well, lapsed Catholics. Right. Yeah, but Catholics... But even that term, lapsed, is an interesting one, because it's not like the language of rejection, or turning away. It's like, you know, I'm on a break, and it's probably something that Mike actually talks about. Yeah, beautifully. It's like he thought he'd come back at some point. Yeah, right, that's his, you know, he just kind of, I thought he described that so well, of really so many... Oh, it was so crazy. I like going to church as a kid, and fond memories, just fell away for the normal reasons, but always anticipated going back, and it was like, you could see his angst as he's like, you're robbing me of this thing. Well, they're all former Catholics, but none of them are bitter former Catholics. Right, yeah. One is just, like, he's going to Presbyterian Church, because his wife makes those decisions, and he's probably still be going to church if he married a Catholic, and... Which one was that? That's Matt. The one that lived by the... The one that lived by the treatment house. Right, and then, but what about the Michael Keaton character? Is he still going to church? No, I mean, pretty much all of them were... Were kind of followed up, but their Catholic identity, you know what I'm saying? He's close with the community. Yeah, and the East Coast, you know, especially Boston does, I remember when CJ was going to school there, everybody, like, the people at the university are... Nobody's from there, but everybody works there. Yeah. So, it was even like, the swim coach and the, you know, the security guards, they're like, we were laughing, because they were mostly named Murphy. Yeah. They were all these Boston Catholics. Yeah. But, yeah, just watching them, because this is... I think this is why it's more powerful than the other one, is that people are cynical about politics anyway, and maybe people had an idealized view of politics prior to Watergate. Right. And it moved to cynicism after that, definitely changed it. But church hurts, you know, being betrayed by spiritual leaders, that's so much worse. And their trust. I just even... So much of the movie is so subtle. I like just that one shot where Sasha's at church with her Nana, and you get this banal sermon where the priest makes this corny joke about, like, the internet's going to put me out of business. And you just see her look over at her Nana, and you see how wrapped up the Nana is, and just this look of trust, and including all her faith in this. Yeah. And it's heartbreaking. Yeah, I know. And then at the end, when she's reading the, you know, like, door and everything. Yeah. Well, and the movie doesn't oversell these moments. We don't get, like, Nana's going to turn away from the church forever, and you just see this kind of disappointment. Yeah, and, yeah. That's what I love, too. It's so, like, subtle, and it's not like... It's almost like it's not, like, condescending to the audience. Like, he doesn't... It's just kind of like it gives you enough, and it's like you will get it. Like, when I think it's the Mark Ruffalo characters, like, at the church, and there's the choir boys, and, like, you just... Yeah. They just show, like, the boys singing. And, like, nothing else has to be, like, said or whatever, but, like, the audience, like, gets it, you know? Yeah. And they're just kind of like that's just, like, a powerful moment of just, you know, no script or anything. Just showing you that visual for a moment is enough to really just... Yeah, and when she's doing the walking talk with the victim, it's like, oh, there's the church right there on the playground. Yeah. And the other thing that they did, I thought, really well is focus on the, you know, or at least, like, everybody gets that the individual actions are evil and horrific. Oh, yeah. Right? But also that it was allowed to go on, and that people looked at it the other way, and that this sort of whole system, not even just including the church system, but it went, like, beyond that. Yeah. And that it was everybody. And I think it's so powerful that scene where Batman, Michael Keaton... Robbie. Robbie is like, you know, okay, we got these guys, and he's like, well, what about the role we've played in this? And, you know, just realizing that he has been part of this. And I think it also portrays it really well in that how does that happen? It's because abusers prey on the vulnerable children from broken, you know, bad situations. So everybody else, it's easy to look the other way when it's not affecting all of their families. Right? Yeah. And that's why I really loved going back to this and seeing how thoughtful the movie is about what it wants to say. And taking this subject matter, which just invites anger and outrage, but just kind of focusing on, like, just... It's not a screed or an invective, but it's just very thoughtful in how it kind of looks at how institutions function. Yeah. How they go wrong and how they can end up serving the institution itself instead of who they exist. Because when we're talking to the victims, it's like they're definitely betrayed and victimized by the church. But the Boston Globe also owes them a duty of care, the legal establishment, the law enforcement. Yeah. They are stakeholders for all of these institutions that just let them down because they're just focused kind of on their own role within that institution. Yeah. And there's just kind of this disconnect between the individual and the group that they're part of. And so on that end, I really liked when that part where the judge says, okay, stop saying kind of law and say the archdiocese. As where, you know, you have to make it the institution versus the individual. But then you also see that with the Michael Douglas character and it's easy to say, okay, this is what the metro section did. Right. This is the metro when really this was, you know, this came across my plate and I don't remember it at this time. But it's like I personally made a decision. Yeah. It's not just the greater. Yeah. And I love, when movies do this and like I looked into like the real story after and like everything. Like you do like the side by side with like the casting that they did. Oh yeah. They like look like the people. Apparently like the real people on the spotlight team that are being portrayed. They were like a big part of the process and like just the amount of detail and work that went into respecting like the real story. Yeah. And like the real characters and, you know, these are real people and like everything just lines up, you know, so well. And even like when they go to that one priest door that like admits to molesting little boys. Oh yeah. That's like a real thing that happened. Yeah. I think Mark Ruffalo's and it was like, you know, so like, it's like pretty much it seemed like everything was just, you know, like it was like a really well done on the true story part, which. Yeah. It's hard to find in a lot of movies. Yeah. Another thing I appreciated was how they show the tactic that institutions have to protect themselves of isolating and maybe stigmatizing the outsider or the person who's a threat to the institution. Yeah. And you see that in the Marty Baron character who's the new head honcho of the Boston Globe, played by Liam Shriver, who's, you know, we get to see on the golf course where it's like, okay, well, he doesn't like sports, he's Jewish, he's not married, and he never was married. And just like how, doesn't really like draw any conclusions based on that, but it's just kind of setting these things where he's not part of, he's kind of on the outside and just kind of, you know, be careful that, you know, he'll have an agenda come in with an ex finding. But when we meet the character, I like how it's set up because we, before we meet him, we hear that, okay, this new guy's going to come in and he's going to make cuts, so he's a threat to our operation. And in that first restaurant scene, Michael Keaton isn't making eye contact, and you can see he's a little defensive, the questioning is like, okay, well, he's, you know, is this going to be a problem? There's definitely a layer of distrust. That never becomes a plot point in the movie, but it does an effective job about putting the audience on edge to the extent that we initially don't trust this guy, but then we get to, we kind of let go of our distrust. So, and then we see that throughout, because when the activist guy, the guy who's in charge of Snap Paul, is, before we even meet him, the reporters are kind of making fun of the name, like it's just a ridiculous name. So they are kind of on his side, and he does kind of come across as, you know, have 11 members, kind of weird, but then again, our experience with this character is that it kind of confirms the bias, but then lets us over-comment. Right. And we get that again with the lawyer played by Stanley Tichy. I don't know, yes. So he's a lawyer for the victims. Yeah, and this is another case where we first meet him, first of all we hear what a loose cannon he is, and then we just see how disheveled his office is, and before we even see him we hear him ripping into some other person, seems completely irrational. Right, yeah. But then it's like it doesn't sugar coat this character, we have to, we again have to overcome our suspicions of them. Yeah, and sometimes, you know, I think it really shows how sometimes you need that outside look into a, whatever system that you're in, to, you know, whether it's the quirky outsider, or it's the newcomer, or whatever, to be able to look and say, this is, this is not okay, and that serves an important purpose. I remember, so working, when I worked for the diocese here in San Diego, and this was several years ago, and Cardinal McElroy spoke to us about, brought all the staff for the diocese, and just kind of walked us through, I mean he was new to San Diego, but had been involved in some of this stuff. Of course he came from an auxiliary bishop in San Francisco, and he talked about, you know, why he'd made the changes he did when he came, and anyway, but he was talking about from years prior when he was in San Francisco, and he was talking about what it was like to be in the diocese when these cases would come up. And because by, at the auxiliary bishop level, and probably at the senior priest level too, but the auxiliary bishop, they don't get the victims thing, they get it from the attorneys who present them, they get the attorneys and the psychologists, you know, and this is, I'm not saying this to defend that hierarchy, but he was like, the attorneys always told them, don't meet with the victims, don't meet with the victims, that's bad for your case, you can't do that. Don't talk to them, stuff like that, and in San Francisco, they said, no, I want to meet with the victims, and then he said as soon as they met with the victims, it was like a whole different ballgame. They saw a completely different picture, and so you can see you have all these layers in between the victims, and then you have a couple of fringe characters defending them that are right, but are not accepted by the system, and then you've got like eight levels of the system, and then you've got the major decision makers who are just not thinking about the victims, and it's just the whole thing, and that's what they did, they just shook it up. It makes them easy to dismiss, because these are all, the defenders are all fallible people, and you know, another example of what I was talking about earlier is this guy who, Sparr I think, who left the priesthood and married a nun, it's like before we hear from him, he's got an axe to grind, and he's just off the rails, and left to marry a nun, and the first thing you hear him say is, oh, this is all about celibacy, and kind of like, it almost confirms that, okay, this guy has an axe to grind, and he's starting what's most personal to him, and so it almost confirms the reasons for dismissing him, but exactly, yeah, so I just love how we're constantly overcoming this resistance. Yeah, that is the challenge, and he actually, Siphe actually, I think he lives in San Diego, he is still, and he does have all those, he is that way, and everything's a conspiracy theory to him, but the problem is, you've got to sift through these things, because he is right about the basic, especially there, because he's a psychologist, right, so he was the one who was like, here's the percentage, and in Boston you have tons of priests, right, so a percentage, that percentage was, what did they say, 90 or, yeah, and then, but the problem was, each one of those priests had abused so many children. It's so enraging, you know, but, I mean, I appreciate, it's not a rageful movie, but it also doesn't sugarcoat anything. Yeah, and we've also seen it, like, so we had a priest at our parish, who, he was a visiting priest, he was regularly visiting, I won't say, but he was removed by the cardinal, and it's so interesting, this was only a few years ago, like, so well after this point, and so many of the parishioners were outraged, outraged that this, you know, because they didn't, because he's such a nice priest, Yeah, and his issue was different, it was a, it wasn't an underage girl, you know, but she was like 17, almost 18. Oh, jeez, what? Yeah, so, anyway, so they were like, well, that's different, that's not a, that's not a 12-year-old boy, but it's still a victim, and it was, it was decades ago, and all this kind of stuff, but it was so interesting watching these same people in the parish, who are outraged about these things happening that they hear about that they don't know about, but when it happens to a priest that they know, and like, and trust, they're like that bad bishop, that, the cardinal, they still are like that. Oh, no, definitely, yeah. But I do think it's, that's part of the problem when you have these systems of trust, you know, because again, Cardinal Long, he doesn't know the victims, but he does know these priests, right, that are under his, he's like the dad for all these priests, you know, so he's, they just think, okay, they can be rehabilitated, and, and just sent back into parish after parish, but I love how they pointed out that letter from the auxiliary bishop, who's like, this is not okay, you know, why is he back in there? Maybe, respectfully, he shouldn't. Yeah, and I, well, I don't want to put it in the podcast, but I mean, there's other things. Makes me think of, like, well, I'll cut this out, but Mikey's coach, you knew him and trusted him, and then like, when you, I think you were describing you're at the hearing, you're like, oh, wow, this is true. Let's not cut it out, because I think this is such a good example. So our youngest son, Mikey, there was a, in our town, a little karate studio. And Mikey was really involved in it. And they would do, I mean, they would have all this stuff going on. Mikey was one of the helpers. Yeah. You know, I had always, anytime you have your kid, I was grilled. Mikey was never concerned about him and never had any issues with Mikey. And as a parent, I'm thinking, you know, if you have an abuser, and he's so close to my son, and he's shown no inappropriate at all, then he's not an abuser. But then I did go to the hearing. I actually went to the hearing with some of the other parents to, as a support for this guy who was wrongly accused. And it was, I'll never forget that just being at the hearing, and then just like, oh, oh, my, oh, my gosh, this is, this is true. And then having to tell Mikey afterwards. And then I, and that's how I really firsthand learned, like, this is what abusers do, is they, they know how to pick their victims. They pick their victims, and they isolate them, and they get in their heads, and they don't touch the other kids, and it's insidious. So it was, yeah, it was really close to home. But, but you can understand, and this was, you know, there's no system around him. So he went to jail. And, yeah, but, and it all fizzled. The whole defense fizzled at this thing, because every single one of us realized, like, you had to be completely delusional after this. Yeah. Yeah. That's not okay. I think it was worked out to the benefit of the filmmakers that this group happened to be named Spotlight, because that's such a great theme, is shining a light. And so much of the, you know, it's not a very visually ostentatious movie, but there's so much care to where lights are shining. And like, like, when they're in that, that kind of basement, that their work is, is like, they're in a dark room, looking at things, and the light shining on it. And like in Mark Ruffalo's room, Mike's room, there's a lamp right on his laptop, where he's doing his work. It's very clever. And it's not only come up in the movie, but it's also, like, a lot of that is also very in tune with the Gospels have a lot about, you know, putting in light under a bushel. Right, don't do that. You go up better than I do. But it's like, how crucial light is in the darkness. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because this is, yeah, I mean, this is such a important role that they did, and they changed how the church did things. And, and that's a good thing. That's a good thing. I mean, this was really, this group was a blessing for the church. It is so crazy. Like, I was looking up some stuff today, there's still like, you know, a lot of Catholics that are like, this is all, all the victims, quote, unquote, and this baseless accusation. I don't think that they're... Or like, everybody does it. No, there's not, I'm sure there's not many, but you know, like, on the internet, like, you can find stuff. Which is in the dark. Right? That those, it is, the internet is in the dark. Everybody's anonymous. Right. Like, they're in the... Yeah. They, you know, they're not saying it in the light of day to other people. One of the problems is not so much denying it, but just kind of minimizing it. Yeah. Or like, okay, well, the Boy Scouts are doing it too, and the SBC. Yeah, that's a weird argument that gets brought up a lot. Yeah. It's like the same percentage as regular population. Yeah. It's like, all right, well, that's kind of irrelevant. Yeah, and that's the thing that I think is important, is to, you know, you've got to own it. Right. And you have to do the, you know, you have to... Because it is just, it's horrifying and disgusting once you shine a light on it. Yeah. And it's just, there's no reaction. You don't defend it anymore. Yeah. You're just like, okay, let's move forward. We've got to change things. We've got to compensate the victims, you know. Put a bunch of men in jail. Put, well, sadly, most of them are dead. But, you know, but they put in jail... No, yeah, almost. I mean, the vast majority of them had long... I mean, in San Diego? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it doesn't matter because, you know, even in San Diego, everything had been done. This was bishops that are long dead that had actually moved priests around. As a matter of fact, most of them were in Riverside, which at that point was part of the Catholic Diocese of San Diego, and is no longer part. So, you know, San Diego went bankrupt, and they don't even have that. But it doesn't matter. Yeah. You have to go forward with it, and this is just how you operate. Well, I like this movie better than I remember it. Yeah. I just really think this is my top movie so far. Yeah. I don't really care. It's just so good. Yeah, it's really good. Just really, I don't know that there's a bad scene. I just feel like they don't make them like this often. They could have done so much with just like the people, the investigators, the journalists. They were so professional, and it was heavy, and you could see it affected them, but there wasn't like these big breakdowns. They didn't make it about the people. Manufactured conflict. Yeah. They just kept it on the story. I was listening to one podcast that complained about, like, Mark Ruffalo's Give Me an Oscar scene. He was so great in that scene. Yeah. I mean, maybe they have a point, because I know exactly what scene they were talking about. Yeah. That's right. I think the movie stands out just because the rest of the movie is so understated. Yes. Yeah. But it's just you really need that moment of anger. You do. Yeah. Like, these are kids. Right. It would have been weird if there wasn't anything like that in there. Yeah. You know? Like, yeah. Yeah, and he's great. I think it was the right choice to, like, express that emotion. Yeah. Like, I thought it was great. Yeah. Right. And, yeah, that's that scene. He's like, yeah, it could have been any of us, because, you know, that's that whole, you know, it happens to those kind of kids. Those, you know, the people that we, you know, kind of blind to society, even though they're in our schools and in the, you know, and that's just wrong. Yeah. So I loved, because his outrage is our outrage. Yeah. You know? So it's just like. Yeah. And then he clarifies it more in that following scene. Yeah, he does. Where he says, we talked about it earlier, about how he thought he'd go back one day. Yeah. Yeah. And they robbed it from him. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Really, really good movie. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't pick any of the low-hanging fruit. Yeah. I mean, we do see Cardinal Law, and it doesn't, like, go over the top in making him villainous or, like, you know. Yeah. I don't think it's necessarily portrayed as a great guy, but it's not like, doesn't undermine him unfairly. Yeah. Right. I think it portrays him pretty accurately. Yeah. You know, just as a flawed character, but not an evil character. Just as a flawed character. He has villainous vibes, but not because of, like, the bias of the movie. Well, once you find out, like, that she knew. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have a lot of grace for his mistakes. No. Personally. No. And he didn't get, yeah. But they didn't hit it over the head. He wasn't, like, the, you know. Right. He's not trying to. He's not personally molesting kids. He's not doing his own pro-molester. So many ways your filmmakers would have had shorthands. Like, when he's meeting with a Marty character, and someone brings him coffee or something, he could have said, oh, thanks, toots. Or, like, something that shows, like, oh, this is a bad guy. Yeah. Where it doesn't take any of those cheap shots. Right. Right. They show how. He does have a very nice office. Yeah. But it doesn't, like, overplay. Right. Yeah. And it shows how hard these things are. Like, if you don't have a spotlight on it, you don't see it. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's just really. I agree. This is a really powerful movie. I think you're right. I think maybe this is. That's probably my favorite. What was my favorite before this? I don't know. Yeah. But I could watch that. I really like Forrest Gump, too. I think Titanic was your favorite, actually. Sure, sure. You loved Titanic. You became a fan. Yeah. You did love Titanic. No, I mean. Huh? You had said. Oh, no. A shipwreck? No. In the podcast, you had said Marty. Oh, I love Marty. Helping with my galley, I think. Oh, I love Helping with my galley. Look at what we got there. Yeah. Yeah. No. Helping with my galley was not Thomas More. No, I said also Thomas More. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 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