REAL EP 2

In this podcast episode, Cooper and Iman discuss the psychology of persuasion. They emphasize the importance of knowing the other party and their cultural and social differences. They also discuss the role of closeness and trust in persuasion. They mention that understanding the tricks people use to persuade you can be helpful. They talk about the three main ways of supporting an argument: ethos, pathos, and logos. They explain that ethos appeals to authority or reliability, pathos appeals to emotions, and logos appeals to logic and data. They give examples of how these appeals are used in everyday life, such as in advertisements and political campaigns. They also mention the importance of being aware of logical fallacies in persuasive arguments. Alright, this is episode two of our podcast series. This episode is going to be about the psychology of persuasion. I'm Cooper. Of course, I'm joined here with Iman again. And yeah, and today we're going to be going through persuasion. So persuasion is a very important concept in communication. A lot of most conversations have something you're trying to persuade someone to do something, or they're trying to persuade you to do something. It's very transactional, and there's certain theories of transactional conversation. But persuasion is very, very key, and knowing how to do it is important. So we want to... How would you say you start the process of persuading someone? What do you think are some of the first key things you should do? You've got to have a conversation. Yeah, and I think the first step, really, in doing so is knowing who the other party is. It's knowing who the other party is and what strategies you will need to employ to persuade a certain person. Knowing your cultural and social differences. Do you guys live around the same area? Are they familiar with the same things you are? Do you have the same interests? Do you have the same political opinions? Do you have similar cultural backgrounds? Or are you from wildly different cultures and societies? All of these factors really come into play when you're trying to persuade someone. Another thing is your closeness. Have you ever tried to persuade someone that you don't really know? It's a lot harder to do that because they don't trust you, right? Say you and a friend are arguing about where to go eat. It's a very common issue. You want to eat at Wendy's and they want to eat at Taco Bell. Any sort of disagreements like that. Or a stranger. Like a salesman. He's trying to convince you to buy something. He's going to pull out every trick in the book to try to get you to buy it. Like a used car salesman. He's going to try to get you this used car. Not only is knowing how to persuade someone helpful, but knowing the tricks people will use to persuade you and influence you can also be really helpful. Oh yeah, like bartering. Like buying a car. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah. Like I said, almost every single conversation has some sort of persuasive or transactional element to it. And like whenever you're going to, whenever you figure out who your party is, who the person or people you are trying to influence and persuade is, the next thing you need to know is a goal. Like what are you exactly trying to accomplish? Are you trying to get them to agree with you on a political stance? Are you trying to change their mind on a certain opinion on media? We're trying to understand your point. Having a goal will really help you set what you're trying to communicate for. Yeah. I mean, one of the best ways of doing this, for example, is an appeal to need. Once you have your goal, you have to empathize with the other person a little bit. Understand their needs, their social needs, their like living standards, like everything, all of these things. Like you're fulfilling what they want to do, what you want, basically. You try to give them reasons that agreeing with you will help them in the long run. Because don't want, a lot of people won't be empathetic enough to change their views just because another person asked them nicely. Right? Yeah, yeah. The huge, yeah, it's just like a display of any sort of powerful and yeah, yeah. Yeah, I feel like some of the key ways that most persuasive speakers and also just everyone really uses, people use ethos, pathos, and logos. They're the three main ways of beefing up, supporting your argument. And we can go through those. I mean, ethos, very common. Basically, it's an appeal to authority or reliability. Yeah, like if you bring in a trusted expert in a field, say you are a climate change activist, and you were on, you're on CNN trying to make a point about the recent EPA environment, where I'm making something up, EPA Act. Basically, using your credentials as a, you know, expert, as a climate expert, you can convince the audience that, yeah, I know what I'm talking about. You, these are the facts, lay it all out like that. You are a reliable narrator other than the anchor, who just knows broadly about the topic. And the next would be pathos. Pathos is like emotion, and that's one of the key players that is used almost every day. A lot of people respond really well to emotional calls for action and other things like that. Do you ever see those puppy commercials? Like for the ASPCA, where they just show a bunch of sad puppies on camera, and like, you need to donate $5 now in order to... Yeah, I assume so, they probably still need money. Yeah, like donate $5 now, we'll send you a t-shirt, like $20 or something like that. But yeah, there's examples all around, like people, like in empathy, if you're in a conversation with someone, and you need them, you're trying to get them to do a favor for you, and just anything like that, like get them to empathize with you, if you really want them to, if you really want to further your goals. Empathy is a very important part of communication as a whole. Some people have a lot of empathy, some people have a little bit of empathy, but in order to thoroughly convince someone, I think that's one of the most important parts, is like emotion. I mean, a lot of, oh yeah, a lot of arguments are one of just like emotion alone, like if you're able to confidently say, like not just like emotion in your words, but emotion in your tone, like being confident, being like assertive, but also not being like over-aggressive will help further your goal. They'll be like, yeah, this guy, he knows what he's talking about. Very, you seem smart and reliable. It's a way of like ethos and pathos, right? And of course, logos is logic. One of the, another key things, like hard data, statistics, stuff like that. It really is one of the most, I think it is the most important part. Yeah. The physical real world arguments and data about your certain cause or agenda, really. Like, how would you use logos in a conversation? What would be, what's your go-to statistic you like to pull up? You have a go-to statistic? Oh, shit. Yeah. I mean, that's a, DHS is like a big issue and like, you could use that a lot of ways. Same, like if people are arguing about, a very popular talking point is like, we can bring it into like even Roe v. Wade, for example. In 2021, the United States Supreme Court overruled Roe v. Wade, basically making, basically get rid of federal protections for abortion across the nation. Yeah. And like, if you're arguing, this is very, very controversial point for a lot of people and it wasn't too long ago. And like bringing this up, like a lot of advocates for getting rid of abortion will say like, yeah, a bunch of abortions are only used by teenagers who just get pregnant because they're stupid. And like, it really isn't that simple. And teenage pregnancy, of course, is on the decrease. And it really, it's not the whole issue of most, there are very many like mature, like adults who need abortions for a variety of medical and just other valid reasons. And banning access to a medical procedure just because of some reckless teenagers doesn't seem very, you know, logical, right? And just stuff like that. It's bringing, making sure that you have some sort of backing on all three sides will really ensure that your persuasive argument is that much stronger and that much harder to poke holes in. And yeah, it's, I mean, it's everywhere. Advertisement. Yeah. It's very specific. It's in your face. Billboard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Advertisement is how capitalism really works. Like a bunch of people make very similar products. How do you get to make yours stand out? Most people. Oh yeah. We mentioned the SPCA, but also like political advertisements will make people like angry or frightened and try to bang off of that. You'll see like, yeah, that's like pathos. You'll see billboards advertising like world's best coffee. And it's like, obviously it's not like factually true, but it seems, it brings a sort of reliability. Same with, like, there'll be a lot of, you'll see like T-Mobile ads and like AT&T ads. Like we have cheaper deals or we, we, we have a larger network, like a wider access range across like the whole nation compared to our competitors. And it's just like a lot of these numbers, while they're not entirely true, they definitely, they, they make their arguments seem very legitimate, make their products seem good. And, you know, they get, they get smarter every day. It's like, and some good, some really bad, like advertising campaigns. And like, it just brings into like, it brings us into misinformation as well. Like a lot of these advertisements border on like actual like logical fallacies. And like, that logical fallacies are a big thing to watch out for when it comes to persuasion as well. People aren't just going to let you quote statistics at them, even if you are right, or if they are true, they still will be, a lot of people will still be grounded in their beliefs and want to fight for them. And they, they'll use these different logical fallacies to convince you and also convince themselves that they are in the right. And knowing how to look out for them is very important as well. So, I think one of you, the first one you mentioned to me was the, like, slippery slope. Was it that? You, would you mind explaining that one? Yeah, it's, it's the claim that, um, if, um, like, it's sort of the same claim as like, um, that was used with like marijuana back in like the 80s and 90s. Like, it's a gateway drug that if kids start smoking, um, if people start smoking weed, the next week they're only, they're going to be doing meth and stuff. Like, it's never supported by claims or evidence. Yeah. But, uh, yeah. Yeah. It's just, it's making up words. It's making up worse outcomes that are just not most of the time, not true or not likely. And one of the next ones, like a straw man, which is similar to, um, at the slippery slope, but it's misrepresenting the other person's argument. So if someone is saying, um, I support the, um, uh, I support rehabilitation for, for, for like drug users instead of, um, imprisonment. And they're like, oh, so you want everyone to just smoke crack outside then? Like, that's, that's, that's, that's the, uh, an example of a logical, uh, of a straw man. Yeah. Like, no, I don't want people doing drugs outside. I just want them to be cared for and to get help instead of punished for, for things that are, that are dangerous and are addictive. Yeah. Yeah. It's something that like, like that, that, that brings us closer to like an ad hominem, which is also similar where instead of like, um, uh, insulting, um, someone's like beliefs and claims, you instead attack them personally. Uh, and you know, just being, it's being mean, it's insulting people instead of actually arguing, which is what a lot of people fall back on when they start to, to feel like they're, they're on the losing side, unfortunately. And yeah, they, they, they don't want to, to appear like they're, they're weak or they were wrong. So they'll just double down and, and yeah, it's, it sucks, but knowing how to recognize it in combat that is very, very key and crucial. And, uh, one of the last, um, logical fallacies I want to talk about is circular arguments. Um, I feel like a lot of people end up running into the same thing where they, you know, they get stuck, um, arguing about the same two or three things and all your arguments basically say the same thing. So in circular, um, a circular argument is just that. It's the same premise, the same statement was just the premise and conclusion. There's no new information. There's no justification for what was said. You're just stating a claim and then saying the same thing. You're repeating yourself. Yeah. Yeah. They got hired. So they, so they deserve the job. That's no, why did they get hired? Because they were, they were qualified in this and that. And there's other stuff. There's, there's so many different ways for people to misrepresent and just misinform an audience. And if you're trying to persuade someone, being able to fight back against certain logical fallacies is invaluable. Yeah. Um, so that's pretty much it. That concludes the episode, our second episode for this podcast series. Um, we hope you enjoyed. Um, just remember to include all of these helpful tips next time you're arguing about lunch or dinner or politics or whatever it is you may argue with. Um, but yeah, we hope you have a good day. I've been Cooper. And good night.