FSEM Conversations Final Draft

The podcast hosts discuss their plans to explore the theme of creation in various texts. They mention Birding Sweetgrass, the Jewish Study Bible, Frankenstein, and Frankenstein in Baghdad. They plan to compare and contrast these texts to identify intriguing aspects of creation. They start by discussing the cultural significance of the Jewish Study Bible and the Book of Genesis, particularly the story of Adam and Eve and its influence on Christianity and Judaism. They also mention the Haudenosaunee creation story and the idea of harmony with nature. They then move on to discuss Victor Frankenstein's creation in the 1818 text, noting the power dynamic between the creator and the creation. They mention that Frankenstein initially craves godly power, but is later confronted with the consequences of his creation. Welcome back guys and welcome back to the podcast. I'm Jack Caravan and I'm Thomas Lalla and we say welcome back, but there wasn't a first one and I'm not sure there's going to be a second one, but welcome to the podcast. Welcome to the FSEM Conversations Final Project. We plan on exploring the ideas of creation in several texts we've discussed over the first semester, such as Birding Sweetgrass, the Jewish Study Bible, Frankenstein, and finally, Frankenstein in Baghdad. Creation represents a variety of different things in these texts in Birding Sweetgrass and the Jewish Study Bible. Creation revolves around, you know, the creation of the world through the lenses of different cultures and religions that possess their own unique beliefs and stories. All right, so what are we going to do with these texts? So we're kind of planning on juxtaposing, finding similarities and differences between each of these creation stories and kind of identify different aspects that we think are intriguing or we kind of can relate to other creation stories that we've read. So like Frankenstein, the 1818 text by Mary Shelley and Frankenstein in Baghdad, we kind of both want to centralize and focus on the comparison between these two as well as the Jewish Study Bible, the Book of Genesis, as well as Birding Sweetgrass and kind of compare how those two texts find their similarities and differences about creation. All right, so to start us off, we're going to open up with the Jewish Study Bible and the Book of Genesis. This one, this text is a very, a very influential text in the thought of a kind of modern society where cultures govern, like countries, like people's moral foundations are kind of built off this narrative and this kind of guideline of creation. This narrative addresses kind of the central questions of what kind of life is and like what sins and the goodness and badness of evil and actions that, the cause of actions that people create of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and kind of like the relationship between how our actions result with that of nature. Yeah, I think this text is interesting, you know, certainly because of its cultural significance throughout Christianity, throughout the world. I think, you know, with the story of Adam and Eve, you know, it just has so much significance to so many people around the world. And it's not necessarily the first creation story. I think culturally it kind of has that feel because it's so significant. But I certainly think it's very influential also because of its relation to not only Christianity, but Judaism. I think that tie between the two of them is what makes it such a staple when it comes to, you know, that's one of the first stories you think of when it becomes, you know, when you're talking about creation stories. And so, you know, we've discussed a bunch throughout the semester, including the one that sticks out to me is the Babylonian creation story where, you know, again, like a creation story and, you know, certainly before Christianity, but, you know, it's not as culturally significant because of, you know I guess events throughout history certainly, but, you know, the population. Yeah, I think before you mentioned that because you have like the beginning creation stories of what you just said, the Babylonian one, but then also how you brought up Judaism as well, because like these two dominant, two of the most dominant religions in the world that are followed by billions of people between the two. I think that just because those two simulate from the first book of the Torah, I think that's what kind of fuels it with that. Yeah, for sure. I'm trying to think, what do you think is most, you know, intriguing about the Genesis creation story? I, for me, I feel like it is like the guidelines of how like modern society, or how society is, how you have this, like a man, woman, and like you kind of have the thought of like marriage and like this kind of responsibilities and like stewardship within life and kind of creates this structure and manner of like, there's like kind of an image of God and kind of goes like that. What do you think? I think, you know, certainly along the same lines, I mean, growing up Catholic myself, I've read that book of Genesis in Sunday school probably 10 times over, but you know, I just think for me, it's had a lot of significance on like my upbringing, but I also think that it's, there's a lot of like, not, I shouldn't say cliches, but you know, there's certainly a lot of like marriage and sin, especially along, like within the Christian religion, that have some significance to my life just because I grew up Catholic. So along the lines of like kind of like cultural and like religions, how would you connect this to like compare it to like the Haudenosaunee creation story with Skywomen bringing sweetgrass? I think, well, one, you know, they're both culturally significant in their own right to one, you know, bringing sweetgrass to Haudenosaunee. I also think that the, not the vividness, but I would say the creation story, I mean, obviously, you know, there was no Adam and Eve, and there was no Skywomen per se, but I think, you know, the aspects of early peoples trying to, you know, piece together on how this came to be, how this world came to be. And I just think how, you know, it's so, it's so interesting how, you know, people on this, on this point of the map and the people on this point of the map had their own kind of spin on what really happened. And, you know, obviously, you know, there was no Adam and Eve, and there was no Garden of Eden. It was just like, you know, the Skywomen falling out of the sky, landing on the turtle. Like, did that really happen? Maybe. It's possible, but I don't, you know, I'm not sure that it really happened, but it's, it's very interesting to see how older peoples, older cultures, different cultures from, from all over the world can, can really, you know, use their best way without science, you know, because there's no modern science at the time to really, you know, piece together on what they really thought. So going back to what you said, like how this point of the map and the people on this point and that point, how they're kind of, their idea of creation is obviously completely different on different sides of the spectrum. I think that's very interesting how, obviously, because the study by the book of Genesis, we have kind of, we just kind of talked about Adam and Eve's, like the structure of the humanity, responsibility, stewardship, actions, causation, and then how that kind of like fuels, or it's like a big point in major, in society, I feel like for many people, and then how well, as well as how in Haudenosaunee culture, how this connection with, or this harmony with nature, this connection with that and how that idea fuels their, their culture, their society, their way of life, and how you kind of find similarities of that. They might be completely different opposite sides of the spectrum, but they could still fuel every, like every person's day to life. I think that's a good point. I think, you know, like you said, you know, regardless of where you are on the map, people kind of have their own, their own story and their own stand on really, you know, their creation. And they both serve the same purpose in terms of, you know, this is what happened. And, you know, they kind of, you know, push into, push into the idea that, you know, this is how to live your life. This is, you know, some guidelines, I guess no one's really holding you to, and this is how you should do it, but this is certainly, you know, the perceived expectation, right? Sure. Yeah, I agree. I think it's certainly like a guideline in terms of how you should live, you know, why it's important to do so. And I think, you know, the perceptions, especially the book of Genesis have changed drastically throughout the years of, you know, what's, what should and what shouldn't, and that kind of stuff. But I would like to transition into, you know, the 1818 text of Frankenstein and, and not only its significance in terms of creation, but, you know, and not only, you know, how it ties into Brady's Sweetgrass and the Jewish Study Bible, but further on we'll discuss, you know, its spinoff in Frankenstein and Baghdad. So, yeah. So I think the one thing that I kind of took away, a major point in this style of creation, obviously completely, a little far-fetched and different between these other two we just discussed, but this relationship between like the creator and the creation, like in Victor Frankenstein, he's, it's the only thing he said, it's hard to, the only thing he said his mind to, everything was fueled by this. And however, when this creation happened, the creature, it's the, the table just turned, everything just flipped on its head. His idea of his creation referring to him as a wretch and how his, how he said his dreams had vanished and how like it's like astonishing power plays within his hands, like this kind of godly characteristic that he kind of talks about and how he just kind of just changes it drastically. I think that just surprised me the most. I like your point where, you know, you say he, it's like a godly interaction, such that like, you know, it's almost like a sublevel to, you know, we have Sky Woman, you have God in the Jewish study Bible. It's almost as if in the 1818 text with Victor Frankenstein and, and you know, in Frankenstein and Baghdad, there's, there is, there is a creator. There is some sort of God, even though he is man, he is man, but he's kind of playing this God role in terms of, do you think he craves that godly, like power? I think, I think he does until he realizes what he's created. And I feel like, you know, he's playing this role of God, you know, in creating life, not organically, but through, you know, the process of almost building a human. Yeah. And, which he essentially does. Right. He builds this monster, but I think, I think he was kind of craving this, this like scientific power or maybe, maybe godly power. But I think once he realizes what, what he did and like, what he's created, like, you know, there's no stopping, you can't really stop that once it's already created, kind of like breathes life into him. Yeah. Almost like in, you know, in, in the Jewish study Bible, God breathes life into Adam, like you kind of breathe his life into this monster. But then I kind of sense of after in the Garden of Eden, when he eats the forbidden fruit and God kind of just shifts his, for a quick second, his whole, his thoughts, his perceptions, you may have like there's imperfect being this whole entire thing about how that I feel like kind of find a little similarities, but instead of holding this grudge and this perception of like an imperfect being, like God does in Genesis, Victor Frankenstein just holds it without or throughout the story. Yeah. And I think, you know, similarly throughout his creation in Frankenstein and Baghdad, there's, you know, the, with the creation of the, what's the name and similar to Frankenstein and Baghdad, there's just like this lost connection between, you know, the creator created and the creator. I think similarly, and you can, you know, you can kind of make the same connection in the book of Genesis, like, you know, with, with Adam and Eve, like even the forbidden fruit, there's almost like this disconnection and not so much in Genesis, but certainly in the Frankenstein texts, there's this, you know, almost like, like parental connection that this monster searching for, but there's that figure, like a, like a, like a thought. I feel like in the original Frankenstein, he's looking for that companionship. He's looking for that, that parental figure where you can look to, cause like this, this you've been created from this thing, but I think it's lacking because it's not like he was born. There's no like actual connection. One day he was created and, and, you know, that's it. He's created and there are their own separate entities without some sort of connection. But I think that's, what's in both texts. Yeah. They're both, they kind of go off on this, they kind of diverge off this path and they're, they're, they're killing and they're, you know, they're murdering and pillaging like all this crazy stuff. But like, I think without this like real supervision or like, like, like someone to like model after is, that's what it's lacking. That's what I think. Yeah. Cause of what's his name. After he has his creation, he goes on his rampage, fueled by justice, perceived justice for what's going on in the war. And I, in Baghdad and he thinks he's doing well, he thinks he's doing the right thing until it ends up being this, like just never ending cycle of murder and limbs falling off and having to resupply it. And the good and the bad kind of become, it's not instead of black and white, it's just kind of this gray, ambiguous, like you don't, is what he's doing right still. Like he brings up that question to himself. So I thought that was pretty interesting with that text. I think, I know, go ahead, keep going. I was just thinking between, you know, both texts, it's different in the Frankenstein and Baghdad texts because he needs, there comes to a point where he needs to keep doing this killing and murdering just to stay alive. But I think in the 1818 text, it's kind of a different spin. It's, I think he just keeps going off on this, this like rampage, just because there is no connection. Like there's no way to guide him. There's no one to, something that he's like, yeah, cause you're in 18, in Baghdad, he's got this like perceived mission to create like justice for what's going on. But in 1818, he's just doing, cause he doesn't have this, you got nothing really. Like we said there. Does that wrap us up? Yeah. All right. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you.