Dezaraypowerfulbirth

Desiree, a mother of four boys, had four C-sections before opting for a home birth for her fifth child. She faced challenges as a nurse during the pandemic, leading to her speaking out against mandates and adverse reactions. She eventually quit her job and pursued alternative career paths, including natural nutrition and herbalist courses. Desiree decided on a home birth due to her negative experiences with hospital births and wanting to have a natural birth. Her previous births were rushed and she felt her choices were disregarded. She shares her journey of reclaiming her power and finding confidence in her body's ability to give birth naturally. Hello everybody and welcome back to the Noble Mother podcast. This is our companion series and I have such a powerful reclamation of a mother today, Desiree, on the podcast. She had four C-sections and her fifth birth was a home birth with her companion Nikita. So I'm going to introduce you to Desiree and we're going to get right into it here. In 2020, Desiree graduated with honors from the nursing program and was a mother of four boys. She finished her consolidation placement right as they shut everything down in March of 2020. In June, she became registered with the CNO and by November, she got hired on as a float pool nurse at the hospitals near her. Things were insane and overwhelming for a new nurse with lack of staff, all the ridiculous quarantines and asymptomatic positives, and of course, not having patient families allowed just the craziness of that time. She kept getting her patient loads on floors and she was to be doing orientations on all the masking and all of the things. It was just not aligned. She was struggling with her mental health and ended up taking a couple leave of absences. And on the second one in April of 2021, she went to her first rally with her mom who told her about a nurse that was speaking out. That's where she met Kristen Nagel. And she was so thankful to have met her and finally not felt alone in questioning everything that was going down. It was such a blessing. Next thing Desiree knew, she was asked to speak at a couple of local rallies by some new friends and speak on what she was seeing at the hospitals and adverse reactions. So she did. Suddenly, she was getting calls from work about a disciplinary hearing and not allowed to return. Long story short, she ended up quitting over being fired, which was the end game. And, you know, had been reported for speaking against the mandate and adverse reactions. So July of 2021, she resigned from the hospital. She's worked some odd jobs over the last couple of years, cleaning houses, working at a sprinkle factory, trying to network marketing companies, one of which she still loves to have her share about. And she's been trying to find her passion. She's currently in school for natural nutrition with the Canadian School of Natural Nutrition. And she likes to take some herbalist courses as well. She loves alternative natural healing methods. And she started her and she started a holistic wellness business as well. In October of 2023, she was homeschooling her four children and it was busy. And, yeah, that it was a big kind of turning point for you. You learned about the world. You wanted to protect your children from the nonsense that was going on the school systems. You wanted to empower other families with the knowledge. And this all led her to remain out of the system, to have a natural, perfect physiological home birth with her baby girl after having four previous C-sections and thinking the doctors must know better than her. Wow. Welcome, Desiree. Thank you. What a quick journey for you. You indoctrinated and then out. That was fast. It was. Yeah, I had I was a PSW before. So I do have like a long history of being in health care. But yeah, I did go back for nursing and yeah, that was a really quick journey. It was an effort. And I guess my first question is, what was ultimately when you got pregnant with your fifth, your daughter, your fifth baby, what was it that was just like, there is absolutely no way that I will give my power over to this system again? Was it kind of all the things you had experienced while working in the system or like? And it was the fact that I've seen so many people posting pictures of their hospital births over the last few years and just like meeting their child wearing a mask, you know, especially back in twenty twenty when people weren't allowed to have their spouse until like the last leg of labor. And there was just absolutely no way that I was going to do that. Not to mention. I, under no circumstances, was ready to have another surgery and I knew that there wasn't going to be somebody that was aligned with my beliefs and just going to allow me to have the birth that I wanted. And I knew that I wanted a natural birth this time. I wanted that previously. It just, you know, I wasn't allowed to. So this time I reached out to Kristen and I was like, hey, do you know anyone that's going to allow me to have this natural birth? And she goes, allow you. She's like, just just do it. What have you thought about a home birth? I was like, I'm allowed to do that. Like it was a lot of unlearning, really. Like I it's my own body and I was pretty much looking elsewhere and asking permission to do what I wanted to do. Right? Yeah. When you were a nurse, you're a PSW. I mean, that would be that's the training of that system. And just like your children in school, you saw that as well, which is probably why you pulled them and you homeschooled them. You were questioning all those systems. That's a lot to take in your heart while you're mothering four boys, you're moving careers, and now you're pregnant. What a powerhouse you are. Talk about an unravelling all at once. Yes, yes. It's been a crazy year. Yeah. How did that feel in your body? Like just how did it feel in your body when Kristen's like, what do you mean allowed? That's it. It was like this weight just lifted off of me. And I don't know, I just all of a sudden had this overwhelming confidence. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to have a home birth. Like it's going to I don't know, like it must have been just God just like letting me know that this was this was OK. And this is this is going to be OK. But it's going to go the way I envision. And it was a lot of faith. But I just I really, truly had this overwhelming confidence this time. And I was like, I know that this is my body was made to do this. And I know that it's been through some trauma. But yeah, I just I just had this overwhelming confidence that it was going to as long as I just let it go the way it's supposed to and let it, you know, happen naturally. And so it did. I didn't have all the tests. I didn't have all the timelines. I didn't have anybody else's, you know, timeline to follow really like when you're in the medical system. So it was a beautiful pregnancy. And I can't believe how quickly it went by. Just not having all these extra things to worry about. Right. So. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm assuming your first birth must have been hijacked a bit if the consecutive pregnancies ended or were scheduled C-sections. So my first was an induction. So I had slightly high blood pressure and I was told, oh, we need to get you in for an induction. Can I ask what your blood pressure reading was? Honestly, I don't remember. It was almost 14 years ago. But I do know that it was only slightly elevated. I remember looking at the paperwork after and it was it was honestly, it was just slightly elevated and it was right before I was 40 weeks. So I think it was just an excuse to be like, OK, you know what? Like this is going to probably go overdue. Let's just get you in and get things started. And my body wasn't having any of it. I was not progressing whatsoever because my body wasn't ready. So it was really, really rushed. She broke my waters without even telling me. All of a sudden I felt a huge gush and I was like, whoa, what just happened? Oh, we broke your waters. So it was very rushed. It was it was just not a pleasant experience. I was a young mother, too. I was only 20. So I feel like the doctor took advantage of that and acted as though I don't know what's going on. So I'm just she was just going to do whatever she wanted to do. And so, yeah, it was very rushed. And next thing I'm being told that the baby's heart rate's dropping, which now I know is because of the pitocin. And so they brought me into the C-section and this was all in less than 24 hours. But they did send me home with that Cervadel, the gel on your cervix and stuff like that. So, yeah, it was it was very, very rushed. And then, of course, they tell you once you've had a C-section, you're pretty much always going to have a C-section. And so with my second I had I was going to try for a VBAC. I did tell my doctor that she was not overly supportive of it, but she was going to allow it. And then at the end of the pregnancy, I had really horrible sciatic nerve pain and I didn't know a lot about that and I didn't know how to relieve it or the things that I could do to help myself. So I went in crying to my doctor at 38 weeks pregnant. And of course, she said, well, let's go in for the C-section. And so I caved and I said, sure, let's do it. I could hardly even walk to the bathroom. Yeah. So that was the second one. My third one, I did actually go into labor and I feel like my labor with him was going to be a lot similar to the way it was with my daughter. I was in labor for three days with her. I had prodromal labor. It was very sporadic. It was never, ever consistent right up to the point that I actually gave birth to her. My contractions were never, ever on a very specific timeline. Even when they started, they would be anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes. And then right before I had her, they were anywhere from like a minute to two minutes apart. It was very sporadic the whole time. So I think that was how things were going to go. But with him, I went right to the hospital, like I was told to. They said, as soon as you go into labor, come in. So I did. And so I was strapped to the monitors. I wasn't allowed to walk around. I wasn't allowed to do anything that felt natural for my body to help labor progress. And I was not allowed to eat. So I was starving. I was in there for 30 hours. I hadn't eaten since the day before. And then, of course, I'm in labor. So I'm exhausted as well. I'm going through... So they didn't take you into the OR? No. You were laboring. You're good. You're going for the VBAC at the hospital. Yes, with my third. Yes. So I'm laying in bed. And that's all I'm allowed to do. After 30 hours, they tell me that I'm still only about like a three, I believe. I think I was three centimeters. And he said, you can either keep laboring or we can take you in for a C-section. And at this point, I wasn't, like I said, I had to have the monitor strapped to my belly to monitor baby's heartbeat. So I wasn't allowed to stand up or walk or squat or do anything that would help, right? Yeah, that your body wanted to do. I was so hungry. And I felt so defeated. So I was like, okay, just take me in. So it was three in the morning and they brought me in for the C-section. And at that point, I felt super defeated. I was like, okay, so my body just doesn't know how to give birth, right? I was in labor for 30 hours. I was only at a three. So what's going on? What's wrong with me is how I felt. So when I was pregnant with my fourth, I went in to see my OB and she immediately said, please tell me you're not going to try for another VBAC. And I said, no, just schedule the C-section. So he was actually the first one that was scheduled right off the bat. So as soon as I went to see my OB, she scheduled that C-section for 38 plus four days. So he was scheduled right from the beginning. And actually three weeks postpartum with him, I had a blood clot in my lung. I had a pulmonary embolism that almost killed me. And of course that's attributed to a surgery, right? I had a C-section. So my son was three weeks old and I almost died from a blood clot post-surgery. So that was when I was like, okay, no more kids, no more surgeries, nothing. Yeah. Wow. When I found out I was pregnant a year, I was like, oh, okay. So I've had four previous C-sections. I refuse to have another surgery. I refuse to go into the hospital. So what do I do? And so that's why I contacted Kristen. I knew she was pregnant. I knew she was doing all of this. She was working with a companion. Yeah. And she was doing her companion education. Doing the course. Yeah, with Billy. I was loving all her posts about reclaiming birth. And so I knew that she would know what to do. So that's why I reached out to her. I didn't even really realize home birth was an option for me. I didn't realize that I was just allowed to do that. So it was really neat to learn that and to be able to take back that power and to just realize, okay, yeah, that's what I want to do. And that's what I'm going to do. So. Talk to me about the wave of intensity and emotion and the dialogue you worked through to have that home birth. I. And especially with Nikita. So you interviewed how many companions? Did you interview a doula as well with your companion or just a companion? Yeah, just the companions. And I think three or maybe four. Okay. I spoke to a couple of them. They were all truly wonderful women. It was really hard to finally pick one. But Nikita and I just really, really hit it off. We had our first conversation. We were on the phone for over an hour and we just really got into it. And I just felt like a really strong connection with her. And I was like, okay, I think this is the one. She had experienced a surgical birth that she had. I don't know Nikita's companion background, but what was it sort of or just it was just an energetic connection. You could just. It was just an energetic connection. Yeah, we just we were. They were all really wonderful and really easy to talk to. But I don't know. It was just a different connection with Nikita. And I just felt really comfortable with her. It felt like we had known each other a really long time. So it just felt right. And I know that she was previously a doula and she did do a lot of hospital births, but I don't think there was any surgical birth. I know she's had VBAC mom. Right. She's sort of gotten away from hospital births as well, for the most part. Right. She's just serving women in their homes as a companion. Because of her experience and seeing how birth is hijacked in the hospital and things like that. So she is doing a lot more home births these days as well. And it was truly wonderful. It's such a different experience having this knowledgeable woman come into my home and instead of sitting there for two minutes and asking me or just taking my blood pressure and measuring baby and then sending me on my way, we would sit and have a full conversation on how I felt and how just like what my body was going through and my nutrition and what I was eating. And it was just amazing just being as a mother, I feel like every time you're pregnant, it's always about the baby. Right. So they're always checking on the baby, which is great. But we as mothers are going through a lot too. So to have somebody sort of focusing on me too and understanding that everything I'm going through is is very much related to how I am doing. Yeah. Yes. So it was it was just truly a different experience all around. I have never, never had that before. Yeah, it was wonderful being held, you know, by a wise woman. And so what did some of your prenatal pregnancy conversations look like? So, yeah, it was like a lot of how I'm feeling and stuff like that. And she would still check on the baby. She would listen to her heartbeat and. And what would she use? She tried to use her stethoscope once I was a little bit later on. I don't think she had much success. So she would use the Doppler. OK. Again, I didn't want to do that too often. So we didn't do it every session. I think we listened only maybe maybe two, maybe three times. Yeah. And that was just, you know, for my own peace of mind, I just wanted to I could feel her moving constantly. Yeah. Isn't that funny? I know I never my babies have only used the fetus scope and they can never really get it. Like it's always my placenta I hear, but I always hear them moving. So exactly. That's just the moving. So like I knew she was good in there, but it's nice to hear it just just every now and then. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And then she would massage my legs and my feet and she would rub my back. And it was very personable, like it was very personalized. Sorry. It's just it was truly just her and me and her, you know, making sure I was doing OK. And, you know, ultimately, baby was doing OK. Yeah, absolutely. Beautiful. So was it I guess you want to tell us about the birthday, like what sort of what sort of unfolds? Is there anything else you feel like called to share that kind of happened in the prenatal to the pregnancy that felt really nourishing and great to help you, you know, with ease enter into the birthday? Did you have any apprehension? Did you feel like, well, yeah. Towards the end, I did have a little bit of self-doubt. And so it kind of came as a surprise to me. It was very emotional because up until basically 40 weeks, I was even a little past that. I was so confident. I was like, she's coming. I could picture it. I had my birth pool set up. I had my birth space ready. It was beautiful. I could literally picture it in my mind for coming out into the birthing pool and being put on my chest. And she ended up being 18 days past her estimated due date. Now, I know that that's an estimation, but 18 days. And I was like, what is going on here? Like, is she ever going to come out? And so I did get to that point where I was like, OK, is this happening again? Maybe my body really doesn't know what to do. Because especially having that dialogue a little bit in my head still from my previous birthing experiences, especially with my third, who is the only one I went into labor with. And I was in labor for 30 hours. And knowing I was only three centimeters. And so this time, I was like, OK, maybe my body doesn't know what to do. What do I do if it doesn't know what to do? Um, and I also had some doubters. I had some family members and things that didn't really understand why I was trying to have a vaginal birth after four C-sections and didn't think it was safe. And so at 42 weeks pregnant, I was like, OK, what do I do here? Like my baby, she's not coming. And I had people saying, you know, there's some there's some things that were told such as a placenta expires, right? Like that's one of the medical lies that we hear all the time is that at 42 weeks, it's dangerous and your placenta will no longer nourish your baby. And so as much as I knew that that wasn't true, and I know that women have gone up to 44 weeks pregnant and their babies have come out perfect because babies are all on different timelines. Right. But I had just that little bit of self-doubt. And so at 42 weeks pregnant, I made the decision to go to the hospital just to get an ultrasound and make sure babies looked OK in there. And I actually we drove out of the way because I didn't want to go to our local hospitals because they are really, really crazy with restrictions still. They literally will not treat you if you do not put a mask on and go in there. They will not. They will send you away. They don't care about exemptions. They don't care if you're dying. They will send you away if you are not wearing a mask. And you are in Whitby, Ontario, Oshawa, Ontario. Yeah. So there's a few different the Lakeridge, the Lakeridge hospitals are around and they're they're all like that. So we drove out of the way. We went to Markham Stouffville. This has always been a better hospital. And I knew that they weren't as aggressive with all their restrictions and stuff. So we did go there. Did you talk about this with Nikita? Did you have a prenatal? I did. Hey, like this is on my heart. And was this something that you guys kind of not troubleshooted, but sort of like suggested? And, you know, we're curious and thought, OK, this is something I'm going to access. Did talk to Nikita about it. And so that's another wonderful thing with Companions, is that she was available for me anytime I could text her, I could call her, I could speak to her anytime. So I was messaging her and she she did encourage me to do what I felt was best. And to listen to what your heart was saying, what your instincts are telling you. But if basically if I was that anxious about it, then my body wasn't going to relax enough to go into labor, basically. Right. So that's the funniest part. So I did decide to do that. I felt like I needed to do it for my own peace of mind. So at 42 weeks, I went into the hospital. We saw a baby girl. She was beautiful. Everything looked perfect in there. And the doctor that came in, she was horrified when she found out that I was having a home birth because she couldn't understand. She's like, you're 42 weeks pregnant. That's, you know, crazy in the medical world. They don't let people go past 42 weeks. So she had told me that her recommendation was that they take me into the OR right away and have a C-section. Because if I go through with this home birth, there is a high chance that baby and myself will both die during labor. And I told her that I had done my research. I know that that is absolutely not true. That if anything does happen to go wrong, I have no problem seeking medical attention when it's needed. But until it was needed, I had absolutely no intention of having my baby in the hospital. And reminded that doctor of your third, was it your third C-section or your fourth, which you almost died after having a C-section. Yeah. Pulmonary embolism in your lung, which I guess they bypassed that in the records. Yes. Yeah. Well, it was really funny because she goes, oh, so you had a home birth before? And I said, no. And she goes, C-sections? And I said, yep. She goes, all of them? And I said, yep. And just her eyes went so big, she could not fathom. And she's a woman? Yes. She's a woman. Wow. Wow. Poor woman. I know. I said to her, so my baby looks okay. She looks good on the ultrasound. She said she looks perfect. And so I said, okay, well, thank you. That's all I wanted to know. And we're going to be on our way. And so we left. And the very next day is when I went into labor. Really? So you had to return to the place that held a lot of pieces of your prior births. And you needed to just check in and utilize the tool and go home and let your body settle into what this new timeline was going to be for your daughter. And how did it start? So it was actually my husband and I, it was our anniversary. So we went out. Oh, that's so special. So we were going out for dinner. We were actually going to have Indian food because I was doing all the things that you could possibly naturally do, like eating spicy food and just those silly little things that if your body's ready might help you go into labor, right? Right. Making love and eating spicy food. Exactly. Yes, those wonderful things. So at 42 weeks just passed, 42 weeks and one day, we were getting ready to go for our anniversary dinner. And I had a contraction. And I was like, oh, that felt different. I think that might have been real. So I looked at the time, it was about two o'clock. And then 20 minutes later, I had another one. And then they kept coming pretty regularly between 18 and 20 minutes apart. So we went out for our dinner. And I still kept looking at the time every time one would happen. And it wasn't it wasn't uncomfortable or anything. It was, you know, those early ones. And I was like, okay, this is pretty consistent, even though they're really far apart. So I think this is the start of something. So that night, they got more intense, like quite intense throughout the night. So the next morning, I texted, that's when I texted Nikita. And I told her they started the day before. I was having these contractions. They haven't gone away. I've had them all night. They got more intense throughout the night. And I think something's going on. So she said, okay, we'll keep you updated throughout the day. And she said that she was going to make sure she was available for me. And they sort of started spacing out again. So throughout the night, they were about eight to 10 minutes apart. And now we're on the second day here. And they sort of spread back out again to like 15 minutes or so. Like they were still not consistent. And so I was like, okay, what's going on now? So I looked up prodromal labor, I'd heard about it. And so that's what was going on. And Nikita said it too. She goes, okay, they spaced out a bit. I think you're having prodromal labor. Which would make sense based on the fact you've had to process for births, for surgical births. You know, emotionally, that's a lot to hold in your body, I would think. And then and what was the conversation like with Nikita after you got the perfect, okay, ultrasound? It was good. She was like, okay, like, how do you feel now? And it was honestly like a weight was lifted off my shoulders because I hadn't had all the tests and all the things throughout the pregnancy. I had ultrasounds and stuff. So as much as I was confident, I also had just that little smidgen of self-doubt. Is everything actually okay? Right. Because yeah, your body technically in medical terms has not progressed. It hasn't allowed itself to progress. And bring your baby vaginally. So that's such a normal emotional response. Yeah, we're so used to having all these tests and being able to see our baby and know that things are okay beforehand, as opposed to having the faith that things are okay, and our body's doing what it's supposed to. And the internal knowing. Yeah. And then seeing that in the end, right? But so for me, as much as I was trying to be confident throughout, and I mostly was, I did have that little bit of doubt. A little bit of doubt crept in. I needed that, just that final confirmation that she was okay before my body was really able to relax. So you're in the second day now and it's spread apart and you're kind of working through the emotions of things. So my husband and I went for walks and I was at home. So I was able to eat a little bit here and there. I was having bone broth and I wasn't really hungry, but I was able to nourish myself a little bit, right? And so the prodromal labor would get really intense at night. And so it kept tricking me and thinking, okay, maybe this is it. So Thursday night now, this is going into the second night of labor. And they were really intense again, even closer together. And then again, the next morning they spaced out a little bit more, but never once throughout any of this did it go away. So I was trying, I even tried to shower and have that hot water just to see if they would stop because I thought, okay, maybe it's not really labor. I started to convince myself, maybe it wasn't right. And then finally on the third night, it was two in the morning and I woke up and I had a really intense contraction. And so that's the funny thing is I was having just these little catnaps in between because by this second and third day, the contractions were getting quite uncomfortable. They were still like eight to 10 minutes apart. So I was nodding off in that time, but waking up every time I had a contraction. So this third night, it's the morning she ended up being born. So Saturday night, and it's two in the morning. I woke up, had a really intense contraction and then I threw up. And so I was like, okay, this is different. I think this might be my transitional phase. I think I'm going into finally going into active labor here. And so things did start getting really intense. So I ended up going up for a shower and that helped a little bit. And I was still puking. I was throwing up almost every time I had a contraction. It was really intense. So I went, after my shower, I went back downstairs. I sat up in bed and every time I would have a contraction, I'd hold onto the headboard and my husband was sleeping. I was trying not to bother him too much. And then I was texting Nikita and telling her that I was throwing up now. I think things are changing. And she said to keep her updated. And so I did. She goes, let me know when you're filling up the pool. And so my husband started setting that up around, I think it was about 930 or so he started filling up the pool. And so this whole time I was just trying to labor as quietly as I could. It wasn't, it was really just, I was breathing through them. And I still honestly, because I've been in labor for so long, I thought that it was going to go a lot longer now that I was in active labor. I'm like, okay, so now like maybe she'll be born by this evening or so. So around 1030 that morning, I got into the pool, the birthing pool and things, it was, it was so much of a relief. It was, it was beautiful getting into that pool. The warm water felt amazing on my body. And, but things did really, really intensify. So at that point, I couldn't text Nikita anymore. So my husband called her and I was speaking to her in between contractions. She goes, okay, like they're, they're quite close together. It sounds like things are really getting going here. So I'm going to be on my way. She said she'd be here in about a half hour. So just past 11 now. And I started, I think it was about quarter after 11, I started feeling that like, like I needed to bear down. And every time I was having a contraction, I was like, feeling this uncontrollable urge to push. I was like, what is happening? It's too soon. There's no way. So my husband's on the phone with Nikita and he is telling her she feels like she needs to push. And suddenly I could feel her head. I could feel all her hair. And I was like, oh my gosh, her head's there. She's actually coming out. So I held her in there because I didn't feel like it was time to push her out yet. So I sort of held her in there and the water definitely helps me be able to do that. And next thing I know I push and out she comes. And Nikita's still on the phone with Brian. She's on the highway. She's on her way here. And yeah, baby girl, she just came flying out. My husband picked her up. She had the cord wrapped around her neck twice. So I took her. I gently unraveled it. I put her on my chest and she was so bright eyed and she just looked so peaceful. She made a couple of little noises, didn't really cry. Her color looked beautiful. I rubbed her back. Towel was put on us. Nikita suggested to my husband to grab some dates so I could eat some dates and just sort of nourish my body a little bit before I get up and do anything. And so we did. And then, yeah, we got into the birthing pool and we went and laid on my bed and she was attached to the cord for about an hour. Nikita got here about a half hour after her birth. Yeah. And she was, there was two of them. So she did have a second person come with her. Okay. And they were like giving me bleeding pictures and they cleaned everything up. They put the pool away. So she brought, so she brought a kind of an assistant or maybe another companion that was kind of training with her. He had asked if I was okay, if instead of a second birth companion coming, if a student could come. So this is a, this woman was taking, she's taking Billy's course. So she needs so many hours attending birth. And as, you know, a previous nurse myself, of course I had to do my own placements and get my own learning experience. So I was totally okay with that. Absolutely. And the one thing I wanted to point out was how smart birth is, because I do know that if the cord is, you know, particularly short or, you know, has decided to make different movements around baby, that it's very smart in terms of how it spaces out the contractions while baby makes its descent. I'm wondering if just the smartness of the physiological birth of things, just kind of spacing themselves out while she got, you know, things were feeling great. And then she could make that descent even based on the positioning of the cord. Yeah. And I also know, I don't know if that feels true for you. That could just totally be, I don't know. You hear all types of amazing things. You do. And I, and I know it's so common for the cord to be wrapped around and constantly doing flips and things in there. Right. But again, we know that babies aren't breathing through their lungs when they're inside, they're breathing through, they're getting their oxygen through the placenta. Right. So when they're coming out and they're still attached to the placenta, they're still getting that oxygen. Right. Yeah. Especially while her coming out into the water and stuff. Right. So I at no point was concerned that she had the cord wrapped around her neck. I knew that she was getting all the oxygen she needed, especially while she was still attached to that cord that was still inside. The placenta was still attached to me. Right. And that's just, that's the story. What I meant too is that so that there isn't sort of that heaviness sometimes on the placenta to detach too early as well. Right. So sort of that slower descent or spacing out so that the placenta can, you know, stay attached and provide that placental circulation while still attached to the urine wall and baby can make their descent so smartly. Yeah. So the cord wrapped around the neck is such a big one that people are sort of duped into thinking that their baby was saved with a C section. Exactly. It's not, you know, it's just such misunderstanding of the physiology of a baby and its descent. It is. And so the thing is, is that most people do understand that that's how a baby is getting its oxygen when they're inside, but they, there seems to be a disconnect, a disconnect when a baby ends up coming out and the cord is wrapped around their neck. And so I think a lot of people, because they feel like you, like you said, that the doctor saved their baby, they, there's a disconnect in that knowledge where they know that baby isn't breathing through their lungs yet. And as long as they're attached to the cord, they're still getting that oxygen. So even as soon as, if you're having a hospital birth and a baby does come out, they're now, they're getting double oxygen. So they are starting to breathe through the lungs, but they're still getting that oxygen from the cord as well. Right? Yeah. So as long as they're attached to the cord, there is no lack of oxygen to that baby. And with my daughter, when she came out and she had it around her neck, it was very easy to unravel. And like I said, as soon as I put her on my chest, I could see her color in that. That's the telltale sign, right? If there are they, if they have lack of oxygen, and she was turning a beautiful pink color. And I, no point was concerned that there was a lack of oxygen. And I knew that she was doing very well. And so she ended up being attached to the cord for almost an hour. And I saw the cord go from that really chunky red color to like, it shriveled up and it was white because all that blood had gone into her as well, right? And that's the thing is that when they're clamping the cord and cutting it too quick, that's a whole bunch of baby's blood that they're not receiving that there. So that's another thing that ends up, you know, causing issues for these newborn babies is they're missing a whole chunk of their blood supply in the cord. And so with her, it was really neat to see because on day three, her third day of life on, you know, earth side, and her umbilical cord, her stump fell off. And I've never seen it happen that quickly. And it was, it just fell off. And she had this perfect, beautiful little belly button. And with all my other boys, it wasn't until about, you know, 10 to 14 days after that their stump fell off. So... Really? Isn't that fascinating? So that's how smart nature is. And that's why so many babies get that, get such infection if it's been clamped and cut so, so quickly or tampered with. My first son actually had a cord avulsion. He was born at home in the pool and I put him up to me and there was blood squirting everywhere and his cord had broken away from the placenta and it was perfectly fine. And Billy only carried one cord clamp. She went and grabbed another and clamped my end and clamped his end, but he was a little gray, a little white, but honestly, my husband and I, it was not a traumatic event. Like we had a companion, we got into bed and Noble was beautiful. You know, he transitioned fine. He was like a hospital birth baby, essentially. His placenta just, his placenta cords nuts, which they're quite hardy. So it's such an interesting, energetic through all of it, you know? And so just listening to your instincts and having wise women around you. I love, like you said, Nikita and, you know, her other companion sister came and just tended to your family and let you just be with your baby girl. And also I have to just say like, go girl. Like you had four C-sections and you caught your baby. Yes, it was. It was honestly, gosh, for weeks afterwards, I was like, did that really happen? Like it felt like a dream because it was, like I said, I was, I was really, really trying to envision it exactly how I wanted it to go. And that's exactly how it happened. And so I think, I also listened to a lot of hypnobirthing because I really needed to make sure I had it in my mindset that my body was meant to do this. You know, it knows what it's doing. It doesn't need anybody else's help. So yeah, I really, I listened to the podcast religiously because I just wanted to make sure that when the time came, I could recite those in my head and really encourage myself and motivate myself and know that my body is doing exactly what it needs to do. And so I felt like that was especially important because I did end up having this three-day labor. And I can tell you right now, I was definitely reminding myself over and over again. And there was a lot of praying going on and just really trying to remind myself like, okay, I know this is taking a while, but this is what I wanted. I wanted no interference. It's, you know, if I was in the hospital, it would have been, I would have been rushed, right? I would have been in, had some sort of induction technique, or they would have told me I can't keep doing this and I need to go in for a C-section. Right. And if you would have used regulated midwives, they wouldn't have attended you and escorted you to the hospital. And, or like you said, not honoring the timeframe, like I'm sure Nikita in her own place on the earth was sending you all the love and vibration and also checking in with like her knowledge and skills, but you're both connecting heart to heart and her trusting you because you're the mother. She's a wise companion and sister, you know, holding that space for you, but you are the matriarch of this experience. You are the mother here and you are guiding and journeying that. Yeah. And she reminded me of that a lot too. And just reminded me that, you know, I am strong and this is the birth I wanted. And I wanted it to be a physiological birth on my daughter's terms and for her to come when she was ready. And so for her reminding me of that too, it was like, okay, yes, like this is taking a long time, but it's, it's on her terms and, you know, she's going to come when she's ready. And so she definitely came when she, she was ready. Right. So she was 18 days past her estimated due date and then she took three days to come out. But talk about changing up her birth lineage, like as a woman who will, you know, she chooses to have children one day too. Yeah. My kids were here too. Right. So it was, it was just beautiful for them at when their sister was moments old, they were able to come and meet her. So they were all, I had my daughter in the basement. That's where we had like our birth school set up. I had like lights up. It was just, it was really, really nice. And my boys were all in the living room and they could hear things going on. And so before I was actually even out of the birthing pool, they all came down and they got to meet her. So it was really neat. Just, you know, she wasn't here. And then all of a sudden she was just, just how quickly it ended up happening that morning when she finally did arrive. Because like I said, I think I was in denial because of how long it was taking. So that morning when I realized I was in active labor, I thought it was going to go on all day. And she was born at 1138. So an hour and a half after you had thought like after you had thrown up that first time, right? Cause it was around like 9 30 AM. That's when my husband started filling up the pool. Oh, okay. It was, it was two in the morning when I first started throwing up. So it was throughout that time that things got really, really intense and really close together. And so I still though, like, so from two in the morning, I was like, Oh gosh, this is going to be going on all day now. Like now I'm in active labor and she's gonna, I just had the shot. No, seven hours, seven hours later, yeah. For some people that's their entire birth, right? Yes. But you know what? I don't know if this happened, but I'm sure emotionally you had to likely enter some spaces of your prior birth, I would think. Really some of those pieces from your body. Absolutely. Yeah. And to normalize that for women from experiences of doula supporting women that, that are doing a VBAC, there is a lot of emotions that come up as your body sort of kicks into preparation because it's an unknown for, for a lot of women. Yes. And it was definitely unknown for me. And then of course I did, I had a lot of birth trauma to work through. And again, even just me going to the hospital at 42 weeks and then going into labor the next day, that was just another sort of clue for me that I, I did need a little bit of confirmation for my body to relax enough for labor to start. And you know what? Good, good on that hospital for honoring you. Cause some of them have such an ego trip. Like, you know, you hear stories where they call children's services or they- And I was worried about that. I was prepared. I was prepared for that because I did know that that was something that could happen. A friend of mine did have a birth companion as well. And she was attempting a home birth. It didn't go the way she had wanted. And she did end up getting transferred to the hospital. She did end up still having a vaginal birth with no interventions, but they did call children's aid on her because she did refuse the vitamin K shot and for their testing afterwards, they do the heel prick and all those things. And she didn't want any of that. So they did call children's aid on her. The case was closed within 12 hours. They could of course see that she'd done her homework. She knew what she was doing. She had every right to decline those tests and the vitamin K shot. But I did know that just by stepping into the medical system that I was risking that. And it is one of the reasons I did go outside of Durham though, is because I knew that the hospitals around me are way worse. And I think if I went to one of these local hospitals- They would have pulled that ego trip. Whereas you were smart in terms of who you wanted to get into bed with in that scenario. And you're like, okay, there's a little less ego maybe where I'm headed and some more patient advocacy care. And so I'm glad that they honored you with that. They gave you that information you required and you could take that with you after all the hard work you had already done though. You were 42 weeks, you worked through so much and your body could then just settle in to catching your baby girl. Wow. And so what was recovery like? And also, isn't it such a crazy portal to enter when your baby comes through and that bearing down? It's so primal. I think it's the most... Childbirth is so smart. So you get to that moment and you're like, oh yeah, I could have another 12 babies. And now I can't even wrap my head around how in the hospital and you hear about women who are being coached to push for hours when it really is, it's truly such an uncontrollable, primal feeling. When you surrendered, which it sounds like you surrendered. And when the time comes and it was time to push, there wasn't anything I could do to stop it. And so not having any cervical checks or anything like that, it was completely just relying on my body to tell me this. So for some women, they can go from three to 10 and pushing in no time at all. And so one thing for me was just not having that thought in my head. So when I was with my third and I was in labor and they were telling me I was only three centimeters, I feel like that gets into your head and you're like, oh, I'm only three centimeters. This is never going to happen, right? I didn't have that to worry about. So for all we know, I very well could have birthed him like within the next hour or so. I could have. And that's just it, right? So with my daughter, I could have very well been only at like three centimeters that morning and just, you know, super quickly she was, you know, coming out. All of a sudden it was time and I opened up. So we just don't know. And I realized more than ever that cervical exams are beyond unnecessary and they give you absolutely no information as to when a baby is going to come. And it's just this intrusive, unnecessary thing that doctors and midwives even have gotten into the hang of. And it's just a power trip to tell you again where your body's at. And it's such a violation. And it's such a violation. And also, you have to also know that the variance of finger sizes are quite different. And all they do is spread them apart. They make a V and that's how they're determining how far they can spread it apart. But I mean, like your fingers could be different sizes than my fingers. And when you spread them apart inside something, we could be measuring very differently. Absolutely. It's so not even science. And none of it is science. A man definitely created that technique. Absolutely he did. Oh my goodness. You have no clue what portal you just entered. Get out. And then based on that, they decide what interventions they need. That's right. And test data to control. Yeah. You don't need to do anything but let your body just do what it's meant to do. Right. It knows. It knows. And your baby knows. And yes, it was truly just such a learning experience this time. I learned so, so much. And I learned to trust my body and know that we are perfectly made. And yeah, it all works the way it's supposed to, right? In its own time, baby's time and our body's time. Yeah. Wow, Desiree, you are so powerful. I'm so grateful that you've come on to share this beautiful story. Like, talk about a reclamation and all the inner work you did to get there. And you know, to have a woman like Nikita and companions in our community, we're both in Ontario, Canada, but to have these women walking this path with women is so vitally important because there's not an indoctrination of regulation. It's women and sisters holding one another up in this journey so that you can, you know, meet yourself. And in some instances, we're not ready to. You know, when you talked about your girlfriend and she did have a companion, there's a different journey there sometimes that we have to take. And everyone is different. Birth brings out different parts of ourselves that sometimes need tending to and it's hard. But, you know, the more care and less trauma we can, you know, impart on families, the better. Absolutely. Yeah. Is there anything else? Oh, yeah. So what was healing? Yeah. What did healing feel like? So it was wildly different. Of course, I'm used to not being able to walk for a little while and you've got a catheter in and so you have to kind of sit around until you can feel your legs again and then, you know, slowly dangle at the bedside and then it's 24 hours before you can have a shower. So this time, I mean, within a couple hours, I was going upstairs to my own shower and just feeling so, you know, refreshed. And then going back downstairs to lay in my own bed that my birth companions, they had changed the bed sheets and made it all nice and fresh and cleaned up the birth pool and were doing the dishes. And it was it was amazing. So I came back downstairs and like baby girl had, of course, her brothers, but also her dad and she had the birth companions here to look after her while I had a quick shower. And then, yeah, just being able to just rest and recover in my own bed, just snuggled up with my baby. I didn't have to go anywhere. I didn't have to leave the house. And it was beyond different being able to be up and independent and stuff right away. I was I was not used to it. Definitely different recovery wise. I wasn't, of course, used to all the swelling and the soreness. It's funny because I actually didn't even feel that for the first couple of days. I was like, oh, wow, this is great. Like, I'm not even in pain. And then like the swelling and. Oh, did you have a little bit? OK. I did. So I was my birth attendant, my birth companion. She was telling me to use seaweed. And so I was looking into this and I was like, wow. Oh, the Nori paper. Yeah. Works wonders. So I started doing that. I started putting the seaweed on my pad and it helped so much. It was over relieving. So did you have the internal just little little hair sort of. Yeah. She said it was very superficial tearing. She said it's nothing like too crazy. So I did end up healing quite quickly. But yeah, after when I was about two, three days postpartum is when that sort of swelling and soreness really settled in. But once I started using the seaweed and I was sitting on ice packs and stuff like that, I did heal very quickly and I just felt so much better this time. Like it was just wild. Even just how quickly my daughter started nursing. It was just such a different connection just right off the bat. Right. Just a primal imprint is so required. And you've done it before. You have four beautiful boys that you mother with all your heart. And actually with with my boys in the C-sections, my fourth baby was the only one that they immediately put him on my chest. So the other ones, they didn't do that, which it's just starting to become a thing that they do here in Ontario anyway. It hasn't really been something that they've always done. But with my fourth, I was learning that they're trying to do these more like gently centered. Yeah. Yeah. And so I did ask about that and she said, as long as everything looks OK, we can do that. So he my fourth baby, my fourth son is that he's the first one that right there in the OR after they had pulled him out, they put him right on my chest. And I feel like that is just beyond important because baby needs to smell you. You need to smell baby. That gets those hormones going. It gets the milk, you know, starting and starting to come in and stuff. And so just not having that with my other boys, I feel like that was definitely something that took a bit of a toll on us right off the bat with my first son. I didn't even meet him till he was 45 minutes old and I was in recovery. I didn't even see him. They didn't even say, gosh. So it was nice being able to have that with my fourth baby. But of course, it's just it's nothing compared to birthing your own baby and being able to grab them right out of the water and putting her right on my chest and stuff. It was just it was amazing. It sounds like, you know, your body in terms of after all those surgical births did what it needed to do in order for your body to move through those powerful contractions and rushes. And, you know, I do know some women, there can be a lot of releasing of blood prior to, you know, it's just almost like this energetic, but also the body sometimes releasing any sort of buildup or scar tissue sometimes along those parts. And then baby comes after. I mean, there's so many variations because everyone's body holds those surgical births so differently. But. Yeah, they definitely my body had a lot of releasing to do for sure before this happened. So, yeah, it ended up, you know, my body did actually know what to do. I had that little bit of self doubt. It did, in fact, know what to do. And it did it perfectly. And my daughter, you know, did her part perfectly. And I have this beautiful home birth. And I don't know if more kids are in our future, but if they are, I absolutely look forward to another home birth experience just like that one. And I know now that my body knows what to do. And I trust it more than ever. So what a powerful mommy you are. So I'm definitely going to put how how others can contact you because you're such a wise mother, you have five children, and I'm sure you're using. And now you had said, is there any sort of business sort of piece that you wanted to drop in here or ways people can work with you if you have some offerings right now? I am on Instagram. I have, I do have my business page. It's Desiree Muse. I'll put that in the show notes. Okay. And then yeah, I'm on Facebook, Desiree Muse. I do post a lot of public content as it relates to birth and other things. I am back in school, as you mentioned at the beginning for natural nutrition. So I will be working on a natural wellness business. And lots of different certifications and things that I have planned. Currently, I sell a tower garden. And yeah, what are those? It's a hydroponic. So it's a tower that you can do indoors or outdoors with grow lights. Okay. Your own, grow your own garden upright. So cool. Yeah, it's pretty amazing being able to just grow your own food in your house, even if you don't have the space to do it outside and stuff. So yeah. Yeah, that's wonderful. I can't wait. I'll put all your information in the show notes for those interested. And thank you, Desiree, for coming on today. Thank you for inviting me. It was so nice talking to you. It was so wonderful to share this reclamation and just, oh, wow. The strength that you possess and that you carry inside of yourself, your coding to move through for various surgical births and to catch your daughter in this fifth birth is really truly a reclamation for women. And I'm so excited for those that needed this story medicine to hear it. And I'll be posting your companion Nikita's Instagram handle in the show notes. And I'm just so grateful to have you brave women come on this companion series. It's so awesome. Thank you. Thank you for doing this. Thank you. Thank you, everybody, for being here. We'll see you on the next episode. I have some companions coming on to share their journeys of how they've transitioned into walking with women in this way and so many other powerful birth stories. So I look forward to touching you on the next episode. Thank you, everybody.