episode 20 season 2-compassion vs enabling

The hosts discuss the difference between enabling and compassion, and how over-pacifying can create a sense of helplessness. They reflect on their own experiences as parents and the consequences of overdoing things for their children. They touch on the importance of taking responsibility for one's actions and the consequences of repetitive mistakes. They also discuss the need for truth and the dangers of manipulation. What it do? Welcome to word of mouth podcast with Nate and Shelby. We are back in the building. What it do? It do. Yes, it does. It be doing. Yes, it does. It will do and it will continue to do whatever it do. Whatever God wants it to do. Whatever it do. Amen. Hey, so good to see you, Shelby. How you doing? Great. How are you? Man, I'm good. I'm good. It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood. Yes. Hey, Shelby. What? What? Good, man. I'm good. Is the air conditioning running? Amen. Thank you, God. Listen, today, let's just dig into a few things today. I was talking to Shelby off mic about just a couple of things. One being the difference between enabling and compassion. I know that's a big issue. Also, we touched on this last podcast about the living and existing. I think that would be something that we'll touch on today. Let's jump right into it. Jump. Let's jump. Head first. All right. Of course, I got a question for you, Shelby. Of course, you do. Yes. It would be different if I didn't ask you a question. One day, I'm going to do it to you. Yes, I believe it. My question to you, have you ever been in a place where you wanted to be consoled and you didn't receive compassion? You received tough love? Oh, I'm sure as a teenager, I did. What did you do? Or do you remember? I don't really remember, but I know. Back in the day, we weren't allowed to sit in our pity parties. Boom. We didn't have that option. Kind of dropping the mic. It was you cry, I give you something to cry about. Yes. Yes. Yes. I see you sitting over there feeling bad for yourself. I'll give you something to feel bad about. Yes. Yes. That's back in the day. I promise you. We're telling our agents the real. Yes. I mean, I'm sure there was times that I wanted compassion, but I wasn't going to get it. Come on. No. Come on. Has time changed? Yes. I just had this conversation with a significant person in my life the other day about, okay, we were Gen X. We basically raised ourselves. We had to figure shit out on our own, for the most part. I think because of that, and we were discussing this, that we have catered so much to our kids because we didn't want them to live that existence, that we have turned them into this helpless bunch of crybaby. Wow. You said, turn them into it. Yeah, because we enabled, we were way too kind wanting to love them the way we weren't. We didn't feel loved. I think we were all loved, but the way we didn't feel loved, and so we overdid it, and now we've got what we've got. I don't think my kids are necessarily that way. I don't know that yours are. There's certain people I know that I don't think their kids fit in that category, but I think as a whole, the generation, yeah, I think that we overdid with our kids trying to undo what we felt when we were growing up, and now we have jacked ourselves up all the way around. Wow. That is so true. As I think about it, because we did have to do a lot of raising of ourselves, especially as we're Gen X, right? Yeah. I don't too much remember as a kid a lot of the consoling. My mom is a nurturer by nature. She definitely was nurturing, but I don't remember a lot of consoling. No, I don't either. By anyone, whether it was a mom, a uncle, a cousin, like it was just, okay, get up and try it again. Well, yeah, you just powered through. You didn't talk about stuff. We didn't share our feelings. We didn't walk around going, oh, I don't feel like I'm loved. I don't, you know. Wow. No one's giving me a participation trophy, and that's so important. You ran a race to win, and if you lost, you sucked it up and you went again. Facts. I can't argue with that. You felt like crap that you lost, but that's the way it worked. Get up and either do it again. Work harder. Work harder, suck it up, all of the above, and that was our childhood slash teenagehood slash young adulthood today. Yeah. I get what you're saying. You said something that was really good, and I'm going to go ahead and say I was one of those parents. I didn't want my children to feel what I felt when I did want the consoling, so I think I overdid it. You want the consoling? Yes, I did. Yeah. I overdid it with them, and now, pointing the finger at myself, I created that. Well, I think we all, I mean, like with my kids, I know that we had extenuating circumstances and our family life was not great because there was some abuse going on, not physical, but substance abuse going on, and so I wanted to compensate for their discomfort, so I did everything. My God. They didn't have to do laundry. They didn't have to clean their rooms. They didn't have to because I felt guilty that they were having to deal with what they had to deal with, and so I wanted to make life so cushy for them. And now, I mean, they do do laundry, and they do all these things, and they're grown for the most part, but yeah, I... Enabled it. Yeah. I'm sure a lot of parents would agree. Thinking I was showing love, thinking I was... That's the part. Right. That's the part. I felt like this is the way I can love them. They don't have to do all of what I had to do, what I had to do. They don't have to do it, and so that's my way of showing them that I care. Right. Now that they are adults, it's a sense of... A little touchy. Yes, it is, because that's not a way of showing... To me, it's not a way of showing love, not just on that level. I mean, I'm going to do things for you. I'm going to be there for you no matter what, but I don't have to continue to walk with you through it. Right. Animals, and animals do it all the time when they're young, get... They push them out the nest. That part. You better fly. You better fly because that ground hurts. Right. I think that's what we probably need to do, or at least train it, or at least say to them, this is how we had to do it. I mean, I see a lot of social media talking about it, but are we putting it in action? Because there is another generation behind the generation that's after our children that it's different. All I'm going to say, it's different. Well, I think that everything is cyclical, and I think that things will turn back around, and I'm very blessed. I'm very blessed. My kids are really great people in spite of me, so I'm really fortunate. But yeah, I will be honest and say when they sleep all freaking day and I come home and it hasn't been done, oh, they don't like me very much. Yes. They don't like me. I get it. I get it. But it's my own fault because I allowed it to go on when they were younger, and so they just think it's okay. That's why I think this conversation needs to take place, and we're using our children for an example, but we look at society today. I think there need to be times where we do really have to suck it up. Yes. I'm not going to pacify you for something that you did. Right. That part's so hard. And everyday life happens. There are things you have to do to be a human. Period. And we all got to work. I don't know how you pay the bills if you don't work. Now, I'm against handouts, and I understand there are some situations that people need assistance. Yes. But you have got to participate in the world. You have to participate in life. You don't get a participation trophy for not showing up to work. And things don't happen overnight either. No. And I don't want to pay your damn bills. That part. That part. If you're in dire need, yes, I'll bend over backwards and help you with whatever I can. But, yeah, if you are completely able and capable, then you need to get up and go do. I agree. Yeah. This is, man, this is edgy. And the reason why it's edgy, because there are some people that may want to question some of the things that we've just said already. Oh, I'm sure. I'm not into the pacifying. And I'm going to say it as plain as I can say it on mic, especially when it comes to men. And I guess I say that because I was that. I was that guy that pacifying would have been great for me growing up. But I didn't get it. And if there's an able person, even when I'm talking to my sons, if you're able to do it, do it. Right. There's not an excuse to not. Just because you don't want to. Do any of us want to? I mean, wouldn't we all like to sit on our butts and not do a dingle dang thing? We would love to. That's not how life works. It doesn't come to you. Even a saved life. Right. Faith without the works behind it. It's dead. There's some works that you have to put in. Right. Yeah. The word doesn't say life's going to be easy and it's not fair. Never once said that. No. That's why this conversation. I want to touch it. I want to expose a lot of things. I feel like that. Too much consoling can create a monster. Absolutely. I think that it will enable. Just like I think we've done a podcast before about conviction and that you have to like if you don't have conviction and you've grown up all your life thinking you're right all the time, then when something comes to correct you, you're like, hell no, I'm right. I'm always good. Like it's on everybody else. And that's the monster that you just talked about. That's real good. If you're never corrected. Wow. And you're just allowed to run and do. Be. Yeah. You spoke about cleaning earlier when you were talking about your children. I knew this guy growing up. I know this guy and his mom would do all the chores and do this and do that. So we at that time, we were teenagers. We had summer jobs and the summer jobs that we had was cleaning. And he didn't know how to sweep or mop because he said his mom always done it. And so the guy, the manager at the time, he was like, well, I mean, if you're not going to at least try to learn what you're doing here. And he was like, well, my mama told me. My mama. Can I have my mama come do it? Right. Can she come knock this out? And I'll get paid? Yeah. But I feel like that's what's going on right now. Yeah. And we've created it. Yep. Yep. Like they can come do this for me, but let me sit back and enjoy the ride. Yeah. That's not how this, not this life. That's not how it goes. That's not how it goes. And, you know, there's got to be like you have to have a certain amount of I know pride is not good. The word says it's a bad thing, but you have to have enough love within yourself and of yourself to want more than. Absolutely. Don't you want to grow? Don't you want to try? Don't you want to see what you're capable of? Don't you want to see what your potential is or at least give it a shot? There's a benefit behind it. The benefit is you can say, hey, I feel that that sense of I accomplished something. Right. I did this, you know, as small as just, you know, doing a garden or, you know, what you ladies do. But you feel like you've done that thing. That feels really good. Cooking a meal. That. Yeah. Cleaning a house like that. That stuff feels good. You accomplished that. But if everybody else did it for you. How can you say you did it? Well, like my daughter, she's 17. She just went out with her girlfriends. They took an hour and a half drive. They went somewhere without any adults. Wow. And she came home and she's like, it was amazing. That's so amazing. Because she's never been like they've never been out when they were away, you know, a little bit and were able to be in charge of themselves and had to manage it all. Adulting. Yeah. But she was like it was like a light bulb went on. And she's like, I really like that. Oh, my God. That's amazing, though. And the feeling of it, of knowing that they did it themselves. Yeah. My daughter experienced the same thing. She went to the bank and she had to do some stuff with her account. Now, of course, mine is connected to it. But what she had to do was for her. Right. And she told me that day, I didn't want to call you, daddy, because I wanted to do this on my own. And she called me afterwards. She said, I did this by myself. I feel like I'm an adult. Yeah. I'm productive. I accomplished something. There you go. I can do this. And that's the thing. Like once they see they can do it, then it builds the confidence to continue to try. But when we keep doing everything for them and I'm speaking because I did it. It squashes them. And then they're either helpless because they don't know what to do or they don't have the confidence to try it. That's my next question for you. What happens when those semi-adults, the 17, 18 turns into the 40, 50 year olds? Well, I hope they got their shit together by then. Good Lord. They don't. Oh, my God. No, she'll be. That's the truth, though. I mean, some of them are like, yeah. Can you do it for me, please? Can you do it for me? No. Yeah. Sometimes I'm considered the bad guy. And this is like adults. Adults. I guess when you say it twice, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like grown, grown. They should be at least. That part. So if you ask me to do something, I know you can do it. Yeah. I'm not going to do it. Because I know you can do it. Right. Now. Things that I just do off, you know, just because I want to. It's a gesture because I want to. But if I know that you can and you choose not to do it and you just want someone else to do it to me, only to me. So. That's a form of manipulation because I know that you're going to do it. So I'm just going to. Keep laying it on real thick so that you can do it. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. I'm just going to lay it on real thick so that you can do it. I know that you're going to do it. And I'm tired of that crap. I feel like we. We need to kind of call those people. Out. Because it is a form of manipulation to me. Yeah. When you act helpless. It's like the crying wolf thing, which you and I talked about. Yes. You know. Keep crying wolf. Nobody's going to pay attention to you. That part. When you really need it. That part. That part. Yeah. And like with my kids, my kids all know. I've told them from day one. Now, I don't know about the father, but I have said, I will not bail you out of jail. Like if you get in trouble. It is. Depending on what it is. But you're going to sit there for a little bit. There's consequences behind your actions. Yeah. So just know if you call me. I'll pick up the phone. But I'm going to take my time. But. I feel like that stuff is so important. It's important to teach. My children would be the same. Like. I'll be there for you. You knew. It ain't like I ain't told you. You don't pick up a drink and drive. You don't go and rob. Like these things. Common sense stuff. Right. So you want me to come to jail. You want me to come and do what. And you knew what you were doing. And we do all make mistakes. But there are learning things that we have to. We have to take responsibility for. And that's what mistakes are about is learning. Absolutely. And changing your behavior. Absolutely. Absolutely. Not repeating it. Sometimes we still repeat it, even though we're wrong. But anyway. Well, let's look at that from a spiritual standpoint. I mean, we know what sin is. We definitely know how we can commit sin. Every single second of the day. There's a thing that we don't touch on a lot. That's mentioned a lot. Throughout the book of Psalms. David knew how to mention this word in its entirety. And it's called iniquity. And iniquity is the thing that you keep doing. You said you weren't going to do it no more. The repetitive sin. That part. So Psalms 103. It says, blessed the Lord, all my soul. And forget not all of his benefits. Because he's healed my diseases. And he's forgiven my iniquities. My iniquities. That thing that I said, God, I wasn't going to. Wasn't going to do no more. But I did it again. I wasn't going to do it no more. But I did it again. Wasn't it Paul that talked about the thorn? And I keep trying not to do this thing. But I keep doing it. That's exactly what Paul said. Yeah. Yes. And that aspect of the mistakes. And even doing that thing over again. There is a time where you say, hey, you know what? I'm not going to do that no more. Well, not only that, but that doesn't mean there's not a consequence to those things. That doesn't say it's inconsequential. Right. And the consequences continue to build and get worse. Yes. If you keep continuing the same behavior and the same mistakes. Yes. That's just a natural consequence. So, yeah, it doesn't say that you're going to get away scot-free. You're not free from it. There it is. OK. Second Corinthians. It says literally, God, can you take this thorn out of my flesh? God says, no, my grace is sufficient. It didn't say the consequences are going to go away. It's just my grace. Fact is right there. Know that I will forgive you. But you're still going to deal with it. Thank you. Great point. Thank you so much. I think that's what we probably get twisted. On the repetitive mistakes that we make. The iniquities that we think that it's just going to be scot-free. And there's no consequences. There are consequences. If you keep doing that thing. Something will happen. Mm hmm. And, you know, even when you think you get away with it. Eventually it catches up. Absolutely. And then it's a pretty big whoop. Usually. Absolutely. It will. Amen. And that's, you know, it's always been my philosophy. That the truth will come to the surface regardless. So. How many times they lie to you, it doesn't really matter. Because they're going to be found out sooner or later. How many times they cheat, whatever. That behavior is going to. Rear its ugly head and you're going to see it. 100 percent. So when you do see it. You need to be paying attention. There it is. It's probably been going on for a while. Yes, indeed. We. We ask for truth. We say, hey, we want the truth. But do you really want the truth? Truth can really suck. Yes, it can. Are we really truly ready for the truth? A lot of times we're not. I can tell you because I lived it for 20 years. My God. I kept wanting and thinking and. Oh, it's going to get better. Oh, it's going to change. Oh, it's going to stop. Oh, no, didn't. And that was my own fault. And I really thought I was doing what was right. But. Can you put a fault to it, though? Would you really? Especially when there's other people involved. Like there were, you know, with the kids. Oh, OK. Yeah, I should have. Paid more attention. Well, I was paying attention. I just thought I was doing the noble thing. I was sucking it up and putting on my big girl drawers. No more. But even putting my big girl drawers on didn't change nothing. Yeah. Until I didn't suck it up anymore. And I said, nope. Here it is. He's out, Russell Sprout. There it is. Well, I feel like that's that's why we need to address this. Probably more so than normal. There is a level of compassion. I think that we all need it. That God will give us compassion. And we need to give it to each other. And we have to. Now. Don't be manipulated into compassion. And I'll be honest. It's tricky. Yeah, that's that. I hate when people take advantage of good people. Oh, me, too. Especially when it's me. Right. I don't. How can you. A person gives you their heart. And you take it. I mean, we know that Satan's whole job. And there are people that are probably assigned by Satan to do that. However, if you know what you're doing. Why keep doing it? I scratch my head on some things and judge me later. Like I. I don't know if I'm able to deal with people that manipulate people for no apparent reason. Good people for no apparent reason. That's what I'm saying. I don't know if I'm able to deal with people that manipulate people for no apparent reason. Good people for no apparent reason. That's what I'm saying. That part, I just. Well, it all stems out of selfishness. That's what manipulation comes from, is they're just out for themselves. Yes, yes, absolutely. I agree with that. Yeah. Manipulation is selfishness. Oh, absolutely. What are you gaining by. By taking from a person that will give to you. Well, you're gaining whatever they're giving. Whether it's money, whether it's time, whether it's attention. Whether it's filling your void in your. Love cup or whatever you want to call it. And so when you get that. And what's the satisfaction. The satisfaction in it. That you're getting it. And I think a lot of people get off on manipulating people like it's. It gives them. A sense of what. Like they're. Getting what they want and they ain't having to do anything and. That is tearing me apart. Just to hear that. That is tearing me apart. Just to hear it. People enjoy manipulating. What the crap. You don't think there's people like that out there. There is. And I think some people get into that. Habit and they don't even realize that they continue to do it because it's just second nature to them. They've done it. So much. That they don't even. Recognize that they're even. And like what's the enabling thing. You know when you. Like we said about kids when you've done so much for them. Then they don't try to do anything for themselves because why should they. Someone else is going to pick it up. And it's the same thing with grown people. So let me flip the script on that. The person that's actually enabling or the person that's being manipulated. Do you think. Have you ever been in that place. Do you think that they know. That they are enabling or they know that they are being manipulated and they're just letting it go. Oh my God. I raise my hand. I lived in that. I lived in that for years. And you knew it. And you want to punch any person. I didn't. Like I said I thought I was doing the noble thing. I didn't see it as enabling. There were times though I mean in the later stages of our marriage that I was like this is not. This is not good. What I'm doing is not good. And you realize OK. Yeah I'm not doing that. Yeah. Plus you just get fed up. Gotcha. Do it. When you think about it now to make you want to throw a punch. Don't answer that. Don't answer that. As I was saying. Don't even ask. But you know I mean when you're. When you love someone. Because it's you know it's different when you're just living in the world and you're doing your thing with the world right. But when you're in a relationship and you love someone the enabling I think is a real thing. Like. Because you just love that person and you don't want them to be in discomfort and you don't want them to be. In a bad place. So you. In order to get them out of that bad place you sacrifice yourself or you. You know do things that probably aren't the best idea. But it's trying to make them comfortable. It's trying to make things better. It's trying to make your life together better. Or easier. But usually that only lasts in the moment and then you wind up paying for it later on. The person at least in my experience. OK. OK. So how I'm how I'm viewing this and I want to put scripture behind it. Let me know if this is. Coalating. To me. A person that can manipulate have to be pretty close to you. Do you agree with that or no. I think so. OK. Well I think there's some people that just innately do it like that's just their thing. Really. Well that's what you consider that to be manipulation or that's just somebody trying to get over. I think there are people who are manipulators in the world and that's just how they handle everything. Like we talked about earlier. And that's just their natural progression in life. That's how they live. OK. OK. To those that are pretty close to you when there's a manipulation that's taking place. I feel like there's. Ultimately the trail that's coming. Oh yeah. OK. So I want to put this with scripture. There was 12 guys that Jesus hung out with quite a bit. Apostles. Absolutely. And these guys met them. They had access to them that a lot of people didn't have. If we'll be honest if you want to dig into it a little bit more theologians if you want to help me with this one there were three that was actually pretty closer than close that he hung out and took only a certain that certain three with him certain places. However there were 12 and to be one of the 12. I mean you were in the presence of our savior like you were there. To ultimately manipulate your way that close to betrayal like that's hard for me. I'm talking about the story of Judas. I knew where you were going. You you had to be that close to kiss me. Yeah. Can I preach. Like you've got to be pretty close. Closer than a brother. That's it. To kiss me on the jaw to literally give that that be the person whoever I kiss. That's that because that person trust me to get that close to. That part hurts. There's a spirit that I taught years ago. It's three powerful spirits that Satan use against the body of Christ especially strong believers. One is Lucifer in spirit. One is Jezebel and one is the Absalom spirit Absalom spirit spirit. If you look at it from a spiritual standpoint David's son name was Absalom and Absalom with that being his son. He was manipulating his dad. Not his dad didn't know anything but he was sitting at the gate saying hey my dad's nothing you know I want you to come to blah blah blah. Do this and that for me. I'll do better than him but his dad didn't know anything and that to me is ultimate betrayal when you can get that close to a person knowing that you have an agenda that floors me. What kind of heart do you have to get that close to a person knowing that you're going to manipulate and destroy me behind the scenes and there are people that operate in that spirit. There's not wicked people. There are wicked spirits that attach to people which is what we've talked about before. It's about the spirit that's attached to the person and yeah we know that demons can take any form they want to but so can angels but there is evil out there and it takes the form of people often probably more so than anything else really if you think about it but yes I agree with you to hurt someone that you're absolutely the closest to is an absolute dagger. Once you get that close though to do that that's your agenda from day one. I guess I'm passionate about it because I've experienced that. You want to get that close to destroy me? You took the time this is time to get that close whether it was a spouse whether it was a family member whether you actually made a person a friend you took the time to do that knowing that your ultimate agenda was to kill me but they didn't they didn't they didn't but they didn't they lost I almost screamed right there so neener neener it didn't work it didn't work because there's favor yes and there's anointing thank you God and what we what evil does on this earth isn't going to change that and it's not going to change the people that those things are upon you're right you're absolutely right so they can keep fighting that fight they're going to keep fighting it until they go back to the grave where they came from yeah so let them yeah I get it but yes when you're the one that's heartbroken over it yeah it can be devastating for sure no doubt but I'm starting to understand now the difference between the consoling and the enabling because if I'm more consoling I don't know about you but my antennas go up and my red flags are peeping looking around like what what you want yeah what's really going on here what's going on tell me what you actually want and I don't know you my girl I can tell you I don't want to be like that with everybody I don't want to be side eye on everybody I mean we shouldn't have to live like that every day but yeah but you make me do it man I'll be side eye on everybody you send me the turn signal all the time turn turn watch your back always keep your head on the swivel maybe it's just the type of work I mean yeah I'm sure that's part of it yes it's taking a toll on me you think so I don't think you want everybody else to understand that yeah I think we all do that we all speak from our perspectives otherwise what would we speak from amen yeah you have to speak what you have knowledge of you can't there you go you're just talking out your butt if you talk about things you don't know anything about so good so next time I'm careful with paying attention to manipulation and to becoming so consoling that I'm not looking at the ultimate situation as you spoke at the beginning of this my child should know I'll help you always you to help yourself as I'm helping you that's that's all I ask we both work for a ministry that really want people to help themselves but that's how we can help you when you're helping yourself this is not a ministry to enable you it's to get you to the point to help yourself right and if you're not helping yourself why would you get pissed off thank you for telling you to help yourself a lot of them do don't they amen and that's you know we have created the entitlement because of the way we've raised yes people it was a drop the mic moment when you said it up front as soon as you got on mic you know you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you 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