Dragons Lair: Find a way

The Dragon's Lair podcast discusses the recent signings of Shane Lewis Hughes and Olly Burrows by the Dragons rugby team. Lewis Hughes, a Wales forward, will be joining the Dragons from Cardiff next season. Burrows, a 21-year-old hooker, is returning to Wales from Exeter Chiefs. The hosts express their excitement about the signings and discuss the competition for positions in the team. They also mention the potential departure of current players and the need for strong front row players. The podcast ends with a mention of the team's remaining business in the transfer market. Welcome to the Dragon's Lair. Hello and welcome to this week's edition of the Dragon's Lair podcast, your home of all things Dragons, RFC and rugby in the region. I'm Jamie and joining me as always is Gavin Thomas, how are you sir? I'm very well Jamie, very well. Good, good stuff. You can find us in all the usual places, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube and don't forget to follow us on our social media channels, we're on Facebook and X, formerly known as Twitter of course. And I want to give a shout out to Dragons legend Brock Harris for joining me last weekend for the exclusive bonus podcast. I'm so sorry you couldn't join the staff, I feel really bad about it but what a bloke, he's such a nice guy Gavin, you would have loved it, he was such a lovely bloke. The pod was great and yeah, I was stuck on a train from Dover at the time so I was slightly irritated but you know it's good that we've got Brock on the pod. Yeah, he's a really nice guy and if you haven't listened to it, please do check it out. We spoke about his upbringing in South Africa, how he got into the game, coming to the Dragons, his time there. My favourite part was him describing Lynn Jones as a bit weird, I found that quite funny really, I don't know, that just tickled me. Yeah and obviously his time at the Storm, he's 39 years old, still going strong, talking about the differences between scrumging on the loose and the tight, which I found really interesting. So yeah, just a top man, lovely guy. Yeah, so shout out to Brock, thank you very much for joining me. So let's get straight into the news Gav, now it feels like a long time since we recorded last together and since then there has been a lot of news. So if you remember the last pod we recorded, shortly after we finished, Dragons announced the signing of Shane Lewis Hughes. Funny enough, I said it'd be a very good signing for the Dragons on this very podcast. What a coincidence, who would have thought it? So Wales forward Shane Lewis Hughes will move from Cardiff to join the Dragons ahead of next season. Lewis Hughes can play as a flanker or a lock and he came from Cardiff's academy and has played 69 games for the region. I watched Cardiff Lions on the weekend and he's back from injury now and he came off the bench in the 60th minute, so it's really good to see him back. Yeah, so what do you think of that one then, Gav, Shane Lewis Hughes, do you think that's a good pick up for the Dragons? Yeah, without being critical of current players, he's an upgrade on Sean Lonsdale, isn't he? He's a better player than Sean Lonsdale and he'll inhabit that similar place in the squad, that kind of hybrid second row, back row, forward. But, you know, it'll be interesting what we're going to do with our second row and back row now. If we have everyone together, they are going to be fairly big-ish names that aren't going to be in the side. What's Harry Keddy's place in the squad now? What's Matthew Screech's place in the squad? Isn't that what we want though, Gav? Don't we want competition for places? Because competition breeds performance, doesn't it? I want people to have to work hard and fight for their place, you know? If you know you're going to get picked every week, I guess you sort of lack that desire in competition, whereas if you've got depth in every position, which you need to have to be competitive in the URC, then I think it's a good thing you've got depth in every position. So it's a welcome headache to back to London, isn't it? Oh, indeed. I don't know if you saw Sam Larner's post before the Shane Lewis Hughes announcement, and he was basically saying that people had said to me that if everyone was there, Dragons had a decent 15, he said, but now they're getting a decent 23 if everyone's available. Absolutely friend of the pod, Sam Larner, of course. And he knows his onions, doesn't he? And he's absolutely right, of course. Yeah, I'm very pleased about that one. He's had a bit of bad luck with injury, I think it's fair to say. Shane Lewis Hughes, in 2020, that sort of Covid-era, he was really, really good to have seen. That's what led to him being picked by PIVAC for Wales. I've always been a fan of Shane Lewis Hughes for a long time. He was, of the PIVAC selections, he was probably the best one. Yes. I thought there was those two games he played and they looked very good, didn't they? Yeah, I think it's a good sign. And then I have to say, I was surprised when I found out that he was leaving Cardiff. I think he would have been part of Cardiff's fans, I saw a few salty comments from Cardiff fans, but I think he definitely would have been part of Jockey's plans going forward, if he had stayed. He's a very versatile player, he's a Welsh international and I think he's quality and I'm really pleased we picked him up. And the good thing is, we've picked him up on, well, according to the Argos, on relatively meagre terms. So we're not paying over the odds. So if it doesn't work out, for example, if he picks up lob injuries, that's fine, because we're not paying over the odds for him. And obviously, if it does work out, then we've got a Welsh international, quite cheap. So it's a win-win situation, as far as I'm concerned. Absolutely. And there were lots of people saying, oh, why are we just getting foreign players? Well, we've recruited Welsh now, so... I've got no time for those people who keep saying foreign players. So that's a rabbit hole, I don't want to go down, it bores my piss. But yes, very pleased with that signing. So Shane Lewis, who will be joining the Dragons in the summer. And then another signing that was announced recently. So the Dragons are bringing Olly Burrows back over to Wales. The 21-year-old from Leith, he's agreed to join the Dragons from Exeter Chiefs. The former Wales Under-20s international moved to Sandy Park in 2020, and he made a senior debut for the Chiefs in the Premiership Cup against Bristol Bears back in 2021. And this season, Burrows has spent it on loan down at Cornish Pirates. So I'm very flattered I had this to say about him. Olly is a big man and has a lot of potential. It's great that we can bring someone like him back home to Wales. He is an ambitious player who will love to drive competition in the front row. It's that big man thing again, Gav, isn't it? Have you noticed the continuing theme for all our signings? They are all big men. It's interesting because I'd say hooker is somewhere. We have strength in depth already as well. Good Elliot is clearly first cap off the rank. James Benjamin has performed well and has some flexibility and versatility. I was going to say young lad Coughlin. He looks a good player and will become better. Yeah, and Bradley Roberts as well. I think Bradley Roberts is probably done for now. Yes, I was about to say, I would say that this signing points Bradley towards the exit door. And I know a lot of supporters are disappointed about that. And look, I love Bradley, as you know, I spoke very highly of him on this podcast. I speak highly of him. I've always been a big fan. You know, I love him to bits. But actually, I can see why we're moving him on as well. And let's not forget, he hasn't played a game for the Dragons since January. And I read in the article that he's seen a specialist regarding his back, which that doesn't sound good at all. You know, so I think it's the right time to move him on. And he's a big guy, isn't he, this Olly Bowes? And we want big men. And as much as I love Bradley, you know, his size, it's a problem, isn't it? You know, you do lose that power in the scrub, and we do need a bit more grunt up front. And yeah, he should have had more opportunities for Wales. But if we're being brutally honest, did he really grasp those opportunities when he was selected with Wales? I don't think he did. Yeah, he was always what he was, which was what the 4-4-5 best hooker in Wales. Yeah. Yeah. And if you're the 4-4-5 best hooker in a position where there's only one in the team or one in the squad, then you're going to have, when you get those opportunities, you have to take them. And he never did in the way that Elliot has, that Ryan Elias has. He's better than the other options. But yeah. No, no, I agree. You know, he had a very good game against France in the 20-23 Six Nations. He scored a try as well, didn't he, if I remember correctly. But since then, Gatland hasn't taken a second look at him. He's just not in his plan. So maybe it's best for Bradley to move on. It's a shame, like I said, I'm a big fan of Bradley, but I'm not too disappointed that he's leaving. I am disappointed, but I'm not gutted or anything like that. I can see why the club has made this move, even if it won't be popular with some of our supporters. I think now is the right time. So, yes, that was that signing. So, Olly Burrows. Yeah, exciting young signing, I think, isn't it? And like I said, it breeds competition at Hucker and we've got some good depth in now. I can see him kind of, Niamh is an absolute breeding ground for absolutely psychopathic hookers. So I'm hoping he comes from the Kevin Phillips school. You're probably a bit young to remember Kevin Phillips. He was an absolute lunatic. Yeah, yeah. James, our rap co-host, is a big fan of Olly Burrows. He said that's a really good signing. He knows him. Was he a Scarletts as a kid? No, he was Ospreys. He was Ospreys, which would make sense being from Neath. No, he came from the Ospreys academy. He went to the pathway, the uni pathway at Exeter, didn't he? Yeah, that's how he got picked up, yeah. Yeah, the same with Chris Sunzer and David Jenkins, yeah. Yeah, that's right. So, yeah, those are the signing news then. Well, just one more update then before we move on. So, Dave Flanagan has said that we've got a little bit of business left to do and a little bit in the bathroom stuff. And then ideally, we would like another 10 slash 15 because we are lightning. No mention of props. Dyer's targeting a fly half who can play fullback. Here's why things could happen. I think that we're going to keep our tight set, our hip. I think you'll stay for another year. And I do think you'll keep the ombre as well, but on reduced terms. What would you think of that if that happens? If we didn't bring any props, but we kept our hip for another year, and then we retain the ombre, because that's what it looks like it's going to happen. That's my prediction. Yeah, that's fine, I would imagine. And maybe the fact that we've added Bulk elsewhere in the park will help. Yeah, when Jones is there, I would like, it'd be nice to see us try and tempt him over the locker and down to Newport, but I can't see it happening. No, a lot of people have still compared it to like, oh, if you say you'd be like Rob Evans, but I don't agree because first of all, Wyn Jones is a much better player than Rob Evans ever was. This guy is a British lion. Three years ago, right? He was started against the Springboks. So I mean, so he's got a lot of quality, but for some reason, I think he's fallen out between PO. He's been in a bit of a lull, hasn't he? He has, but I was reading an interview he did with Rugby Pass, he said he feels fitter than ever now, and he's fresh, he's ready to go, but he's not really getting game time. I would take a punt, but I don't think the Dragons will, I think they'll stick with what they've got. So they probably stick with, obviously, Rodrigo Jones, who I think's had a very good season, Martinez, who's been up and down, and then you've got Josh Reynolds, we've got Dylan Griffiths as well. So that's why I think they'll stick with it. But we'll wait and see, maybe we will pick up a prop later on, because we picked up Martinez in pre-season, didn't we, last year? We picked him up quite late. So if it's room in the budget, maybe we will pick up a prop, but that would be my guess that we retain our hit and we give Leon a new deal, which might be a little bit divisive amongst some of our supporters on that, but it remains to be seen. Right, in other news, let's move on to backroom stuff. Oh, I love this appointment. Dragons have announced a defence coach at Laff, and it's none other than former All Black and Ospreay's legend, Bilo Teotia. Remember him, Dad? I do, I do indeed. Yeah, so the former All Black and Ospreay's legend has been head coach at Toyota Purblitz and the Sunwells in Japan, and he spent time as forwards coach and assistant coach with the Japan national side. Teotia has also worked in Super Rugby as forwards coach for Monaco Pacifica, and he has a spell as forwards coach with Auckland Rugby. So he's coming back to us with a wealth of coaching experience and knowledge. Very impressive CV actually, isn't it? So are you happy with this appointment, Dad? Wouldn't you think that it's great? Experienced coach, has coached at the highest levels, has got a breadth of coaching experience, you know, he's not been just coaching in the Welsh Prime Ministership, no offence to the Prime Ministership, but you know, this is somebody who has coached in Super Rugby, this is somebody who's coached international rugby in the Japanese High League, you know, he's done it all. Knows Welsh Rugby, having been at Bondi for a number of years, you know, it's a really good appointment. And Moana Pacifica, who he's been on the coaching side at, are a formidable side. If you compare them to the Drew, who look a bit lightweight, Pacifica do not, they're well organised, they're well structured, they're really aggressive around the fringes of racks. Be interested to see if that's the defensive style he's going to bring. Yeah, he's got a wealth of experience at club and international level, so it's not like we're taking a pendant on it. Well, the guy here, you know, he's a guy with really good credentials and a good CV. See, I think there's more to this, so I don't think he's just coming here to coach defence. Yes, he will be responsible for that, that's his remit, but I think T.O.T. is going to call, I don't want to say all the shots, but I think he's going to have a big say and a big influence in what happens at the Dragons, because Dave Blandon has spoken about having him to lean on, that bit of experience, because he has to be the head coach as well. And I don't know about you, Gav, but I would not want to be the players in a Stradmere on a Monday morning if the defensive performance has been slacking. If you're that guy making half-hearted tackles and T.O.T. is not happy with it, you can look out, can't you? Because that's the guy you really don't want to piss off. Yeah, can you imagine you come off half-time, it's been a bit lacklustre. It's not going to be a polite chat, is it? There's going to be a lot of banging of lockers. Oh, yes. And maybe that's what they need, you know, because he's going to bring structure and quality to the coaching, but also they need to rock it up their arse sometimes, and I don't think Dye really gives that. No, that's the problem. A lot of supporters say that he's too nice, you know, that he's a nice guy and, you know, who's really, you know, laying down the law to the players after a poor performance. But I think what T.O.T. will do, he'll gain respect from the players. I think they'll respect him. And there's been a lot of talk about culture, you know, about the culture at the Dragons and feel T.O.T. will come in and change the culture. I mean, I've got my hopes up for this appointment. I think it could be really, really transformational for us. I'm not going to say we're going to turn into Will Peters overnight, but I think T.O.T. is the kind of guy who can come in, gain respect, get the players fighting for him and try and turn around that mentality and culture. What I'm hearing, Jamie, is Champions Cup in two years. I'm not even going to make any predictions now, but you know what I mean. I do think I would like to see it in two years, yeah. You know, I am confident, he says, touching whatever this is, is not what, I am confident that we will perform better next season than we have this season. Yes, I am as well. I'm already looking forward to next season now. You know, in a way, these two games, yeah, of course I want to win them. But now I just think, well, if we don't, even if we do finish bottom of the URC, I'm not that bothered, really. Because what does it mean? There's no relegation, there's no real consequences. Yeah, okay, we've finished that. We've had a bad year. We just look forward. The only way is that business. So I'm really looking forward to next year. There's so many positive changes happening at the moment at the club. And yes, we have been here before. We've had so many false stones in the past, but I don't know. I just feel that we're making the right moves. It feels like there's a plan and a proper strategy in place to turn this around. And we've got good people in charge this time, definitely. We have. We have. Yeah. And they've thought about what they're doing. I think last summer, when we were first doing the pod, it was a bit like, yeah, I'm not really sure what the purpose is of some of the recruitment. But now you can really see what the purpose is. Yeah. And also, don't forget, we was in limbo with the takeover, wasn't we? We did have a defence coach. I was never happy. Well, we wasn't happy with the coaching centre, was we? You know, we had concerns about it, but we have a proper coaching set up now. And yeah, roll on next season. I'm really looking forward to it because it's a very good appointment. And speaking of very good appointments, here's another one for you, Gav. The Dragons have appointed a key member of Gatlin's backroom team as their new head of performance. So Dr Ryan Chambers is currently head of sports science for the WIU. He's been employed by them for the past 15 years, but he's going to join the Dragons this summer. And he's going to be replacing Dan Barrow, of course, who's leaving the Dragons to link up with the Georgia national team. So we've got a key guy from Warren Gatlin's backroom team. You know, it's that guy that's been part of, you know, our backroom team that's won grand slams and being able to catch semi-finals. So that's another big coup de sac for this club to get someone of his stature and intelligence, I guess. Is there a strength and conditioning role? I was trying to work, because I read the report in the August and I was trying to work out what exactly his role is. Well, it says head and performance, so I'm guessing it will be so strength, conditioning, nutritional advice, that sort of thing, you know, statistician, you know, statistics and all that. I think this is a data-driven, you know, performance role. I think it's that. But that's good. That's good. You know, like, oh, yeah, for 15 years, like he's got amazing experience. So it's just good to have someone with that knowledge. And I see you joining you, isn't it? So, yeah, another positive appointment. In other news then, 20-year-old Pontypool and Dragons hooker Sam Scarp has gone on loan to Gloucester until the end of the season. So he's now the fourth player to feature for Gloucester this season after Josh Reynolds, Shea Hope and Lewis Jones played for Gloucester, but they played in friendly fixtures. So Sam made his Cherry White debut last weekend. He came off the bench, 41st minutes. We got a fair bit of game time. Unfortunately, he was part of the Gloucester team that lost 19-0 to Northampton 6. Ah, poor Sam. I mean, that scoreline is shocking. And look, I know it was third string. I know it was third string. There's a lot of kids now, but that shouldn't happen in a professional game. That should not happen in a mechanical premiership, that scoreline. I'm sorry. That is pretty disgraceful by Gloucester, isn't it? No, the Gloucester coaches need to have a look themselves, because I don't know if you watched, I watched highlights. It was men versus boys, you know, and they all looked up to their depth. Sam looked a bit up to his depth, as you would expect, because he's up against a side to go to the semi-finals of Europe. Yeah. And, you know, it was a bunch of kids, essentially. Yeah, but Sam is one for the future. Oh, yeah. That's not the experience you would have wanted, being part of that team that got back to 90-0. But it is part of, you know, the learning and growing, I guess, isn't it? Yeah. So, yeah, I tell you what, my Gloucester are going to look very daft if they don't win the Challenge Cup, because they're wrestling all these players. If they win the Cup, fine, it's paid off. But, you know, there's a bit of a humiliation involved, where they could say, well, we won the European Cup. But if they don't, then George Givington's going to look like a bit of a wally, isn't he? Yeah, he's obviously a nice George Givington, I think. I tell you what will be interesting, they're playing Newcastle on the weekend, and Newcastle haven't won a game all season. So that'll be interesting to see what team they put out and whether Newcastle can finally get their first win. We think it's been tough with the Dragons, which it has, but Spirit Football and Newcastle haven't won a single game all season. Yeah, but same thing, they know they can't get relegated. No relegation this season, is there? No, no, that's true. Okay, let's talk about the leavers list then. So, Dragons, like a lot of clubs now, it's that time of the year, we have announced our leavers list. The following players will be leaving the club in the summer. So, Aki Salui, Sean Lonsdale, Theo Tomkinson, Gonzalo Bertranou, who's currently on loan at Cardiff, Max Clarke, who is currently on loan at Cardiff, Lewis Jones, Corey Baldwin, who's now left the Dragons, they released him early from his contract, so he's playing shoot shield rugby in Australia. Nathan Evans, who's featured quite a lot for Newport RFC this season, and Jack Dixon, who of course retired recently to pursue a career outside the sport. So those are the leavers. Now, there's three names on there that didn't feature, and they were Dan Lyddiart, Leon Brown, and Bradley Roberts. Now, we expect Bradley Roberts, with that sign of Ollie Rose, to move on. That hasn't been confirmed, but that's what we expect to happen. So, when you look at our list, what do you make of it? Are there any names in here that stand out to you? Did you think, oh, I wish we could have kept hold of him? You know, were there any major disappointments for you? No, they were all players I said to you that I saw going, and I wasn't that worried about him. He hasn't really done a great deal. You know, he hasn't wrote a lot. Sean Lonsdale is fine, but we've upgraded on Sean Lonsdale. Theo Tomkinson, again, decent player, but not really Sean. I think it's been a big problem with Theo. I like Theo, and you know, I think there's room in the budget to keep him. We would have, but I think that's a budget call, you know. I think that's a budget call because he wouldn't have come cheap, but unfortunately, we haven't seen the best of him. Max Clarke as well, you know, promised a bit, delivered very little. Speaking of Max Clarke, did you watch the Lions-Cardiff game on Saturday? No, I did not watch that. I watched hundreds of bits of rugby on the weekend, but not that game. So Max Clarke came off the bench for Cardiff in the 73rd minute. So Lions have just scored a try. They bring Max Clarke on. Firstly, he's got a new look. So he's cut off his long locks and he's dyed it bleach blonde. So he now looks like early 2000s Eminem, right? That's the first thing. Second thing, within seconds of being on the field, he got absolutely flattened by 40-year-old William Albers. He was about to stop it. Was that the same game that Gonzalo got his face smashed in as well? Yeah, so Gonzo went off early. I've heard official complaints, but literally Max Clarke came on the field, his first call of action, and Albers just ran through him like he wasn't there. And I watched it and I thought, yeah, that's why we let him go to Cardiff. When he came from Bath, I'm thinking, yeah, he's a good player. He's big, he's strong, but he offers absolutely nothing. He's not physical enough, I don't think. And you know, Corey Baldwin, I think Corey Baldwin has probably hit his right level, essentially playing third-tier rugby in Australia. Yeah, I don't think, when you look at that list, I mean, I know you're not as big a fan of him as I am, but I did like Sean Lonsdale. I thought he worked hard, I thought he was a grafter. He didn't set the world alight, but you know, he's reliable. We've got loads of players like that. We've got Shane Lewis Hughes coming in. Yeah, who's an upgrade? You know, and we've got George Knott does that role, Screech does that role. I don't know what he brought to it. And Guy playing him in the back, he is not a back row. He was always better at second row. There's no dynamism, there's no ball carrying. He will end up playing in the RFU Championship, I imagine, and that's his level. Well, maybe, we'll see. You know, I think he would be a decent pickup for one of the other regions, but with budgets so tight, I don't really know ways for the goal, I guess. But like you said, the Championship seems a pretty good place. I mean, you can imagine somewhere like Ealing, can't you? Not in Humming. Trail Finders, not in Bedford, maybe. I don't know. Maybe Paul Turner will take him down to Amtil. Yeah, Amtil, of course. I do wish Orwell Department plays the very best. However, you know, good luck to them. You know, Bertrand who might get signed permanently by Cardiff, they seem to like him down there. Apparently Max Clarke is doing okay at Cardiff. That's fine. They could have him, that's okay. We've got a lot of depth in the centre now. You know, we've got guys, we've got young guys like Joe Westwood, Harry Ackerman coming through. Then we've got an Ivan Owen, and Steph Hughes, and of course Harry Wilson, our new signing. So, Max Clarke won't get anywhere near Amtil. Oh no, no, he won't get. I don't think Seal would either, you know. I think Daria Fair, you know, Harry Ackerman anyway, and Chris Hollis can play in the centre as well. Yeah, he seems to be making the 23 at Cardiff, so good luck to him, you know. All the best, all the best to them. Okay, let's move on then to Gav's Gwent Rugby Roundup. And it was a Premiership final, wasn't it? It was, it was, and sadly the title did not come back to Gwent. No. It went over the locker with Flandovry. To be fair, it was a close game, 14-7 win for Flandovry. Flandovry have been the best team in the league all year. Newport ended the season well, but Flandovry have been consistently the strongest side. They lost to Newport once, but ultimately they did what they needed to do, that's their second title. But to be fair to Newport though, I will give them a lot of credit. They have had a fantastic season and Tye Morris has done a really good job. You know, what he's done there is he's combined experienced players, along with the talent, the young talent we have at the Dragons. We've seen guys like Shea Hope and Joe Westwood really kick on there. You know, David Richards has done well. And you know, you've got guys like Elliot Fluid, Lewis Lloyd, Matt O'Brien, of course, Dragons' backs coach. And before that final, they had won 15 games in a row since they lost to Flandovry. I mean, that was an incredible run they went on, so I think Tye Morris has been to a lot of credit. Well, I was going to say, Tye Morris has just done the sensible thing. He's got all this young talent, but instead of just saying, well, we'll rely on that, he's got a Reinhardt in and a couple of old heads who are going to do what's needed to be done and give the space and the time to the younger guys. How good has Reinhardt been for him as well? I don't know if you saw the picture of him after the game and he just stood on the pitch in his socks drinking a beer and he thought, yeah, that's what rugby's about. He posted a lovely picture as well on Twitter of him and Adam Warren. Yes, yeah, that was a picture of him and Adam Warren having a beer together. Yeah, yeah, two Dragons greats there. I miss Adam Warren, he's a very good player, he's very reliable. But, yeah, commiserations to Newport, it's been a great season. I mean, let's be honest, Llanderby and Newport were by far and away the best teams in their Premiership, no one else came close to them. But, yeah, congratulations to Llanderby on their back-to-back title wins for them, innit? But there was a number of other games and the last, well, Llanderby's last game in the Premiership and Newport's last game in the Premiership before moving into the EDC next year alongside Ebbw Vale and Pontypool, so lots of Gwent involvement in the EDC. But below the Premiership, there were a number of games. So, in the Championship, Bedwars played Triochi and won 31-22 at home. In Division 1, Pontypool United beat Bed Linnog 19-7 and Tallowine beat St Genes 17-12. In Division 2, Oakdale lost a thrilling game against Ableary Blaenau Gwent 24-26 at home. Ableary Blaenau Gwent unbeaten all season. In Division 3, a less thrilling game, I would imagine, Abertussog lost to Blaenau 5-9. Well, for the poorest that sounds. I've said this before and I'll say it again, Abertussog is not a nice place to play rugby. I can't imagine that was a nice day for anybody. Lovely club Abertussog, very welcoming but not a nice place to play. In Division 4, Bertos beat Havard Aranis 62-14. Blackwood Stars lost 12-71 at home against Gwyneved. A couple of scores suggesting teams have given up for the season, a little bit. Newham Handshake beat Bedweldy 52-17. Whitehead lost 23-34 at home to Crumlin. End of season scores in Division 5 and 6. In Division 5, West Monn lost 7-69 at home against Fordside. It's been a tough season for West Monn anyway, they've shipped a lot of points all season. Ending as they've done most of the season. In Division 6, Trenant lost 61-9 at home to Derry. Great stuff. Is that it? It is. What we have from the Welsh regions and leagues. The one thing I would say, when you're looking at some of those bigger scores down the bottom, you do fear for the likes of clubs like West Monn and Trenant. But it would be an absolute body vote to those communities. So hopefully, they can keep the players happy and keep the players playing. Yeah, I just want to add as well, we were going to have somebody from New Tradigo RFC join us this week, but they're having a couple of big meetings and they've postponed their appearance on the pod. They want to have these meetings first and then they'll give us more information about their rebuild, because they're going through a big rebuild, as you know. So we will get somebody from New Tradigo RFC at some point to come on. And like you said, Gav, more community clubs. We will try and do that, I think. We'll reach out to community clubs next year and hopefully have them on quite regularly. But if you're listening to this and you're part of a community club in the Gwent region, then let us know and we'd be happy to have you on if you play in the Championship or if you play in Division 6. We are interested. Yeah, absolutely. We've been very fortunate to have some fantastic guests on this pod. I'm surprised some of them didn't agree to come on here, but they have. And fair play to those guys. But I would like more people from the community game, I think, from grassroots. You've done a fantastic job of the guests, Jamie. There's no doubt in that. Some of the people we've had on are really, really impressive. It is, isn't it? Rock, Reinhard, Olin Chavis, David Fetris. Yeah, we've had some brilliant guests on. In fact, it's all those people that have appeared and the supporters as well. Tom Coleman from Leicester support, Leanne Lowe-Lyons. It's been really good. OK, let's have a look at Friday night. Well, look back at Friday night, I should say. We played the Stormers, a fully loaded Stormers, packed with Springbok players. Are we really a little bit fearful about this, aren't we? So the score finished, Dragons 21, Stormers 44. However, that doesn't tell the full story, does it, Gav? Because Stormers head coach, John Dobson, who I've got a lot of time and respect for, I really like John Dobson. He said, and I quote, the final scoreline was probably one of the most unfair ones I've seen in rugby. He's right, Gav, isn't he? That scoreline does not reflect our efforts. What did you make of it? Yeah, I think for 60 minutes, we were really, really good. I think there were two 10-minute periods that done for us. The first was the first 10 minutes when we were about first 15, really. We dominated territory and possession, did score, but probably should have scored more. And then the last 10 minutes when it all went to hell in a handcart, really. But the defining moment of the game for me, I think it was about 20 minutes in, and we had controlled the game, absolutely controlled the game. And Chris Hollis got stripped in a tackle. And then Stormers have kicked and scored, and it was the first attack. And I think that was the difference between the two teams. There was a sharp edge for Stormers that we didn't have. Yeah, that first half though, I thought we were very, very good. We had 72% possession and 77% territory. That was the Dragons in the first half, those were the stats. And yet we only had one point to show for our dominance because Will Reid made an error, he failed to collect an aerial bomb. That leads to Stormers' try. It was a great cross pick from Morrick Allant and Ingringer, you know, fair play, he was well executed. But other than that try, the Stormers didn't fire a shot. We was well on top. I thought we were fantastic. But then, like I said, you go into the set at halftime, you're thinking, we're only a point behind when we should have had a bigger lead. How are the Stormers going to come out in the second half and can we keep it up? And the second half was a different story. I mean, it's worth pointing out in the last quarter, the Dragons were still winning. We were 21-16 ahead inside our final quarter. And even in the 72nd minute, Dragons were only two points behind. Yeah, it wasn't a 23-20 nine minutes ago. It was something like that, yeah. So we were well in the game. But that last 10 minutes absolutely killed us. And it started with the unfortunate sin binning of Rodrigo Martínez, who I have to say was disappointed with because, look, I like Martínez and when he's on it, he's on it and he is a decent scrummacher. But he came off for Rodri, who had a very good game, really solid at scrum. Don't forget when he's coming up against Vanswell for the World Cup, he's done well, Rodri Jones. He has. Martínez comes on and he just gives away penalty after penalty after penalty. And Chris Busby, the referee, was warning him. It's like, something's going to happen here. He sent him off for the 71st minute, I think it was. Martínez put him under so much pressure. Rodri Jones was dealing with the pressure and Malherbe, it was interesting just to watch the scrum, wasn't it? Rodri Jones had kind of controlled Malherbe and all he's done to Martínez is just short this bind and pull him in. And every single time he's just popping out or popping sideways. Yeah. So that means then we're down to 14 men for the rest of the game. So we're a man down, which doesn't help. Springboks, you know, coming onto the field, they've got a strong bench to storm us, really good depth. I have to say Friends of the Pod and Dragons Legends, while Cargis was pretty good, he made a big difference to this scrum when he came on, no surprise. So yeah, we have to deal with that. And then Angus O'Brien comes onto the field, picks up another injury. He's just had a wretched season for injuries. He's had no luck at all. So he limped off. And that meant that we had to reshuffle our backline. So we ended up with Steph Hughes at fly half. We had Theo Thomason moving into the centre midfield. And then we had Dave Blackner, a scrum off, switching out to the wing. And then we had Woldemar Lloyd, the pointy boot scrum off, coming on for his debut. So we've got a completely disjointed backline, you know, no cohesion here at all. And then playing with 14 men, they score three tries in the last eight minutes. And all of a sudden you're left with a lopsided scoreline that really doesn't reflect how the Dragons played. It was cruel. It was unfair. And I felt we deserved something out of it. But that's pro sport, I guess, Gavin. The Stormers really did show their class in those last seven, eight minutes. It's the difference between top teams and not top teams, isn't it? They took every chance that was given to them. They put us under pressure when they needed to. We didn't take the chances. And it's the difference between, hopefully, where we are now and where we are next season. The bench wasn't really strong enough. So when we made changes, we did go weaker. And that's happened a few times this season. And even when I've looked at our team sheet and I've looked at the bench, I think, oh, that's a decent bench. Certain players, and I won't name them, they haven't made an impact when they come on. And that's disappointing. Rugby is a 23-man game. We need everyone to pull their weight and chip in and make an impact on the field. You can't just rely on your first 15. And the best teams have that depth, don't they? And they have a bench, finishers, whatever you want to call them. I know it's cringey to finishers, but you need those guys to come on and make an impact. And unfortunately, that didn't happen. But let's take the positive stuff. Dragons went toe to toe. We were never going to win this. It was always going to be a tough game. But we went toe to toe with one of the best teams in the URC, who were loaded with springboard players. But it was only the last 10 minutes where it really did go to shit. But other than that, it was a good effort. It wasn't a bad performance. We questioned the effort that would be over certain Dragons games. And this was a game where you'd go, save the corner at length. We looked at it and we said, that was a good effort. Yeah, the effort was there. You know, same mistakes killing us. But hopefully next season, they'll disappear a little bit. I'm hoping that we can be, if we get another 10 in, I'm hoping it's some experience so we can give Will Weed a bit of a break. Because I don't think the season's been great for him. I don't not rate him. I just think I just think he's young, he's still learning his game. And errors will haunt him if he doesn't get a chance to just, to love it. Yeah, I think with Weed, look, he's had the shoulder, you know, the burden of, you know, on his shoulders because Kai Evans has been injured. Angus has been out for a lot this season. He's played a lot of rugby. And he's a young 10. He's learning his craft. And he does make a lot of errors. And that's kind of the problem. You know, when I do feel for him, he does need a rest. And unfortunately for this weekend, he's only fit to be able to fly half, which means we're going to need him to do probably an 80 minute performance because he's only fit to be able to fly half. So it's been difficult. And he is a talented player. This is a guy who's been name checked by Will Gatland, don't forget. So the Welsh branch really keeping tabs on him. But it has to be all right. We do need an experienced 10. And Dave Langdon has talked about that this week. So we'll see what he comes up with there. But, you know, in terms of positives in individual efforts, Aaron Wainwright, he's so fucking good, isn't he? Aaron Wainwright was doing Aaron Wainwright things again. He is so, so good. He's got to be our player of the season, hasn't he? He certainly, yeah. I think him, I think Rodgerie Jones probably deserves a bit of credit. But I'm going to say my player of the season right now, we might want to do this more formally. As for me, it's been Jared Ross, who's just always, he's given 100%. He hasn't, there's been a couple of opportunities where perhaps he should have done better. Yeah, Edinburgh game. But I think Jared Ross has had a strong season. But yeah, Aaron Wainwright is a class above, you know, I'm not comparing him to Jared Ross. He's a much better player than Jared and looked great against Thomas. Yeah. And I thought Harry Kesey worked his socks off as he always does. You know, he's scored a try. I thought he worked really hard in the back row. Rodgerie Jones, who I already mentioned, I thought he was really solid at scrunt time, like I said, against Ransfell. The scrunt did disintegrate when he came off, unfortunately. Dane Blacker, you know, let's be honest, he hasn't set the world alight since he's moved to Scarlets. You know, he hasn't been bad by any means, but I don't think he's, you know, been brilliant either. But against Connacht, perfectly fine, we like to say on this podcast. He's been perfectly fine. You know what, he was good against Connacht and he was good again against the Stormers. So, the more game time he's having, the more confidence he's building, he's getting better. So, I don't know what the status is for him. I don't know if Rodgerie's going to be fit. Rodgerie, I'm sorry, is going to be fit for the Ospreys game. But if Dane Blacker starts, I'm fine with that. I think he's getting much better and he will get more game time, especially with Gertrude Newell leaving the club. But yeah, you know, it's positive to take out of it. We come away with nothing. We didn't get any reward. Like, you know, we did get a bonus point against Connacht and it is similarities there. You know, Ben Carter gets sent off with the game in the balance, we lose. You know, Rodrigo Márquez gets sent off with the game in the balance, we lose. So, there's discipline issues there, there's mentality game management and then there's those compounded errors. But they were enough positives in this game to be optimistic. Yeah, I think with props, sometimes it needs to be a bit more like grassroots rugby. If you know your starting prop is great and your replacement prop is great, and then the other starting prop will be another 10 minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another 10 minutes. As you make them play a whole game. It was a beautiful night in Newport as well. And the beer was going down really nice, too good for my liking. But yeah, it was going down nice. I was drinking cider, actually. That's what I might be, but it was good for my drink. Yeah, it was going down nice. Thatchers. And all the kids and everyone was allowed on the pitch after the game, which was a nice touch. Yeah, it was a good atmosphere. It was a really good atmosphere. There were more stormers fans here than I was expecting. I saw quite a few around the city centre. Oh God, yeah, they're probably from bloody London, Bristol. They're expats, but it was still nice to have that away contention because they do add to the atmosphere. So, yeah, it was a good night. Just a shame about the results. But yeah. I'm going to the Wales South Africa game on June the 20th, wherever it is, 26th. And I imagine that will just be South Africans, largely. But yeah, there we go then. That was Friday night. Now let's look ahead. Welsh Derby action. We are away to the Ospreys. Swansea.com stadium, kick off three o'clock on Saturday. The referee is Ben Briggsphere, who is making only his second league game. So this is just the second game in charge in the URC. So I'm interested to see how he interprets this one. The game is live on Premier Sports only, so it's not on free to air, but S4C are showing a full match replay on Saturday night at five past ten. So if you haven't got Premier Sports, you can watch the game in full on Saturday night on S4C. So Dragons last win against the Ospreys in Swansea was Wengaff. You know I like to play this game with you. I put this on social media. You should know this. Yeah, no, I put it on social media. Oh, it's a long time ago. 2012, because it was a young Faleta, wasn't it? It was 2010, October 31st, 2010. The Dragons won 16-21. A young Tulupe Faleta, he was 19 at the time, was playing in a match and a certain Mr. Dave Flanagan was Ospreys fly half. That's how long it's been. Dave Flanagan was Ospreys fly half the last time that the Dragons won. I'm telling you why he was 19. What, he would have been Toby in those days. He was Toby, yeah. And he had the Phil Lynott hair as well, you know. But yeah, classic Tulupe Faleta. So Dragons have not won away from home in a championship since beating Scarlett internationally. That was back in April 2022. But the good news is we have won three out of our last five fixtures against fellow Welsh regions. As for the Ospreys then, so they're 11th in the URC table and they do have an outside chance of making the top eight. But they need bonus points wins against us and Cardiff at Judgment Day and hope other results go their way. So they are still in the mix. It's a long shot, but they've got plenty to play for and they've had two very tough results against Bowles and Leinster. They conceded over 120 points and this is their last home game. So they're going to be really desperate to put on a good show for their home supporters and keep themselves in the playoff mix. So Gav, Dave Flanagan has spoken this week about going down to Swansea with nothing to lose and upsetting the Ospreys' playoff plans. How do you feel about this? Can the Dragons put a spanner in the works? Yes. Yes. Do I think they will? No. Yeah, that didn't sound convincing at all, Gav. Yes. No, of course they can. Yes, they can beat Ospreys. Are they going to? I don't know. I'm not on the Ospreys are good bandwagon. Ospreys are fine, perfectly fine. They're the best Welsh team. They definitely are. They definitely are the best Welsh team. See, the thing is, I like Ospreys, right? They are kind of my second team because, you know, you get a lot of people saying, oh, I like the Dragons. They're my second favourite team. You hear that quite a lot, don't you? Well, I would say Ospreys are mine and I really like them and I admire Toby Booth. I'm a big fan of his. I think he's a brilliant coach and I think the Ospreys have had a very good season. He irritates me. Why? What's irritating? He's like Ted Lasso. Oh, it's the find a way stuff, is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He likes coming up with find a way. But it works for them, doesn't it? Because, you know, they have found a way to win games and they've been very good. They've had great wins over Ulster, Storm was away. I like the Ospreys. I think they've done a really good job of being competitive this season. I think they should hold their heads up high whether they make the top eight or not. I personally don't think they will, but I think they've had a very good season when you consider the circumstances they've got to be in. It's just a thing with me, not like in his style, Toby, but he's done a very good job at that club and he is, you know, they are good players. My issue with Ospreys, it's a bit like Manchester United in football. Manchester United haven't been good for a decade. Ospreys haven't been good for a decade. But their fan base is, well, why would he do this? Why is an X in the team? Why is an B in the team? I just find that kind of big club mentality a bit irritating. What I've noticed is when they do well, they do seem to get a lot of bandwagon jumpers, don't they, the Ospreys? And then when they're not doing so well, you don't really see it. I like the Ospreys. They've upset Neaf. Oh, Neaf are upset themselves. They are absolutely bonkers. As I said on X, Neaf are a perfect example of why it was a terrible idea to let amateurs run the Pro Game in Wales. Those statements alone, they just show they are not fit. Amateur clubs and community clubs should not be having a say on the running of Pro Game in Wales. But I am really disenjoying how bonkers they've gone. Did you see the thing they put on X with the Osprey badge and the big red cross? That's what made me laugh. That was the thing that tickled me. The big red cross. Neaf will not be playing. The Ospreys will not be playing at the end. It really is all happening at Neaf RC. It's like, oh, dear me. Good PR, mate. They've got plenty of PR, haven't they? Ospreys won't be at the club, but there are a range of tribute bands, so come along for that. No, you're right. I think it's a bit laughable. It's a bit laughable. It's a bit embarrassing. I think it's really embarrassing, I think. Yeah, so Dragons are going down to Swansea with nothing to lose. Well, I don't like those people saying, oh, the Dragons have nothing to play for. Well, we do because we don't want to finish bottom in the USA. But don't forget, mate, we are trying to overtake the Scarlets. We are trying not to be the worst Welsh team again, so we do have something to play for. But also, as well, apparently, I mean, I think it's a very long shot, an outside chance, but we are still in contention for the Welsh Shield, I'd be told. Well, that's what Harley said on the WRAP podcast anyway, so I don't see it myself, obviously, but there is something to play for for the Dragons. It's only a couple of turns rubber. We've lost a card. I suppose technically we could do, but, you know, it'd be relying on other teams doing quite poorly. Because the Welsh Shield is just in the games between the Welsh teams, isn't it? Yeah. So we've played four. We've beaten Scarlets. We've lost a card of twice. I don't know how it works. I haven't really paid attention to the Welsh Shield, I've got to be honest with you. I would love Dragons to win it just to say they've won something, but it's not saying I've paid any attention to the Welsh Shield. But the Welsh Shield gives you a European Champions Cup place, doesn't it? No, I don't anymore. Or does it not? No, I don't, no. You only get a European place, though, if you finish in the top eight. You just get the hubcap with stickers on, if you win the Welsh Shield, which is what it is, isn't it? Yeah, they changed it so it's top eight, though, that gets a place in the Champions Cup. Which is right. Yes. It's meteorology, isn't it? It's how it should be, really. Some good news for the Dragons then, going into this game. Ben Carter is back from suspension because he missed that crucial Newport RFC game, didn't he? The one he was definitely was going to play. Oh, yeah, yeah. First name on the list. Of course. He was always going to play for the Black and Ambers. He's back from suspension, so we'll have Ben Carter back. This is great. I'm a big fan of Ben Carter. One of those players who's always undervalued and underappreciated by people from outside Dragons. But I like him. I got a lot of time for Ben Carter. And we've got Wales under-20s captain Ryan Woodman. He's back from injury, so he's going to be involved in us. And that'll be great to see him back, because he was having a really good season, wasn't he? Every time he brought the Dragons here, he was impressive. I thought he was probably our best, kind of, of the young players coming through. And was looking made for it, for me. And then, yeah, picked up that quite horrible thumb injury, didn't he? He did. So it's great to see him back. Just to say, as well, the Dragons Supporters Club, they have got space left on the bus system, so they don't have any ticket packages left that sold out. But they told me that they've got six seats left on the coach, and it's £15. So it's £15 from Newport to Swansea, there and back. So if anyone has got tickets and you're looking for travel, you can contact the Dragons Supporters Club, get in touch with them through their socials and their website. There's six seats left available, coach only, no ticket, £15 there and back. I'm going down with the Supporters Club. I got my ticket, me and Tyler are going, so I'm looking forward to it. I got actually mine for swansea.com. It's not suitable for rugby anymore. It's far too big, but for regional rugby. I think back in the day, when they had the Galacticos, it was fine. But in this day and age, where rugby is now, it's clearly too big for them, and they really do need to move, which they are now. The word is they'll go to St Helens, which I think is the right decision. That will bridge ends, but they really should stay in Swansea, I think, personally. But yeah, I'm looking forward to it. So let's get a prediction like that before you sing it. So my prediction on the WRAP podcast was I said Ospreys by 14. I just feel that Ospreys are going to give this everything. They know they have to win. They have to win with a bonus point. They can have Derby Lake available. They can have Jack Morgan available. So I think they're going to win by a couple of scores. What do you think? Are you more optimistic than I am? No. Ospreys by 10 is what I had written down earlier, and I'll stand by that. The one thing I will say about the Ospreys, they do look tired. I think they've put so much, they've had such a good season, but I do think they're starting to, in my opinion, because I do watch all the games, the regions, they do look to be running out of steam a little bit. So maybe there is an opportunity and the pressure of knowing they have to win and have to win for bonus points. That could backfire, you know, because they start doing daft things and things they wouldn't normally do. But yeah, so I've gone to 14 points. I just hope they're competitive. And what we need to do is make sure that we are strong at set piece, in particular Scrum, because we know we're going to get targeted in. But when you look at that game against the Ospreys at Rodney Parade, we were pretty rock solid in the Scrum. And that's the thing. We know we can beat the Ospreys, because we have done. We keep doing it at Rodney Parade, but what we can't do is do it in Swansea. So if we can beat them in Newport, we need to do it on the road as well, don't we? But it's going to be tight. We need to be error-free. We need to keep our discipline. I was reminded of the last time we went to Swansea, the Dragons, when Rembert I. Flandern said to the players, target the fly-off trap watch, which was the right thing to say, because he's flaky and he makes mistakes. They identify him as a weak link. The players in terms of just trying to take his head off and let the field focus on red cards. We don't want any of that nonsense going on. We don't want any red cards. Ill-disciplined. We're just playing to the Dragons. You know, red card, yellow card. It does impact us, doesn't it? So, yeah, that is a Welsh derby to go to, and then we'll have Judgement Day. We'll have Judgement Day in Cardiff, which you are going to, I believe. I have bought tickets for Judgement Day, yes. I haven't got mine yet, but I am definitely going to go, because I don't see it selling out. I'll probably get it soon. Nobody fitted in with me trying to sell my mother's house, so, you know, it's... Oh, there we are. I killed two birds with one stone. We will have to do a pod meet-up, won't we? Indeed. Live react after the game. Yeah, we could do that. Yeah, I don't mind. Okay, so, yeah, good luck to the Dragons on Saturday, and yeah, let's hope that we're competitive. The narrative is that we're just going to roll over and let Ospreys get a bonus point winner. I don't want that to happen. I do want us to put a spanner in the works. As much as I like the Ospreys, I also want to beat them as well, and I do want to upset their playoff plans, if possible. But, yeah, good luck to the Dragons. If you are going to the game, any Dragons fans travelling there, make it a short trip, have a safe journey, and enjoy the day. Garth, thank you to you, as always, for joining me. Thank you to our listeners. Please subscribe to the pod if you haven't done already. Spread the word and the love for your Dragons mates. I will be back very soon, so until then, take care and goodbye. Bye all. Thank you for listening to the Dragon's Lair podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. Please subscribe, rate and review wherever you listen to us, as it really helps spread the word. You can find us on all the usual social media channels, or email us on welshregionalrugbypod at gmail.com. And remember, whatever the question is, rugby is always the answer.