Cancel Culture

Cancel culture is the topic of discussion on this podcast. It is seen as moral policing on social media, where people can call out wrongdoings and hold others accountable. Cancel culture gives a voice to marginalized individuals and helps validate their experiences. However, there are concerns about misinformation and the lack of reliable sources. It is important to be mindful and gather evidence before supporting or canceling someone. Accountability is crucial, but it should not lead to cyberbullying or wrongful accusations. People need to be more aware and responsible when participating in cancel culture. Greetings esteemed audience and welcome to Anta Dhwani. Today we are going to discuss on the topic of cancel culture. Cancel culture can happen when somebody says something controversial or writes something controversial. So let's discuss on this topic together. Okay, so cancel culture, I feel like it's the new buzzword, especially in this Generation Z. Recently, you see, I saw this family drama which like popped up and oh my gosh, like the backslash this family received was wow. But then no one truly knew why they were actually getting cancelled. And I feel like that's where cancel culture truly plays a role. Like it leads to misinformation and sometimes people even view it as, you know, like, oh, we're giving constructive criticism. So putting a start to this podcast, Aparvicha, what do you think cancel culture is about? So you know how when Me Too movement came into picture, things were coming up on social media pages, Facebook, Instagram, everybody was on with. People were talking about their experiences or what they went through with certain really, really famous people that you would never think could do such a thing. I think cancel culture is really important in times like this, where it gives a voice to people for them to be able to point out the wrongs that have been done to them and make sure that they can gather enough people to help them support this point of that and their experience of this. So I think it really helps people in terms of the experiences that they've had, helps them validate their experiences. So I think a very important thing that we should do before we begin talking about cancel culture is giving a definition of it. So if I am speaking about it, I see cancel culture as more of a moral policing that exists in social media, because social media is a platform where there aren't any barriers or there aren't any rules or regulations against what people can say. Yes, you can hide certain content, but you are still able to view it. For instance, there was a very recently a very famous singer, she made a lot of fat shaming allegations and anti weight allegations because of which she's facing a lawsuit right now. I think that is the most prime example that I can say when I talk about our cancel culture is for the masses for those people who might not be that well to do or might not be that powerful to reach those people who are at such a peak that they don't even have to fear anything about it. For instance, when a woman from the royal family of British, she was facing a lot of controversy because of her marriage. She came to a British news channel and there the main journalist, he said a lot of discriminatory and racist remarks towards this woman because of her color. The next day, something around like 57 to 60,000 personal handwritten letters came to that British news channel because of which the person had to be fired. Now, imagine a time where cancel culture wasn't that important, such a thing would never have ever happened. Yeah, I totally agree with you. Cancel culture makes people accountable, like Pavitra said that it provides a platform to the marginalized voices to speak out and like about their injustice that they face and you know, the powerful people, individuals and institutions accountable for their actions. Three years back, if I'm not wrong, there was a celebrity who was cancelled for cyber bullying in Twitter. So her tweets were retweeted. And that's when cancel culture came in. And I think that hold her accountable and she had to apologize to the victim. So yeah, talking about Twitter, I feel like it happens a lot in platforms of social media. Sometimes you know, what happens is the public, they don't know the true reason behind why someone is being cancelled. But then they would confirm and under the influence, they would be supporting or going against this particular brand or it can even be a celebrity for a thing. Like, you know, we like to study about the Solomon Asher's experiment of confirmative bias, right? Cancel culture is a great example of this. Because once I saw like this video where this person was explaining the main issue, well, he got let's say 100 views, but a person who made an interpretation of his video, they got around more than 100 views and people were confirming to their interpretation more than the real issue. So yeah, so we must we as public also must keep this in mind when we are dealing with such issues. But what about people? Like Arnav said about moral policing. People are not trained for policing someone. When cancel culture gives power to people, people who are not trained, policemen are trained for moral policing. They are individual of adult age. But what about moral policing on online platform and cancel culture? You don't know who people who are on social media are trying to spread the information that cancels that celebrity or cancels that guy. Are they trained enough to do moral policing? What about misinformation? Moral policing is exactly the opposite of that. It's not when you say when you say that somebody is a moral police, it's a negative connotation that is being used instead of a positive one. It means that you don't know where you stand. And who are you to question other person's actions? So how can because morals? Sure, yes, models. There are certain norms for which on which models are based. But then regardless of that, every person will make a decision as per their own set of circumstances, their own situation. So you cannot be a third person policing their models. So it's used in a negative connotation, for one. And sure, when you say that people cannot take the stand and question other people's actions or behaviors, and that is why cancel culture doesn't work. But if not people, then who? Because it is people who are at the end of the day doing certain things that may cause harm to other people, emotional, physical, howsoever, somebody has to take a stand. And when one person takes a stand, it is only then when people come together to have a consensus about what is right and what is wrong. So that is why cancel culture plays a really important role. Even yes, as Ankita mentioned, it is really important to be mindful and aware of what resources you support and what evidence you gather. But just on the basis of what we are watching could be wrong. We cannot say that somebody, for example, in a me too movement is talking about their experiences, we can't say that they're lying or they're faking their experience. And sometimes saying that these situations can also be taken in the wrong context. Like people don't really become aware about what is actually happening. And they're just feeding into the gossip. You know, and I think it talks about accountability, but accountability can easily transform into cyber bullying. And bullying in this way is not justified at all. And sometimes people are even wrongly accused of this, which, which makes them hard to come out, you know, because they don't have the point of redemption, they cannot even say sorry, because there's so much in that hatred. And so I think people need to be more aware about the situation before talking about it. Adding on to Vanshi, I feel like it often happens that even when someone is getting cancels, they post like a sorry video or something like that, right? They apologize for the issue. Vanshi, what you said, made me think of misinformation. You said the right thing. But what about misinformation? What about people not having the right information, right, not having the right sources of information? What we do in scientific research, our teachers tell us to believe on reliable sources, while reliable sources, because those are the practical way or the logical way of getting the right information from. So, when we are, we are given power to people in cancel culture, and which leads to a very big consequence, which can destroy someone's life or which can viral someone or something like that. If you are giving so much power to someone, those people who are using that power should be responsible enough to use that power in a responsible way. If they are not having the proper right information, in under the influence of misinformation, how are they going to cancel a right or wrong person? How are they going to decide it? That was what I was talking about. You talked about misinformation. So I was saying that people are not aware of the situation and there are certain sources which you need to really see which sources are legible, you know, because there are some sources that there are certain political leaders, there are certain news channels that follows, that follows one party, you know, they favor one party, they favor one values and so we need to find the sources that are legible. Okay, but I mean, when you say that you need to find reliable sources, and what if there are not, what if there are the sources that are available are not reliable enough? It's on the person who is researching, it's their responsibility to know that the sources that you're using are reliable, that the sources that you're using are correct, and appropriate, and they justify what actually happened. So when you talk about the current ongoing conflict as well, between nations, you would notice how a lot of the brands which support one side have been boycotted. There are reasons for this to be happening. And when you decide, just on the basis that sources might not be reliable, you would, you would not take a stand, which would be a right stand to take, politically speaking. Adding to that, when you say that people are not responsible enough to have all this power. In actuality, it is those people, it is that masses that are directly affected by what people say and what policies are made. So if we take even that power away from them, that they are able to put something that might have hurt their sentiment or the community sentiment out there, then that completely rips them of any power and just become people who are so economically or financially poor that they're not able to say anything. So in regards to that, I think cancel culture, even if a wrong information might be spreading out there, there are fans of the person who are supporting them. If I'm canceling a person A, the person A is bound to have their own fans, and they will support them. And if I'm canceling a person B, the person B is bound to have their own fans, and they will support them. Haven't we seen numerous examples where a person is clearly in the wrong, but there are still people supporting them. So it's not as if a person is completely pushed to the side, or someone is completely pushed above. So I think in regards to that, it is kind of a debate more than putting them in a jail or putting them in handcuffs. Like you said, it's like when there are certain fans of a celebrity or a politician, you know, there are followers. And here when something is said wrong, then there's like, this empowerment is given to the followers. So they speak out. And that's where like, people are given the voices to speak out the truth and the misinformation that are going up in and about. That's a great point. But I feel like we should also put a draw line when it comes to cancel culture, because sometimes maybe it goes too far. Let's say a person, I mean, we are human beings, and we are bound to make mistakes. But then holding them accountable for your entire life, I don't think that is quite right. So what happens mostly in this generation, specifically, even though the celebrity or even though the specific brand is apologizing for the mistake, we are still not acknowledging their apology. And we still tend to hold them accountable and still try to bring up the issue again and again. So even though they have posted 1000 apologies, it doesn't actually meet the public, we are not satisfied with it. Regardless of how much the greater impact it has. I mean, we should acknowledge that maybe this person has gone through a growth, maybe this person has understood, because then what comes is cancel culture does not will not provide a scope for improvement, whereas we need to incorporate that as well. I do get your point, Ankita, that it's not right to hold people accountable for their entire life. But when we start talking about issues that have been going on through through a lot of through very many years in history, and when we talk about geopolitics, and we talk about issues like racism, and we talk about issues like discrimination, it is important to hold people accountable. Because these are not decisions that you make one day when you're not feeling good. These are decisions that you've probably well thought about. So it is important to hold people accountable. So that they know what they're saying and what they're doing has implications that are greater than that. For example, when Kanye West got canceled about him, his anti semitic comments and his anti semitic comments. And so sure, yes, there are still fans supporting him. There are still people who do listen to his music, he's still making money, he's still successful. But at least it's out there that what he's talking about and the comments that he makes has an impact. And the impact was that he ended up losing his contract with Adidas, which was about Yeah, so I also think people from privileged leave here, they are left out. Kanye West is still going on his music, everybody's listening to his music. And people are not even aware about this, you know, whatever you just said. And this reminds me also that women are also at a more disadvantage than men. Because if you know the Korean industry, there's, if some scandal happens, the woman is targeted first. And it's like, and she's not given the thing of redemption even, she doesn't have the time to apologize. And if a person apologizes, they're even targeted even more. Why did she said that? Why did he said that? I think people cancel because it sometimes gives into more of the personal life of people. And it's and they ignore the main societal issues that are going on in the world. So I think in regards to holding people accountable for a long period of time, how no matter how much we say that these people are just normal human beings, the fact of the matter is that they're not, they are people who these are people who millions and millions of people look up to them, they copy their style, they copy their way of walking, they copy what they're saying. Now imagine if a person on that power is saying very harmful comments against a certain policy or against a certain community, people will follow them blindly. And that can lead to a lot of can lead to a lot of violence and lead to a lot of controversies. So in regards to that, when a person is held accountable, they have to be held accountable for a long period of time. So they know that despite their wealth or power, they have to apologize. And yes, yes, they apologize. And after that, they're still held against it. But people, when their sentiments get hurt, they can't be a timeframe put on how long it takes for them to be okay with it. Because a person can be hurt in more ways than just on comments on Instagram or something. They can be hurt in other ways. Also, it's up to them on how they will forgive the person and people are forgotten celebrities who were previously villainized or previously were mocked after a few movies or after a few series, they are viewed in a good light. And don't you think this really impacts their mental health? Like it makes them people physically also mentally also this really affects their mental health. So when people are victims like Kanye West, when Kanye West made anti semitic remarks, this really hurt the sentiments of Jews. And this and as we can see with the ongoing Palestine and Israel, their conflicts also like both people parties, Kanye West remarks, or anti semitic remarks on the Jews also really impacted the mental health of the Jews, like I said, and even with the ongoing conflicts of Palestine and Israel, both parties, you know, they, they're going through so much their mental health or being affected. So I think we should think about, you know, talk about more on mental health. So in regards to mental health, I think answer culture plays a very, very direct connection with mental health, because people are not being hurt physically, because the first approach when it comes to cancer culture are negative comments, be it on a social media platform or be reviews or being anything like that. So it's just that people when a lot of masses say something bad about a person, even if that fact is not true, they will tend to believe that in the end. Now, yes, people's mental health are being affected. But we have to see in these cases, where more good is being done as compared to where less harm is being done. Yes, if you take the example of Kanye West, we can also argue that Kanye's mental health might also have been affected, but that guy is sitting on millions of dollars. Now he is mentally getting affected. It's fine. He's still super rich and his sales are doing great. Now let's talk about those people whose sentiments were hurt. They are not that well to do. They are not that powerful. Now, I think it is better to focus on their mental health. It is better to focus on the people to whom harm has been done rather than arguing against those who are being cancelled. But I think that sometimes they take it too far. I think cancel culture is made for making people accountable. But like, for example, some cricketer does not make enough runs or a movie does not do that good. So that is not only accountable. That's a very minor issue. They are also human beings. I think somebody mentioned that we are humans, we are bound to make mistakes. And they do not give the space for them for free expression. It's creativity at the end of the day. So I think cancel culture is important, but I think it's also lacks creativity. And a person should be given the space to put out their opinions. And sometimes people get too scared due to cancel culture and the atmosphere. When you guys were talking about your opinions, I was crying. My eyes were wet. And it feels like, you know, you know what, I am that that person who compares himself with the protagonist of the movie. When you were all talking about the kind of West and the stars. And when you were you reminded about the when people do something and then people cancel them. I reminded about the movie, Suck the India, Shah Rukh Khan, hockey. And I was imagining if something like this happens with me. I will be in the bed crying with inside the blanket and it's going to be very depressive for me if if my work that I'm supposed to do. And I wasn't able to do it correctly. And people are just criticizing me for that thing. And it's too emphasized and overemphasized. People are not understanding my situation and they are just putting up their point. And then they are canceling me. It's going to really, really, going to affect me badly. See, like, it is true when they I feel like sometimes the criticisms are so harsh that it is really hard to hard for a person to overcome it and then follow up with a daily lifestyle. Now, this is where amplification of voices can also play a role like people feel like in social media because their faces and their presence physically is not being seen. They feel like their voices are amplified. And in a way, the criticisms, even the compliments, let's say, this thing was not that nice, can sound much more harsher when we mention it in a social media post, your social media comments. So that's how I feel like it impacts the mental health as well. Coming back to mental health, I feel like it's it does take a toll on our physical health as well, because this person is not able to function. I mean, thousands of apologies. And this person is still not able to follow up with the final, the normal lifestyle because of I mean, they would still I mean, the public can forgive. Let's say the public can forgive. But then even if they take a normal walk to the grocery store, they feel like their eyes are still on the person. That's how it impacts them. And just if we go to an extent and it takes a physical, I mean, a physical toll on them, mental health does take a physical toll on the person. Hence, I feel like we should have some kind of boundary in a way or to what extent we make our comments, even as public. I mean, cancer social provides a great platform for even marginalized voices, agreed and even for the general public to say, like, express their opinion. But to what extent does that I mean, without doing any harm to the who are without doing harm to the ones that we want to convey. All of your opinions and thoughts on cancer culture made me think. And I realized that cancer culture is neither bad or good. It is something it's a power. It's a power of people. It's a power of mass. And there is a simple quote at a lot of schools that with power comes responsibility. Great powers comes with a great responsibility, a power that needs to be used mindfully and critically. And every individual entity that is involved in having that power, it should they should be engaged in fact checking. These days, every YouTuber, every every person on the media is saying that, take your own facts, like do your own research. They're saying it to encourage you to involve in your fact checking by yourself. And it is really important in today's world because it is really required. A lot of misinformation spread is there. And a general global and local awareness is required to so that you could understand that which source is reliable and which source is not. It is really crucial in today's time with the awareness of your own biasness. You know, people, we are in psychology and in practices, in our practices, we know that if we know about our own biasness, we would be aware that how we should treat our patients. And in research also, you know, our teacher, our teacher told us in qualitative research that how a researcher is a tool. Why a researcher is a tool? Because if a researcher did a single mistake, it's going to affect the whole research and their biasness are going to affect the quality of the research. So if we are aware of our own biasness, we would be aware of our own weaknesses and aware of your own weakness is choosing your own strength. And it is about consequentialism. Think about the consequentialism that how your actions are going to affect what what are the consequences of your actions. The like this cancel culture is giving you so much power that you can destroy someone's life. What about celebrities? Their life can be destroyed and you as an individual have the power in your mass that you can control and you can save someone's life just by fact checking. So in a way, we can say that as much as a person has their right to freedom, right to express their voices, we should also give them the right for improvement and right for their self development, make giving them a safe space, not just for the individual development, but then the development of the society in general, so that they are also free to voice their opinions. And the people are also taking the criticisms in a constructive way and making improvements, making self improvement. Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. I think considering every point that was made, I think we've had a very insightful discussion about what cancel culture holds and the impact of what it can do to very real people. Yeah.