bg-episode-14_recording-1_2024-06-12--t09-53-33pm--davidbarrkirtley

Okay, now it should be, now it's recording. Okay, oh my gosh. This is also the first time I'm doing this on my own, so I'm learning with you, I'm learning with you. Okay, I know, that's why I love Scorpios. My brother's a Scorpio, and it's also super chill and fun every time we're together. Okay, round two. Hi everyone, Bianca Perez here, live from the basement. You're listening to a horror and whatnot podcast that covers film and literature across the genre. My other basement girly, Steph, won't be joining us today. She's like super pregnant, but don't fret because you got a visitor. I'm here with Christian DeCoyer, a poet and teaching artist from Tennessee, to chat about Jason Goes to Hell, the final Friday. I first met Christian at AWP at Kansas City this past February, it was early this year. And you were on a panel about horror and poetics and things of that nature. And of course, I saw that on the panelists, and I was like, I gotta go to that. So I went, heard what Christian had to say about how horror plays into his poetics. He read some of your work, and I was just like a instant poetry crush, you know what I mean? Walked up to you and asked if you would be interested in coming on to the podcast, and you were like 100% with it. So I'm glad, it's a long time coming. And I trust that right now we are in fact recording, this is our second chance right here. I kinda, I feel so bad. You were like really into it, and then I'd be like, eh, wait a minute. So once again, Christian, could you tell the people about you, your relationship to poetry and horror, and why you chose for us to talk about Jason Goes to Hell, the final Friday? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Me too! Yeah. Same. Yeah. Yeah, she's open to it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Paranormal state, wow, I forgot about that, mm-hmm. Not yet, not yet, mm-hmm. Not yet, not yet, mm-hmm. Ah! Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm. Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, awesome, I mean, so yes, I was gonna say that really my experience with Friday the 13th specifically, like, so I, same here, like my brother introduced me into horror at a very young age, saying like five, six, with like child's play, which is probably why I'm like really fucked up in the head now. But same with my mom being like very, very Catholic, and I feel like I can sense like our similarities in our poetics too, because, I mean, I read through your chapbook, The Gleaming of the Blade, which we will definitely get into later on in the episode, where you have, yeah, like the horror images, but also like very like Catholic-based images as well, which I obviously gravitate towards, so I can see those inspirations coming through your work, so it's very interesting to kind of hear it from your mouth, that that's like literally your life and what you're like coming out from. But yeah, so yeah, like you mentioned, we did do an episode, it's episode number 11, it's our summer camp horror episode, where we kind of dove into Friday the 13th, where, you know, arguably Jason was just human at that point and not superhuman, because yeah, I don't think I've watched any other installments now that I'm thinking about it, other than that first one that we had watched for the episode 11, and then now this one. So, I mean, what other, what's your experience with Friday the 13th movies? Mm-hmm, seriously, yeah. Oh, my gosh, uh-huh. Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Okay, obviously your imagination's gonna run wild, yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right, yes, which is what I'll ask you about for sure, because I think you especially, given like, and again, we'll talk about this, but with your AWP speech that you said for the panel, I mean, you kind of touched on that a bit, about how like, horror movies are essentially a reflection of society of the time. So, I definitely wanna ask you about that, but before we get into that discussion, so, you know, I wanna give just a little bit of a foundation knowledge that Jason Goes to Hell, the final Friday, was released in 1993. The director is Adam Marcus. This is the ninth installment of the Friday the 13th. Jason Voorhees' world, which is just crazy to think about, that's so many, then later it was, and then it turned, what, Jason X was the next one, and then we get into like, Freddy versus Jason, so all of that comes up later. So yeah, this one is categorized not just as horror, but as fantasy, and I can, I mean, I can see why, right? We get those like, kind of more like, magical realism fantasy vibes from this one, more of like, the witchcrafty sort of elements, but yeah, to your point, Christian, that this was the second worst performing film in the series, and honestly, like, I mean, I wanna hear your thoughts, but I didn't think it was that bad. Mm, I can see that, I can see that, yeah. Mm, mm-hmm, true. Yeah, yeah. Mm, mm-hmm, true. Mm, mm-hmm, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, right, he played Jason in the two before this, right? So in the, Jason goes to Manhattan, or takes Manhattan, or whatever, and then, what was the other one? Oh, okay, seven of them. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay, yeah, that makes sense with the context of it from before, yeah. And for our listeners that aren't aware, yeah, Kane Hodder is the one that plays Jason, and he's also, I saw that he's credited as one of the FBI agents, also comes up a little cameo, and then he's also Freddy Krueger in the end of this one, so, I mean, also cool to know, but probably to save money, I would suspect, but no, I really did enjoy this one, honestly, and I think, too, like, there's something to be said about us in 2024, like, watching a horror slasher movie from the 90s, like, our expectations are not high, like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not sitting there, gonna watch a slasher film from 1993, being like, I need this to blow my fucking mind, like, no, I just want it to be fun, I want to, like, laugh a little bit, you know, like, I want, I just want to be entertained, and I think this is, I mean, this movie did that for me, and so I'm okay with that, you know what I mean? Yeah, and so, Christian, can you just summarize the movie a little bit for us real quick, if you can? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, seriously. Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jessica, yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Robert Campbell, right, the, is he like the, like a newscaster sort of character? Yeah. Right, right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I wanted to ask you about him. So does his character, and again, you're kind of like going to fill me in a little bit and our listeners, is his character in one of the movies before this, or? Oh, oh, it kind of felt like it was. Interesting. Oh. Oh, like revenge. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, okay, that makes way more sense because with that scene where Creighton Duke is at the diner already, like, yeah, I believe in Camp Crystal Lake or, you know, that town, and Robert Campbell comes up to him, right, to like, wait, now I'm confused. Well, he like wants him to help him out, right, to like get Jason back to kind of the area, right? Or no, it's before, it's before, right? Yeah, yeah. There you go, yes, and I was just like, okay, wait, how did that, what happened? Like, I was like, I guess I'm missing something from some movies before, but you're telling me no, like, you know, that that's just, so that makes a lot more sense, but I just, that's probably one of my favorite scenes, though, in the part where, like, you know, Robert Campbell's like, I'm gonna say a couple words to you and, you know, you tell me the first thing that comes to mind, and he, and, you know, he's like Jason Voorhees and Creighton Duke's like, that makes me think of a little girl in a pink dress sticking a hotdog through a donut, and I'm like, what the fuck? I'm like, okay, this is, mm-hmm, we're gonna get the funnies, this is funny. So much, yeah. No real reason, yeah. Yeah, let's get into it. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Literally, yeah. Yep. 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I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, you weren't really thinking about it. Mm-hmm, yep. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep, seriously. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Right. Right. That's so true. Uh-huh. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Yeah, I get that. Mm-hm. Because it's like, you think we're dumb? Like we wouldn't pick up on these things? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, literally. Mm-hm. There's none of that, yeah. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Yeah. He didn't catch on with that, yeah. And that, I think, that says a lot about, like, Hollywood and the fact that really all they really care about is just pushing out movies and making sure that at least they get something from the box office. And so, yeah, like, attention to story, attention to narrative, kind of filling up those plot holes just doesn't really – it's like kind of a back burner for them. And so, yeah, I do see that being, like – I mean, when it comes to our podcast, like, because Steph and I, especially Steph coming from a fiction pro standpoint, I mean, her and I definitely like to hit on story as much as possible because, I mean, essentially as writers, we are building stories. We're essentially, like, I guess directors of our own volition, right, because we are trying to create tone. We're wanting things to be seen for – we're wanting to show something to our readers. And so the best way that we could do that, we try to do that, right? I mean, I'm sure you can relate to that, being a writer yourself. Yeah. I mean, and how do you – because when I think of, like, good story, especially right now, you know, like movies that are – especially horror, right, that are coming out, I'm thinking, like, A24. That seems to be, like, really the opportunity for great storytelling but also, like, not only script-wise but, like, just on the screen. But I think, you know, in the 90s – I'm not trying to, like, say that the 90s should have been on the A24s, you know, shit, because I know it was a very different time. But I'm just saying that there has been a change there when it comes to creating narrative, for sure. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that. I love that. I think that goes into kind of the next thing that I wanted to talk to you about because, like I mentioned, I was present during your panel at AWP, and then I definitely wanted to kind of read through what you had. So thank you for sending me your speech. But, yeah, I wanted to – and I'm going to throw out some quotes at you. I'm going to, like – so sorry about that. But to kind of your point, I think – and you start off your speech with talking about how somebody had asked you how to keep horror fresh, right, how to keep that, like, to your point, that longevity. And, quote, you said, So I think it would be amazing if you talked about just if you want to kind of write on this quote a little bit, tell us more about it, and how you feel like, yes, like horror is the real world, especially – I mean, you know, now since then, definitely we've gotten to see how an act of genocide appears before us, you know, with what's happening in Palestine and Gaza. So can you talk a little bit more about that? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right, right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it's too real or whatever, yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so a few – first of all, thank you for that. And a few questions kind of popped up from what you said. So what do you think then, like if we – I know maybe they didn't mean for us to really dive deep into Jason Goes to Hell, but if we're kind of using the same framework of like, okay, we're thinking that horror is kind of a mirror of society of the time, if you had to guess, what do you feel like is the bigger message for Jason Goes to Hell? Okay, awesome. Right. Okay. Okay, yeah. Okay. Okay. Mm, true. Have a kid. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay, right, right. Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm, yeah. They're like trauma bonded at that point in the end. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Right. Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Dude, she hesitated so long. I was like, girl, what are you doing? She really thought about it, honestly. Yes. Thanks for reminding me about that scene. Yeah, what did he do? Yeah, no, seriously. You're really going to let your baby daddy go down the hill with Jason Voorhees? You're going to hesitate, really? Yeah, I definitely would have been like, the fuck, what are you doing? And, I mean, also, I mean, I'm like half kidding, but he also could have gone with that girl that went with her, like had a little, she was like a third wheel, you know? He could have definitely gone with her. He invited her to essentially have sex with her, and he said no. I feel like that deserves to not, that person deserves not to go to hell. But I'll think about it. Okay, fine, I'll leave you. Yeah. She's not the most likable character, I will say. Yeah, but, right. Yeah, right. Yeah. Okay, so I want to also bring up another quote from your speech, and you can go ahead and type it in the chat. Yeah, right. Yeah. Okay, so I want to also bring up another quote from your speech, and you touched on it a little bit when you mentioned get out, but I just wanted to kind of expand on that just a little bit. So here's this quote from your speech. I feel like Hollywood horror has also been interested in pushing against tropes recently, and that's because it's not just about the I feel like Hollywood horror has also been interested in pushing against tropes recently, and that pursuit has given us some great thought-provoking films, so you mentioned get out, and then you also mentioned the angry black girl and her monsters, which I'm not familiar with, so it'd be great if you talked about that. But I'd like for you to kind of talk about the tropes, traditional tropes that you did see when it came to blackness and horror, and how you feel like these movies, specifically get out, the angry black girl and her monsters, might have gone against those traditional tropes. Right. Right. Right. Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. I know white zombie too is another traditional depiction of blackness. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Do you see, like, Jason goes to hell as maybe riding on, like, the edge of, like, maybe pursuing the same traditional tropes when it comes to blackness, but also maybe switching it up a little bit? Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Yeah, I know. I know. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you do mention, I want to kind of bring us back around to your chapbook, The Gleaming of the Blade, because you do mention a character from Jason Takes Manhattan, Julius Gahl, right? And I'd like, if you can, I'd love for you to read it for us. And then afterwards, maybe tell us a little bit more about your interest on this character specifically. Yeah. Honestly, it's for the texture. This is ASMR. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I also wanted to ask you, just because I'm interested just as a poet myself, why do you choose to put fashuras in the places that you do? Like what is happening in your mind, those spaces that you decide to put? For sure. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah, seriously. I'm just thinking of possession because we just talked about Jason goes to hell and the fact that he possesses people. But I like your reasoning behind the, you know, the breath that you put down on the page because it is somewhat of like the poet possessing the reader because we are wanting them to take the breath as we take the breath. And I love that idea a little bit. So, listeners, if you enjoyed what you heard, which I'm sure you did, if you got the chills just like I did, you can buy Christian's chapbook. Again, the title is The Gleaming of the Blade. It's just $14.95. What, only $14.95? And you can purchase it at BullCityPress.com. Also, badass cover, by the way. Mm-hmm. I bet. I bet. Well, I mean, I'm just so, so happy to see what you're doing out there. And I kind of wanted, because I really liked, again, kind of going back to your speech, I wanted to end off our episode with just throwing these questions that you also, you know, threw out at the end of your panel. And I want to throw these out to our listeners. Who are the monsters in your lives? In what ways have you been a monster to yourself or others? Who is someone that has terrified or haunted you, possessed their voice? I'm just going to leave it at that, leave it at that. So, Christian, tell us how we can keep up with you. What's, like, next on your writing agenda? What's going on with you? Tell us. Yeah, seriously. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Mm. I love that. Yeah, for sure. Are you? That's cool. That's cool. Oh, my gosh. I low-key wish we had gotten you for Texas State. Wait, are you, like, are you at an MFA already or are you just applying? Okay, awesome. Okay. Okay, well, I'll definitely, you know, I'm going to be a fan always, Christian, seriously. And I'm going to just keep you in mind for anything that I see that comes up at Texas State. Because, yeah, our MFA definitely, I think, is leaning more towards the speculative horror kind of, like, aspects in writing. And I'm always trying to, like, see who we can bring that, you know, our students will see themselves in, you know what I mean? But, yeah, no, I'm definitely big applause to you and all that you've done and all that you are doing and all that you will do. Again, I'm going to be a fan over here in Texas, like, hello, I really like your writing. But thank you so much, Christian, for joining me today in the basement. How did you like the basement? Was the basement good? That's a good, I think that's the perfect way to end it off. All right, Christian, thanks so much. Bye, everybody. Okay, great job. Okay, so I'm going to go ahead and stop recording on Zoom, so you can go ahead and do the same thing. Okay, and then I'm going to stop recording on Zencaster. And I'm going to stop.