Bunter Granchildren and Reflections

Leslie John Forbes discusses various topics in this conversation. He talks about his day-to-day life, which involved working as a driver and managing his children's busy schedules. He also mentions his social life, which revolved around basketball and the friends he met through his children's activities. He then talks about his three children and how each of them had different personalities and experiences growing up. He then shares the traumatic experience of finding out he had cancer and the subsequent surgeries and chemotherapy treatments he underwent. Despite the challenges, he reflects on the things he had accomplished in life and his determination to fight the illness. Leslie John Forbes. How are you today? I am well. That's good to hear. It was nice having breakfast with you this morning. The breakfast was okay. So we talked last time about when you first moved into your childhood and when you first moved into Fort Trussell. So talk to me about, you've moved into the new place, you've got this new job at Tate, life seems to be going pretty well. You mentioned Tate had that new, you've enjoyed that role, got three children all living in the house. Talk to me about day-to-day life. What was it like? What was the typical week in the life of Les Paul? So I'm in Trussell. Why? That's about the era when I got the job, that of a driver. As children started playing sports and it was non-stop driving to one training venue after another, to one sporting event after another, totally non-stop. Christopher knocked the volume originally, the two girls want to make combined sides, etc., etc., and everything. So yep, we got to be taxi drivers as well as accountant, as well as a lecturer and it was so hectic. But during that time, I was still managing to play golf two to three times a week, Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays for a while. But yeah, so that time and like the previous years and the following years, we had to live within a budget of what came in, but there was more regular income coming in. The income coming in was more regular. There wasn't more of it really, but we managed. And what about your social life during that time? At that time, social life didn't change that much. It's always been built. It got interfered with because of basketball because that took up every Saturday, Sunday, a couple of training sessions a week and one game a week at night when a combined side wanted to play at night somewhere. So yeah, a lot of it revolved around basketball. That's where we met some of the people who became good friends for a reasonable amount of time. It's where we met Bev and Max Rayner. We met Max, Bev Rayner because Rachel played with Mel and we met the McMahons and the Jacksons because they played with Jenny and they became an interwoven part of our life. So yeah, so that's what our social life was. It was hanging around kids, sporting events, probably could have got a reputation as a paedophile, the number of children sporting events I'll say then. What about your three children? What do you remember most about each of them? And you can talk about as a child or teenager, whatever you think is appropriate, but maybe start with Mel. What do you remember most about Mel or what are your fondest memories? If I think about Mel and Jen, Mel was the older daughter. Mel got to carry the responsibilities of being the older daughter more than Jennifer did. So your first child is going to be perfect. I would say Mel had the strictest upbringing. Jen wouldn't have mattered, she would have done what she liked and Chris still does what he likes, certainly. But no, the whole three were different. Mel was probably the more quiet and reserved, but that's because she's the eldest child and was told to stay in the corner. Children should be seen and not heard. All of the rules of our childhood, Bev's and mine, came into being with Mel. After your first child, you're too tired. So your second and third, your second gets away with a little, your third gets away with everything. So I think that's traditionally how it happens. I think most of the families you'll ever talk to have the same problem. Your first child, sit there and not make a noise. We used to go to my mother's. I'd threaten the kids with beatings if they didn't behave when my mum says. I don't know that my mother would agree with those rules, but it's irrelevant. That's the way it was. Yep, that's it. And then you found out that you had cancer. That probably was the most traumatic day of my life. I had a pain in my left arm. And went to my life, is this opposed to the pain in the arse that you were carrying around? I had a pain in my left arm and I went to the doctor and he had a feel around and said, oh, we'd better get an ultrasound of this. So I relatively diligently went and got an ultrasound. And the result of the ultrasound was perfectly clear. So I accepted that because it was the news I wanted to hear. And so I went back to the doctor with the results. He said, we still don't like it. We'll have to get it checked out. But there wasn't an urgency attached to that because the ultrasound was all clear. So I didn't really race around and get the first possible appointment. But then I was starting school holidays or something. I thought, we'll get an appointment. So I got an appointment and I went and saw the doctor, the specialist. And he grabbed me by the nut and said, that's got to come out. And I was somewhat shocked. I said, are you sure? He said, the ultrasound's clear. He said, I don't care what the ultrasound is. I'm booking you in. This is, say, Friday. I'm booking you in for Monday, surgery. And I said, what are you doing? He said, well, if you were younger, we might try shading it. But you've already had a vasectomy. You're not worried about children. It's not going to make a difference to you. Might as well come out. I was sort of shocked because of the text to it. And he said, so I'll book you in. I said, but what about the ultrasound again? He booked me an ultrasound for that afternoon somewhere else. He said, I'll send you to a real one. I haven't been home yet, but then I'll skip to when I went to the next ultrasound. Lying on a bed, the bloke said, look up there. And he said, see all that black lining around there? That's it. It's got to come out. So that was it. So yeah, got sent to a proper ultrasound. So that was it. You find out Thursday or Friday, you're having an operation Monday morning time. Is that right? Because if it is, I'm not going to be the one responsible. So getting back to the situation, I'm at the doctor and he tells me it's coming out Monday. So now the doctor is in Glingarri. So I'll just sit there talking to him for a little while, not crying much about anything. Went out, got in the car, got straight out at Glingarri Drive, drove up the road at a hundred metres or so, pulled up the road and cried. I had to go home and tell my family I've got cancer. And in that day and age, it was nearly like a death sentence. Anyhow, gathered the courage up, went home, told mum I had it. And this was on what, the Friday, whatever, the first, yeah, Friday before the Monday. There was no time in between, which may be shitty about the weeks I'd let go between the ultrasound and the specialist appointment. So there I am, I got to tell them, mum, and I'm going to say yes. Sitting there feeling sorry for myself and look back and tell again. I reconciled it. By then, we had been to Bali, the big kids, we'd been various places. And then I was feeling sorry for myself, but I came to the realisation that I only had one thing I hadn't done. And that was Chris was 16 and had to finish high school. The girls were, in unity, doing well, because they always did do it. They were doing well. They were finished. We'd really been in a relatively comfortable house. I had life insurance and a suit. But the only job that I hadn't finished, I did not look back at any stage and think about what haven't I done? I didn't look back and say, oh, I haven't had a chance to do this or that. Because essentially, I'd done everything I'd wanted to, in a way. And so there was no feeling of regret about that. And then we went through the traumatic experience of operations and chemo and that, and I'm still there. And so because the... I don't know about the chronology of everything that happened, but because the cancer had spread, you then later needed to get quite a significant operation. And going into that, there was a pretty good chance or a reasonable chance you might not make it. Okay. So this story I've told many times. I go and have the operation, say, on the Monday. Even better, the Friday, because I am who I am, that Friday night is still at the pub. So I go to the Kareem Hotel for drinks with the boys, and I tell them up front when I'm there. And then they were helpful with comments like, well, don't buy any green tomatoes and comments like that. So yeah, we got through that. Then I went out after the operation, that was Monday in hospital, left testicle removed. It's not a big or a bang. After I got over that, six weeks later when that wound is healed, got to go and see the oncologist for chemo because they tested the testicle and found out, yes, it did have an aggressive cancer in it. So go out and an X-ray had shown that it spread to the lymph nodes. So go and see the chemo boy because I'm sitting in a surgery with about 12 people in it, or 16 even. And go in and see, and he tells me, you're going to go on chemo. He said, but there's a 75% chance you'll get through it. Being me, I equated that to 25% chance I won't get through it. And there's 16 people in this surgery. Four of us are going to be dead soon. So that wasn't how I... I didn't look at 12 of us are going to be living. My mental attitude was more along the lines of, four of these people are going to die. So start chemo, which is probably the worst experience of my life. Going to hospital, everybody around me, when I'm getting treated, everybody else is done with plastic everywhere. All the people who come in, plastic on them. They're endangered sites and they're pumping this stuff into you and they say, now if that shifts or indeed, let us know because it'll leak. Yeah, I'm not able to do anything. And they want to terrorise you with having to worry about it. And little thing that just don't remember. And each time you went in, came out, your health ran down, came back a bit. And as soon as you got back healthy, you went in and got another dose. Mine was three days in hospital, pumped into you continuously. It wasn't one needle every month and was three days plastic danger signs. So all the hair fell out. I probably lost a lot. I lost a lot of weight. And the test kept showing the chemo wasn't working. So we got to the end of the chemo run, went to bed five months. And the lump that was in my back, in one of the lymph nodes, had gone from the size of a golf ball to the size of an orange. And then they said, you have to have a cut out. Well, we suggested you have it cut out. And so the bloke who had done the original surgery, because it was his area, urologist, went back to see him and he said, there's only one bloke in WA does this, has ever done it. You have to go and see him. So I went and saw this bloke and this bloke just proceeded to yell at me and say, why did you go to chemo? You should have always had it cut out first while all the tissues were good. So you're on your deathbed and you die. And you had two ultra qualified specialists telling you you should do something different. And how as an individual you have to make that decision. It's tricky. So anyway, we agreed to that operation. Turns out then that operation was major. It was huge. At the time, they told me that it was the longest scheduled operation ever had at St. John of Gotts Mill. The longest operation. But they scheduled it for eight or 10 hours. So it's a big operation. And I'm there and I chemo. They're not the chemo man. The bloke is going to knock me out, an etiologist or whatever you are. He said, now are you sure you're going to do this? You want to do this? He said, the amount of stuff will pump into you. It's going to take you a long time to get over it. Are you absolutely sure you want to do this? What was the alternative? Not do it. And then what about it? Then there was another part, because the diagnosis of the lump, however they did, they wouldn't go in and take a sample of the orange. They wouldn't go in and take a sample just in case it spread because of tampering. Because the bloke who had diagnosed it says, yes, it's possibly cancerous. But its consistency is still fluidy. So it could be that the chemo has worked. The chemo has attacked the cancer cells. And when a cell gets attacked, your body produces fluid to go around it. So it could be just swelling. It's not necessarily a grown cancer. And when you sign up for these operations, they give you some papers to read for legal protection of the doctor in the hospital. So I've probably got 200 pages of literature on this scene telling me that I have to understand having this operation, I could end up not being able to walk, drink, talk, hear, see. My left arm or my right arm could fall off. All of these possible outcomes, all horrible. And now I'm still in a situation where one of the reasons is this might only be a bruise. And at this stage, the oncologist is agreeing that I've got to go and have this operation now. So yeah, those decisions have to come. So we go ahead with the operation. And after it, I'm in hospital and I see the oncologist and he comes in and he says, they've taken it out. It's all for sampling. And the next report, yes, I got the next. And I said, well, what happens now? He said, well, when we get the report, if it was cancerous and could still be in your body, we'll just start a different cocktail or chemo. And so we get out of the operation. And because I was cut from chest to right down the middle, everything taken out, everything put back, had to wait for six weeks before and got told, yes, it was cancerous. So six weeks later, front back at the oncologist, I finally got some air back from being bald and we're fronted up to his office. And I walked in, he said, what are you doing here? I said, well, it was cancerous. And I had the appointment for six weeks later. And he said, well, it's not cancerous. The chemo had to do it. You don't have to be here. And he said, get a bottle of champagne and celebrate with your wife that mum has eaten. And that was a pretty nice day, you know, because we had gone through all this shit. And I'm told I've got another six weeks of it all, another six months. And then somebody gave me the wrong information when I'm lying on a death bed in the hospital, which is not fun. So, yeah, but then just on a more amusing side is when you have gone through Then they suggest that every six months for the next five years to 10 years, you'll go and you will have a full body scan to test for everything. And so the six months comes up and I'm sitting in at TAFE then I'm thinking, well, none of these people are going out to have body scans. I am. People say, and you don't know, I was not looking forward to it because as far as I'm concerned, the only thing I can get is bad news. I'm going, okay. So you go and have this body scan and then you come back from the body scan and people being nice and everything, totally positive and say, isn't that great that you know you haven't got it. Are you having a scan? He said, no, it's not great. You don't want to know and you don't want this. So for 10 years, you put up with it. But so then everything's been fine ever since. And so around about, so once you get through that or around about that time, Mel gets married. And how got married? During. During. Yes. And how was that for you when you're trying to deal with that? I don't think dealing with it was as traumatic as the incidents that happen after. The day-to-day stuff of being in hospital and getting chemo and losing hair, you just feel shit. I don't know that I was that traumatized as such during that. Yeah, no, that's part of it. Just accept that what I get is what I'm getting. I'm pretty much like that. And yeah, so no, it was still bad. So the next Mel and Jen move out of the house and I'm, we're in my way through high school. And then you become a grandfather. Yep. What's it like to have grandchildren? Tell me about that experience. Well, we're in Bali. I'm going to, due to cancer, I'm going to Bali once a year with my mates. So that difference of, we're in, I'm in Bali. Now as a baby, I catch the next plane home. So which is crazy, but it's just what having grandchildren means. And grandchildren are like your own. You realize pretty early in life or early, but you realize you're only there for when they need you. So you have grandchildren, a grandchild relationship, basically at maximum until they're 12. After 12, they don't need you. Then maybe at 17, they need you again because you're the only idiot who'll get in the car with them. So you get to do driving lessons. But so it's not that you're being used. It is just that's your role. I remember having a fight with your mum one day. We have the Sunday barbecues at our place where just everybody's over and mum's upstairs because we're having a simple barbecue, but mum's going to go up and downstairs cooking stuff and getting special things for Chris because he can't eat normal sausages, things like that. Any of it. So we're downstairs and downstairs, your mum's going to be here for 20 years. I've only got Ben for another six years. Then he'll be 12. He won't know to be. Yes, that's the sort of relationship you have. Then you get Jay, a beautiful little girl. The hardest crowd I've ever seen because she was the girl and with Jenny's kids. She would set up tents and covers under the pool table or table, pool table often. They'd snoop at that. Well, they'd be playing with the boys. But as soon as Ben walked in, the boys get lost, Jay. It was horrible. She's a boy. Yes, that's what grandchildren are. And what are your fondest memories of the grandchildren? What do you remember most about when they were young? I think that you remember so many things. It depends what you're talking about. One of the great holidays we had was when we went out to wherever Melbourne was going, Kalbarri. We had the little kids there and we went out on various things. We were on the whatever, steps, divided steps, moonlight all over the ocean with the kids there. You think back on how little they were, what fun it was. There are lots of very fond memories. Yeah. I'm not going to talk long enough to speak about my fond memories of my kids, okay? Sure. Well, one of the things that I've learned a lot from your mum is just about the value of friendship. You have some there. Talk to me about that group of your mates that started with high school. No, the group of my mates that started with grade one primary school, Peter Atkinson. Peter and I, Peter was a year older, but he stayed down here. We were in grade one together and he was a groomsman at my wedding. He's still there. The others basically came as Christian brothers. We weren't that close until after the brothers. James, he wasn't in my class in year 12, did not hang around with year 11s at school. There was a class distinction, you might call it. But as soon as school finished, Tony Floris was in my class from grade five when he met Christian brothers. So from about that grade five era, had Duffy, Peter Lynch. We knew each other from grade five and we were friends all the way through. So yeah, that just built and and we stayed together. I don't really know why. As I said, it was that type of group, never really bothered to find any other social friends. I didn't have enough social time to be going out with that another group. So and that group provided all we needed. For a group of people, we had our own cricket team and we used to play a lot of cricket matches. We played social tennis, we played indoor cricket and we played basketball. So we had a sporting life and we played golf. We had the sporting life, organised sporting life. So that filled in the sport and the drink. That was basically all that was required. And I trust them all implicitly. I can't technically, although you do birthday and you can, technically you feel you can't do it because they already know you. And they'll just say things like, oh, that's Forbesy. Well, that's Duff. Yeah. Yeah. We know him and that's what he does. And you can normally pick other. But it's very handy having it. Yeah. That was handy during that period when I was really crook. I mean, people would, obviously the lines in our group would be, don't buy any green tomatoes. Who's going to make me deal with that? Those sort of comments is how we deal with everything. Yeah. The humour. Yeah. It's a sort of humour we deal with everything with. And it's a release. Yeah. Very handy to have. So in terms of life today, everybody ages. Yeah. Our bodies start to decay over time. Yeah. How do you think about that and how do you think about death as well? What do you think about it? I don't think about death. Okay. Okay. So you're not worried about it? Not at the least. If I die, do I? Yeah. Yeah. That's not worry about it. And I don't worry about I haven't done anything. Yes. That's not a concern. None of it. I just can't really say I live for the day because I'm a little bit more cautious than that. I can't. I cannot spend more than I earn. I don't know why. It's not like I can't afford a decent pair of shoes. But I'm in a group where Ackie doesn't buy shoes. Yeah. The only one of my friends who spends his money is his aunt. What's that? She said, nah. He said, I'll be able to live on the pension. I'll always have my house to live on the pension. That's it. Ackie won't. Ackie will spend a lot of money on children and grandchildren and be stupid. That's probably what we all are. Peter's taking his kids everywhere, but she's got to try. But he's looking after Tom and he's that. We are all still that way. We spend money on it. One spends it on itself. And Stephen's a little bit different, but not a lot. It's not a lot of anything either. Yeah. And it's not that we don't have the money. And there is nothing I can do to change how I am. Nothing. Yeah. It's just weird. But we see this conversation. It's not that I'm spending money. It doesn't happen, can it? No, but it can't. So that's it. That's me. So I have just a few quickfire questions to finish. But I say quickfire, but take as long as you want. Spend on it as much as you want. What is the best decision you have ever made? Weirdly, I must nearly say, it was marrying your mum. It's a difficult one, but we've survived. And I'm a person who did say in front of thousands of people, happily married is a contradiction of truth. Now that's me. And that's probably what I honestly believe. But you have to have a partner. You have to have a partner you can rely on. And I think getting mum, I got that. We don't agree on anything. And we shouldn't be married. And we should have separated 40 years ago, but we didn't. So yeah, probably the best decision I ever made. That's great. Do you have any regrets? I have a regret that in a lot of respects, I didn't live up to the expectation of others. I haven't. And I worry about this with you, not with Mal and Octogen. If we went back to my school days, they're going to say, no, I wasn't. I wasn't very clever at this. My rear glove I ever bopped into. An Italian kid who came out here can't speak English, gets seven subjects, six distinctions, and the Christian brothers can only say, he only got 50 in English. You're right, in year 10. Two years. And Con Contra Baro the other. There were three of us in that year who were a little bit above the others. And yeah, people would say, yeah, he's going to do well. He's going to do this. It was very hard in some respects to go back to school reunions where I was going to meet, not the guys I hang around with, but even ours say that. Yeah. I'm thinking, yeah, that feeling like I have to explain myself. And I think I said this to you once. I was concerned about that for you, that sooner or later in life you end up going back to where you come from sort of thing. And it's whether or not you can cope with it. And that was a concern I had for you, and still do. I'm not sure if you go back and you find out that so-and-so's multimillionaire house, five cars, big boat, and you haven't. And you're in a position then where you're sort of trying to say, yeah, but I've done what I wanted to. But if what you want to do isn't what other people's perception, it's a bit of a dilemma there. But that wouldn't be the only thing. I wish I'd been more diligent when I've worked. A lot of little things. But I don't think realistically I've done it many times. I definitely don't try to do it. I might say, yeah, but anyhow. So no, I don't have a lot of regrets. Yeah, that's good. And this might cover similar ground, but it's a different question. But if you could go back in time, what would you tell your 20-year-old self? Don't miss a lecture. I should have got my degree straight away. I should have. No, it's 10 years to get a degree. I mean, I got a son in six years to get a four-year degree. And he used to study. But in my case, yes, I only kept to be put on restricted study in the first year of accounting, even though I did better than most. Yeah, but I had sort of this, I didn't go to uni. So you would tell your 20-year-old self to attend lectures, be more diligent. Yeah, because I now realize, had I done that, wouldn't have taken any more time. And I would have achieved a different result. So yes, you look back and think, yeah, that was probably not the smartest thing I ever did. That was fun at the time. Final question for you, Dad. What values or advice, could be both, would you like to pass down to the younger generations of your family? Well, it's a rather strange question because I've come to the realization that they don't listen to me very well. So there's not a lot of blank handing down. I just hope that they have gathered the importance of family. Yeah, just hope they've gathered that. It doesn't mean you've got to be anything, just it's family. And when you realize what family is, well, that's a great note to end on. Thanks so much, Dad. I enjoyed it.