Holy Curiosity #1, “Authenticity in Approaching God” ft Samantha Shippey

Hey guys, today we're going to be answering the first episode of the podcast that we're going to be calling Holy Curiosity. My name is Daniel Rosario, and I'm going to be your host. I'm here today, though, with a good friend of mine from church, a very beautiful voice, not just in worship, but also on stage preaching. Her name is Samantha. Hi, I'm Samantha, and I'm kind of nervous, but I'm excited to be here today. So where to start, where to start, I don't know. What would you say is the driving factor in your relationship with Christ right now? That's a good question, starting heavy. I would say my main motivation in following Christ, where I am right now in year three, would probably just be there's kind of nowhere else. I guess I feel like now walking with Christ for three years, I realize that there's no other way to live. So even when it's hard and confusing and makes no sense, it's kind of like in the Gospels when the Pharisees all started leaving because he was saying really hard things, and he asked his disciples, like, are you guys going to leave too? And Peter's like, Lord, where else would we go? You have the words of eternal life. So I feel like that's what it would be like. There's just kind of no other option, if that makes sense. That's really beautiful. One thing that stood out to me from what you said is that it's three years, it's year three, it's a three-year journey. Tell us more about that. How did you start this journey? So I was raised in a Christian household. I mean, I would say like a lukewarm Christian household. Both my parents were believers, but we didn't really go to church consistently for a long time, and I think I always knew the elements of the Christian faith, but I didn't always put it into practice. So when I was 12 years old, or actually, no, 13, my parents separated, and it was just a really hard time in my life, and I fell away from anything that I did believe about Christianity at the time, and I just didn't want anything to do with it. I don't know if I was angry at God, or if I was just like, I don't care. I don't really know what it was, but I always feel like I was literally hiding in church bathrooms so I wouldn't have to go to service because my mom would force me. So yeah, I really fell away for a while, and then quarantine hit, and I was alone all the time, and I can't really point to like a specific day that I gave my life to Christ, but it was just more and more like a desire to pray, to read the Bible, to listen to worship music, until it eventually became just like a forest fire, and that was when I started following Him, and that was about three years ago, around this time, 2020, was when it really started to hit me, and yeah, never looked back. That is so beautiful. That is just so beautiful, and there's so much to unpack there as well. I want to go back a little bit to what you said about the story with Jesus, and how He asked the disciples if they were going to leave as well after everyone left, and they said like, where else would we go? I think that that posture, it just comes from finding Jesus as the only source of life. As He said, He is the living bread, you know what I mean? It fills my heart with so much joy, just understanding the fact that that's our sustenance, you know what I mean? So my question, I guess, is how does it feel, or how would you describe leaning on Jesus as your sustenance in your life? That's a good question. I think just realizing that there's nothing to not pray about. There's nothing to not need Him for. I think it really comes from seeing Jesus as your friend, which I really think is the journey I've been on. When I first thought of following Christ, I was so legalistic, and not fearing the Lord but afraid of the Lord, and so afraid of like, oh my gosh, if I don't do everything perfectly, I'm going to go to hell, and Jesus is mad at me, and all these things. And so I think really in the last year is when God has shown me like, yes, all those things are true, and we should follow the Lord, and we should have a fear of the Lord, but it's not being afraid of Him, and it's realizing like, Jesus is my friend, so I don't have to do anything without Him. I don't have to, like, I'm supposed to need Him for everything, and ask Him for everything, and talk to Him about everything. Like, I think it comes from the perspective of seeing Jesus as my friend and my father versus just my God, because He is, and He's our commander, and He's all those important things, and we should never be irreverent toward Him. But I think the way that you lean on the Lord is just realizing that He's my friend, and where else would I go? There is no other option, there's no other place that I can find these things. So I have, not that I have no choice, I'm like, oh, I have to do this, but just like, Jesus is my friend, and there's nowhere else I want to go, and regardless, nothing else has what I need like He does. Yeah, and that's really powerful. I know that to be true in so many ways, but I guess the best way I can describe it is like, by saying sort of my testimony, I guess, I also realize now that you listeners don't really have context to who I am, but just to start off, I guess, as I said previously, my name is Daniel, and I as well was raised in a Christian family, except that it wasn't lukewarm by any means. It was very, very hot, to give it a description, but my mom is a prophet, my dad is a pastor, so I was raised, and it was always just, this is, this is, this is it, this is, and I guess what that, the effect that that had on me was that it was like, I see this, and I see how you guys believe in this, but I didn't know it for myself, and I got so caught up in trying to find God, or know God the way that my parents knew God, that it got to the point where I didn't even know how to come to God authentically, because whenever I prayed, I would pray the way that my mom prayed, or I would pray expecting this, or I would pray expecting God to treat me the way that He treats my parents, and what I found now is that He's a personal God, so our interactions with God is going to be personal to our relationship with Him, and it took me so long to find Him, because I was looking through, like, I feel like I was looking through a view, you know what I mean, like, my vision was blocked, because I was looking at people to find Him, instead of looking at Him to find, you know what I mean, and yeah, and I think that it's true, like, about Him being our friend, because when I started to lean on Him as a friend, instead of as, like, some outside force, you know what I mean, when I started to look at Him as a friend, and I started to just come to Him as I was, authentically, I started to feel that presence, and I can't actually say a day to when I, like, fully found Him, and it was during camp, yeah, during summer camp that we went to with the church, that they were having this worship moment, and in that moment, honestly, I had not been further from God, even, like, throughout, I had been going to church, I've been going to church, there hasn't been a weekend in my life that I haven't gone to church, unless there's, like, some event or something that stops it, but in that moment, it was one of the moments where I was completely detached from church, but my parents forced me to go on this summer camp trip, I went, it was fun, but I was looking for fun in the activities, instead of for God, but I guess the activities were God-based, so I really didn't have a way to run away from it, and then, in that moment, I see everyone else enjoying this, and crying, and I'm like, okay, so I must be either, like, tripping, or, you know what I mean, so then I just asked God, and I opened my heart to it, and when I asked Him, I'll never forget, like, I saw glimpses, visions, of, like, hands, like, reaching down from the sky into a hand that was reaching up into the sky, and there was, like, millions, not millions, but there was a lot of hands that were just, like, the vision was just hands, hands, hands, like, everywhere, and I don't know why it was just so, like, hand-based, but then, after seeing that vision, then there was a moment where I got on my knees, and I was just crying out to God, and then one person comes, and they put their hand on my back, and I was like, oh, okay, and then another person, and then another person, and then another person, and then another person, and there was, like, seven guys around me, just with their hands on me, and, like, the vision that I had literally came to life, and then, after that, I was like, okay, so, okay, I guess I know what I need to follow, but that's what happens when you come to God authentically, as you are, yeah. I think that's so cool. I love that vision that he gave you. I think that's awesome, of all the hands reaching down to the one hand reaching up, like, I just think that's amazing. It talks so much about just community, and reaching out like that, and that, just the fact that God pursues us, you know, and I think, also, all the hands that were reaching down almost makes me think of, like, the cloud of witnesses that, I don't know, like, heaven theology like that, but I guess I just feel like there had to have been people that were praying for, like, how Mommy Angie was saying today, like, there were people that showed up for her, and chased her, and all those things, and I think the same thing is true, like, as much as God is reaching down and looking for you, just like all of heaven rejoices when someone comes to Christ, I think all of heaven, I don't know, maybe prays for you, like, how Jesus prays for us, and I think that's so cool that it was reaching down, and all those things. I can't wait to go to camp. I've never been to camp, and I'm really excited to go next year, so, yeah, it's really awesome. That's fire. I honestly, you're going to enjoy it a lot. It was really fun. Actually, you, I heard that you just went to a conference, so tell us a bit about that, that conference. How was that? Like, what did you receive? What do you feel like God was trying to tell you through that? Just tell us about that. I'm so excited you brought this up. So, this was my first conference ever, and I was really excited to go. It was a youth pastor summit, and I went because, not because I'm a youth pastor, but I helped lead middle school small groups with Mommy Angie, and it's really awesome, and it's really been a dream come true. I led small groups one time last summer when all of the adults were away at another conference, and they asked me to lead it, and I loved it, and I had so much fun, so when this new season of small groups came up, I had someone at the church praying for me that I would be able to have this position, and I do, and I love it, and it's such a blessing. So, Pastor Isaac wanted me to go to this conference, so we went, and I was really excited, more than anything, just because, like, a bunch of people that I loved and knew were going up there, and, like, friends, and we're going to go to University, and all this stuff, and I was a little nervous going into it, because I was like, am I going to be able to sit still for, like, hours, and listen to all these people talk for hours? Like, I don't know, but it was amazing, so we got there, and I want to say, first of all, the worship was amazing. I think corporate worship is such a blessing, and it was amazing. Like, the worship team sounded great. They were singing great songs. We were all together. Like, it was really just an awesome experience. So, on the first day, something that stood out to me that the second speaker, I believe, said was focus on the depth of your ministry, and let God worry about the width. I thought that was so good, because I think every Wednesday I get there, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, there's like five girls here. Like, oh, my gosh, there's two girls here. This one didn't show up, and this one can't make it, and this one's not consistent with it. And even just, not even in small groups, but when I go to church, and I'm like, why are these seats so empty today? And it's easy to feel like that and feel like, okay, we're not going to be effective, because there's not a lot of people here, but I thought it was so cool, and it was like, if you focus on the depth of your ministry, and you preach the true word, no matter how many people are there, and you connect with these girls, and you're intimate and honest, then the width doesn't really matter. Like, Jesus only had 12 disciples. Even though thousands came and listened to his teachings and all those things, and he affected thousands, like, how many people are there does not affect how effective you're going to be. So that was really what stood out to me for the first day, going to kind of a smaller youth than other churches. That definitely stuck with me. And then another thing, there was a, well, okay, we'll focus on the first day. The third guy that preached, the first guy was good too. He talked about, like, taking up your God-given space. It was funny. That was cool. The third guy talked about a spirit of slavery versus a spirit of friendship, which I thought was really interesting. It's something I struggle with a lot, and he was talking about three different, like, lives we tell ourselves about, like, having a spirit of slavery. And the last two really stood out to me. It was the fear that we'll never be enough, and the fear that we'll never do enough. And that's kind of been the journey that I've been on, because like I mentioned, I was really, really legalistic for most of my walk, honestly, and it's really been the last, like, year that I've been, that God has been revealing his real heart to me and moving out of all those things. So it was really powerful to hear how he was talking about that when we lead from a spirit of slavery, then we just breed more slaves and more people that are just trying to serve other people, serve God instead of, like, I'm your son, and so I want to serve you versus I better do this or God's going to strike me, and I think that's, like, an attitude that I had for a long time. So that was day one. And then day two, the first speaker was incredible. Her name was Megan Fate Marshman, and I'm obsessed with her now. Very cool name, yeah. Obsessed with her now. She was preaching on community, and it was funny, because she preached this story of a healing. I don't remember where in the gospel it's from, but I think it was in Matthew, but it was the father that came to Jesus, and he was like, oh, my gosh, my son is sick. Like, he's possessed, and he has, like, seizures and all these things, and, like, if you can do anything, like, please heal him. And Jesus was like, if I can do anything, like, what do you mean? And that was the story when he said, I believe, Lord, help my unbelief. So I never, like, I was like, yeah, okay, cool. Like, you know, we all do, like, we believe, we also don't believe, and she was like, but it was called double knowledge, and it's a doctrine that you can't know God unless you know yourself, and I was like, that's really weird. What do you mean by that? And she was like, he was aware of his own depravity and aware of God's truth. So almost, like, I believe it with my head, like, okay, yes, I know that in scripture, but I'm also aware that in my heart of hearts, I still have a hard time believing that, and that that's where, like, the intimacy lies. And then she brought in the scripture that was, like, the one that was, like, which this scripture scares me so bad, and it was, like, on the Day of Judgment, many will say to me, oh, Lord, we prophesied in your name, blah, blah, blah, but depart from me, I never knew you. And it was always, like, it's not you never knew me, but I never knew you, and so she was, like, real intimacy with God and real friendship with God is, Lord, I believe, help my unbelief. So, like, Lord, I believe I'm supposed to do this, but help me, because in my actual heart and what I'm actually doing, I don't believe it. Like, that double, no, it's not. We gotta take this, we gotta dissect this. So I really love what you were just saying, and I have a lot to say on that, but I wanna go back to the first thing you said, the first speaker, because something you said really, really got to me, and now it's slipped my mind. What was the first speaker? He said, focus on the depth of your ministry and let God worry about the width. Okay, okay, yes. Now I'm remembering that. I actually have a testimony that speaks to that exactly, because, and this is what came to mind when you were talking, because at my school, we have a first priority club, and at the club, I like to, you know, talk and all of this, but there's so many times where, like, it's a small day, you know, there's, like, three people, the usual people, and it's like, okay, you know, I guess today's wasted, but when we're there and I realize that it's only just us, we have so, like, our conversations get so intimate, and it's just so beautiful, because we'll end up in tears. We'll end up in tears, and not just that, but there was another moment where I was on my bus, and usually on my bus, I'll just be, like, reading my Bible or something, because that's how I like to carry myself throughout my day of school, and then there was this guy who asked me a question, right, and he was just asking me a question, and he was like, oh, yeah, blah, blah, blah, and then we started talking, and I gave him, like, a worship song that I liked, and then, but he's not Christian at all, but I was just talking, and he was genuinely interested, because he was like, whoa, I see that you've changed a lot, I see that, like, you are really into this now, I'm wondering about this, and then a couple of weeks go by, and, like, last week, I see him sitting on the bus, and he's reading a book, and I'm like, that looks like the Bible, but I'm probably tripping, I'm probably tripping, I'm not trying to hype myself up too much, because I'm like, all right, I don't know what he's doing, so, but then, like, I eventually, my curiosity gets the best of me, and I ask him, I'm like, yo, what book is that, and then he lifts it up, and it says Holy Bible, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, I genuinely, like, I felt so fulfilled, because something that I thought would be, like, not wide, you know, going back to the focus on the depth and not the width, like, something that would, to human eyes, look like it's not, it's not worth doing, because it's not going to impact anyone, it's not far, like, it's not, you're not reaching far out, you're just sitting on your bus reading your Bible, that's, like, the shallow, not shallow, the least wide thing that you could do, but it's very deep, because, as in, like, it's very authentic, it's just what I'm doing, it's the way I live my life, and he saw that, and when he asked about it, he was impacted, and then he was telling me that he really liked the worship song that I recommended to him, and all of this, and how, ever since he started reading, he felt, like, this peace, and I was just, like, whoa, like, whoa, and I'm telling you, the second he got off the bus, I laid back in my seat, and I started crying, because it was just, it was something that just, like, and not just that, but one thing that I want to say is, you find so much more fulfillment when you focus on the depth of what you do, instead of its reach. I feel like that's what I'm telling you, because God brings the reach, but you've got to focus on being, like, authentic, and being real, and being, not just godly, but being, like, letting the Holy Spirit use you, and that is exactly what, like, spoke to me when you were talking about the first speaker, and now going to the second one, I'm telling you, we have to break that down, you said so much. Wait, have a rebuttal. Oh, okay. I think that's so cool, because something that God has really been convicting me of is evangelism, and, like, sharing the gospel in that way, and I think, not only is it so cool that you affected someone at your school like that, but also, what we're saying about focusing on the depth, like, if you don't have the depth to begin with, then the width won't mean anything, because it's, like, if you're only focusing on the numbers, and you're just, like, you know, then you didn't really affect anyone, and you have this big crowd, but you weren't really, like, preaching, like, I would rather get to heaven and have three people waiting for me that I changed their lives, versus a whole crowd of people that I spoke to, but never even, you know, and we can't save anyone, that's not what I'm trying to say, but just, like, having the boldness to be, like, okay, maybe I didn't share the gospel with everyone today, and we should evangelize, that's our goal, that's a great commission, but I think if I can have a meaningful conversation about God with three people that I know this week, then I feel like that's better than telling 25 people, oh, hey, here's my church card, praying for you, but, like, and that's good, and we should evangelize, and you never know what kind of, like, opportunities God's going to bring into your life, maybe you have a deep conversation about God with a stranger, too, but I think God puts friends in our lives so that we can have those kinds of conversations, and I'd rather deeply affect a handful of people than, you know, just kind of give you a church card and, like, blanket everyone else. Right. Yeah. Because he rejoices in the one sheep that's lost, that was found, and he leaves the 99, and that's the way that we should be as well, because we're not looking for numbers, but we're looking for what, actually, what was coming to mind now is, I don't have my Bible on me, but I guess I'm going to just misquote it, it's in Matthew, when Jesus is talking to the Samaritan woman, and he tells her that the Father is searching for people who will worship in spirit and in truth, because those are the worshipers that he seeks, that's so much truth into it, like, we're not looking for people who can sing, or we're not looking for people who can speak, or people who can make you entertained for half an hour, or this, but we're looking for people who worship the Father in spirit and in truth, and that's what he seeks, not just from us, but from those who we're talking to, from those who we're trying to impact, so how do we impact someone and guide them in the way of spirit and truth, by just living and speaking from spirit and truth, like, just being authentic, like, the way I talked to that guy, like, it was just, like, this is where I'm at right now, this is the way he's impacted my life, there's nothing better for me, there's nowhere else to go. And it's funny that you talk about worship in spirit and truth, because at the conference, we had, the second day was like lab sessions, which are like workshops, kind of, and one of them was about worship, and protecting the purity of corporate worship, and it really affected me, because as a worship leader, I see and I feel how easily it becomes a performance, and it's worrying about what I look like, and what my outfits are, and the arrangement, and all these kinds of things, so, right, and so she was talking about all that, that like, the point is to worship in spirit and truth, so I like that you brought that up, but yeah, it's about discipleship, not, like, yes, you're in the gospel, but, you know, like, actually discipling you, like, and that's so much easier when you have a group of five people, or a group of ten people, than if you have all these great crowds, and all that's often to affect many people, and to share the gospel, like, think about Billy Graham, like, one of the greats, like, he really did, like, deeply affect all those people he preached to, but I think we overcomplicate sharing the gospel, I know, at least I do, and I make it seem like, unless I'm, like, on a mission trip in Tanzania, that I'm not doing anything, and it's not, that's not true, like, God put the people in my life, I don't know a lot of Christians, like, the only Christians I know are the ones I go to church with, I don't know any Christians at my school, so it's, like, the fact that God put you in my life means that I'm supposed to disciple you, and discipleship takes time and attention, and, like, that focus thing, and that's easier to do with less people. Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, and, yeah, there's so much truth to, like, everything that you said, especially about how God puts people in our lives for a reason, right? I feel that heavy, because I know, like, I can get caught up in looking at connections as, like, oh, like, this is just, you know, something that happened, and ignoring it, or, like, letting it flow, whatever, and then I have my God friends and this friend, but I'm a godly person, so I mean that, and, like, yes, I may have friends that are interested in different things, but I am still this, I'm still God-sensitive, so wherever I go, my conversations are God-sensitive, and I feel like it's heavy about every person that we're talking to is a seed that we can plant in them, a seed that we can sow, and even if it gets annoying to them, right, like, I'm not saying to have no friends and to be annoying to the point where, like, you lose your friends, because, well, first of all, you will lose friends when walking this walk, there's certain people that we just can't be with, but I'm not saying that you can't talk to anyone who isn't Christian, because if you can't talk to people who aren't Christian, how are you going to preach to people who aren't Christian, you know what I mean, how are you going to spread the message, but the point is just to not change who you are for that person. If you can't accept it, then we're going to have to, you know what I mean? Now, going into the second, or the latter thing that you said, because that, I had a lot to say about that as well, and it still ties in as well, because what really stood out to me about that was about being authentic, that knowing God has helped my unbelief. I think that speaks so heavily into, like, the way that we come to God now, most Christians. I was actually eating lunch with a couple of my friends from school, and I started praying before I ate, and she was like, wait, you don't rehearse your prayers? And I was like, what do you mean, rehearse my prayers? And she was like, oh, no, because usually we just say, like, the same prayer before we eat, and I'm like, yeah, but I wouldn't really be praying, because I'm not really, like, who do, my thing is, who do we think we're talking to when we pray, like, the faked prayer, which is just like, God, thank you for everything that you've done, you know what, but you're acting like he doesn't know that you're depressed, you're acting like he doesn't know the truth about, but you're just hiding it from him for what, like, he wants us to come authentically, he wants us to tell him the truth of where we're at, so that he can give us the truth of what we are, of where we're supposed to be, of what he wants us to do, of how he wants us to address that, I just, I think it's so beautiful, like, coming to God authentically, what do you think about that? I think, I want to read part of my notes from that, and it says, we have to understand how much he loves us in order to be intimate with him in prayer. I think that's, that's, like, the whole point, like, exactly like you're saying, what do I think I'm accomplishing by not telling him, like, he doesn't already know, but you have to understand how much he loves you to be able to tell him that, because for so long, I couldn't tell God everything that I was dealing with, because I was like, no, he'll be mad at me, or he won't, whatever, like, all those kinds of things, we have the tendency to think he'll only love us when we're doing well, but it's understanding, like, first of all, he already sees all this, so I'm not accomplishing anything by hiding it from him, but to be loved by God means showing him those horrible parts of you, and knowing that he loves those too, and I think we have to understand how deeply he loves us to be able to tell him those things, because it is scary, like, I'm telling the God of the universe, it's something that I struggle with a lot, about sharing the gospel, like, I was praying this morning, I was like, God, when I go to Starbucks, or my church Starbucks on Sunday morning, I'm going to tell this person about Jesus, and did I do it? No, I did not, and it's so easy to just be, like, frustrated and all those things, but we have to confront the actual issue, which is, like, I believe that your gospel is powerful, that I'm supposed to be sharing it, but help my unbelief, I'm choosing myself, my comfort, I'm going to not take this 40 seconds of awkwardness, even though it could change your life, even though it's obeying you, I chose me, that's ugly, and I hate that, that I did that, but if I don't tell him that, like, that's what confession and repentance is, I have to confront the really, like, horrible part, and let him love that, and let him fix that, and that's how we repent and turn from it, if that makes sense. I think the only thing that can really add on to what you're saying is scripture itself, come as you are, it doesn't say come when you're ready, come when you're perfect, come when you're worthy, because what Jesus did on that cross was calling us worthy, even though he knew that we weren't able, he knew that we weren't going to be faithful, he knew that we weren't going to be good, righteous, or worthy ever in our lives, we're always going to fall short, he called us worthy, he chose to lay his life down to allow us, to give us strength, to give us the means to meet the Father, and I love that, but one thing that I really want to say concerning Jesus as well is that all the time as youth we hear the scripture, do not be unequally yoked, right? And I know this is sort of, like, random-ish, but I made a connection on this and Jesus a while back that I want to bring up here, which is that Jesus, on the cross, was agreeing to an eternal unequal yoke, because a yoke, do you know what a yoke is? Yeah, I think that's what it is. Yeah, yeah, it's the things that hold the ox together on a cart, and so when you're two oxen attached to a cart, if both of them are going in separate directions, the cart's not going to be able to move properly, right? And the yoke is what binds them together, so if they're disagreeing with each other while they're under a yoke, there's not going to be any movement, but that's why we need to be equally yoked when we're walking in the direction of Jesus. We can't walk with someone who's going to lead us in the opposite direction, right? But what I understand is that we're all still pulling a carriage. Even when I'm a single oxen, this is an analogy, when I'm a single oxen and I'm pulling my carriage, I can't pull this load on my own. So what Jesus did was come on as the strongest, the most powerful oxen to ever exist, and He took the load for me, and now all I have to do is just walk under Him. And I'm safe, and He's pulling the load for me. That's why it says that His yoke is easy, but what that means as well is that I can't leave this, because once I leave this, now I need to pull it on my own again. And pulling it on your own doesn't take you anywhere. There's not going to be any movement, because it's way too heavy for me to carry on my own. And that's why we have to take up our own cross, that's why we have to crucify our flesh, because we're not walking under Him, and we're not able to walk with Christ when we're walking in the opposite direction of Him. I'm not saying that we can't trip, we trip all the time, every day. But walking under Him is just, it covers for even our trip up. It covers for our mess, because He's the one pulling the load. And yeah, I just love all of this. Yeah, definitely. I think, something else that this preacher said was that His pursuit of you isn't even dependent on you. And I think that's what gets me every time. He's not even pursuing me because I'm worth pursuing. He's pursuing me because He has to, because that's His heart. Like, He can't... Like, one of my favorite verses ever is 2 Timothy 2.13. And it says, for even when we are faithless, He is still faithful, for He cannot deny who He is. Like, His pursuit of me, His faithfulness to me, isn't even dependent on me, because I'm not worth it. It's just because His heart, that's how it is. He can't be anything but faithful. He can't be anything but loving. So, like you're saying about the thing of oxen and tying into what you were saying before, like, that's why it's come as you are. Because to say that you're going to clean yourself up before coming to Christ is pride, because you can't anyway. And it's to spit in the face of everything Christ did for you. Like, why do you think He died? Because you can't. So the whole idea, like, that really is a ploy from the enemy to keep you from Christ and to keep you in pride, because you think that you can figure this out by yourself. And like, okay, I'm just going to get good, and then I'll go to God. Like, no, He can't. Not just to make bad things good, but to make dead things alive. That's what Pastor Craig Rochelle says. And that's exactly what I think it is, like, the pride of thinking that we can clean ourselves up and then come to Christ. And it's like, no, I cannot bear this burden. Like, I need to walk with Jesus. And even when we choose to turn away, like, something that Pastor Debbie says that I love, she preached in the youth one time, and she preached Romans 12. And she was saying how, you know how it says, like, be a living sacrifice? And she was like, that's really important. I never thought anything of it. I was like, okay, whatever. Like, we just live in sacrifice to God. But it's like, a living sacrifice can get up off the altar, but a dead one can't. So it's like, the fact that we're a living sacrifice means, like, we're going to get up off the altar and walk away, so we have to come back every time. And we'll be that lost sheep over and over, because we're going to try and pull our own weight. We're going to fall back into that, oh, I'm going to clean myself up. Like, we do it all the time without even noticing it. And so we have to come back to that, because we can't bear that burden alone. And that's why we're called to live a life of constant repentance. And when you get caught up in thinking that you don't have to repent anymore, that's when you walk down the slippery slope of becoming not just a false teacher, but just losing that, like, you know how they say, oh, I prophesied in your name. I did this. I taught billions of people, but you stopped repenting. I don't know who you are. Depart from me. I don't know you. Oh, my gosh. It's beautiful, because it does tie into that, like, even being a living sacrifice, it ties into just living under him as he's pulling our load, because we can choose to walk away from that yoke as a living sacrifice, but living under is the only way that we find life. Yes, and I love that you say that, because something – I don't even know what pastor this is, but he says that, like, the closer you get to God, the more sinful you're going to feel. And I was like, that's so real, because, like, you think about it, like, when you're in the presence of perfection, you're aware of how imperfect you are. So the thing about constant repentance, like, I repent more on a daily basis now than I did a year ago and the year before that, because I realize more and more how sinful I am, because I didn't know it a year ago. I didn't realize, like, okay, that's – you know what I mean? Like, the closer you get to God, the more you're going to repent, and it reminds me of – I think it's 2 Corinthians 9, but I might be wrong – when Paul talks about the thorn in his side that he asked God three times to remove, and every time he said, my grace is sufficient for you, my power is made perfect in weakness. And I always thought of that as, like, it was a physical ailment of Paul, and it could have been. But I think someone said it. They were like, anything that keeps you running back to God is ultimately a blessing. And so it's like, as much as I want God to heal me from this sin, and he will, eventually we will all have victory over sin, and it's a process, and we struggle with certain things more than others, and sanctification is a lifelong process. But as frustrating as it is to be sinful, that's why he made sanctification a lifelong process, because if I was perfect the day I accepted Christ, I wouldn't need to keep repenting and keep running back to him. So it's like, every time that I mess up, it keeps me close to God. It reminds me how much I need him. It keeps me humble, and it's that thorn in my side, and his grace is made perfect in my weakness. Talking about humility, the humility that it takes to be a follower in truth, at school with the guys from the First Priority Club, we were reading Proverbs, and one thing that really stood out to me from Proverbs is that God honors the humble, and he exalts the oppressed. That's a posture of being. When you choose to humble yourself before the Lord, saying, I can't do this, I'm a sinner, I'm worthless on my own, so let me find my worth in you, that posture of spirit and truth, that posture of the heart, is what you seek. That's when you'll be exalted, and not because you're exalting yourself, but because you're bringing glory to the Father. And you can only bring glory to the Father when you choose to lower yourself below him. Because if you do it any other way, you're bringing glory to yourself. And there's no point to that. That's why I'm passing. This has been a wonderful, wonderful episode, first episode. We have to have a part two, because there's a couple of things that I wanted to say as well. It was a wonderful time, a wonderful conversation. I enjoyed it a lot. Thank you so much for having me. I hope this blessed someone and someone can relate. Thank you for having me. We had a great time. And I will be back for part two, definitely. Next time, we will have some video to the podcast. So look forward to it. This is all a work in progress, just as our sanctification is. I hope you guys enjoyed. Have a nice day.