Q1-19990908-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-shining_the_light_of_death_on_life_part_10-43032 Leandra Tejedor

Talk: 19990908-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-shining_the_light_of_death_on_life_part_10-43032 Leandra Tejedor.json Start_time: 01:06:24 Display_question: What suggestions do you have for dealing with an elderly relative who's going through aging and illness, and facing death, in a more immediate way? Keyword_search: aging, illness, death, mother-in-law, mindfulness, father, Alzheimer’s, W.C.Fields, mind, dharma, intimate, mother, Cambridge, North Hampton, letting go, vipassana, metta, lovingkindness, grieving, Boston, Buddha, samvega, urgency, spiritual Question_content: Questioner: What suggestions do you have for dealing with…I am dealing with an elderly relative, who's going through aging, and illness, and facing death, in a more immediate way. Larry: I understand. Of course, the problem is still about you, isn't it? In other words, they have their body, and they have to deal with it. But how you deal, who is it, if you don't mind? Is it someone close to you? Questioner: Yes. It’s my mother-in-law Larry: Okay. How you take care of yourself will dramatically influence how you're able to, let's say, be constructive in this person's. Is she dying, do you think? Could be. Questioner: Very confused… Larry: Okay. You know, it's at all stages. It's at all stages. It's not that you will need a new practice. Do you know the basics of mindfulness, and all that stuff? Yeah. What it is…is whatever you bring to the situation, that is you as a person, and wherever your practice actually is, at this moment, what does this person bring up in you? And here, I don't mean read books, about how to take care of the aged, or I don't mean that they don't have value. Read them. Then finally get to the main book, that all of us have to read, is you. And that is to be read, from moment, to moment. So, let's say is she in the hospital, or an institution? Questioner: Yes Larry: You visit her. It's going to bring up stuff, for you. That's what you practice with, and you practice with it right there, and you practice with it at home. And I've learned a lot here. I'll give you just two examples. I hope there will give you an idea of what's possible. Break_line: One was my father developed Alzheimer's disease, and was in a nursing home for the last three years of his life, from age 87 to 90. My father and I are very close. I was used to a very alert, intelligent. In fact, if I had any problems, he was too alert. Growing up was very difficult because he was like WC. Fields. Don't even know what that children have their balloons bubbles, soap bubbles. He was always puncturing mine, because I was diluted, even more than I am now. And he would just see it, and say oh yeah, right. Do you see what's going on? I said no. What do you mean? Dad punk. And it would just fall for it. And suddenly his mind, the mind I was used to, was confused, contradictory, strange. Not all the time. At any rate, for the first six months, when I would visit him, a number of things went on. Break_line: One, of course, you can imagine, there was some sadness in me, in seeing him this way. What I'm talking about now is, face to face. And I did my best to practice with it, to feel sadness, all kinds of feelings, whatever they were, using the breath to calm myself, to study myself, when I needed it. And then the day came where I saw something just by paying attention. This didn't come from a book, although it's basic dharma 1.1. I saw that I was not intimate with my father, even though I thought I was, underscore thought, because I had put him now into the category of Alzheimer's patient. I had read a lot of books on Alzheimer's, and there he was to some degree exemplifying all the things, that I'd read about. And I was with my father. I was comparing him to how he used to be, and worrying about how he was going to be. And once I saw that, that I was in a sense intimacy was interfered with by a diagnostic category. Break_line: Once I let that go, throw away Alzheimer's patient, there was my father, and he was this way, and it changed things dramatically. What I saw was he had rather extended periods of lucidity, where he was even clearer than in the past, and especially about himself. And there was learning going on at age 70, about himself, and some of it quite something. And he was definitely seeing me. And I was able to see that once the conceptual notions between us, I had him. Break_line: So, you have to see what you come. Let's say you go to visit your mother-in-law. You might have baggage that you walk into the nursing home, or the hospital with, which are already about who she is, and what's happening to her based on past visits, and so forth. If you see that, don't try to banish it. That won't work. And you'll get exhausted. But you can see these things in the mind, if you practice, you can they fall away. And then you're just with your mother-in-law as she is. Break_line: And I was just with my father. And then he would become wacky and irrational. And then all of a sudden, I would be feeding him, and being very protective, and caring, and he'd look up at me with a smile, and he'd say relax, I know you love me. I love you too. Take it easy. I'll go. Oh, duh. So that was one kind of learning. Now it comes out of just our ordinary practice. That's what I'm trying to say. Learning how to live, and learning how to die, or learning how to be with other people's death, to me, is the same thing. This is what's happening. The practice equips you to do it in a much more effective way. Break_line: Another example, with my mother, and this is another one, where even dharma teachings can get in the way. I mean, the first one, medical diagnostic categories. I didn't realize it until now. It may be the same teaching, I don't know. I was with my mother. She was dying. There were my sister, and other family members. We were all with her at her bedside, and we were told that she was going to die any hour. And we came rushing up from Cambridge, this was in Northampton. And it turned out that she lived for many weeks. We checked into a hotel near the hospital, and we were with her, as much as we could be. Break_line: And then finally it looked like it was really very bad. She couldn't breathe. It was belabored. It just seemed like the poor woman. It was just such torment. And I would hold her hand a lot, and this time as I was holding her hand, I gave her a dharma rap about, you know, mom, your body has served you well for 90 years. It's worn out. You don't have to work so hard. You can just let things happen, naturally. Don't worry about... everything is going to be all right. Because she was fighting so hard to stay alive. Every time I would use words like letting go, or mention anything that implied go with the flow, all the new age dharma, her hand would get tighter, and tighter. I could see she was getting more, and more miserable. And what it was is, she didn't want to be told about letting go, and that she was close to death, and that her body was used up, and that it had served her well. And then duh, I got it. Break_line: I dropped this insight vipassana approach, and just another approach, which is part of our practice, much more appropriate. Metta lovingkindness. I reminded her of how loving a person she was, and how we loved her. And then her hand just relaxed. She wasn't squeezing my… I thought gangrene would sit in on my hand. I don't know where she got the strength. And suddenly it relaxed. And she was 90% paralyzed, but a slight smile, and everyone chimed in about she just wanted to be loved up, and to be reminded of how she had been, when she was younger. Break_line: So, do you see though, that both were learned in action, in combat, so to speak? You won't learn them, unless you're committed to being fresh, and awake. So, by all means read technical books, take workshops on grieving, all that because a lot of sensible things are being said, and which the culture needs to hear. But then, finally, it's always the same with practice, even practice. The teachings have to be set aside, guidelines, a sign pointing to Boston, and then just practice. So, what you have to do is look at what this is bringing up in you. Break_line: Now, there's one traditional teaching, from the time of the Buddha on. It's a reflection that affects all of us, when someone is dying. The traditional view is that this is the last present that they're giving you, the last gift. The gift is that they're reminding you, of your own perishable nature. And so, in the light of everything that I said earlier, where we're learning to open up to this obvious truth, they're helping you do that. They're helping you say, you know, you're not exempt from this. Thank you for being kind to me. And I would say that's the main thing is, to help the person's last times on Earth, to be as peaceful, as harmonious, as supported, as possible. Break_line: But they're also giving you something, whether they intend to, or not, which is they're showing you that your part of this. And then, of course, that would depend on, what you do with that. Do you use it to… use samvega to awaken that emotion of the urgency, of spiritual practice? Do you use it to enhance your sense of the preciousness of life, etc. End_time: 01:17:02