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Daniel Adsit is a professor of business ethics at American University in Bulgaria. He also teaches introduction to philosophy. He decided to study philosophy because he was interested in big questions about life and knowledge. He left Canada to pursue a professorship job in philosophy, which was difficult to find in North America. He enjoys living in Bulgaria and prefers the European lifestyle. He experienced culture shock when moving to the United States, but not as much when moving to Bulgaria. He noticed differences in attitudes towards COVID and government trust between Canada and Bulgaria. He was not very familiar with the corruption and unethical behavior in Bulgaria before coming here. He finds teaching students of a different generation to be manageable, but acknowledges cultural differences. He believes that Gen Z students have a lot to share and can learn from them. Hello everyone, my name is Monika and today I am here with... Daniel Adsit. Okay, so can you please introduce yourself and tell us something about you? Yeah, so I am teaching at American University in Bulgaria here in Lugovgrad and I've been teaching here since the fall of 2021 and I teach primarily business ethics although last semester in the spring and then this coming semester in the spring I am also teaching introduction to philosophy. Okay, and why did you decide to study philosophy? Yeah, so from like a young age I was kind of interested in bigger questions like what's, you know, the meaning of life or how can we know what we know, those kinds of questions and in high school I read a couple philosophy books, one of which was a survey of the history of philosophy and I really enjoyed it a lot. So I also knew some people who had studied philosophy, some people around me and so yeah, I figured, okay, I'll see how far I can take it. Okay, and you're from Canada, right? Yeah. And what is your opinion on the country and why did you leave Canada and came here? Yeah, so I mean Canada is a great country in general. I mean, it has some big flaws as well but on the whole it's a great place to grow up and live. I mean, we have pretty good quality of life that's pretty multicultural, especially in the big cities. There's a lot of space, if you like nature, there's a lot of places to go in nature and the people are generally pretty nice. One of the reasons I left, so getting a job like a professorship job in philosophy is quite difficult and so I completely anticipated leaving North America and actually I was kind of excited about leaving like as well, kind of like, you know, visiting other parts of the world. So it was, so then, you know, I looked at a number of jobs. I also, I looked at a number of like American universities. I actually had looked at American University in Bulgaria and thought, oh, that'd be a cool place to teach but then I thought, oh, it only has a thousand students, they're probably not going to hire anyone, you know, they're probably not looking for anyone to teach philosophy. So I applied to some other places like, I don't know, I think American University in Central Asia or Nazarbayev University and like one in Iraq and other places and then a job came up for business ethics at AOBG and I had some experience teaching business ethics both in Canada and the United States and so I applied for it and I got the job and then I'm here and I actually, I mean, I really like it. I like Bulgaria. I like, I mean, I like the kind of European lifestyle a bit more than the North American lifestyle. The North American lifestyle is very like car-oriented, you have your own individual house, you're separate from like other people whereas here it's more interactive, there's a lot more like, it's more people-focused. And did you know about Bulgaria before applying for the American University in Bulgaria? I mean, I knew, I knew it was a country but I didn't really know very much about it, right? I mean, yeah, not, not much at all about Bulgaria. And did you experience some like culture clash when you came in here? How did you feel? Like the people, everything in general. Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, the strange thing is I actually probably encountered more culture shock moving to the United States because I expected the United States to be more similar to Canada, right? Whereas I didn't expect Bulgaria to be similar to Canada. I was expecting it to be like very different, right? So coming in with that expectation, of course, you know, things are going to be very different. And yeah, there's a number of different things like, yeah, like, like for example, here's one, one big thing. Like in Canada, we took COVID very seriously on the whole. So, I mean, when I was flying out of Canada in the Montreal airport, it was like almost all shut down, just a few people walking around, everyone's wearing masks, you know, I was very cautious. Back in my home province, you know, my, my family, even some of my friends, you know, were complaining that the government was being too lenient with COVID and they need to be more strict, right? So then I arrive in Bulgaria and everyone's wearing their masks on their chin, you know, people are telling me, you don't need to wear a mask. And then I'm like wearing a mask. And then people are saying like, you know, you feel like you're making a political statement by wearing a mask. We were like, I just want to protect myself. Right. So, I mean, there's very, like, that was, I mean, a very, very big difference when arriving in Bulgaria. It was just the attitude towards vaccine, the attitudes towards masks in general, and, and that kind of stuff. Like, whereas in Canada, you know, they're like complaining the government's not doing enough. In Bulgaria, people are like, I don't, you know, for example, we went to Sofia at the time, and, and apparently it was a rule that restaurants and bars had to close at like 10pm. And then outside the restaurants and bars, they said, we're not closing at 10pm. I was like, what? Like, what is going on here? So that was, that was actually kind of quite different. And, and a lot of it had to do with sort of distrust of the government. I mean, I think that has historical reasons for people, why people distrust the government. In Canada, there's a lot more trust in the government than I think even in a lot of other countries. But yeah, Bulgarians tend to think that they can be the system and like be the smarter one. So it's something like normal here. And so you're like a, you're a professor in business ethics, and you teach us how to be ethical and stuff. So like, have you, do you know about like Bulgaria, the corruption in Bulgaria and the unethical behavior, which is spread all around Bulgaria? Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I don't know how much I knew before I came here. I, yeah, I don't. I mean, it's hard to say. I don't know how much I knew about it before I came here. I probably would have thought like, yeah, there's probably some corruption, but I didn't know that Bulgaria had like mafia and stuff. And or what people call a mafia or I didn't really know exactly how it works, right? How it's not like, it's not so much like, it seems like gang violence, you know, that kind of corruption, which you might find say in like North American cities. Yeah, more like, yeah, exactly. Kind of that sort of, and then the idea that like people don't want to, there's like a gray or like a gray economy kind of going on. People don't really want to pay taxes, even though the tax rate is here. It's extremely low. I mean, it's only like 10%, right? I mean, in Canada, like it's, it's way more than 10%. I mean, it's like 30, 40%, something like that. So like, it's, it's kind of surprising to me that people don't even want to pay 10%, right? Like, for example, in my home province, um, whenever you buy something, it's, I think right now it's like 15%. So you see the price and you have to add 15% of that in tax. Yeah. So in those states, it depends on the state. Like, so in Canada, it also depends on the province. Um, but in my province, it's like quite high sale tax. And then like, that's, that's more than 10% on every single like purchase, other than some things like books are lower rate, vegetables, fruits, lower rate. It doesn't have any tax or whatever, but, but like, um, yeah. So, so the idea that people don't even want to pay 10% tax, I'm like, oh, you know, like what about your roads? You know, like what about your, um, you know, kind of public services and stuff. How do you want to fund them? But anyway, that's a, that's sort of a cultural difference, I guess. Yeah. Let me go back to the point where we're getting things they can outsmart the system and cannot pay taxes. And, um, so you're like quite on the young side, like you're one of the younger professors here. So how do you like cope with students? Do you find it easier or harder? Yeah. I, I mean, I actually started teaching at a university, teaching my own classes when I was like 24. So, so I, I'm significantly older than that now. Um, so I've kind of just been like, actually as every year goes by, I'm of course older than the students. Um, but when I started, I actually like got a comment or two being like, this guy's like too young or something, you know what I mean? Or he's young. And, and, um, but I mean, I don't find it very difficult actually. I mean, I'm still a different kind of generation. Like I'm technically a millennial. I think students are Gen Z's and there's, there's significant cultural differences between me and the students. Like I don't, I don't use TikTok. I have like absolutely no interest in TikTok. I don't, you know, use Instagram or, or Twitter. Like I just, I, so I don't know, like a lot of the, like what goes on among, I'm, I'm totally like uninformed, partly because I just don't care about a lot of like the trends going on among Gen, uh, Gen Zers and stuff. So there is a bit of difference. It's not like everything's overlapping, you know. And do you think you can learn something from us? Yes, for sure. I think, I think you guys have a lot to, a lot to share. Unfortunately, in the popular conception, I don't know if you're familiar with this, Gen Zers don't necessarily have like the best name. Like, are you familiar with this? You know, like whenever you see articles about like millennials, it's always like, millennials are taking advantage of new things. And then Gen Zers is always like, Gen Zers are plagued with anxiety and are stuck on their phones. You know, it's like, so it's, it's often this like critical stuff about Gen Zers. But I, you know, I really, um, I think you guys have had a, probably even like a more difficult, um, situation right now. I mean, the world's changing so fast. I mean, you've had to undergo COVID, right? Which I never had to undergo as a, as a student, um, like you guys. And, um, you also have all these technology going on. I mean, you have smartphones everywhere. I mean, people are obviously addicted to their smartphones. Um, and you have like the extent of social media. I only joined Facebook, I think like, I think either in my final year of high school or like just after my final year of high school, like right around the end. Um, and that's when I joined Facebook. So I didn't have it in high school. I mean, I didn't have a smartphone until 2000, until I graduated, had my undergrad degree. Um, and actually I didn't have a smartphone throughout my PhD, a lot of my PhD either. I didn't want one. Um, but, but like your generation has continually bombarded with these issues and now it's like chat GPT and all these things. Like it's, it's, it's like on the one hand, some of this technology brings benefits, but on the other hand, it can bring a lot of like problems too. Right. And so it's difficult for your generation to be like navigating all of this. And you have these social media companies which are trying to exploit as much as possible, you know, so they want your attention as much as possible to do everything that you can to keep you on whatever app they've made as long as possible. And, you know, it's working for a lot of people, right? And, uh, it's, it's, it's hard, right? I mean, it's hard when you're continually confronted with things that are designed to make you addicted to them, you know? So I, I think you guys have a, you know, it's, it's, it's, you have probably more struggles maybe than, than the millennials had or something in growing up. Yeah, I agree to a certain extent, because like, if I go on TikTok, I will probably stay there for four hours, let's say, or five hours. And I know it's like dumb, but I still do it. And you mentioned COVID. So what was your opinion on like online classes? Do you think they were beneficial or? Yeah, I mean, I think they had to be done. I think, you know, I believe that we did need to, you know, um, like socially distance and things like this. And the technology was in place to make it easier to do that. I'm, I'm kind of like, you know, even though I like people, I like talking to people and meeting people, I'm still like pretty introverted. So for me, being like locked in an apartment and not being able to leave, like, it sounds weird. I didn't actually mind it a whole lot. So I have a very different approach than other people, like other people, they need to be around large groups of people, they need to be like social and going out and all this stuff. So for them, I have to understand it was like way more difficult for them. And so naturally, they're going to react in a different way for me, because for me, it was just not as difficult to stay at home. And for other people, it was much more difficult. So I just got to recognize, like, the difference in my personality, where I'm like, I don't mind being, you know, trapped in an apartment compared to other people who like, hate it and it ruins, you know, so, so, and there was a lot of like mental health issues going on. I mean, there are teenagers, and this was really bad, like teenagers who, like one in my province, she committed suicide because she forgot what her friends looked like, you know, and so this isolation did have bad effects on people. As far as teaching online, though, I don't like it. I taught at one university in Canada for a year, and they had a policy where you could not force the students to turn on the cameras. So I teach a class and you also couldn't force them to come to class either. There was like, I don't think there was an attendance policy. So I had a class of like 70 people in business ethics, and maybe like 20 would show up 2030. And if I was lucky, one person would have their camera on. So I go and teach these classes, right? And I felt like I was talking to a wall, because there's just a bunch of black screens. And maybe one person if I was lucky, like maybe one, maybe two, right would have their video on and it was just so like demoralizing because you're like, you could say you feel like you could say anything. And it has no effect because you don't see any facial reactions to what you're saying. And then that's the problem, because if you start saying things that are like problematic, you have no feedback, right? You could end up just talking about like nonsense, and you have no idea because. So that was really difficult from the teaching perspective, like not having any kind of facial feedback to see like, are people listening? Are they understanding? And things like that. So, but I mean, I still think it had to be done, at least to some extent, but it wasn't ideal. And I don't like having hybrid classes either. I mean, as you probably know, I don't, yeah. Okay, and so we have been talking about classes, so I have one like follow-up question. In your class, you're like, not strict, but you want us to not use our phones to be functional. So were you like this in university when you were a student? Yeah, for sure. I'm like, you know, I mean, of course, I didn't have a smartphone in university, and there really wasn't that issue as much. But what I've read and what has happened with me too is I find, like they say, with people who use laptops or smartphones in class, even if they're able to concentrate on the lecture, it distracts the people around them, right? And I noticed this with me too, right? If I'm in a class and someone's on a laptop in front of me, and they're like playing chess or poker, I'm just going to start staring at that, right? So they, you know, so one approach is like everyone is just responsible for themselves. So you use your phone, and that's your own responsibility or whatever. But that's not really the way it works, because whether you use your phone is going to affect how other people are able to concentrate and what they expect, right? Or if they see that other people aren't paying attention, then they're going to feel like, oh, I don't have to pay attention either. So I mean, yeah, so I just like, instead of being kind of ambiguous and being like, okay, you know, you can use it if you want or whatever, like, I just try to be like, don't do it. And I've heard from other people, I don't know what you think, heard from other people that some students want you to be strict, because they know they're addicted to their phones. And there's like no way for them to like stop looking at it unless they feel like there's a penalty, you know? And I don't know if this is how you feel or whatever, but I know with some people, this is what I've heard. And like, actually my sister who teaches a bit, she recommended to me that I put like a box in front of the class. Yeah, jailbox for phones. Well, I don't force students to put it in, but they can voluntarily put their phones in because they know that if they have their phone on them, the temptation to look at it is so strong that it will like override other things. And it's, yeah, this is a problem that I haven't really had to deal with. I actually hate, like, I don't like my phone. I don't like having it. I wish I didn't have a phone. But I kind of need it, you know? But a lot of people, it is, yeah, a big issue. I don't know. Like, how do you feel? Like, what's your relationship to your phone? Well, like, sometimes I can like leave my phone and not look at it like for hours. But it's like, it really depends on the situation, because like when I was on vacation this, like, in the break, I was doing some activities. I was going for diving and stuff. And my phone, like, I got a notification that my time on my phone went from like eight or ten hours to two hours. And I was so fascinated. But like when I'm in a lecture, and sometimes like I see a notification, and I'm like, okay, I will have to check it. Because I feel the urge to check it. Or if I'm bored, like, I still check it. So like this, like the jailbox or whatever you call it, I will definitely put my phone in there. But like, I'm not trying like to impress or something, but like your lectures are one of the ones which are like interesting to me. Like, so like finance and stuff, like when I'm in finance class, I'm like, oh, okay, I will have to check my phone. But like, I think it's like a problem for everyone, like the gen Z, it's like one of the general problems, like technology being involved. And like, when COVID hit, and we were in school, we were still using technology, like in order to study, but I remember like my whole class sleeping in the first class, it was like 730 class, and everybody was asleep. And I had to be awake so I can tell them like what's happening. We were just taking like shifts, for example, you stay for 20 minutes, then we'll go online. Yeah, it was online in high school. Yeah, yeah, it was in high school, not here. Okay, wait, you were COVID, you were in high school when COVID started? Yeah, I was 11th grade. And I don't know if you know, but like in Bulgaria, like graduating is something like of a high importance. Like you get into those gowns and suits and like basically go and get wasted. So it was, for me personally, it was really bad, because I was like in 12th grade, and I wasn't in school. And this was my last year, so I felt really sad. But like the previous class, like O1, they didn't have any classes, like 12th grade, because we were at school for some point, but generally we were online most of the time. Okay, wow. So when you graduated, it was like lockdown, right? Yeah. Wow, did that affect your, I don't care if I interview you, but like did that affect your graduation a lot? Well, I was, there was one thing, because in 12th grade, I had like physics, and I was really bad at physics. I sucked, but I tried my best. And like one of my close friends, she was like a genius in physics and math, so we went online, and I had like, I think I had a C, a C and B or something like this. And when we went like in 12th grade, O1, I have like, she was getting this and sending them for me, and I got A in the end. So I was like, okay, that's pretty fun. But I mean, expect physics, I was a really good student. This was the one thing I couldn't do myself, and COVID helped me to a certain extent. Okay, interesting. That's interesting, yeah. Yeah, and now like, I mean, when I was in university, like all our exams, almost all the exams were on paper, right? And now when you say to students, okay, we have to write the exam on paper, people are like, wait, can I, is it open book? Like, how am I going to remember this stuff? How am I going to do it? But like, in high school and university, I remember, I remember like having to read everything and study it and memorize it and everything, because like, you don't know what questions are on the exam and stuff. So it's just differences. And, and here's the other thing. In my generation, the professors would look at us as being lazy, right? 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