And I'll do Facebook so we get that out of the way. I have to say it out loud so I remember. There we go. Welcome along, everyone. Thanks for joining. Guaranteed to be another interesting chat with Liz. Hi, Liz. How are you doing? Hope you're having a good Friday. Yeah, well, it's St. Patrick's Day. Can't be too bad. Oh, true. Yeah. One day when I get a life I'll go out for St. Patrick's Day. Oh, yeah.
Yep. I like the green that you can spend. You sound like Scrooge McDuck. Yep. Okay. We're ready to roll, are we? Yeah. Facebook's up and running. Very good. Now, did you get the section 117? No. Where did you send that? I don't know. I just looked just then and I don't see it. Let's have a look over here. Yeah, give it another go because it's not on the email. I might have sent it to you. Oh, I know what I did.
I meant to send it over. Where the hell is it? I get everything, but I don't think I have it. I sent it to Erica. That's right. Is Erica on, by the way? Not yet. Because for some reason on my other email I don't have your email sort of up in front of me. Oh, I can tell you what it is. Yeah, well, hang on a minute. I'll just send it to my other email address and then I'll send it on to you from there.
Cool. So this is section 117 of the Health Act 1956 and it's pretty darn exciting even though it sounds as dry as. Yeah, it's always exciting. When it comes to you, Liz, it's always exciting. Right. Well, you remember that the importance of section of the Health Act 1956 is that, gosh, it's hard to get over to the other email now, is that it's part six of the Health Act 1956. Actually, if you guys go there. I was going to say I can do that if you want, Liz.
Yeah, I'll go get it. Well, I really wanted the marked up part of it so that people could sort of follow along easily. It's most of part six. It will all make sense, really, when you see this, why everything, you know, how I've always said, well, under the Health and Safety Act, they did, you know, they were acting illegally in workplaces as well. This looks like they were acting illegally in every aspect, the lockdowns, the tracking, the et cetera, et cetera.
Okay. Now, come on. I'm just waiting for it to. I'll start reading it. So these regulations are made under the Health Act 1956. Okay. But they're actually part of the Act itself. The, what would you call it? The actions undertaken under the Health Act are the part that has to be notified in the Gazette. So this is part of the Act. Oh, gosh. And it's section 117 regulations as to public health. The Governor-General may from time to time by order in council make such regulations as may in his opinion be necessary or expedient for giving full effect to the provisions of this Act and for all of, or any of the following purposes.
So this is the Health Act 1956. Now, you'll remember also that under the Health Act 1956, section 92i, which is one of the things that's going to be taken forward in the appeal, in Erica's appeal, the most important thing probably, is the fact that under the Act, you can't, in no circumstances are you allowed to make somebody be treated for any of these public health diseases. All right. Even in an epidemic. So we don't have to go very far down.
I don't know if I'm going to be, I think I'm going to have to come over onto it with you there, because I don't think it's just, it's going to come up. I'll just go, I'll go through it. Um, let's see. So I have to come back over to this email. So part six is, I'll say too far, part six. Right. Okay. So 177. Oops. 117. Sorry. Not 111. 117. A bit further up. There we go.
Now again, down again. Ah, there we go. Regulations as to public health. Right. The Governor-General may from time to time, um, by order and counsel, make such regulations as may, in his opinion, be necessary or expedient for giving full effect to the provisions of this Act, for any and all of the following purposes. Right. Now, this Act also figures in the 2020 Act under section 16. And it is, um, it is the section of the Act where it says, it's called protection of people, you know, basically enforcing the Act.
And, um, and what happens is, it directs you to section 123 of this Act, which is true, it's protection. Um, but if you, um, if in the first instance, you didn't have any designations to carry out anything under the Act, you're really caught. You really had it. Okay. So what should be happening? So there should have been regulations made, and it would have been made by order and counsel. Now, when you go to the New Zealand Gazette, you'll find orders and counsel, but I think the last one was made in about 2017.
So there's definitely no orders and counsel made, right, for these regulations. And of course, there was no, um, designations. There was orders, but there was no one to carry them out. There was no one lawfully, um, allowed to carry them out. So let's have a look at 1171D. So the vaccination of persons for the prevention of quarantinable diseases and other diseases, and the adoption of any other measures for the prevention and mitigation of disease. Okay. But always remembering that the, that you're not allowed to do any of this vaccination, um, if you, if people are made to do it, right? It's never compulsory.
So the management of persons with or suspect of having infectious diseases, including persons subject to an urgent public health order or a court order under part three of their contacts. So this was all about the contact. Um, you know, if you, if you got, went and did one of those tests and you had this thing, this public health disease, um, there should have been a regulation that would have been, would have related to that. The provision of medical aid, transport or accommodation and curative treatment for the sick.
So they're, um, they're imagining, well, not imagining, but I mean, you've got to be sick before you get managed anyway. Transportation and disposal of the dead, right? So this thing of just cremating people, et cetera, et cetera, that, that was supposed to be under the regulations as well, because what you've got, if you've got a disease, a public health disease, that you don't want it, um, spreading around, et cetera, you've got to make special, um, provision.
I believe that when we had, um, Jake, what's it called? It was mad cow disease in people, right? Kreutzfeldt-Jakob disease. That's it. That's it. But I believe that people, the, the, the, the thing was, and I, you'd have to go back a long way, and it was probably in the health regulations there that, um, at the time, and it would have been, um, it would have been, what do you call it, would have been gazetted, uh, that I think you had to have lead-lined coffins if you weren't, if, if you weren't, um, cremating.
Um, H, the isolation or medical observation and surveillance of persons suspected to be suffering from any infectious disease, of persons in charge of, or in attendance on persons suffering from any infectious disease, and of other persons who have been, may have been exposed. So you've got to have isolation and medical, um, observation, right? You're not supposed to just say, stay at home. H.A. Because this isn't even before, you know, this is only a suspect, right? The identification and communication with contacts of persons, this was all about this, you know, they put this fancy thing in place, but they had no, um, they had nothing to do it under.
The prevention of the spread, okay, uh, with respect to any infectious disease, prescribing the period which shall be deemed to be the period of incubation of that disease for the purposes of this Act. Well, you know, this is, this is the thing. They keep changing the time that people had to be isolated, remember? There didn't seem to be any idea about what would be the incubation period. Um, I was looking again, um, because I was working on something today, at the border orders, and when, before the vaccinations, um, came in, the, they didn't get tested or anything until they had arrived here.
So they never tested anybody. So everybody's on the, on the plane together, and they never tested anybody. The tested, tests happened after you got here. And then if you were tested positive for something, you got put in isolation, uh, you got put in quarantine. But if you didn't test, you had to go into isolation, right? But, yeah, so, you know, nothing, nothing made any sense. Um, okay, the clinical, chemical, bacteriological, and other examinations and investigations necessary to determine whether any person is suffering from the disease, or is a carrier of any infectious disease, and whether any person who has been suffering from an infectious disease has ceased to be likely to convey the infection.
So, you know, you would be saying, you wouldn't be just saying, oh, five days, seven days, and, you know, they were having a lovely time, uh, telling everybody this many days and that many days. But they hadn't done any, um, clinical, chemical, bacteriological, or other examinations necessary to determine whether they were suffering from it. They might have done that, what you call it, test, but that, they had no, they had no right to do it anyway, because it was, it constitutes something that was forced on people, and that was a medical intervention which is, was, is unlawful under the Act.
The closing of schools, or the regulation, or restriction of school attendance to prevent or restrict the spread of any infectious disease, right, that's all supposed to be, um, you know, as you say, you had a different school, that they thought, oh, it's, you know, there's something happening here. You'd have to have, under the Health Act 1956, you have to have an, um, a regulation that you then, um, gazette, right, prescribe, because this is how you make sure that you contain the power that these people have.
You've always got to make sure the power is in the right hands, otherwise you get all of these maniacs exercising it, as we found out. Um, P, the regulation, um, restriction or prohibition of convening, holding, or attending any public gatherings, that was supposed to be, um, somebody was supposed to have, um, put that, um, under the Health Act 1956, not under anything else, right, because you remember that, um, a lot of the guy who was doing a lot of this was, um, either Chris Hipkins or, um, or Ashley Bloomfield.
Neither of them were ever, um, uh, you know, were ever put, um, no, under, under the Health and Safety at Work Act or under this, which is kind of like that whole other area which is outside the workplace, public area. Susan, can you mute that, somebody? Yeah, Susan. Um, I'm just trying to get in. Are you? Yeah, I see you. I'm on the telephone, but I'm trying to get onto my computer. Oh, well, you see, if the thing is, Susan, if you have both on, it's your feedback, so you have to close one, one of them.
There we go, got it. You're good. Okay, uh, so prescribing the form and content of the notifications with respect to disease by medical practitioners and other persons and prescribing the fees payable to medical practitioners, veterinary surgeons, or persons in charge of laboratories in respect of such notifications. So, yeah, there's a whole lot of things that they took on that they didn't have any legal right to do. Identifying information, oh yes, now here's something about fines, right? Prescribing for the purposes of section 115, the infringement fee or infringement fees payable in respect of an infringement offense, which in the case of an individual may not exceed $1,000.
So all of this bullshit about $4,000 and then $12,000, they just went crazy, right? If it's an organ, a body corporate, it's not to exceed $5,000. So, you know, I would say to those people, those shops who are now saying, oh, how do I, firstly, they must know that under the Health and Safety at Work Act, WorkSafe itself is liable because that's section 168, right, where they're not allowed to ask for any information about individual workers, right? And then we've got this here, which is 1171, where are we? RB.
Okay, so they can point to that and say, hang on, first you weren't allowed to do it because it was WorkSafe who was doing it, and secondly, you didn't have any regulations that you were working under. You were supposed to be working under the regulations under the Health Act 1956, okay. Prescribing for the purposes of section 116A and for the purposes of the procedure in section, oh, here's the Summary Proceedings Act, okay, the form of infringement notices.
Now, all the stuff about being in public places and dah, dah, dah, and you weren't allowed to and all of that, so you have to go through the procedure in the Summary Proceedings Act, the form of infringement notices, reminder notices for infringement notices, and any other particulars to be contained in the infringement notices. So yeah, they put them all in the WorkSafe, you know, their little forms, but for a start, WorkSafe had no, if it was sent out to you, like I had one, but I just didn't have time to, I didn't have time to fight it, so they just, they just, what you call, they just, they dropped the, you know, the $4,000 stuff and said, oh, you know, we'll be good for another six months and then you won't have to pay anything.
But anyway, that's me, but that was all right because, you know, I didn't have time, I hadn't got this at the time, so there we go, but the people have got it now, and now I believe that Brad Flutey's got himself into a bit of a problem. His problem, however, is that it was private property. A liquor store is not a necessary place to be. It's not a public, a place that is for the public that you need to be.
You need to go to, you can argue about if you go into the supermarket and they trespass you, but you can't argue, in my view, if you go to the liquor store and they trespass you, right? As far as wearing a mask, and this is what we've got to remember, we respect private property. This is what they're trying to get off us, our private property, right? They can't, you know, somebody can say, you know, you do, if you come into my place, this is what you do, this is the rules here, right? I hear that the other charge is to do with resisting arrest or something.
Now that, you know, I mean, I think that this stuff can be pleaded in his defence to a certain extent because nothing like this would have happened if, in the first place, they had used the right act, okay? And they couldn't have put it into workplaces anyway. And probably the guy in the liquor store wouldn't have been caught up in such a frenzy of mask wearing and all of this stuff if he thought he wasn't going to get WorkSafe breathing down his neck, right? Okay? So, in the end, try not to get, you know, we're trying to get the big guys.
We're not, you know, there to, you know, make the small guy pay. Yeah? The prohibition or regulation of the importation of, oh, that's not that one, destruction of rats, mice and other vermin, you see, you can see what the Health Act's about, right? It's about public health, securing and maintaining the cleanliness and effective sanitations of ships and aircraft. None of that got done, did it? They weren't cleaning out the aircraft. They weren't, you know, they weren't cleaning the ships and, you know, saying don't go from place to place, quarantine.
In fact, I think on one of the Zooms I talked about, there was an order where they said, oh, well, if you've got other communicable diseases on board, you know, you can't go. But if it's only COVID-19, you can, right? So, they got an exemption for that. Prevention of pollution, so as to be injurious to health of any river, stream or watercourse. See, all good stuff. Protection of food from infection, that's, you know, selling food that, that, and it's about the packaging and manufacturing, you know, storing, etc.
And that's public health. Inspectors go into shops and do all of that. The organisation of local committees to assist in giving effect to the provisions of this Act in the event of epidemics of disease and defining the powers of such committees. Very important, define the power. Now, how are we going to find out how we define the power? We're going to find out in regulations. So, these are all of the things that you can do under the Act and what the regulations can be about.
Now, if we go down a little bit further, if you will, please. Right now, we're getting down to subsection 2. Where did we get to? Hang on a minute. A bit further. Ah, there we go. Subsection 5. Now, this is a familiar one. Regulations under this section are secondary this section, which includes the whole lot, because remember, we're still on section 117 here. Regulations under this section are secondary legislation. See part 3 of the Legislation Act 2019 for publication requirements.
Can you click on part 3 for us and we'll just have a quick look at that and then I'll be finished bending your ear. Let's go down. So, part 3. So, who does this? Who's the PCO? The Parliamentary Council Office, right? And they're what I call the draftsmen. They write all of this stuff up. Those are the ones that we heard about at 4 o'clock in the morning, moving things around. So, if you had something that was alphabetically prescribed or something, then they would make sure it was in the right alphabetical order and stuff like that.
That's what they do. But they did write this in the first place. Important to remember when we get them. So, what do they have to do? They have to draft legislation for the bills and then, of course, they write up the stuff in the end when it's turned into an Act of Parliament. Drafting of local bills and private bills, draft members' bills, draft the following. D, any secondary legislation made by ordering council. So, those regulations we're just talking about, they draft all of those.
Any secondary legislation that amends to an Act, any secondary legislation, right, any secondary legislation if the Attorney General directs. Now, the Attorney General is probably their boss, right. So, the Attorney General is the big lawyer, right, and that's Mr Parker, Mr Nosey Parker. Okay, if we go down to section 68, then we can find out a little bit more about this. Sorry, Liz, what was that? The next section. Oh, the next section. 68, yep. My doggies are barking.
Okay, power. Oh, no, we don't want that. That's interesting, though, for all you IRD fans. The power to authorise IRD to draft inland revenue bills. So, IRD, by the look of things, and, you know, the tax law is not part of the law of the land, okay. The Governor's because the Governor General may, by order in council, make a recommendation to the Attorney General, authorise the inland revenue to draft inland bills that the responsible Minister directs.
So, inland revenue bills means bills or parts of bills intended to become acts, okay. So, basically, because they have a huge, when they do an inland revenue bill, they're the biggest ones, they're the biggest, they become an act, you know, they become the tax act and everything, but they are so dense that people don't understand them. But I'd say that's a pretty good clue that the Inland Revenue Department, so they're not a Ministry of State, okay.
CC subsection 1, authorise the Inland Revenue Department, okay. They're not a Ministry. Okay. So, let's go to the next one, 69. Now, this is the one that we're arguing in all of our, when we're talking about the, when we're saying this notification should have been deserted, right, this is where it comes from. So, you'll see on the bottom of them, you know, they've got to comply with part 3. So, the PCO, which is the Parliamentary Council Office, must publish all and produce bills, all acts.
This is publishing them, right. Now, they don't have to publish the act, except on the legislature website. It's the secondary things, like the orders and the legislation under the order, okay. So, 69.1c, all secondary legislation drafted by the PCO and minimum legislative information. 2, 69.2, the PCO must notify the making of that secondary legislation by publishing the information required by regulations in the Gazette, okay. Can you go to the next? No, it's not that one. There was something also under the Health and Safety at Work Act about, let's have a look.
The PCO may also publish that it's not drafted as if it were drafted, in this case, sections 1d, minimum legislative information for all secondary legislation, any obligation. Okay, go back to 68. Two minutes. Oh, what did you say? Oh, was it 70 something? Don't go on to 70, will you? Yep. Consolidation, try 71. Go to 72. Okay, the PCO must inform the making of that secondary legislation by publishing the information required by regulations in the Gazette.
Okay, the PCO must ensure that as far as practicable legislation published by the PCO under the Act, including official electronic versions of legislation published under section 78, is at all times able to be accessed at or downloaded from the legislation website free of charge. That's for the legislation website, okay. You probably find on the legislation website, the secondary legislation, but in actual fact that has to be notified in the Gazette because this is thousands of, as I think they say on the parliamentary website, about, you know, 95% of the legislation passed in New Zealand is secondary legislation.
And so, you know, you would never find it. So you just sort of got to shortcut it a little bit. And so you can, you know, you can look at, okay, something's happening that I'm interested in. You can put in a link, you know, put in a search word like individual notification and you'll find out all the individual notifications. I think I was searching that the other day to see if I could see who had been notified as individually needed to be gazetted, you know, if they had an exemption to get into the country, for example.
Well, they don't have to notify in the Gazette if it's for, unless it affects one or more persons, right? Sorry, unless it affects individual persons and they are named persons, right? But what they did was they didn't have to notify if it was a group of persons, not an exemption, but they did. They did. They notified about the Pakistani cricket team, the South African cricket team and the Indian women's cricket team and all their hangers-on, by the way.
Right? It wasn't just, and they didn't have to, they didn't have to go into quarantine. Funny that. Funny that, eh? And I didn't see anything about, you know, groups of DJs being notified. Not at all. So, so basically we've now found, we've found the law about where they've slipped up under the Health and Safety at Work Act. So that covers all of the people who were in the workplaces and we found the law that was supposed to be followed for the rest of you.
So I think that pretty much clears it up. There is an answer to every situation that people might find themselves in. Okay, so now you wanted me to talk about something else and you said to me, have you seen this list? But I didn't get a chance to even have a look at it. It was about the census, wasn't it? And it was somebody saying... Oh, the tracking, all the spyware. The tracking, the spyware, yeah. The online, the online version.
Yeah, when you do that online, a guy steps through, he, I haven't had a chance to look at the software he was using, but it sounds like it's, you know, reasonably readily available. And I think at one stage when he first logged into it, there was like 12 third-party tracking things. Google Analytics was there the whole way through the process. So is this something that he puts on as he does the census to see who's looking? Yeah, as he was doing, filling out the online census form.
Yeah, he could see all the tracking stuff. Yeah, I can, I'll go, I'll go find the story if you like. Yeah, that'd be interesting. Because you remember that Erica told us, because she's the IT expert, told us that Air New Zealand had collected everybody's vaccination status to over 200,000 people who'd come into New Zealand or left New Zealand over the period of the Great Terror. And they'd stored it with their airpoints, in their airpoints, which of course is built up to try and get you to buy things, right, or spend your money at certain places.
And so it's all, it's all shared around. Yeah, sure. 83% what? No. Yeah, so that was 2018. And then 700,000 people failed to complete it then. Right. I've lost the picture. Where's it gone? I was, I failed, I was one of them, highlighting my concerns about its potential for online spying and a couple of posts. And he looks like he's got the links there. This time I naively imagined Stats New Zealand who conduct the census would have taken such concerns into consideration.
Nope. Yeah. But before we begin, quick note about the tools I use. Both are free add-ons for the Firefox browser. NoScript security suite blocks potentially malicious web content, while Lightbeam uses interactive visualizations to show the relationship between third parties and the sites you visit. You can read about it here. Now look, let's look at both in action on this year's census. So this is the tag manager. Just static and YouTube. Yep, so YouTube shouldn't even be having anything to do with it.
God knows what that is. Census isn't Google.com. YouTube.com. So I'm not, I haven't looked into it enough to know what Temp Trusted is. I think Temporarily Trusted is what that is. Right. And then see Google, Google Tag Manager, that's all advertising. That's all about advertising. Yep. YouTube, I mean, why would they need to be part of the census and spying on you? And then look at this. Yep, whole new pack of nasties, DoubleClick.net, all these tag manager again.
Apis.com, that's an interesting name, isn't it? Yep. It's a B. Yep. Yeah, DoubleClick, a notorious advertising data harvester owned by Google. It seems to, it seems I have four more websites to Temp Trust. Yeah. So it just sort of gets. I'd now time to enter my 12 character access code and click start. This is a comforting welcome message. Thank you for taking the 2023 census. The information you provide will be kept protected and protected by the Data and Statistics Act 2022.
Whoops. So once you, once you accept it, Google Analytics stayed. Yep. Okay. Yeah. What is your gender? Other gender. Yeah. So now let's look at where I'm using Lightbeam to provide a graphic overview of the interconnected nature of the site. Here's what it looks like by the time you start entering your personal data. Third party requests, 11. Yep. Really private, not. After just two website visits, I now have 10 third party connections. One is apparently duplicated.
Here's an animated what's what. I'll look at that. That shows all the various ones that are. Well, remember, remember the Internet was was designed by the Department of Defense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. YouTube, also owned by Google, is now connected to the page where I enter all my personal data. The picture gets more complicated if I actually visit the YouTube site. There now seems to be a direct connection between my census data page, Census HQ and YouTube.
Fantastic. Yeah. Google Analytics connection. To me, the most worrying aspect of the online census is how Google Analytics follows every page of personal information that's entered. Yeah. Tracks and reports traffic. Yeah. I mean, I've used Google Analytics in a business, so it had nothing to do with the census whatsoever. Oh, there we are. There we are. Jeff, there's the link. Jeff Palmer. Jeff Palmer. He sounds very much like he's related to Judge. And surely Jeff has not gone good in his old age.
No, I don't know. I don't don't know what the guy's background is. Again, I haven't. But I'll put the link up and then I think we've got good reason to say why we don't want to do it. Yep. Ain't confidential. I want to do it online. We'll do the paper for you, but I wasn't there, so somebody else must have done it. I wasn't at home. Nobody home. Yeah. But if I'd done it, I would have just put not applicable on everything.
Yeah. She took mine away before I even could just about blink an eyelid as soon as I said I wasn't home on the night. How would I do a trespass notice, Liz? What's the start of the process for that? Well, you know, the trespass notice is just go to the Trespass Act 1981 and there's a form there. You can fill it out. You can even take it to the police and trespass them. Quite tempted to do that.
And register. Well, what you do is you register it down at the, and then if the person that you've told don't come near, comes near, because you need to know their name, you can call up the police and say, hey, I've got a trespass notice out on this person. I should have got the person's name, really, but yeah. They were visiting everybody. It was a woman in a, I know what car she was driving. Yeah. But yeah.
Well, they were told, run, I think, if, you know, anybody had their trespass. We did. Signs up. She didn't even see it. Take a picture. Tell them to say cheese. Yeah, I get a bit annoyed and then I forgot to do what I should have done. Yeah, I was trying to rescue my dogs from getting run over. Oh, right. Because, yeah, come blast. Even though the gate was shut and they drove another 50 metres to get to the house.
Yeah. Interesting. Cool. Jeff's got his hand up. Yeah. Hi, Jeff. Yeah. You can do an immediate verbal trespass while they're there. Because this is what New World did to my friends and what the cop did to me. He said, you trespassed. That was it. They never got anything in writing from New World or the cops. I did tell her. I did tell her that. Did she see the signs? Yeah, you're supposed to. The legal way is to warn them three times.
Anyway, so that was that. What I wanted to ask you is, particularly when you're looking, I think, through that section 92, could a mask be considered a compulsory treatment or would that be a stretch? Yeah, it could be. Yeah, but you see, the thing is that I believe that the best one, oh, I mean, you were talking about a mask in a supermarket. The supermarket, yeah, I mean, when I was talking about Brad's situation, a supermarket, you have to go there.
Most people have to go there. And it's considered, if you look at the trespass cases, because that's the best way to get an idea of it and to argue it is to know what the cases have said. Supermarkets, unless you're doing something really naughty and, you know, you've done it before and I've got, they're not supposed to be trespassing people. And they will lose in court. It's not the trespass side of it I'm curious about. Oh, the masking.
It's that, could a mask be considered? A compulsory treatment. Well, it kind of, it comes back to trespass to the person, actually, because it's a, all this is tort law. Okay, T-O-R-T law. So even a touch can be considered in tort law a trespass to the person. So, but you put it on yourself. This is a difficulty, you know, because I was also asked, but what about section 89A, I think it is, of the Criminal Law Act, the Crimes Act.
And that thing about, what would you call, wearing a mask, you know, suffocation. Oh, suffocation. Yeah, but if you put the thing on yourself, I don't think you've got a snowball chance in hell with that one. Because it's, that law was designed after those horrible sex crimes and people being suffocated and stuff, right? So covering them. What I'm wondering, what I'm wondering about it Liz is, can I, would it be feasible to include that in my case with the Human Rights Review Tribunal against New World and the Cops? Saying, look, they tried to compel me to wear a mask.
And you, no? No, unless they grab hold of you, you know, this is the thing, Jeff. Nobody can say to you, don't do something. But I'm saying to you, you asking my advice, I think it's, I think it weakens all your cases to go off on a tangent like that. It makes you look daft, right? And not you, but I mean, makes us look daft when we, you know, we do, you know, this stuff about standing in certain places or, you know, in the end, it's what is the reality? Always what's the reality? That's what the court's going to look at.
And don't worry about the courts, you know, and the corrupt judges. They're going to get their comeuppance. They're already going to be quite shocked when they find out that they're going to have to rule against, you know, they're going to have to find that, yeah, there was no law, that there was no proper secondary legislation put in place. Which is what all of these things have to come on under. Okay. Well, it's not the actual court, it's just the Human Rights Tribunal.
Yeah, no, that's a court. Well, I mean, you know, there's kind of people say, yeah, but they're not under there and authorities apparently are not courts. The tribunal is a form of court. If you look at their rules, you know, they have, for each of them, they have, you know, the rules of this tribunal and the rules of the disputes court and tribunal, etc. They have a level of, you know, they're allowed to use the Evidence Act and all of that sort of stuff.
But you've got to remember, they've got to, they have to not do one thing outside of it. And it's the procedure of the court that is often going to catch the court. Because, you know, they're not allowed to hear, like you'll hear, no jurisdiction. And that is a really powerful thing because that's their whole reason for being, to have jurisdiction. If they haven't got jurisdiction, they've got a real problem. You shouldn't be, you know, but I would go to the court and tell them, don't stay away and, you know, shout it from the sidelines and say I'm a straw man or something.
You know, that's not the way to go. You go there and you know what you, you know, what your rights are. And, you know, engage with them, engage with them. That's what you did that day. You went there to the court and talked to them and they had to back down, didn't they? There was no, you know, they didn't have to come after you and bloody put a warrant out for you, all sorts of stuff like that.
They didn't have to charge you with contempt of court because you got all cheeky or anything. The courts have got to be, the courts have got to be orderly because otherwise, you know, it'll be mayhem. And people who want to go there and get justice are going to be really disadvantaged. I didn't get the chance to be cheeky. What's that? I didn't get the chance to be cheeky. Well, that's right because you were so on, you were so on to it straight away, you know, so on to it.
Any questions about Section 117 of the Health Act 1956? Of course, go back and have a look again at Section 92, which forbids, you see, what they did was they called things different names and put everybody off the track. If they'd called it public health matter, the public health crisis, we would have been on to it. They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women.
They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women. They're being lodged against women. Look at section 1684 of the Health and Safety at Work Act.
And WorkSafe, as the regulator, may not ask for any information about a worker. So from memory, the guy who called me up, he's got a restaurant, and it was about who's wearing masks and who's not. WorkSafe is forbidden by law to ask that question about people's medical status. So I said, he said, oh yeah, but they've told me I've just got, you know, it's too late. I should have, I said, no, I said, if they've issued a fine, you've got a right to defend yourself.
So I said, go and tell them that. And he came back a bit later and said, oh, the bailiff says this is the form and has sent it to me. I said, just fill it in. This is my defence. Under section 168, subsection 4, the Health and Safety at Work Act, you have no right to be asking for information about my workplace. Or me. Yep. Okay. So, yeah, you don't have to lodge anything. They come after you and then you get paid.
Sorry. Can I just ask you one other quick question, Liz, before we go? I'm working on an insurance situation at the moment. And the individual concerned has been asked by her insurance company to provide a medical certificate or information from the doctor confirming that the pills medication she's on doesn't impair her driving. Now, does this come under this not having to provide you medical information? The insurance company wants it. Yeah. Well, if the person wants insurance, they're going to have to… No, no, it's in connection with a claim.
Oh, a claim. Yeah, probably. If she's claiming, they want to know that she's got whatever it is. Or there's been so-and-so injury. Because otherwise you could just claim, couldn't you? So they want to know the confirmation from the doctor that the pills she's taking don't impair her driving. Oh, okay. Well, that's information from her doctor then. So she'd have to give permission for her doctor to see that. Right, but they're saying she's got to get it from the doctor.
Yeah, well, probably. Otherwise, she'd have to give permission for them to get it from the doctor. Right, okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Oh, yeah, by the way, sorry, 681684 is without the full consent of the person that you're asking for the information about. Right. So, of course, everybody who didn't want to get vaxxed or everybody who didn't want to get data, they're not going to give permission to their boss to give the information to WorkSafe or to anybody else for that matter.
Okay. So, you know, all of the people who talked about, and, you know, it's kind of a, oh, gosh, what, what, this is, you know, well, they said, oh, even if you don't supply it, we're going to then assume you're not. But then, of course, they're stuck in the trap of, well, you know, if they were a public service business, you know, like, you know, a hospital or something, then the person who was supposed to be ordering their boss to get them vaxxed didn't have any authority either.
So, they're, you know, whichever way you cut it, you had it. Good news, we're getting them lining up to settle. They don't want to go to the authority. We've still got the various squealy pigs lawyers saying, oh, Health and Safety at Work Act, the authority's got no jurisdiction, the authority's sort of bumbling around, but they'll get the, you know, it's getting through to them now, that, of course, they do, and they're going to get sick of this soon.
But we've probably got a few more law firms that need to be informed that, you know, they've been given their employers, in terms of, you know, the people who employed them to do this work, the wrong advice. So, it's going to be really interesting, I think, you know, how many big law firms are going to be coming in for a lot of money, a lot of money, because of giving poor quality advice, not fit for purpose.
Okay, so, who's here? Anybody else? Don't be shy, because if you are, I'm heading off. Oh, Robin. Hi, Robin. Hi, Liz, and everyone else. Thanks again. Liz, I was just talking to someone today, and she's outside the 12 months for the human rights. She was a former nurse at a private hospital, and we sort of talked about some of the conversations that we'd had around the class action equivalent in New Zealand potential. And also, what I wanted to ask you was, three years for health and safety civil case, and six for contractor, she would come under the three.
Is there anything happening that you know of around the health and safety, as far as actually through the civil court, through the district court? The district court? No, but there will be, because if you look at, which one was it, Em, that we talked about? Maybe it was last Friday. We talked about Project CALS, which is C-A-L-S, class action lawsuits. The union is going to make common cause with them, and they're going to handle those class actions.
And I think now that we really know what part of the law we're dealing with here, that those class action lawsuits are going to be successful. There we are. Somebody's put that up. Ness has put it up for us. Cool. Thank you. What about Matt Shelton, Dr. Matt Shelton's case? Is that something different? Well, Matt Shelton, you know, he got his license back, and it seems like it is a kind of a foreshortened license, if you like.
They're still trying to heavy him. If he wants to get in touch. No, I was just kind of thinking along the lines of what Robin was saying. Well, he, you know, I mean, I did a strikeout application for, they were trying, you know, because the big bogeyman for them is the Medical Practitioners Disciplinary Tribunal. That's the one that can take the licenses away, right? And I did a strikeout application and said to them, and they said, oh, we've done this before.
And I said, yeah, I know you have, and you did it wrong. And that was, so they heard the strikeout application, and they've not been back. So the actual hearing is supposed to be in August sometime. But we, you know, I think they're a bit of a rock and a hard place because, of course, especially those, the Medical Council. I know Matt put in a hell of a lot of work and other doctors put in a hell of a lot of work trying to bring to the attention of whoever would, you know, they thought would listen to the dangers of this vaccine.
Remember they did all that work with looking at the blood and what was occurring in the blood and all of this horrible stuff that was going on with blood. And, of course, all of the information worked really hard and it was all ignored. Now, I think there's been enough cases that, you know, the vaccination has been linked to mayhem and destruction of the human body. And the fact is that these Medical Councils, the Nursing Council, the Midwifery Council ignored it.
Professional councils ignored it, right? They were told and told. Now, if you do that and someone gets hurt, you can be sued. And I think you probably get sued under the Health and Safety at Work Act. It's the best place to sue them. And, you know, WorkSafe is supposed to do it. But as I've said with WorkSafe, they can't really because they're going to be sued themselves. So these private prosecutions, I think, will happen. And I think class actions for those are particularly suitable.
Yeah, you're right, Alicia. There's an extremely powerful piece of legislation, and that's because it came to us out of the hands of those men who died. They gave their lives for that. They didn't know, of course, at the time, but they've left us a terrific legacy, the Pike River men. So, and we're still getting in terms of what are the other side arguing at the moment? Oh, that rubbish that was put into the strikeout, successful strikeout against Erica about what's the role, you know, and then the judge comes back with, well, you're not a worker.
You know, they're even trying this in the case of workers. They seem to think, I think they're a little bit confused with the word worker because they won't bother themselves with looking at the Health and Safety at Work Act because, of course, the employee as worker, okay, is the first one. Then the second one is, and this is in Section 19 of the Act, will give you all of the definitions of all of the people who are covered, even volunteers are covered.
Now, one case that's, and sorry, I was going to say why the, you know, the professional bodies are in such strife is because they let people be hurt. And we've got case law that puts people in jail for that already. Well, it has the potential to anyway, even in a civil situation. And that is that case I've talked about a couple of times, Just Pilgrim. And that was one of the, the principal of Gloria Vale School.
And the other teacher, he signed the piece of paper that got him his license back after he got out of jail. Because he knew exactly, because the sexual assault that the guy had been in jail for, the teacher had been in jail for, happened at that school. So he knew exactly what, who the guy was and what was going on. And he signed him off. And the teachers council said that when it was taken before their disciplinary tribunal, you didn't put the health and safety of the children first, right? So, all of these bodies are in trouble, either criminally or civilly.
And I hope somebody tells Matt Shelton. Okay. Fantastic. That's great. I think we're done for tonight. Are we? Yep. Sorry, there was something else about Gloria Vale. Hang on a minute. Just a minute, Liz Conway. I'll talk to you in a minute. There was something else about Gloria Vale. There's those people, those women in court at the moment, who are trying to come under the Health and Safety at Work Act. They want to be declared, they have been, you know, what they say is they've been in slave-like conditions.
And the other side, the lawyer for the other side, I don't know how anybody could take a case like this, but I guess everybody has to have a chance under our system. They have to have a chance for defence. You know, saying, no, you're volunteers. You're volunteers. Now, but what nobody seems to have pointed out to him, and maybe somebody should who's lawyering for these women, that volunteers are covered. It's only if you employ nobody that you can have a purely voluntary situation.
But I'm pretty sure that they will have paid somebody for something, that Gloria Vale School Trust, or whatever the hell they were. Yep. So, and I mean, Erica found it. In her case, Telco Tennis Club had paid their cleaner and probably paid their account of bookkeeper. Yeah, and probably their grounds people and all sorts. Yeah. So, because I think Gloria Vale does run as a bit of a business. I don't know too much about it. Well, somebody put that.
The online census version allows people to leave sections blank. Yep. Leave them blank. There you go again. There's more than many, many ways to skin the cat. Liz Conway, you were asking about something. Had I answered the question, you came in late. What was it? Oh, the census. Does she have to do it? Oh, it was the census, was it? Okay. Yeah, fine. Yep. Yeah. So, yeah, well, the, yeah, well. There's many, many ways, Rick. You know, you weren't there.
Not leave blanks. Not applicable. Section 381 of the Criminal Procedures Act says you're immune and protected from civil and criminal liability. So that's always a good idea. Yeah. Well, we've got, we've got a couple of, we've got a couple of union members that are arguing about masks at the moment. And I don't think Karen is on this evening, but she was talking about, I think it was Clause 15 of, was one of the last remnants of the masks wearing and all of that carry on in hospitals.
And the, under Clause 15 is an interesting one. Now they're saying, oh, it's part of our policy, you know, but they're not basically. Hospitals are not private shops like liquor stores, right? They can't make these sorts of rules out of thin air and say it's our policy. Under Clause 15, when it was still in place as, you know, part of the traffic lights or God knows what it was called. The only people who had to wear masks were visitors to the hospital, so patients and staff were excluded.
I don't quite understand this mask thing in hospitals, Liz, because I had to go down to one great hospital on a job last week. And I'm wandering around the hospital, no mask, obviously. There's all these hospital staff wandering around, some wearing masks, some not wearing masks. They go into the cafeteria, take the masks off. It just seems pretty much a free for all. You know, they watched too many doctors and nurses movies when they were young.
You know, it was, he was supposed to look like, you know, somebody who was doing something important. We didn't wear them for dressing people, as far as I know, you know, putting dressings on wounds or something. But there were situations where you wore masks, and I think it was in the surgery. I think it was in surgery you wore masks. It was the only thing. So you look like a surgeon if you're walking around with a mask on.
This is what goes on in their heads, I think. You know, particularly important, yes. Particularly stupid people. Even the ones with the moth and bucket wear masks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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