The Yogi and The Hypnotist Episode 1: Addictions

John and Jennifer Ferrante have started a podcast called "Yogi and the Hypnotist" where they discuss topics related to neuroscience and mindfulness. They decided to create the podcast because they have these conversations at home every day. They recently bought some spark plugs and drain plugs and shared a microphone while recording the first episode. Jennifer talked about her app hygiene and how she only has one game on her phone called Qblock, which she uses as a digital fidget tool to keep her hands busy while listening to something. They discussed the importance of having an environment that supports habits and goals, such as avoiding temptations like sugar or alcohol. They also talked about their personal struggles with certain foods and how they try to resist them. Overall, they emphasized the importance of creating a supportive environment to achieve personal goals. Welcome to the Yogi and the Hypnotist podcast, where neuroscience meets mindfulness. I'm John Ferrante, meditation teacher and yogi. I'm Jennifer Ferrante, clinical hypnotherapist and neuro-linguistic programming practitioner. Together, we will blend modern cognitive science, Jungian psychology, and timeless spiritual wisdom and practice. If you enjoyed the show, please hit that follow button to be notified of upcoming episodes. Happy Friday, John. Happy Friday, Jen. This is our first episode of the Yogi and the Hypnotist podcast, and we decided to create this podcast because we have these conversations at home every day, but we thought, why not record them? Why not? Yeah. And we have a microphone. We have headphones. Only one microphone, so we're sharing it right now. Hopefully, someday we'll get two. Two mics, maybe two headphones. If you'd like to sponsor this podcast, we'll get two microphones. Sponsored by Amazon. So we bought some spark plugs today and drain plugs. Oh, that's a good start. And you didn't even want to get out of the car. You hate waiting in the car, but also hate going inside stores. It was conventional. Podcast conventional. Well, the last two times I went to O'Reilly, you decided you were going to stay in the car. It's true. It's true. And yet, the UPS store, you went inside. Well, I had to mail something for that, or I might have. Yeah. If you could have given me the address. Yeah. Yeah. I'm an antisocial person who loves people one at a time. I love people one at a time. Yeah, in theory. I really genuinely and deeply care about people one person at a time. Wonderful. A room full of them. I care about them, but I'd rather be out in the car. But you care about me, so you would rather be with me than waiting out in the car. I'm still laughing. You're still laughing. If you're being abandoned. I do for you. Yeah. No, I have an equal distaste for waiting. As long as it's going to be on things, Jen doesn't like waiting in crowds. Waiting. Yeah, waiting in the car. That's just as uncomfortable as going in and having to make small talk. Yeah, I like waiting. I feel like since 2007, when I got my first iPhone, I was like, oh, I'll never be bored again. It's like, okay, you can just get on your phone. It's a whole different level of boredom. Really? Passivity. Yeah. What does Qblock do to your brain? Well, listen, Qblock is literally, I hate apps, you know. So for those of you who don't know, my app hygiene on my phone, I hate apps. If something asks me to download an app, I'm extremely resistant because I don't like a cluttered phone. So I want my screen to be just like the main things that I use, and I don't want a ton of apps. Your apps on your phone drive me daddy because you have so many of them. It's just the right amount. So many. I don't know how you find anything. And they're nested, like within. I have like nine apps in each little icon. It's like a fractal universe. You get into the one nest, and it goes deeper, and there's another nest, and then there's another nest. I just want to simplify only the basics. Only what I use every day. I just don't want to have to swipe through multiple pages. We're going down a rabbit hole. Qblock game. I have one game on my phone. One. And it is Qblock game. And the reason why? Well, the reason why is because I have auditory processing issues. Weird thing number three today. Don't like crowds. I don't like waiting. And I have auditory processing disorder. So because of that, if I'm listening to something, I have to keep my hands busy or my brain just like disengages and checks out. So I really don't even like look at the score or anything to do with the game. I'm just moving block pieces around so that I'm keeping my hands busy to listen to the thing that I'm listening to. That's why I have Qblock game on there. Right. Because it gives your hands something to do. It's like a digital fidget tool. It basically is a digital fidget, yes. Yeah. Because when I click the coffee cup, it drives you crazy. Yeah. And it's silent. So you should love the Qblock game. Right. Yeah. There's worse things to be playing with. Yeah. Tapping nails. Kind of annoying. And then, yeah, like fidgeting, flipping things. Like particularly travel bugs, opening and closing them. Yeah. They can be noisy. Yeah. Or on the road. So, yeah, the silent fidget toy, Qblock. Yeah. That's pretty much all that, like, I've been trying to really curate and use my phone less. So I guess that is a pet peeve of mine as much as you don't like the, like, noise chatter of me flipping and flicking things. When you check out into your phone, like, that's probably a pet peeve of mine. Like, oh, okay, we're not engaging anymore. We were done, I guess. Yeah. And then you feel that into your phone, too. You're like, well. Often, yeah. That's hard. Like if you're with somebody, and this goes for all, like, social interactions. If you're sitting at a table with someone and they pick their phone up and they start going through their phone. Well, you can sit and stare at them going through their phone, but that feels weird. Or you can stare off into space. Or then what naturally happens is you pick up your phone. And when you're trying not to use it, that can be really hard. And recently we've had stuff like that with a lot of different situations where one or both of us are convicted about something, and it's very hard to do it without the other person being on board. Like when you went to the food fast, or I wanted to change our morning routine and get up earlier, and you wanted to energize and do meditation. So we have to, like, kind of merge on the things that are really important so we feel like there's support in doing them, even if we're not doing the same thing because we think very differently. Like because I'm a vegetarian, you eat far less meat than you did before. Far less, yeah. Even though you're not a strict vegetarian, it did change your diet just by proximity, by sharing meals. Definitely. It's just hard to prepare something just for you or just for the kids, oftentimes. And you do continue to eat meat, and I'm fine with making something separate for myself. But it is nice to just make one meal that everybody will eat, which seems to be impossible. Yeah. It's not something that everyone likes. But yeah, let's explore a little bit of when you set something, set an intention, set your mind on something. So let's talk about conscious will and willpower. How important is it to have an environment that supports that habit or goal? And how can we be the environment for the people we love for them to feel supported in? Yeah, definitely not having a temptation around is helpful. Like if I'm trying to avoid sugar, having certain foods around, just sitting out particularly, are kind of hard to resist. The kids love my cheese danishes and request them all the time. So if we get those, I'm bound to have one, even though it's not really my favorite thing. It just seems to call to me at some point. And certain candies, cookies are like that too. And that is one reason I wanted to do the fast, to free myself of that sugar addiction, which I did. And after that nine days, I was like, okay, I'm totally free of any attachment to food. But mentally, I was like, well, I still enjoy those things and I want to eat them. So I ended up falling back into the same kind of eating patterns that I did before that fast. So it was interesting that it did clear the addiction and made space if I did want to make the change. But I did kind of fall into old eating habits. So bread in particular is one of my favorite foods and something I probably eat every day. And having that around just makes it really hard. The smell of fresh baked sourdough is kind of irresistible to me. But eventually you get to a place. And I was gluten free for years. And our oldest was gluten free. Right. So I know she doesn't crave bread when she smells it cooking because she associates it with pain. She's been off it for so long too. She knows that if she eats that, it's going to hurt. And I never had that kind of reaction. But I just noticed like a slow weight gain. The more I would eat bread, then slowly I would just put on pounds. So I would like to give that up. And I know you've talked about stopping wheat at some point too. Yeah. I'm less drawn to bread, I think, than you are. But I have my own things that are harder to resist than others. Like usually you'll bring a cheese danish up and I will want to eat it. But I can resist that. And I can resist most pastries, cookies, cakes. Not that those things are bad. But when I'm wanting to not eat as much sugar or eat as many desserts, I'm able to withstand that. But, man, the night that we were watching X-Men and you and the kids all had ice cream, that was significantly harder than watching you guys eat a cookie or a cheese danish or something like that. I had to actually physically remove myself from the room. I couldn't just sit there and watch you guys eat it and not eat it. I even got to some and was like, yeah, let's share this. I know, it was so hard. Good for you. I'm really proud of your willpower and being able to resist that. And sometimes that's the best remedy is just leaving the situation. Right. And I've been sober for many years and I just avoid situations where there's alcohol. I don't go to bars or clubs, parties where everybody's drinking. I have no interest in it. But also that's just like a temptation. If somebody puts a drink in front of you, it's almost like a reflex just to have it, to try it. And particularly if it looks good or smells good, tastes good, then the temptation is a lot greater. So just being careful with your environment and making sure that it's supportive of your goals. So avoiding places that might bring you down. Certainly if you're trying to avoid sugar, walking into Marble Slab Creamery is not a great idea. Oh, man. There are certain places that are going to trigger that addiction. Just maybe the smell of fresh baked donuts or something might be that trigger. Sure. Yeah, sometimes when you have a craving, you're driving by and all the signs are just going to pop out. And now it's pretty convenient. You can just drive through to that Krispy Kreme. Warm, hot. Yeah, hot now. Light on. Yeah. You can drive through. So I haven't done that, I don't think ever, but I can see that it's compelling. Yeah. I have it myself, but I remember as a kid, there was a Krispy Kreme next to the Cracker Barrel, which was on the way to my parents' work growing up. And I remember my dad being like, oh, it says hot. Like our car pulling up. You know, we got to go. But I don't think as an adult, although sometimes we do Saturday morning donuts, and that is one of the harder things to not want to eat with the kids. Right. I did notice that when I was wheat free, like all the free food that's sitting out, like it's always free donuts, free like cupcakes, cakes, like pizza is often free. It just never tempted me. It was never healthy food that was given out. But by not eating wheat, I just didn't even see it as food. And that was really helpful. So even though the environment wasn't necessarily supportive, which many people's workplaces, you probably can celebrate a birthday every week. And like every week we're going to have a cupcake. That's probably not going to be the best for your waistline. But it made it easier when I had just committed to being gluten free. And it's rare that you actually would find a gluten free cupcake or gluten free pizza that would be decent. Much less tempting. Right. Much less tempting. And if you only allow yourself the indulgence when it appears, then it's far less frequent that there's going to be a gluten free bundt cake or something that you can have. So let's talk about from our different modality approaches that we look at things with our clients for addiction, one of those. Hypnotherapy is very known for helping quit smoking, smoking cessation, weight loss, addictions of all sorts. And so, you know, approaching it from a neuroscience perspective of why do we get addicted to things? I can talk on that a little bit. And then I'd love your perspective, because really your yogic practice has helped you quit a lot of things. So do you want to give some perspective on the kind of the steps of things that you have decided to stop that you would say were addictions? Well, probably the most powerful addiction that I felt was to tobacco. And after being able to finally quit smoking cigarettes, and it took me about eight tries to finally kick it for good, it gave me a whole lot more willpower and self-confidence that I could make positive changes in my life. And also I felt like smoking was in some way suicidal, because I knew it was going to hurt my longevity, it was going to decrease the time that I had. And at the time, it's like, well, I didn't really mind. It felt like that was so far off. And the immediate gratification of a cigarette just felt more compelling than knowing that, well, this is taking years off the end of my life by smoking now. And by committing to that and deciding once and for all to quit, and something Wayne Dyer said seemed to help me. It seemed very simple, but I'll share it, because it did work for me. It was, if you want to quit smoking, stop putting cigarettes in your mouth. It's like, okay, if I just stick to that, if I just never put a cigarette in my mouth, it will be really hard to go back to it. Because every time, like I said, it took me eight tries to finally quit, it would just be one. You'd make one exception, and then the next day I would be at the store buying another pack, and I would be back in. And I said, well, since I spoke last night, I'm going to go ahead. And you've already fallen off. And I know with alcoholics, it's kind of that same way. As soon as you give in, then you fall off the wagon, and you continue drinking. So that's kind of the way it was with cigarettes until I finally committed to that, and I decided to do the same with alcohol. And I think that was probably the next major commitment, that I decided I'm not going to drink again. And at the time, it was really to be in support of my partner, who I felt had some issues with drinking, and they committed to not drinking as well. And that was really supportive, having someone that was on board and saying, yeah, let's not drink. Because if you've ever been in a relationship where one person is and you're not wanted, it kind of feels deceitful, if they're, like, secretly hiding some behavior from you, which had happened with a previous relationship. Or it can just lead you to that temptation. Say, well, if you're drinking, you know, I want to be in the same vibration with you. And they will kind of bring you down with them. So that was really helpful, having a partner to commit to that. And I noticed that people around me began to become sober, not really with me proselytizing or telling them that they should, just telling them that I don't. And then slowly it seemed to work on them, and more and more of my friends decided to quit drinking. And I wasn't hanging out at the bars anymore or being surrounded by that. But when somebody would offer me a drink, it would just be an opportunity to say that I don't. And later, you know, through my spiritual practice and my commitment, that felt very supportive of the yogic practice. Because I realized that, you know, alcohol and cigarettes were bringing me down and lowering my consciousness, and not really very uplifting their depressants and stimulants. But the more... Did your mind feel more clear as well? Yeah, yeah, really. One of the biggest motivators for me to quit alcohol was I noticed in the morning, after I had had a drink, and usually no more than one or two glasses of wine, but I just felt groggier in the morning. It was harder to wake up. I didn't feel as clear. And I didn't want to meditate first thing in the morning. And that was very important to me and something that I wanted to commit to. It wasn't worth the mouth pleasure of having a glass of wine to deny myself the experience of joining with God in meditation. So I gave up drinking and haven't gone back. It's been, I guess, over five years, maybe six. And I will never go back. Same with smoking. Occasionally, like I said, if a drink was put down before me, I might reach for it or if there's wine, I might smell it. But it just hasn't shown up. And fortunately, I haven't been tempted. Nobody has been pressuring me to do that. So that's been really supportive. And perhaps that's God or Guru helping me to keep that at bay. But I really don't feel tempted by those things. I also gave up coffee, which was very important to me, something that I would just look forward to. It would get me out of bed. I was thinking about the first cup of coffee and that would motivate me to start my day and get the energy. So I felt like that was also an impediment to meditating first thing in the morning. And by giving that up, I was able to meditate in the morning before needing to start the day with coffee or having breakfast and eating. And then by that time, it was time to rush on to work. And I didn't make meditation a priority. So by quitting coffee and also proving to myself that that didn't hold me, even though it really felt like a pretty strong addiction, and I hadn't been drinking coffee since college, so maybe 20 years or so, just about every day, sometimes one or two cups. So that was pretty difficult to do. But with the detox diet, I was able to stop that addiction to coffee. Also to eating meat. I never thought I would be a vegetarian. I never thought that it was healthy to do so. You grew up eating meat. Yes. That wasn't like a practice that you were... Right. My parents still eat meat and encouraged me to do so. That was like part of a well-balanced meal. And I had a lot of beliefs around nutrition, saying that that was important and that there were a lot of nutrients that you couldn't live without. And so I had to overcome a lot of those type of beliefs. And through my spiritual practice, my teacher Paramhansa Yogananda taught to eat a vegetarian diet. And that's very common in India, but not so much in America. And culturally, it was difficult because pretty much every meal that was served was centered around meat. And just, you know, vegetables were kind of a side or an afterthought, not the main course. So I did have a hard time with that and didn't think that I ever could. And I really didn't like how animals were being treated and praised for food. So that had bothered me. So I had considered maybe doing hunting for meat and got a compound bow, started practicing with it, and thought, you know, maybe I can be a deer hunter and procure my own meat. Maybe that could be like an ethically sourced way of feeding myself and getting the meat that I thought I needed. And then I was doing a meditation course online. And one of the women in my course, when I told her about the struggles I had about being vegetarian, she said that she used this diet that Yogananda recommended. It was the nine-day detox. And she was able to free herself of her addiction to wine. She lived in Napa Valley and would do wine tastings and just became a part of their way of life. And it was difficult for her to give up. But through that diet, she was able to stop alcohol. I had already quit alcohol at this point, but I did want to become a vegetarian. So I thought I would try it. And after, I believe, seven days, I just never went back to having that desire or feeling compelled to eat meat. And I believe it was through the help of my guru to release that addiction and the feeling like I needed to eat animals to live. So by surrendering that part of my life to the wisdom of a higher power, I was able to undo a lifelong habit that I had been doing my whole life, eating meat. So giving that up seemed like a really major change and something that was insurmountable. But through the grace of God, I was able to. That's a huge component to the AA programs and other programs that are similar is understanding the influence of a higher power. Yeah, I don't think I could do that alone. Just culturally, it would be uncomfortable to take that stand. Just like maybe on a moral high ground or just from an animal welfare perspective, I think it would be really a difficult sell. But yeah, through the support of God and my guru, I was able to free myself of that addiction and really don't have any desire for that now. So let's go into some practical tools that people can use when they're either struggling with addiction or just wanting to quit a habit that's been a habit for a while. What are some tools that you have used that have helped you? Many, many things that I have quit. The nine day detox diet was one of the most successful. It's pretty extreme and I don't recommend it for the faint of heart. It was really difficult and actually put a strain on our relationship, right? We did it for nine days, but I would say hang in there on day three and four. It was probably the height of the caffeine withdrawal and that kind of detox. Yeah, there was an emotional component on the third and fourth day, I felt like. So that was one of the best tools that I found to really cleanse something from your life. Before I was using that, it was just really conviction and really wanting it for myself. So being adamant about it and like I said with cigarettes, it was just don't put another cigarette in your mouth. That was a really big revelation for me. It's the most obvious thing, but same goes for alcohol. It's like just do not put alcohol in your mouth. And it seems simple, but if you stick to that, that will keep you clean and sober. So find out whatever the simplest component of it is and just commit to not doing that. Just break it down into its most basic element and make a very small commitment. Whichever item you want to eliminate from your life, whether it's food or maybe a behavior. Certain times we just unconsciously do things. And if you can create another, a healthier habit to take its place during that time, then that can really change your life. So figure out what you want to replace that addiction with and fill that time, that space, the headspace and energy with something that is actually moving you toward your goals, toward what you want rather than away from what you want. And it takes identifying something in your life that you want to remove. So you've got to kind of create some distance to it. And you need a why too. Yeah. Like why you're doing it. Yeah, because that's going to allow you to refer back to whenever going gets tough. You're going to remember your why and know that that's more important than just this temporary fix. And oftentimes addiction is based upon short-term satisfaction, immediate gratification rather than maybe like a longer-term goal. So know that in order to get to those long-term goals, you need to practice every day. That low-hanging fruit. And that's one of the things that we talk about in our course. So we have a course, Reach My Venus. And in that course, we go through, it walks you through setting goals and being able to really accomplish and meet them. And one of the ways that it kind of builds on itself is examining your subconscious programming. Those habits, just like you said, especially if it's a behavioral habit, those behaviors are so ingrained and so deeply ingrained. And they usually go way back. And so it's looking at what's the program that's running on autopilot that we don't even think about, that we make choices from. And we do that with lots of different addictions and habits. And then after identifying kind of the patterning that's running and the secondary gain that we can get from it, because sometimes those habits are built on making us feel a certain way or, you know, there's an emotional component to the actual dependency. And from there, once we've identified that in the section that's on focus bundling, we talk about identifying the low-hanging fruit. And so kind of the things that are just those quick grabs but that are long-term satisfaction and how we can really get clear on what is long-term going to benefit us the most and what are our highest ideals. Because if our behaviors and our higher ideals are out of alignment, then we're going to have tension in our life because we may want something, but all of our action and behavior is taking us further from it. And it really builds on itself. I feel like the more I was able to eliminate from my life, then it freed up more energy to apply to different things and also gave me more willpower and confidence that I could make those changes. So sometimes starting with those low-hanging fruit, the different things that you know are not good for you that you can eliminate right away, can help bring motivation and help build momentum toward those larger goals. Because oftentimes the things we really want to achieve aren't going to be immediate. They're going to take years sometimes to really transform your life. And I think that is going to be something that we are going to have to work at daily, but it takes little small wins to also keep us motivated. And I know one thing that Alcoholics Anonymous use to help motivate people is they have a pin or a chip that they get. If there's a certain number of days or years that you can actually put under your belt as far as sobriety, like you've earned that, and sometimes rewarding yourself with a token can help motivate you to just get over that hump. It's like, okay, I made it a month. I made it six months or a year. That can help to fuel you and also see how far you've come. Because a lifetime seems insurmountable, but it's like, oh, I can make it just another hour without taking that smoke break or whatever your addiction happens to be. Usually you can put it off for a certain period of time, and if you can continuously do that, then that seems to be what's helpful for me, just like getting those small wins. And then eventually you'll build up. It's like, oh, I went a whole week without eating meat, and you know what? I actually don't have any cravings for it at all. I think I can do this. But when you try to say, well, I'm never going to do it again, it does seem insurmountable. And unless you have a track record of it, it's harder to make that commitment. Although I've also heard that sometimes eliminating a habit kind of violently is sometimes the best way to do it. Really committing to be alcohol-free might look at smashing all of your glass bottles, like really saying, no, I don't want this. It gives lots of energy, and it's like, get it out. Sometimes tearing up cigarettes or something or flushing them, just making sure that you remember that it's your will that is doing this and not something that's being put upon you, or it's just something you should do, but really what you want to do with these particular behaviors. So making it clear to your subconscious mind that this is what I want, and making a clear distinction, and maybe even make a show of it. So that seems to be a memorable moment for me. With alcohol, I can look back to that day, the last time that I had a drink, and I remember it, and it's like, I don't want that again. So it's a touchpoint to not return to. So having something like that, like a clear delineation, could be helpful. It's like, this is the day that I changed, and I'm going to be like that. Like you're on that course now. Yeah, you're making a definitive line in the sand, and you're saying, no more, I'm not going to do that behavior anymore. And I think that helps give you more resolve if you know the day, the date, and had a real commitment to it. Yeah, and I've got to say that seeing the different addictions that you've struggled with in the past, because I didn't meet you until after you had already given those things up. So when we met, you had given those things all up at that point. And that was something that I really respected, and I don't think we could have had the relationship that we do had you not walked that path. Because I had an ex who had addiction, and so to see that you were a person who could beat addiction, and who would be willing to quit things for the greater good, like just seeing your resolve in those ways that you had chosen to break habits and patterns to have better in your life, was something that I was really drawn to and really respected. I want to call back to something I said earlier. I don't have any games on my phone, and that's because they're so addictive. They gamify apps so that you just feel really compelled to use them. And there's been a couple that I had on my phone that I just would want to play every night, and I realized it's like I'm actually losing sleep because I'm playing a video game. And I just said, okay, I'm done with it. I need to commit to deleting it. I encourage people that publicly state that I've been alcohol-free for a year now, and I want to celebrate that. So every anniversary, if you say that, you feel the support, and you also encourage others to see that it's possible, and then it kind of creates a positive movement in that direction. The more healthy habits that you can commit to for yourself, it'll start inspiring your friends, your family. So I've noticed that people around me have gotten sober, and I feel like I'm a small part of that, but it's kind of a whole movement. And the more people that make that commitment, the easier it becomes, because then there's just less peer pressure. Well, and I think a lot of that, too, there's still a stigma that some people are afraid or there's some shame tied to that. Like to say, to make a statement like that, it's acknowledging that at one point you did those behaviors. And so I think that's why it's not talked about more. You know, people aren't sharing more of the things that they've given up, that they've struggled with in the past, being transparent about those struggles and then about their wins so that other people believe that it's possible, instead of just, well, everyone does that. Because every habit or thing that people come into our practice wanting to kick the addiction from, like, say, smoking or drinking or drugs or sex addictions or all of these things have a stigma around them. And so often people won't speak up about their past, about what they have been able to give up. And so you hear statements or you hear just the thought of, well, what would you even do then if you went out if you weren't drinking? Or, like, you know, I think it becomes more normatized as, like, well, just everybody does that. And then there's this extra heart for someone to feel like they can surmount that goal. Yeah. And as you're sober, you'll start to find more places that are sober. You know, like, you'll find yourself staying out at a coffee house instead or going to sober dance parties and realize that you can actually have fun and dance without drinking. And I found that that was definitely the case. And when I originally thought, well, I could never dance without having at least a drink in me, then I found that I was actually a much better dancer without alcohol, and it was an impairment in a lot of ways. So there's a lot of other people out there that are also struggling with that and who have overcome. So they can definitely provide you with answers to those different questions. So there's something that, you know, I am uncomfortable talking about, but since you brought it up, sexuality and sex addiction, and I felt like me and probably everybody I know was looking at pornography, and I guess I had an addiction to it. It was like kind of a compulsion or something that I would do regularly, and I noticed that it was creating like this distance between myself and my partner, and I didn't want to be, like, comparing what I was seeing in the images to my actual relationship. I didn't want to be wanting someone else rather than who I was with at the time. So I realized that it was hurting my relationship and that I needed to free myself of that addiction. And it definitely, with releasing that and, you know, committing not to masturbate, not to watch pornography, it helped bring me closer to my partner and not be thinking about someone else. And, yeah, it cleaned up my thoughts quite a bit. Yeah, that's a huge thing that I don't feel like it's talked about enough, and I feel like if men could hear the women that I've spoken with in my office, in my home, my personal friends, if they knew what that can do to close down their partners, the people that they love. Because then what I hear from men is often, my partner's not interested in sex. My partner wants nothing to do with sex. And why don't women want to have sex as much as we do? And books everywhere about marriages. Like the men want sex and the women don't want to, and the men are struggling with pornography and the women are upset. And this is such a huge elephant in the room if people don't talk about it. Because the truth is for, I mean, I can only speak for myself, but I hope I'm speaking for women, that when you have a partner that really, truly values, loves you, and shows you that in choosing you over and over again, there is no lack of desire for a sexual relationship. It's an amazing sexual relationship because that tension's not there. And that's something that I wasn't going to ask you to talk about it unless it was something you were comfortable about, but that is what I've experienced in my past. I had you not have already made those decisions before I met you. I don't think I would have pursued the relationship with you because that had been my wounding in the past and issues that I had with my ex-husband. And so that's something that I feel like I have incredible respect for you and immediately made you a forerunner in my mind. Yeah, well, thank you for saying that. And it is difficult to talk about, and certainly I didn't think that would come up on our first podcast. I want to be very honest and revealing and also help other men to realize that you can overcome it and you will actually have a deeper connection and sexual relationship if you aren't looking at others, if you're not looking at pornography. Even I've noticed since I have been in relationship with Jennifer, I've tried to clean up my even social feed and Facebook and Instagram. Whereas when I was single, I was interested in seeing women on there. And now that's going to take me and my thoughts away from my relationship, which is where I want my energy to go. If you can curate your feed in a way where it's not going to distract you and pull your energy elsewhere, if you put that into your relationship, I think it will improve your connection and your sexual relationship. Because women want to feel that connection. They want to feel the emotional closeness. And if you're thinking about other women or just comparing other women's bodies to your wife, it's a hard standard to keep up with. And as women, we're doing that too. We're comparing our own bodies to other women. So I've cleaned my feed up to where I'm not constantly having set before me a standard that I feel like I can't live up to. I feel like Jennifer does a great job of reframing some of my thoughts and putting me in her shoes and allowing me to see the world from her perspective. And if she was looking at a bunch of men in swimsuits or miniskirts or very muscular men and then would expect that from me when it came time to be intimate, I would feel like shut down. I'm like, well, I don't want to have the lights on. I don't want you to see who I am because I see who you're looking at and who you're going to compare me to. And I think that's what most men do. And they just see that even in their normal feed in Facebook. It's summer. Women are posting pictures of them in their swimsuits, and it's hard not to avoid that. And something like pornography can be an extreme version of that where you're not only seeing women with enhanced bodies, but you're seeing them do kind of unnatural things, I guess. And also it tends to get more and more extreme. You become desensitized, which is the case with any addiction. The more you have of something, I mean, even medicinal medicines, that's where something that was actually prescribed can become an addiction as you need more and more of it to have the same effect. And we see that with drugs. We see that with alcohol, with behaviors. Over time, you become desensitized to the current level and need to move the level up again and move it up again. Up the ante because you develop a tolerance over time. And then in order to move the needle, you need something a little more extreme. And certainly that's the case with drugs. They just lose their effectiveness. I found that with cigarettes. I just kept having more and more to feel the effect. But whenever I would get off of it, like I said, I quit about eight times. But that first one, when you would go back, it would feel a huge effect. And it would really change my state because I was actually free of all those chemicals. And after about a month, you're chemically free. And I could feel the effects. It was actually a very powerful drug. Even one cigarette could create a pretty massive head change. And when I was smoking them every day, I would never feel a difference. When I was smoking, say, 20 a day, it would never really move the needle. It was just kind of more done out of habit, a ritual, than actually seeking some type of pleasure or fixation. So I think many addictions have that nature that you develop a tolerance and then you end up needing more and more to really feel something. Yeah. Yeah, I think there were a couple of things you touched on that I want to expand on. And one of those was where you said that to quit a habit, you need to replace a habit. And that's something that I remember my professor really driving home to us in my coursework for hypnosis and addiction was that exact element of when you remove something, you need to put something in its place because quitting something or even the language around quitting something feels like you're giving something up. But in reality, when we have that why, when we have that greater reason, like this is going to help my meditation practice in the morning, this is going to help my relationship be better, this is going to help me at social functions not need some kind of numbing agent or that kind of thing. When we have that higher vision, now we're actually adding to our experience, not taking away from it. Because anytime we're framing something with we're having to give something up or we're losing something, we're going to feel much more resistance in the mind to let that thing go instead of looking at it as what you're gaining by making a change. It's not that I'm quitting smoking, I'm quitting this, I'm quitting that. We're making a change and we're gaining something in the process. Yeah, there has to be a reward for your sacrifice because otherwise why would you give up something that only has an upside? You've got to find a greater reward in the letting go of the addiction. And for giving up masturbation, it meant having more satisfying sex. I'm like, why settle for this puny orgasm when you can have a much more expanded one that you're having with your partner versus by yourself. So that made a big difference for me and that was the trade-off. And the same with meditation. If I can't meditate in the morning, then I just would put it off more and more. So it was important to me to release things that would impede that progress. If God is very important to you, then you will rearrange your life in order to spend time with God. It's not going to let things like food or coffee or sex get in the way of that. You would prioritize that if that's what's really important to you. I think one common misconception around addiction, because I do hear this a lot in our office, is that it is just the chemical dependency that creates the addiction. And really, that's actually a very small component because we are more motivated by our programming and our emotions than any chemical dependency. Now, the chemical dependency does play a part, and there are certain chemicals that are more addictive than others. But those tend to be more addictive than others because of the experience people have and the wounds that ultimately that chemical is producing a feeling to help meet. So sometimes we're using a chemical or a behavior to numb a feeling, or sometimes it's to create something that we feel like we're not able to create on our own. And these motivators are much more powerful than just that actual chemical alone. And one interesting thing that I found in working with smoking cessation clients is that they can actually get to the point where there's no chemical involved. Like, they reduce their smoking in half by cutting their cigarettes in half, and each time they go to smoke a cigarette, they only smoke half of it. And then from there, they cut the amount in half. And from there, they go to just vaping. And from there, they go to no cartridge in their vape. And still, at that point, it's not a chemical dependency. There's no chemical involved, and they're still addicted to the habit. And so they say that last 10% of anything is the hardest thing to give up because when you're really convicted about something, when you have real conviction and willpower, you realize how bad things have gotten. You're like, never again. I've got to do something. This has gotten too bad. Like, you get to a certain weight, and you're like, oh my gosh, this has gotten too bad. I've got to make a change now. Or, oh, I'm smoking way more than, or I'm drinking way more than I'm okay with. And that's a conviction level. But when you get down to almost nothing, some of that conviction level goes away because it's like, well, now it's not so bad. It's just the last 10 pounds. It's just the last, you know, one cigarette a day. It's just at the end of my workday, something to look forward to. And that is, from my experience in working with addictions, the hardest place to be in. And so that's when it really is the inner mind work to be able to rewrite the programming that has the habit that keeps happening. And we do that with hypnotherapy by using the alpha-theta brain state. We're going to get the mind into the exact state that it was first programmable in. And so there's this joke about how this man who was a drunk would only know where his keys were when he was drunk because that was the last time he saw them, and he had to get in that brain state again to find them. It's this joke they used to tell at hypnotherapy school. But it really is true that when you're in a certain brain state, you access what you remember the last time you were in that brain state. And so if you're looking for something, if you can put yourself back in the brain state that you were in when you lost it, you can usually find it. And if you can put yourself back in that brain state of the suggestible nature you were in when you started a habit, then you can rewrite that programming so that you don't have that habit running and directing kind of on autopilot, your body and your behaviors. Did you have anything you wanted to add to that and any practices that you use in meditation? I'm thinking about my own drinking and how I didn't really see it as a problem. It was just maybe a glass of wine a night, and it didn't seem like I was an alcoholic. It wasn't really causing problems in my life, but it still seemed to be something that I had a difficulty giving up. And doing it for someone else was really helpful. And, again, committing to it, like having a partner to do it with you. And I felt like I had a higher calling, and that helped me to keep sober, even though I didn't feel like I had an issue with it. I didn't identify as an alcoholic. But in order to help those around me, I felt that that was important. Also doing it for your kids. Right. That's what I was just thinking as you were talking, is like, what kind of example do we want to set? Yeah. And I believe I really helped my dad to quit smoking. My sister and I were adamant about him not smoking and finally, I think, helped motivate him to quit. He also employed a hypnotherapist to help with that addiction as well. But I think his motivation, his why, was for his kids. He wanted to be able to live longer and to see us grow up. And if he continued smoking, that would shorten his life. And having a reason for doing it, the why is very important, and that can help change your programming. So identifying that, like how is your life going to get better if you make this change? And then whenever you think about referring back to that old habit, remember the why. Like, well, because I want a healthy, loving relationship. Or I want to be able to get up in the morning and feel clear and vital and full of energy. Things like that will help to motivate you far more than just saying, well, this is good for my health, so I'm going to choose it. Like if you say... You almost feel like you're martyring yourself or something for that. Rather than doing it as an example for your kids, for your friends. It's like, hey, I want to help my friend. I see that they're struggling with addiction. I can commit to being drug-free in order to help them also make that commitment. And then you're doing it for someone else. And it's just a higher level of conviction than just for your own health or well-being. I think those things certainly have helped me to make improvements in my life. And I'm always a work in progress and see areas in my life that I can improve. Having a partner that's also committed to getting better and growing together will certainly help you. May it be a friend or your spouse. Be committed to support each other because it's really hard to do it alone. Yeah, definitely. I wanted to bring up one last kind of... What we would think of as a less thought-of form of addiction. Because as you're talking, I'm thinking... Here, I'm asking you to share all this personal history of your past. I'm trying to think where have I been addicted in my past. And I haven't been addicted to cigarettes or alcohol or pornography. Or any of these things to be able to give any... To feel like I can contribute. But where I do have an addiction is to mental patterns and to my thoughts. And negative thought patterns. And that's something that in the past two years I've really been working to unwind and understand. Where do those thoughts come from? How can I change those thoughts when they pop up? Because they pop up just as habitually as any kind of physical, tangible habit or addiction does. And mine tend to root around fear. And trying to discern why does this trigger me? Why am I afraid of this? Is this a realistic fear in this moment? Can I cancel this thought? Can I reframe this thought? Can I assume best intention in this situation? And that's where the habit of pre-framing and reframing has really been beneficial to me. When I have a thought running that's uncomfortable, I look at what pre-frame did I have running when I came upon this circumstance that made me feel threatened or triggered or have a negative spiral thought around it. How could I reframe that? So, I'll use one that's really, I guess, I don't even know if I want to share this, but I will. Today, this morning, my oldest daughter was kind of teasing me and she said something like, my mom has her life together. She's been married three times. And I was like, oh. Because I was never going to be that person. You know, I grew up in the church. I never thought. I believe in love. I believe in the value of marriage. And to hear my oldest daughter just throw that around was like a gut punch. And I felt like, okay, I am broken. You know, I've been married three times. And I thought, you know what, and I even said this to her, I said, I'm going to choose to reframe that and think that I must be pretty special for three men to have wanted to share their life with me. Because that's the only way I can look at that in a way that I don't feel shame and pain and guilt. And so, for me, I would say my addiction is my negative thought spirals that I can get on if I don't catch it early and think, what is the best way I could view this information that is going to actually, you know, be of benefit to me moving forward where I can feel positive and create a better situation for myself in the future? If I allowed that thought to grow and I thought, yeah, I really suck at this, I really suck at relationship, which I don't think I do. I feel like I'm really good at communication. But, yes, I have made mistakes. And I knew moving into this one what I didn't want to repeat, what I didn't want to be part of our relationship and what I wanted to do better and things I needed to change about myself to make sure that those mistakes don't happen again. And if I'm aware of that and I know that, yes, I have made mistakes in the past and I know better now. I don't know everything now, but I know better and I'm always going to choose better. And if I can believe that I'm worth having a strong relationship moving forward now, that can only benefit our relationship in a way that if I looked at it the other way, I'd be more likely to self-sabotage this relationship. So, I don't know. I hope that's helpful if, like me, you're someone who your addiction or your habit is the negative thought spirals. That reframing is a really positive tool that we can use to catch before we start on that spiral down. How can I see this in a different light? If I don't believe it, how can I get to where I do believe it? Because that's a big one. We want to reframe something negative, but we don't really believe the positive thing. I am happy. I am peaceful. I am calm when we don't feel that at all. So, then we can use a method like the even though I'm feeling anxious with each and every breath, I'm feeling calmer and calmer because we're moving towards the thing that we want. So, those have been some of, I think, my most helpful tools personally for overcoming habits and patterns. Is there anything else before we kind of wrap up today that you want to mention? Well, I want to mention our course, ReachMyZenith.com. You can find many of these tools for changing your beliefs and reprogramming your subconscious mind. We have many of our learnings, our teachings that we want to pass along to you. We have individual coaching sessions, too, to help with your repatterning of any subconscious beliefs. We haven't figured it out all ourselves. We're constantly working on ourselves and reprogramming our own subconscious minds. I found meditation to be really helpful for that. It's made me a lot more calm, more peaceful, less judgmental. Really, I feel like a radically different person than the one that I was in my 20s. It's been a long road, but relatively quick because of all of the great teachings that I've found and the ability to shift my mind from negative thinking to positive. We found a lot of great tools that we would love to share and want to give you guys an opportunity to learn from us and get some coaching. We wanted something that was more comprehensive, that you could work through step by step, that it really seemed like each one was building on each other. Each step was building on the step before it, so you could notice your patterns, change your patterns. Move toward your goals. Everyone is different, so we want to incorporate different approaches. One may work for you really well. One may not. You can take it or leave it. It's a buffet. Yeah, it's a buffet. Not everything is required, but it's a bunch of tools that can be used for transforming your subconscious mind and your beliefs. It's really helped us. I think I'm excited to see how it can transform the world and everyone that we work with. We wanted to take this time to record a podcast, to talk to each other, to reveal these parts of ourselves that show that we're human, we're vulnerable. Also, we've taken a lot of steps to improve, and hopefully that can inspire others to do the same. Maybe we can help you on that journey in some way, either through teaching you some meditations and affirmations, or possibly giving you some recordings to work with through hypnotherapy. We have lots of advice to give, and we're looking for people that are eager to learn and to improve their minds, their body, and their soul. Our bottom tier is just $55, and that's the self-study program. You'll get 10 modules that are PDF modules to work through with your workbook, and an audio at the end. Our second tier up is $222, and that's our video online course platform. This would be accessing the course through an online platform or through our app, working your way through all 10 video modules and our workbook. Then you get all of the audio experiences as well with that version. Then our top tier at $555 is our guided program. This is guided coaching, working with John and I, and it also includes everything in the tiers below. You get the workbook for the self-study program. You get all of the video modules, all of the audio, and four guided coaching sessions with John and I. Thanks for listening, and we hope you join us again for future episodes. Have a great day.