Eric Laskovy, Kellogg CC, Head Baseball Coach

This is a podcast called Unparalleled Performance, hosted by Josh Reband. Each episode features ambitious and passionate guests who strive for more than average. They discuss topics like discipline, goal-setting, and personal growth. In this episode, Josh interviews Eric Laskovey, a successful baseball coach at Kellogg Community College. Eric talks about his love for coaching and his desire to teach young athletes life lessons. He also shares his journey to becoming a coach and his commitment to the junior college level. Eric emphasizes the importance of team culture and selflessness in his program. He believes that players should focus on the present and not get too caught up in their future plans. Eric's passion for the game and his dedication to his players contribute to the success of his program. He constantly reinforces the principles of selflessness and competition with his team. Overall, Eric's coaching style and the culture he has created set his program apart from others. This is the Unparalleled Performance Podcast. I am your host Josh Reband. Each week we'll feature guests who are ambitious and passionate about being more than the status quo because we all know that being average is the enemy to success. We will cover topics that will help you become more disciplined and committed to your goals in life, leadership, and faith. Now on to this week's episode and remember as iron sharpens iron so one person sharpens another. Enjoy the show. Welcome back to another episode of the Unparalleled Performance Podcast. I am your host Josh Reband and this week I have somebody that I've been wanting to get on the podcast for a while. I met him probably five or six years ago when I started coaching at Davenport University when I first got connected and then coached with the Battle Creek Bombers and continued our relationship and connection since then and he's a proven winner, a perennial winner. He's taken his team to the NJCAA College Road Series I believe six times, most recently in 2021 and just has it accumulated a lot of success within his program over 25 years at Kellogg Community College. So with me today is Eric Laskovey and a lot of guys that I've coached have just spoken extremely highly of the program there and the culture and it's a testament to what you've done there Eric. So welcome to the show and excited to have you. Thanks, excited to be here. Yeah, yeah, awesome. So the first question I want to get riding with is just kind of your why of coaching, maybe why you got into it and maybe your why has changed through the years too a little bit but how is your reason for coaching and why you love doing it help sustain you for over 25 years now? Yeah, you know I love baseball and I've always wanted to lead a purpose-driven life and so you know coaching allows me to teach young people life lessons and continue to be around the game I love. You know the other part of my why is as a junior college player I crossed paths with a gentleman named Rich Morales who was getting a master's degree. He was from out of state, he just showed up as an assistant coach and I changed my life forever. He really believed in me, he helped me grow as a person and as a player. He actually drove me to my college visit in Arkansas. So when I graduated from college I pretty much knew that I wanted to be a JC coach and felt like if I could impact young people half as much as he did me then I'd be doing all right. Love that and you talked about being a JC coach and have you, I feel like you've created a legacy there at Kellogg. Have you ever thought of a different direction of like man I you know like there's other things that I would like to do or accomplish maybe in a different you know sector of the game type thing. I know you spent some time as a associate scout with the Reds. Has there ever been interest for you or you just love the JC route so much that you've just kind of created that passion? Yeah there have been some nice opportunities and some things you know the only I guess thing that's that's ever caught my attention was at the four-year level just being able to connect with the student-athlete for four years and kind of extending that relationship but I really believe this is where I belong this is where my passion is and you know we sometimes people will say well don't you want to move up a level and you know coach better talent and I think we just had 13 D1 commits in two years there's plenty of talent here you know sometimes in the junior college you're as close to the players as you know an uncle or you know a close family member and so I embrace all of this I'm very intrinsically motivated and so you know the college has made me full-time as a tenured professor and so you know I just appreciate every day that they've given me this opportunity here and and I've never felt like I had to go to it to the next level or to something else I think sometimes when you chase happiness it's what you leave behind. Love that love that and you talked about them making a full-time professor position for you for the younger coaches sometimes you know they anticipate a full-time job right away in coaching with benefits etc it just doesn't doesn't work that way how long did it take for you to become full-time at Kellogg? Yeah that's one of the things I knew when I graduated college I wanted to be a JC coach what I didn't know was there weren't really that many full-time opportunities and so I was very fortunate you know I started here in 2000 with Russ Fortel who was the longtime head coach here and then associate head coach Jim Miller who's still here to this day and you know after seven years together you know Russ decided that it was the time to pass the torch along to me and and I got the head coaching job and then a year or two later a full-time teaching position opened up and I was able to get that but you know I was very lucky and fortunate and certainly could have worked out a number of different ways but I feel very blessed to have the situation here that I do. That's really cool really cool moving on to kind of the next next thing I wanted to touch on a little bit today is I think you have a really unique ability you've created a kind of a system that like all your teams through the years I feel like pretty much play the same way like you're gritty you know they're structured there's accountability like how have you implemented that what are the staples for that and then how do you kind of balance the difference between trying to get somebody individually better to move them on to a four-year school but not still still not necessarily have that as their main focus and still keeping the team mindset in check because I know that that's a big struggle for a lot of junior college programs are sending guys is that second year they start checking out because they've committed to their four-year they're starting to get excited about that how do you kind of keep guys excited within your system what are things that you talk about with your guys that help keep them on track yeah there's a lot to unpack with that question but you know the first thing I would say is if that ever happened here to where the guys had committed or had signed in the fall and we're only thinking about the next place then we've done something very wrong in our culture and so you know we're blue-collar tough we play with a lot of respect for the game you know we want guys to be excited to show up to practice and compete but you're right you know ultimately junior college is not the dream destination for a player and you know oftentimes we're not their first choice we might be the right choice but you know they come to the JC level to close the gap between their potential and performance and but when you do get a little concerned where wow if we have a bunch of guys committed in the fall might they be thinking about that again we've been fortunate that that hasn't happened here but I also tell them you know guys I've been here for 20 plus years and without fail the students that have had the most success here and it event have advanced the furthest have been the most selfless and team-oriented and so I don't believe that you can be selfish here and then all of a sudden turn that off at the next level as you advance levels things become more difficult and that kind of mentality reveals itself and so we work really hard on you know that piece but overall again when you have that culture piece they don't want it to end they want to fight and battle for each other all the way through and we've been really lucky that way and so grateful for some of the great leadership we've had over the years. Love that yeah and in terms of like the messaging and continuing to talk about it how often do you feel like you reiterate those same principles the selfless mindset the ability the desire to compete and win where your feet are how often do you talk about those things with your team? It varies some years more than others yeah for sure I yeah it is a regular you know there's a lot of noise out there there's a lot of things and and and we we focus a lot on like you said being where our feet are and you know this is you got a very finite time to play this game you know big time has to be where you're at and there's just no other way to do it and so give it again if that there were things where players were feeling like that first we take a look as a staff and say boy we're really getting something wrong here if that's going on. Yeah and I think you probably wouldn't admit it yourself just because I know you but you're you're passionate about what you do and I think setting that tone at the top with the coaching staff like you said like just now you sometimes will self-check on your coaching staff like that's taking ownership of areas where you feel like maybe your team needs to but then the players see that when you're when you're trying to correct things from the coaching staff side of things then they're more prone to criticism for themselves because they know that you are willing to be critical of yourself or you know things that you may want to do better and you're so passionate about it that I think players then desire to be passionate as well and I think it all stems from the top and I don't think you'd probably give yourself enough credit for that but I think your passion for the game is probably what enables that culture of being selfless and being willing to take ownership of whatever is going on within the program good or bad but especially the bad because there's always going to be tough times within seasons and we can get to that in a little bit where you know teams may start off and just struggle a little bit out of the gate to get going but then kind of find their way the next kind of thing that I'm thinking about just in terms of your clubhouse what separates your clubhouse from other clubhouse and doesn't you have to be at your level like culture is something that you can do at any level and it doesn't matter if you're a junior college a high school a division one power five like culture is something that you can create what do you feel like separates you in your clubhouse from other cultures that may have guys check out earlier yeah I think a lot about that and you know I think one of the things for us is we have never had more than 35 players on our fall roster and so we were strongly about not over recruiting and so we trust our ability to recruit but not and I don't even think that's wrong philosophically for people to bring in 40 50 60 that it's just not the way we do it and so every year I think about you know should I bring in a few more and then I look at the success that we've had and I really think that the smaller roster you know has something to do with it look we're a northern team that our seasons condensed into April so we got an arm side you still have to carry a few more I'd even be less we went with 27 last year will probably be 33 34 this year but that allows us to develop more and it certainly allows us to connect with our players on a different level and I just think there's got to be something to that and then that culture piece you know it's really passed from that sophomore group to the freshman group and we've been very fortunate there that there's never really been you know a lapse we're there to guide we're there to confront problems head-on but we very much believe in that old quote with great teams players lead with average teams coaches lead and with bad teams no one leads love that yeah and I think that's probably one of the underlying things you talked about with a smaller roster if you and again there's programs that are successful that may carry 40 50 guys whatever the case may be but like you said from a development piece all those extra lives at bats that those guys are getting through the fall in the winter or pitchers that are getting live innings if you have too many guys you're not able to roll them out and give them that chance to develop and blossom and so I think that there is something to it you can't really quantify it or put your finger on it but I think there's something different and they know that there's a chance that you know like if you're if there's 45 guys and you're a freshman you're thinking man how am I ever gonna have a chance to sniff the field this year and so then that relationship of trust like hey coach thinks I got a shot like I'm one of one of 30 or 33 35 guys I'm gonna have a chance to be successful and I think that just by having a chance that may motivate players a little bit more to try to get better to break the lineup at some point during the season so I I think you're right it's probably not something you can actually quantify or put your finger on and say this is it but I think it's just those things together probably make a difference on the recruiting side of it I think I guess my question would be what do you tell your players because I think that's a big part of culture is what we tell players in the recruiting process and then what it's actually like when the guys get there because a lot of times it's very different can you take me into kind of that recruiting process and then how you execute that during their time there because like I said I've coached a lot of your guys through summer baseball or when I was at Davenport and guys speak really highly of you and that means that you are executing what you've told them in the recruiting process and giving them a great experience just walk us through that a little bit yeah that's a great point Josh and you know I think first of all as we go through the recruiting process and we definitely recruit character that's a big big thing for us but as we have student-athletes and their families on campus you know we always get to the look for the mayor's to work we have to be as transparent as possible and so we want them to know exactly what they're getting into when they come here and again we don't have a big roster but there's still competition within nothing is ever promised or guaranteed everything is earned we're very up front with that and and so but just that transparency and and look we're going to be up front and honest with you at all times and I think we follow through with that and again you know I have a coaching staff you know we talk about this culture and kind of these some of these things that make it a difference you know Jim Miller has been here for 26 years he's been a part 8 World Series every championship he was 23 years in the military and you know tough love but also you know over 26 years he's synonymous with our success as much as anything else and then you've got Randy Ford who's you know just the best human being salt of the earth man ever and he's 12 years at Penn State as a pitching coach and six years as a head coach of Western Michigan I mean come on you know and you got Alex Holly our young guy who played under the legendary Riggs Coach Riggleman at Spring Arbor he played for me here at Kellogg on a World Series team and and he loves Kellogg and he's and he's got a great skill set and the players love him he's the young guy on the staff and so all that stuff helps and matters and so we try to convince the families are going to be you know here with other great young men from great families and a coaching staff that's going to care about them and serve them. Yeah have you and I I think I probably know the answer to this but have you ever gotten the urge for somebody that wants to kick back from a Division one program and promise them things but you know that it's not the right thing because it doesn't fit into your program to promise them something even though you feel pretty strongly that they're going to be a big help to you? No yeah we wouldn't do that and we have taken a few you know we take we don't have a transfer to every year but we're not going to take someone just to take them unless we really feel like it's in their best interest along with ours but another piece to our culture that I thought was amazing this year is we did get a semester transfer but I spoke with our sophomore that played that position and said look this is available I'm not going to do it if you're not comfortable with this because you've done everything we've asked you to do and we believe in you and but maybe this person can play a little bit of a different position and there's DH and that kind of stuff and the answer was immediately bring him in he makes us better and so you know but no I would never you know someone's transferring for a reason it's very important that you get it right as you help them along to the next place. I think we need more people like you in the game of baseball guys that are transparent with their players that are on their roster I don't think that there's enough of that these days and like you said if you have a guy in your program that's been doing something the right way for you know a year or two and all of a sudden you're like hey we're bringing in this guy and you know whatever like that communication aspect is really important because it that's what builds that trust within the program and the culture and I think a lot of times it is something that people don't think about as often that it impacts how how players think but the communication aspect that's probably the number one thing that I've learned even since starting this podcast or kind of confirmed in my own mind is how important being transparent and being a great communicator is not we have to be eloquent at what we do but just being somebody that's willing to communicate either the hard information that needs to be passed along or communicating with a player when the truth needs to be told or getting their opinion on something as well and I think kind of segueing into the next topic which I think fits right into it is your teams like I follow Michigan college baseball at all levels throughout the season and if your team there gets off to a rough start you guys go to LSU units and let's say you get swept or whatever the case may be I know that at the end of the year your team is going to be in a position to have a chance to be successful and make a postseason run how do you keep your guys locked in even after maybe a rough start there's a few coaches in Michigan that I know regardless of how they start they're going to be they're going to be a contender at the end of the year and I just wanted to pick your brain on that and keeping guys locked in when summer balls rolling around where a lot of guys from different programs start thinking about that they start like we talked about thinking about four-year school maybe getting a break from the game and you touched on a little bit earlier like just being passionate and being where your feet are don't take this game for granted because it's it's so finite it's going to pass quickly but how do you continue year in year out help your guys play good in May yeah and going back to your last point I just think that was very well said I still don't ever believe I communicate enough I don't think we can with our players and so I thought that was very well said and it's reflective in your teams and all the success you've had in Traverse City but as far as how we do this we kind of break the season down into three parts so we look at it as you've got the non-conference schedule the conference schedule in the postseason and so with that non-conference schedule we we want to really challenge ourselves and we certainly do you know seven-time national champion LSU Eunice is who we started off with for 15 16 straight years and we're coming right out of a gym and we're in LA let's go and they've got you know 15 games under their belt and they're incredible coaching staff talent everything and so then we follow that up with some Wabash Valley the next week and but we know our culture is not going to break we know that our weaknesses are going to get exposed immediately and we're just going to really coach hard on the process that we think necessary to deserve to win at that point and then you've got the conference season same thing we're still really working hard on trying to get these guys into a winning process and and by the time we get to the postseason our hands are off it's their ride we're here to put them in as good a position as we can but it's like hey man this is your guys's thing you know take us take us where we need to go and you know at that point the teachings been done the systems in it's like let's just go let this thing fly let's ride so you make it sound so easy how how do you how much do you rely on your second year players or maybe a third year guy maybe he had the redshirt for a year or whatnot how much do you rely on those guys to keep the culture intact because they obviously know the system by that point they know that you guys are going to be challenged early on and you may be successful in that non-conference schedule I didn't mean to you know say anything like you guys don't have success in those early games but it's just you know you're going to be challenged yeah and you're willing to have those weaknesses exposed and obviously those second-year guys know what to expect with that you know those first few weekends of the year how much are you relying on those guys just in terms of leadership heavily I mean you know I don't think a lot of our incoming student athletes really understand this you know I think it's it's getting better but when they go down and we open with LSU Eunice it's like okay I get it now this this this can be played at a very very high level and so they might struggle a little bit and you know we've all got to be there to help pick them up and say it's okay but now we understand these are the things we need to do to be successful and but we do we rely heavily on the guys that have been through it before love that yeah and you talked about the non-conference conference postseason in Traverse City here we kind of do something kind of similar but obviously all of our games matter just the same so we break up the season into four quarters and it's every 18 games is a quarter and we don't talk about winning a ton as a coaching staff like we we believe that it's a byproduct of the process and doing things right every day and it's again it's easy to say but you have to implement it you have to have that constantly on your mind if you want to have a chance and we feel like if we are doing that process we'll give ourselves a chance to win every quarter have a winning record and if you have a winning record every quarter in this league you're going to have a chance to play in the postseason most likely so that's that's kind of how we do it in it 18 games is a big enough sample size to figure out weaknesses and strengths and then you and I talked on the phone a little bit ago like this past week and just in terms of like the rosters and how they shift throughout the summer in the Northwoods League and that's why the 18 games is so important for us because the first 18 games roster is going to be a little bit different than the second 18 games versus maybe the last 18 games when you have some more pitchers that are getting shut down and now you have you're bringing in some some more arms in that fourth quarter so it's you're going to have different strengths and weaknesses in each quarter but then you have an opportunity reflex we have a team meeting at the end of every we'll still talk of the team a little bit throughout that those 18 games but our main focus is to create a sample size that we can look back on and it's the same thing for you like the non-conference schedule that is a big enough sample size to look back and say okay these are things that heading into conference play that we need to fix you know and same thing for us heading into the postseason now we have four quarters of evaluation and then at that point the players know what our strengths and weaknesses are and we know just go let them play like have fun in the postseason we're there to guide you and now it's just up to performing each and every night and executing as best as you can and that's what will give you a chance so I just thought it was kind of a cool correlation between your thoughts and I know tidy at Davenport does a little bit of the same like fall balls a separate season from their preseason preseason and not conference it's all the same but I think the players have to recognize that and it has to be communicated from the coaching staff for them to be able to buy into it so yeah yeah I think that's really cool in terms of players that you've coached and teams that you've coached what what would you say are intangibles and I it's again it's hard to put our finger on it I just like asking the question because somebody may say something that's on the podcast like you may say it differently than somebody else what are some intangibles that you've seen in those individual players that have had a lot of success during their time with you and at a four-year and then also if you can touch on the teams intangibles that have either been World Series teams or maybe just some of your really good team that maybe didn't make it to the World Series but they just had a ton of success what would you what would you say to that yeah I think if we're just going to talk in general about intangibles one of the things we really talk about on the visit is you know I kind of put players into three categories some guys like baseball others love baseball but then when you get the player that's really passionate about developing in this sport then there's a different level of commitment there and they're really able and again it's probably on an intrinsic level but but then you have a chance to really have something special and that person's commitment is going to be unwavering and so on our special special teams you've really had people in that true passion category that and and when you get a handful of guys like that that are kind of leading the way look out yeah absolutely absolutely and in terms of teams obviously if ever you know if everybody's passionate about that and they're in that higher tier that's going to create that team intangible of the passion is there anything else in terms of the teams that you've coached that might be something that people could cling to to say yeah that's what we're missing you know I think we again as a junior college we're freshman and sophomore right so one we don't want to take away any opportunities for anyone to lead and so whether we have captains in that particular year or not and then we want to try to put them in positions all year long to bond you know it might be that bus ride down to Eunice you know the the Puma classic all the things that we do the community service that we do together lifting in our units and you know all those things we're trying to really create that strong bond and in that family atmosphere and so to me it's like anytime I talk to somebody and I always ask when they've made a great run and and they've done something special as well you know tell me what was it what was the difference this year and so man these guys loved each other the leadership on the players and was incredible it's the same stuff it's just how do we create that and get to that point yeah absolutely and I think you hit on the head a few minutes ago by judging character when you're recruiting those guys and figuring it out what are things that you're doing to judge their character or try to figure out who they are before they get there like for instance for myself I I feel one of the big things that I use is I'm it's our relationships with other coaches and that want to send players so for you from other high schools or wherever guys that have come to your program that have sent players those coaches you can you know who you can trust in that type of player that's going to fit into that Kellogg culture well because that coach has sent you players before I think that's a big component of recruiting is utilizing those connections and relationships I think also to either current players or former players recommendations I think some that's something that I used to judge character a lot in terms of guys that want to come play in Traverse City if there's a guy that's recommending a player that is a pit spitter like somebody that we we would define yeah that dude's a pit spitter type player and he's now recommending a player then it makes a lot of sense because usually people recognize the culture that you're in if they are upholding themselves to that high standard they can recognize what those intangibles are what you're looking for I use social media a little bit here and there just kind of seeing you know what guys are you know tweeting about or posting different things like is it more self-reflective is it more external and giving praise just for example Braxton Bragg he's a kid who pitched for us in 2020 just got drafted by the Baltimore Orioles out of Dallas Baptist and none of his posts on social media after the draft were about himself they were all about his other teammates from Dallas Baptist which I think had seven or eight draft picks this year and I'm like that kid it like that's why like that he's a pit spitter because of that I'm just kind of having that mindset so how do you use character how do you define it in that recruiting process yeah well you said it you know your players if current and former can be your best recruiters you certainly have a lot of programs that you've worked with over the years in those relationships and you know what to expect from that program and those coaches know what the players getting into coming to yours and so we absolutely reach out and speak to those individuals now I do all the recruiting right now myself but you know we had Adam Goodwin here for a couple years it's now the director of PBR he's a fantastic job of getting out there and making those connections but I would tell him still call the high school coach still talk to the summer coach let's really do our due diligence and then to your point talking with other coaches about him but yeah all those things and then you know how is he in warm-up you know how is he on the visit did he show up a parent you know while they were sitting here meeting with us you know did maybe our philosophies not aligned you know all those kind of things matter absolutely yeah and I think you mentioned it call the high school coach call the summer ball coach like I think those are two completely different atmospheres the high school coach is going to know how many how late how many times that kids been late to school or you know how his academics are the summer ball coach is maybe going to have more of the off the field perspective because they're traveling with them and staying at some hotels or different things so like it's two completely different perspectives and you if they blend then you know that the kids going to be a match or a fit if you know that things are intertwined with each other between school and summer ball so I think that that's really important having communication with both coaches if you can enable to I think that's that's a really key component so yeah I think that's great is there anything else you'd like to add on that note no I think you do okay okay and then kind of my last question for you just kind of in getting to know you for our listeners getting to know you better like and something that maybe they could help themselves out personally is there anything books people resources the ABCA different things like what are what are things that have helped really mold you into the coach you are right now and are what are the things that were important to you in that first decade of coaching and what are the things that are important to you now in coaching and have has that shifted because I know it's shifted for myself in a lot of ways so I'm just curious now I mean you got probably almost two decades or twice the amount of experience that I do and it's just always really interesting to see how our perspectives change decade by decade that we're in the game yeah so a quick book that I love lead for God's sake I think that's an incredible book it really makes you reflect on what you're doing as a coach but who helped mold me you know again Russ Bortel you know when I started here I was just getting my master's degree at Western Michigan and this was a perfect opportunity to come reconnect with my old friend Jim Miller and Russ and again Russ allowed me to make a lot of mistakes he gave me a lot of responsibility let me coach and forever grateful for him he really groomed me to take this thing over and we lost Russ two years ago to cancer and you know he is to all the guys that have come through the Kellogg program because you know he had been here 20 years before me you know that you know he's a guy that built this thing and you know he's a guy that did it right with no shortcuts blue-collar approach and you know that transparency and communication was all there so you know with that and then Jim Miller you know being on this ride for 26 years and being a part of all this I can't state enough you know how much he's helped me even as our time as assistant and just as a husband and father and everything else with all the life experiences that he's had and so you know I think the mentorship things really important you know I always get energized when I talk to you on the phone and I'm talking to good people and and and people that are passionate about impacting young men's lives it energizes me I'm always asking questions I'm always learning and that's what's incredible about this game you know as far as what you know differently now than before yeah there's no doubt you know I'm you know first ten years versus maybe the last ten years I always cared about the players but look I'm sure I didn't communicate as effectively in that first ten years and maybe see the 10,000 foot view as often as you need to you know I think now you start looking at okay what tools can we give them to make them employable and great husbands and fathers and you know we're still very competitive and look winning is honorable you know and so we want to do the things necessary deserve to win all the time but when that's happening then again like you said earlier the wins and losses kind of take care of themselves but you know what really matters the relationships you know we've got a alumni golf outing coming up in two weeks now this is alum this is a current players and we've already got 24 foursomes and you know these guys it's a family and I'm grateful just to be a part of it and so I look forward to this event every year to just you know talk about stories from back in the day and you know get caught up with their families and now I understand that's what it's about and you know some of the other stuff you know those things don't really matter so you talk about the alum now I think that that's a huge part of culture and when I had tidy on the podcast you know he has a golf outing every year as well and I think a lot of times coaches that are really passionate and really care about their players they are really in tuned with their alumni and want to stay connected with them and I think that those are the programs that have sustained success over the course of one decade two decades three decades if that coach is there that it just because of the care of people is what helps sustain success the players know that you know it's not they aren't just a number they have a name being in that program and what this isn't anything Pat ourselves on the back and Traversy but we try and do the same thing with our alumni we've for each of the past couple years we've invited all the alumni to an alumni event over Christmas break if whoever is able to and now we usually only get guys from Michigan because most guys are across the country or whatever but just having that importance of the alumni knowing that they've made an impact during their time here and we're just a summer ball program they're only here for two and a half months most guys only for one summer we might be fortunate to have a couple guys back for two or three years but those are pretty far and few between but I think your focus on alumni reflects how much you care about your players there at Kellogg and and I think that's why so many guys have had such great experiences there's because they know that you and the coaching staff at Kellogg really care about them as people and helping move them on to a four-year school as well and finding that right fit for them and I guess actually if you can finish on that in terms of like helping guys find a spot for a four-year it's kind of the same thing in terms of judging character for the players out of high school but it's also judging the program that they're going to and making sure that that's going to be a right fit for the player you don't have to dive into any specific programs but just curious like how do you how do you manage that because you're you're in basically a mediator in a lot of ways you're you're helping them get there and then you're helping ship them out how do you do that as a coach yeah you know the first thing is we have to work just as hard to recruit them out of here as we do to bring a man we owe him that right and so you know we want them to come here close the gap between their potential performance and wherever that leads to whether it's the highest level or the best fit which we preach a lot then that's where it needs to be and so you know I think we have to be very honest in that process as we talk to the four-year schools but you know the big thing we have to get them exposure we just got to get them here you know it's it's we certainly communicate with our sophomores about a list of schools whether it's dream schools or fits me that's got a match the academic piece as well and then we encourage them certainly to reach out because they want to hear from them but we also are very much into making calls on their behalves and and we you know you got a screen a little bit if you feel like that may not be a good fit for a number of reasons you your job is to talk to your player about those concerns certainly not to make any decisions for them and people get that mixed up a little bit it's but but we just want to guide them through the process because we've invested a lot together and this thing and we care about them and we want to see this work and I think when people look at junior college programs and you look at the track record of success how they do in the classroom and then I think you want to look at how they do when they've left because that's a reflection of the environment that they've been in and so we really try to get these guys to find the right fit and and and sometimes that's not initially aligned with what their dream was but you know that's our job and fortunately you know the majority of our players have left here and went and had great experiences at four-year schools yeah no doubt at all so cool well we'll wrap it up there this was awesome man I really appreciate you coming on and yeah like I said been wanting to get you on the podcast didn't want to bug you too much during the season and great time during the summer while we while you guys have maybe a little bit more time on your hands you know you're all recruiting but yeah it's really glad that you came on and shared some insights within your program and I know the audience here will will definitely benefit from having you on this episode so honored to be here and best of luck to you the rest of the summer all right thanks man we'll talk soon thanks for joining us on this week's episode of the unparalleled performance podcast and if you enjoyed it please share with those around you we'll see you next week and go dominate your day