The one with 3 wins on a weekend

The podcast is called the WRAP podcast and covers regional and national rugby in Wales. They discuss the Prediction League, Drink of the Week, and news about the rebranding of the EDC to Super Rugby Cymru (SRC). The new competition will have 10 teams and each team will play 18 home and away league fixtures. There will also be a separate competition called the Super Rugby Cymru Cup. The clubs have signed up to a salary cap system of £150,000. The podcasters share their thoughts on the rebranding and discuss the new features of the competition, including the SRC Challenger Shield. So, Harley, before we start, right, can we, can we do, like, the prediction league at the start? No. Can we do it, like, in the middle bit before we do all the other stuff? No. I've got to wait till the end? Yes. Same as every week. Bastard. Okay. Let's start the show, then. Welcome to the WRAP podcast, the place to catch up on all the regional and national rugby in Wales. You can find us on all the usual social media platforms and message us through there, if you want, or you can email us on welshregionalrugbypod at gmail.com. With all the boring stuff out of the way, let's talk rugby. Hello and welcome to this week's edition of the WRAP podcast with me, Lee G, joining me, as always, is the happy crew, Jamie, Harley and James. Good evening, gentlemen. Hello. Yeah. This is a nice sunny evening, isn't it? It's been a while since we've had it. It's a shame we're finishing the season, right? So, let us start, as always, are you sure I can't do Prediction League now, Harley? Yes. And this is getting hammier by the second. Guess what a really good week on Prediction League is. We'll get into that later. Let's start with Drink of the Week. So, James, you get to go first this week, mate. What have you got for Drink of the Week? So, I was in Brighton on the weekend, I had a mate to leave into for work, so I ended up at this little pub, really, sort of like on the back streets, and they had some local stuff on, it was called Sona, and it was a really, really nice session there, but I sort of looked, you can't find it anywhere, it's a really local thing, so I asked the guy what's the closest thing to it, and he said, if you could find the Beavertown Heavy Gravity, so I'm going for Beavertown Heavy Gravity, it's a hazy IPA, 6.5%, it's nice, like, Beavertown's a very safe option, but anyways, I'm like, neck oil is in every pub you can go to now, it's a very safe option, but let's try it, I haven't actually tried it yet. I think I had that a while ago, so, no, but, yeah, Beavertown, great, great little beer. Cool. Harley, what have you got this week? So, I've actually got a slightly interesting story for a beer, for a change, I'm saying slightly to, you know, just make sure your expectations aren't as low as they need to be. So, normally Saturday mornings we go swimming with our little girl, but that got cancelled, so we decided to go to Devon County Show. I could just feel Jamie, James, wanting to go, sorry, bastard, I'm sure he'll come up with that name. Anyway, but what I found was a new brewery called Bains Brewery, and I liked what they had on offer so much, I bought a case of 12 beers, mixed, and this is one, it's the one I wanted to highlight this week, and it's called Funky Monkey, and it's in collaboration with Painton Zoo in announcement of the new baboon enclosure they've got there, so a certain amount of money from every bottle sold goes to Painton Zoo, and, you know, considering how much my little girl loves almond oils, I felt I'm going to help her out by drinking beer. So, just the bollocks on the back, Bains Brewery has teamed up with Painton Zoo to brew this limited edition beer celebrating its new baboon exhibit, called Halidreus Hill. Funky Monkey is a copper-coloured pale ale with cheeky citrus character and fruity hoppy notes. Best of all, 5% of the proceeds go towards wildlife conservation. Bains Brewery is proud to have raised more than £27,000 to help protect indigenous species in partnership with Painton Zoo. Now it's extra wanky bollocks when it's saying about how great guys we are. I didn't bought a beer like that earlier, actually, it was a Northern Monk one, same brewery I had last week that was wanky, charity bollocks like that. Well, as we're talking wanky bollocks, we had a photo in on Twitter over the weekend, where now, not only do you get wanky bollocks on the side of the bottle, you get wanky bollocks on the glass as you're drinking it. So this came in from Paul Price, and on the side of the glass it's got, the aroma is a tropical fruit and herbal lemon. I don't know what herbal lemon is, but that's what this beer was. It tastes crisp, clean, and of citrus fruit, and it finishes with a brisk, refreshing citrus. Well, he's finished the pint before he's actually sent it in to us, so we've got an empty one. But that's how much it's spreading, where people are now sending us the wanky bollocks off the side of the glass, not just off the bottle, so well done on that. Jamie, what have you got this week, mate? I got another beer from Mumbles Brewery, Virgin as it's called, so it's a hazy, fruity IPA, 4.5%. Now, if we're talking wanky bollocks, I've got a contender for wanky bollocks of the season, right? Have a listen to this, and listen good, because this is quite wanky. Follow the myth, be moved from the earth to the heavens with a full, yet soft and creamy body, delicate bitterness, and the generous blessing of mandarin, tangerine, and strawberry aromas that bloom from the purest entity. That has got away wanky bollocks of the season, surely, right then. What do you think? That's a bit of a monologue you usually hear before, like, Wales or Italy. Yeah, that's a Michael Caine level, isn't it? I'm expecting to see Gabby Logan pop up on the screen now with a bunch of them on. It's not as fruity as I hoped, though. It's a bit disappointing, this beer. It's OK, but when it says fruity IPA, I want a fruity IPA, and it's not quite fruity enough for me, but it's all right, but that is some seriously wanky bollocks, there. We should do, when we do end of season awards, and then we've got nothing to talk about. I was just about to do it. Yeah, just speaking of wanky bollocks awards, that's off-season taking care of. That's the fun part of that, surely. That's got to be the best part of that, right there. I sent the boys a pint last week. Is it last week? Yeah, last week. I don't know, you put it in the chat. I put the one in that pint, the one in the chat. Anyway, I sent that last week, and it was really, really nice. I nearly went, like, via that pub on the way home to see if I could get in, like, a plastic glass and break it up. It's only, like, a minute and a half walk down the beach to this pub, and the best thing about it, because it always reminds me, and I'm sorry to bring this up, but of the Black Lion game. Right, yeah. Because everyone kept going on Twitter saying, oh, you lost to a pub, you know, your next, like, opponent's going to be the dog and duck, and that's what this pub is called. Every time I walk past a dog and duck, except I walk past it in my rugby, I just think, oh, yeah, Starlers are going to get, like, 50 put on them by the dog and duck. We haven't even finished drink of the week, and you're already on it, mate. Right, mine is, I've gone for a Brewdog, I've gone for Wingman, which is a Session, what do we mean by a Session IPA? IPA, to me, is an IPA. They're weaker. Because you can drink more without falling on the floor. See, to me, a Session is where you go for the hard stuff, and you go proper hard. A Session would be, you can drink multiple. Last week I had a fucking 8%, and I haven't had a Session. Yeah, I've left my 8% one in the fridge, and I'm saving that for a special day. Yeah, this one's only 4.3. So, the wanky bollocks on this is the eagle has landed, and that's it. That's nice and simple and straightforward, so, yeah. And it is actually quite a clear, light one. It's not bad. But it is quite, not a bitter taste to it, but it leaves an aftertaste. Anyway, let's move on to Jamie's Newsdesk. Jamie, all yours, my friend. Newsdesk, right. Shall we start with the EDC, which is now BSRC? So, Lee, any thoughts on the rebranding? Do you know what? This weekend, I gave myself a little jobs list for this weekend, and it was to do the logos for the EDC podcast, yeah? I spoke to the WIU about this last week. I spoke to the media guys from the EDC last week. Nothing. Didn't say fuck all, yeah? And then, it was a nice weekend, so I thought, I'll mow the lawn. I'll get my tomatoes out. I'll, you know, I'll get some flowers in, and all of that kind of stuff. Took the whole weekend. Didn't get to do the logos. And then, Sunday night, they go and change the bloody name. Bastards. Anyway, I haven't done any logos. I've just had to change the Twitter handle. Okay, so anyway, EDC is now SRC. So, it's Super Rugby Cymru. So, the season will kick off on the second weekend of September, with the clubs playing 18 home and away league fixtures in the regular season, before progressing to playoff rounds and a grand final. There's going to be a separate competition, then, called the Super Rugby Cymru Cup, and that's going to be scheduled during the 2025 Six Nations. So, remember, there's 10 teams in this competition, and each team will play a minimum of 23 games over the course of the season, with a further trophy available, known as the SRC Challenger Shield. The clubs have signed up to a salary cap system that will enable them to spend up to £150,000 on a squad of 32 players, although there will be exceptions. It doesn't mention what the exceptions are, but they've got a salary cap of £150,000. So, it was all announced. It's new, shiny logos, new branding, Super Rugby Cymru. What do we think of this? I like the look of it, though, to be honest. What do you guys think? Yeah, one thing you didn't put on, which actually is a fantastic... It's probably one of the best things to have ripped off the New Zealand system, is they've got their own version of the Rang 30 Shield. So, it's basically a linear championship. So, it's going to start with Dover's winning the league last season, and for every home game, they've got to defend it. And then if the awaiting wins, they get the shield, and then they've got to defend it. And then I think there's like an incentive then to be a big team who finishes with it at the end of the season. It's a good way to build up rivalries, and it means that every home game, there's always going to be something on the line. Or, you know, even if you're away and you're not doing well, there's still a chance to get a bit of silverware. They did mention briefly what the exceptions were. They didn't say how they work. So, there's going to be some exceptions for dual registered players, which I presume is if you're, you know, if it's a URC team, you know, so Dragons, Scouts, whatever, and you're going down for fitness or to get game time, then you get a really solid cap release. Also, there's going to be release for players recently released from the senior academy or under 18s, just to try and keep them in the system, which I think could be one way where they keep the numbers up above 32, and also thin for injuries. So, like I said, they don't say how it works. What did you say the total amount was, Jim? Did you say it was £150,000? That's what it says, sir, yeah. I got this from the BBC website. So, they're saying it's £150,000 on a squad of 32 players, although there will be exceptions. They mentioned CSRC, Challenger Shield. That's a FIFA trophy there. The 23 games over the course of the season. So, £150,000 divided by 32 is £4,687. Yeah. That's below junior level. This is where you get allocations of academy players. So, academy players are outside of... So, academy players are not employed. Like, say, take Bridgend, for example, now. They're signing Harvey Nash and Ben Bunnell, right? From Ponty. So, the likelihood is Ben Bunnell might get offered a contract by Cardiff. So, he's employed by Cardiff Rugby, but will be allocated to Bridgend, say. He might not be. He might go back to the ranks. So, he wouldn't be paid by Cardiff Ranks. He'd be paid by Cardiff Rugby. Harvey Nash, however, who's no longer a professional rugby player, so he got released from his contract by the Ospreys, would be employed by Bridgend. So, he'd fall under that salary cap. So, he'd be an employee of said club. So, it's not £150,000 divided by 4, by 32. It's £150,000 divided by X amount. But the clubs have got to match that funding. This is the thing. So, it's not the WIU are giving them £150,000, but I'm pretty sure they've got to put in a substantial amount of money towards things as well, if I read correctly, which I might not have. No, I did read that as well. It's a bit confusing. It's a bit confusing. The number of things, it's £105,000. That's £105,000 as I heard, yeah. Yeah. And then, obviously, some of that salary caps from the back for paying staff and whatever. And then, I think, some overheads over the top. But then, there's an agreement with the regions to give allocations to certain players. So, I said, I think you might see that. There'll be a few more Cardiff people going more towards Bridgend, as that's the only other team other than the Rags. Otherwise, the Rags could basically use that £150,000 to buy 3 or 4 decent semi-pro players and then just fill up an academy. Yeah. I've spoken to a couple of Scarlet's Academy players that were going to Sandbury. And they're basically just staying on a senior academy contract. But that contract will be—within that contract now, it's written that they signed for Flanderbury. They'll be registered for insurance purposes, won't they? Yeah. Whereas before, you could have gone Flanderbury or Carmarthen Queen's. You know, and some players have played for Flanderbury for like 4 or 5 games, then gone into Scarlet and then gone up to— That would be a permit, not a registration. That's right. It's a bit more kind of— What I will do is I will speak to the guys at the WIU again. Oh, right. Can we have somebody on maybe for our first podcast after I've done the logos and actually got everybody together? We'll do it. What we want to do for that new podcast is to speak to every team in the off-season and just give everybody a bit of a, you know, this is what it's like, this is what the club is like, this is what you can expect, what the ambitions are and all that kind of stuff. So, yes, that bit of it is slowly taking shape. But we might do a very early one on, can somebody explain to us what the rules are, please? That might be a nice— The devil is in the detail, isn't it? That was just a brief overview of what I gave then. But, yeah, there's a lot more to it than what I said. You have to look it up. I think it looks really good. I think the branding around it is really good. I like the name Super Rugby Cymru. You know, the graphics they put out, you do need some sort of accounting degree to read. Only when they actually released the picture list did I understand what was going on. But I like how they've used the flags and different sort of counties around Wales. I like how upfront they've been in terms of salary cap and how each club has to have now a set of coaches that are standard, up to a certain standard. And now I have a theory, Harley, you might agree with me, and I thought the same thing, this is where the Steve Law thing comes in. Obviously, Steve Law got moved on. I think that part of the SLC is developing, and I think Dan said this on Central, part of the SLC is not only developing players for regional rugby and also international rugby, it's developing coaches as well. So, have Cardiff identified or WIU identified that Dan Fish could be an attack coach in the future, or it could be a defence coach in the future, you know, even a head coach. So, this is the place to cut his teeth more than he has done at Glammy Wanderers or wherever else he's gone. I think he's been ranked as a head coach for a while as well. You mentioned Dan spoke about on the call, and I think that's really great. And actually having Josh Turnbull there as well as another development coach. And I think it's a key thing that the director of rugby for the Rags is Griff Rees, and I haven't seen him for years, to sort of signal, you know, this is giving it all, this is all about development, whether it's coaches, players, I think even physios, like any, you know, if they've got like a little pathway of physios, so they get people into new training, and then they work up, and then they eventually go and be Sands Brothers mates for the senior team. There is one thing I got, we haven't quite touched on yet, but one thing I do like is at the end of season, everyone gets a knockout fixture, which I hate for serious proper league, but considering this is a development league, I think it's important that, you know, these developing players are given experiences of knockout rugby, so they know what it's like, and, you know, having to play a game of say, you know, one drop ball could be the difference between you going through your work for the next round or getting dropped out. So I think that's quite a good addition, even if it is slightly weird. You do, but when you come bottom of the table, and I've only ever come bottom of the table once, you do get to that last game of the season, you think, oh, fuck this, I'm, that's it, that season's done, I'm off now for a couple of weeks, and just to lay low and get a bit of rest and what have you, and then you go, no, no, no, we've got a knockout competition for a couple of weeks now as well, I can think of nothing worse if you're bottom of the table, having to do that. That's what you want, though. Yeah. If you want to consider yourself a semi-professional gear into a professional outfit, then you can't just come to the end of the season and go, we're bottom, I can't be fucked anymore. It's great when you're in village rugby, you know, great when you're fucking Div 4, Central West, you know, After End versus Glais, but it's not as an SRC club, where it's not like, you know, all right, you can argue some clubs have got in by default, but you have to provide an application to show why you deserve to be there. So you've got to maintain professional standards throughout. So yeah, even if you do finish bottom of the league, you've won three games all season, and you've got to go play knockout rugby, that's the whole idea of this. It's essentially the Premiership, it's essentially the same set as the Gallagher Premiership, but playing a few more games. And without relegation. Yeah, exactly. The Gallagher Premiership has no relegation. That's because everybody keeps going bust rather than getting relegated. You were up in that ages ago anyway. You've got the Prem Cup, essentially, in that sort of, I mean, that's what all the Welsh fans love, they love the Gallagher Premiership. So, you know, they've got their wish. He's stoking it, he's stoking it. Right, what else have we got on the news this game? Right, we've got some Cardiff and Wales injury news. So, Callum Sheedy is going to be up for a few months after picking up a knee injury on the final day of the season for Bristol against Harlequin. So he left the field in the 37th minute after sustaining a PCL injury. So that means that Sheedy is going to be unavailable for Wales' Summer Tour of Australia. I will likely make his return to Rugby in September, though they're saying it could be longer than that. And Teddy Williams has also undergone shoulder surgery, ruling him out of Wales' Summer Tour, which is a shame. That's sick, I'm a big fan of Teddy Williams. And then in other news then, let's talk about what happened on Sunday night. So, the WRU Executive Director of Rugby, Nigel Walker, he appeared on Scrum 5 on Sunday night and he was expertly grilled by Lauren Jenkins, who really is the best in the business. A really good interview, actually. So, what were the main talking points of this interview? The biggest one, and the one that's doing all the rounds on social media, is cutting the number of regions is still an option. That's being discussed and considered, according to Nigel Walker. So he said, at the moment we're at four, are we going to try and make four work for the foreseeable future? But of course, the conversations around reducing the regions from four to three has to be on the table. He also omitted the £4.5 million playing budgets for next season. He said that's going to be tough, but he said that if we could get our reaches to £5.5 million slash £6 million, then they could be competitive. That's not to say they don't have the same budget as La Rochelle or Leinster, but they could build a squad, he said. And he also mentioned an uplift in funding in the coming years. He also said that Warren Gatland has the full backing of the WRU. So Walker said that Gatland had the toughest year he's ever had, but he was dealt a bad hand and they expect results to improve over the next 12 to 18 months. Walker hinted that WRU may review participation in the URC after the current agreement has ended, and also admitted that the WRU could have done more to prevent the Mario Faber subpoena being lost to England. And he also mentioned a review has taken place at the women's game after Wales finished bottom in the Six Nations. So, yeah, there's quite a few talking points. The full interview is on Scrum 5. If you haven't watched it, I'd urge you all to do it, because it's quite interesting. Like I said, Laurence Eggers did a really good job of interrogating Nigel Walker. Now, Harley and James, I know you watched this. What did you make of Walker's comments? Was there anything there that stood out to you? Yeah, how useless Nicky Roberts and James Huck were. Have you ever seen two blokes that look more uncomfortable in a conversation? Or just like, you know, the symbol monkey going like that. That's what's going on in both. And Nicky Roberts is not bad. I don't hate Nicky. I like him in Scrum 24. And I liked James Huck. He's a nice guy. He's not the best pundit in the world, but he's not the worst. But he's just, honestly, Laurence Eggers is doing all the lifting. Yeah. But no, there's a few things there. Like, you know, I think for me, she took him to the cleaners. Like I've never seen a man screw him so much in my life. You know, so he looked so, he looked like shrunk into a chair. But as always, I gotta say, no luck fair play for him to do in it. It wouldn't have happened under the last regime, you know, as much as the gravy train is very much within Nigel's grasp. He did front up. He did go on. I've got to commend him for that. And actually, I thought when he spoke about the Super Rugby Cymru stuff, you could see him relax a bit more. And I thought he spoke really well around that. And clearly, I think his passion lies within the development of young talent in Wales, around coaching and playing and going right down the pyramid in terms of how we get players in from what's a talent identification and then retention rate like. So we talked recently about the skills clinic being put on at the Vale every Monday for academy players, things like that. You could see he's clearly really passionate about it. And that's quite endearing, actually, and quite good to see because, you know, I think 10 years ago when I was flirting around that system, there was nothing like that. It was you did trials at the academy. If you didn't get in, you didn't get in. That was it. You might get put on a reserve list and that was it. And that's it. But now from 13 onwards, there's a hopefully now clearer route. But you just can't escape the stuff around regional games. You know, I think that they were clearly badgering for him for an answer around cutting a region. But Nicky Robertson was. He was very keen to get that question. It was straight off the bat. He was right. Have you noticed the Ospreys employee wasn't? Yes. Can I just interject on this bit because it is pertinent to this bit. But the moment Nicky Robertson put in the dagger from Hockey was hilarious. They just shot him a look. Thank you. Fucking I'm going to have to see. And the thing is, there's a point when he starts open academy players and academy coaches, he just kept looking at Hockey and said, like yourself, like yourself. I'm like, all right, calm down. You don't get attacked. Then there's a change. It's like, no, but you can't escape the fact that he. Waffled and muddled his way through the regional game answers. I think he obviously clearly came in with prepared statements around it. And I think Jenkins is questioning through him the fuck off. And how direct she was with the line of questioning as well. So it's a very mixed bag for Nigel. But in terms of the regional game, she took him to the absolute cleaners. Go on. Yeah. So basically build on your point about him being the development. That's his job. You know, he's in the WLU nominally to be in charge of the development side, you know, the elite performance. He's not there to deal with the finances and stuff. But unfortunately, he's the only one who's willing to come on camera. So he has to answer these questions. And he's getting flustered because he didn't know. It's the same thing as when you, you know, like when you know, when I've been a student, when other students are, they try and blag an answer and they can't get their way up. And you basically, you know, that's how, you know, giving these presentations. When someone goes through. Have you got another one? But what was that? I don't know. Alexa. Sounded like Alexa. Yeah. I think the one came in, she said the Alexa one. But anyways, it's one of these times when people flag their way to answers and they don't really know the answer. And there's certain resemblance. I mean, as for the whole thing about the three, the four regions go down to three or two regions being dropped, you know, you know, it's all on the table. This is inconsistent with the WIU you've been saying since the last report came through. So I don't really see what's new. I feel like actually, although Lauren did a fantastic job, I think a more important thing would be to say, when are we getting these budgets over the line? We signed, you know, the pro club signed an agreement with the WIU to say, these are our budgets for the next six years. So that we don't have to be coming into the last weekend to say we don't know what our full budget is for next season. And that's where I think they really should kneel down. Nevermind the three, you know, is it three plus one, two plus one plus one. He was doing lots of math equations in that statement. But I feel like they went the wrong way with the question. I said EDC, EDC, which I'm going to keep calling that until it starts, because I'm still one of those people who call it the CIA and the Principality State and Principality State has been a millennium for years. So the bit for me is, I think we're interviewing the wrong person. I want to hear what Abby Teehan is going to say. She's here in Italy the same day. But I've heard conversations, I've spoken to people who've spoken to Abby Teehan, yeah, and the bit that comes through consistently, yeah, so two different conversations from two different people, right? She wants three sides and then Anglo-Welsh speaks. That comes through really, really clearly from it. That's what she's aiming for. That's what she's going for. And everybody else needs to get in that. And that, to me, just is, well, we haven't really changed, have we? We're still in the way the old lot used to do it. We're just, there's a different aim, but we're still doing it the same way. And to hell with everybody. And that's the bit that concerns me, is the fact that, you know, we've got somebody that used to work for Suella Braverman, for God's sake, in charge of Welsh Rugby and treating it in pretty much the same way. And that just kind of winds me up. So if all of that is a load of shit, yeah, and actually that's not what she's like, and that's just stuff that she's saying off the record, then go on the record and say, this is what I believe in. Go on the record on Scrum 5 and say, right, here's a list of questions. This is what I want to ask, and this is what I want to get at. Because to me, the whole point of her coming in was to make big, broad, sweeping changes. And I love the SRC, you know, I'm fully on board with that. I think that'll be a huge success. Dropping to three sides in an Anglo-Welsh league is pandering to the RFU and sounds to me like somebody's already banging on the door, can I have an MBE, please? And that's all she's interested in. But what Walker said was, sorry, we used to talk about the three teams. He did say that there's no mechanism for it currently, and it would take agreement from all the parties. So, you know, no one's going to agree to cut their team money, you know, to lose all our income. So I think the only way, me personally, I think the only way we're going to get to three teams is if one of our teams goes bust. If one of our teams are in serious financial dire straits, and then they'll be it then. But no one's going to willingly hold their hands and go, yeah, we'll be cut. And there's no mechanism for it. These are four privately owned businesses now. There's no mechanism for it, there's a stance. But you look at how close... I think that's really the main budget. Sorry, just to, I just want to pop on to Jamie's point there. Do you think that's why, the cynic in me is saying, they're fucking about with the budgets again, because they know how hands and mouth some of the clubs have been? No, I don't think... They're trying to force a team to fold. No, I don't think so, because there'll be a lawsuit there. You could argue that in court and then you just get a payout. You can't... Yes, I get what you're saying. And you could say, that idea's been floating around for a number of years. The bit that I think Jamie was alluding to there was the fact that they are four private businesses. They're four privately owned businesses with financial backing and boards and everything like that. If the WIU wanted to, and we're working on this under the WIU want to cut down for three regions. They had their chance last year. They had their chance when Dragons were owned by the Welsh Rugby Union to essentially cease trading in the existence of Dragons, right? If that's what they wanted to do, they could have done it and not gone through with the sale to David Buttress and co. Jamie, am I right there? They could have, but don't forget, if that happened, that would have had a huge knock on effect to the other regions then, because a lot of debt would have been passed to them. That's what David Buttress said, that it wouldn't have been easy to just cut the Dragons and the rest get money, it would have had a huge knock on effect. But yeah, you are right, they could have used the Dragons, yeah. If we're working on a political view, that they want to do that. The other thing is, exactly what you just said, cutting down to three, a layman now would think that cutting down to three means you have more money to spend there. Now, I've seen multiple things say, oh, if we cut down to two, we'll have nine, 10 million each. I said, no, we'll just have more fucking debt. That's what people don't get is the agreement that we've essentially been pushed into signing is that we're going to take on more debt come any of the regions shutting, right, or any of the regions ceasing to exist. So, look, there's a lot there. There's a lot to take in. For me, yeah. So, Dragons have nearly gone bust. Cardiff nearly went bust last year. There's constant rumours about Osprey and there's constant questions about how Scarlet's are financing their debt and all that kind of stuff. If we get to that bit, we should get to a way, it'll be just a pick and choose. And from what I'm getting from those conversations is there isn't a lot of empathy for the game. There's a lot of empathy for the money and where the money comes from and where the money goes to. There's not a lot of empathy for the game. And, you know, how we develop the game in Wales. In Wales, the game is more important than 15 guys or 30 guys on a pitch on a Saturday afternoon. You know, it's more important than that. It's part of the culture. It's part of who we are. It's part of what we do. And that is why it is important that the person at the top of the WRU understands how important the game is and how important it is to have four sides. You know, how important it is to have a really top quality development side in the north of the country. Yeah. How important it is to look after players in the middle of the country where there is no big team. You know, both Wales used to be the biggest team in mid Wales, you know. So, the person at the top of the WRU, yes, needs to understand commercial stuff. Yes, needs to understand the professional side. But the game as a whole is bigger than them and their NBE or their CBE or their Knighthood or whatever the fuck it is they want to go for. So, that's my view. Yes, I haven't watched that interview, Jamie. I've got other things on. You should, too. You should take, you know, you can get through it. It's the last half of the show. It is quite, you know, interesting. I'm just coming off conversations that I know people have had with her. And that's the bit that pisses me off. She should be the one on the telly. That's what she was brought in to do. She was brought in to be the new head of the WRU. She was brought in to be the person that sits in front of the camera and says, you know what, this is on my shoulders. This is what we're going to do. And we're going to do this. And we're going to do this. And this is what I believe in. And this is what the future is. No, I get that. Yeah. The problem is, it's well known in Welsh rugby circles that the WRU, like in public, they will say, we're sticking with four. And, you know, for now, behind closed doors, it's well known that they actually want three teams. And if a team does go into financial trouble, the WRU are not going to step in. They won't do what they did for the Dragons. That's not going to happen this time. So that is the only way I can see a team that ceases to exist is if they go financially bust. And I think secretly, that's what the WRU would want, because it would make it easier for them. They won't say it publicly, but they would much prefer to have three teams. So, yeah, it's on all the regions to make sure that they're financially competent and, you know, they're sustainable. Because if they're not, there's big trouble ahead. Yeah, I'd agree on that. Right, let's lighten the mood, Jim. Let's talk about Corey Hill. Wow. I've made my feelings clear about this on X today. I wasn't going to talk about it tonight, but I will, seeing as you've mentioned it. So, Mark Pickering, who's a freelance journalist for a website called rugbyjp.com, he's reporting that Wales are looking into a recall for Corey Hill. So it says, Rugbyjp.com can exclusively reveal that the Welsh Rugby Union has contacted Seacon Roberts about Hill's status, that's his club, and availability as one Gatlin site prepared to tour Australia in July. So Hill's got 32 caps. And, you know, I've made this point already. First of all, it's a backward step. I don't think we need Hill. I don't think we want him. I certainly don't want him. Why are we looking at this guy when you've got Darth Jenkins, Will Rowlands, Ben Carter, Chris Chunzer, James Fender, Hugh Sutton, James Rathie, Seb Davies, et cetera? We've got options. We don't need Hill. And the whole thing needs a sour taste in my mouth, because we all know what happened, the debt collecting with the single, but we all know last year. We don't get into it now. It would leave a really sour taste in my mouth if the Welsh Rugby Union recalled him. Yeah, I've made my thoughts on that. I've got no time for it whatsoever. I don't know what you've got to think, but a big backward step if it is true. Yeah, if that turns out to be true, there will be shit storms everywhere. I don't know a single player or supporter going, oh, do you know what we're really missing? Corley Hill. Nobody's saying that. Never seen it anyway. Nobody's saying that. No. No. And maybe Warren Gatland. If I tell you we are missing, but we could bring back from Japan, Jake Ball. Jake Ball. Oh, yeah, man. Yes. We have met Jake Ball's ball carrier big time. If we're going to bring back experienced international lads from Japan, why don't we go to Jake Ball? Wouldn't you rather have him call the Oaks, I assume? Yeah, I'd rather. I'd rather he's like, baby. Look, I'm jealous because he's got a big bushy beard. I'd rather Brett Kabeen and his fucking cue ball head come back. So the best I can do is a Joe Davis. Jake Ball is playing semi-pro rugby. And he's still an animal. So? He's still bang up there. He still does what he needs to do to be a pro player, mate. He's 32. So he's not. He's 32, yeah. He's not yet to. Yeah. But there's also, he... The Corley Hill thing, right? James is absolutely right. He's an abhorrent human who is an arsehole, right? And I'm glad he didn't get another contract with a Welsh team. You know, he was so abhorrent that the French didn't want him and they literally employed domestic abusers. You know, and he's playing, what is it? Division 2 rugby in Japan. He's only playing Div 1. He's also 32. He's the same age as Jake Ball, by the way. They're the same age. And he had his peak. He peaked in 2018. And I remember that England performance. He was fucking ace in that game. He was, yeah. And I'm not rubbishing him as a player. No, he's a great player, but he made some terrible choices. He's got to live with that. And also, we've got to accept as the Welsh rugby public, right, that we have to move on and earth new talent. I listened to a podcast recently, and they were talking about the 2005 Lions tour. And Clive Woodward was obsessed with his 2003 England team. And they were basically his safety black keys. So when he felt that it wasn't going well, so who's he going to call? He's going to wait for Tyndall to be fit. He's going to wait for Wilkinson to be fit. Phil Vickery. And Gatland can fall into this trap, really. And he's lucky. We're quite lucky that a lot of that team have now retired. Corey Hill's safety black key. Let's bring it back. Because I know Corey Hill's good. He doesn't have to trust anyone else to perform. So we can't fall into that trap. Don't you just hate these podcasts that just go on about all these games that were played years ago? Oh, I hate hearing your tips, don't I? I don't see anything from the 2005 Lions tour. So it was good probably learning about it. I was being fucking... Can I just say, though? You talk about Clive Woodward being obsessed with that 2003 team as if that's not the same 20-odd years later. Right. Have we got anything else to discuss? Anything? Go on, let's have a really contentious one, Jim. The only other bit of news I've got, just quickly. Scarlets are in talks to sign Wales' tight-knit prop Henry Thomas from Kast. I don't know how you feel about that. Do you feel that would be a good pick-up for you? Couldn't get much worse, could we? At least it's not from sale. Yeah, exactly. Give him three games, he'll be out injured, so yeah. Yeah, so you'll be okay with that, won't you? I'll be fine. We need something. Let's be fair, he's only being signed so he can play for Wales. Yeah. It's the same as Plumtree. Plumtree's coming as a... You're going to sign him. Plumtree's a fucking money-laundering scheme. Because he's been injured, and now he'll play two games for Scarlets, go play for Wales, and rinse and repeat, effectively. I genuinely thought when he went down... I mean, we'll get on to the game, but I genuinely thought when he went down like the first 10 minutes, that was it, and we weren't going to see him again until he was in Australia. Yeah, until the next World Cup, yeah. Massive forward, a pass as well, so I won't try. Anyway, we'll talk about that later. I'm not having that, I'm not having that. It was a great little slap. You didn't watch the bastards first, did you? Aggressively slapped. Last bit of news then. James, I'm going to come to you this one, because you know this guy. Dragons have signed 21-year-old Welsh hocker Ollie Burrows from Exeter Chiefs. The highly-rated Ollie Burrows, because he's from Leith, isn't he? He comes from the Australian Academy. Wee-oo, wee-oo, wee-oo. Highly-rated clackson. Can you tell me all about highly-rated Ollie Burrows, please? So yeah, he's a product of Leith Athletic RFC. Same club that Reuben Morgan-Williams came up through. I think obviously Reuben's a couple of years older. Was in and around the Ospreys Academy. Really sort of, highly sought of. Big guy. Heavy, you know, quite heavy for a hooker in the modern, sort of that modern birth, but really good ball skills. Comfortable, you know, in playing. Had an opportunity to go to university. At the time, because how old is he now? He's 21? 21, yeah. So I think, I'm trying to think who were the Ospreys Academy, so it would have been like Lewis Lloyd and people like that in the Academy at the same time. So I think they just sort of said, well, you know, we're not going to deny you this opportunity to go to Exeter. So he did, he basically did, he did the same thing as Dadjik and Chris Schinzer and various other players did. Yeah, featured heavily for Exeter University RFC. Still coaches at Leith Athletic. Still very close to the club. A theme with the likes of Hawkins and Burrows is they spend a lot, all of their free time back in Swansea or Leith. And that's what Burrows was doing. And I know from people that he was, he was happy at Exeter but really would have liked to come back to Wales. So I spent time out with a neck, with a pretty serious neck injury that kept him on the bench for a while. But yeah, I think that as a player, you've got a good one if you can stay injury free. I genuinely think there's a, he reminds me of like an Eden Phillips type player. Maybe a bit more comfortable on the ball. Really physical, really works hard. Good arrows, your fundamentals are great. Get him on form and I think that you have a good one and two at the end of the day there. Yeah, he spent a season on loan at Cornish Pirates did well by all accounts down there. Yeah, absolutely. According to Chris Kirwan for the Silver Argos, he said that Burrows is heavier and taller than every single Dragon sucker on the box. But it's not hardly the Bradley Roberts who is, but forfeited. Yeah, Elliot Lee, all the rest of them, Jumbo, Brodie Court, he is the heaviest and tallest sucker they'll have on the box. But it will mean the departure of Bradley Roberts, which is a shame because I love Bradley as you all know, but it's time to move on. And Dragons have made it clear, their recruitment policy is to sign big men. I love you Burrows. I also think that it'll help short your scrim as well. As much as I love Elliot, he's not a scrummaging hooker. And that's obvious to see when we'll talk later on. But yeah, I think that might help short your scrim. It'll certainly take pressure off, maybe not perceived to be better ability players like Chris Coleman. When you have a big luck beside you. We'll talk about that later. Lee, that is all the news I have for this week. Okie cokie, let us move on to match reviews then. Start on Friday night with Zebra versus Scarlet. Would anybody like to get any cheap shots in to start with? Anybody? Uh, right, yes. Yeah, I'll start. Can I just say, boy, Scarlet's made that look difficult. Yeah, fucking hell. Let's go to the Scarlet. Fuckin' hell, boy. James needed no invitation here, did he? It's one of those things, I'm going to regret saying that, aren't I? This is what's going in the trophy cabinet again this season. You've got the, we've got the best fans who travel away award. Are you on that forum again? No, I'm on your Twitter feed, mate. Oh, right, okay. Yeah, we've got the best fans of the year trophy. That's going to go in there. Some of it was really, really good. That's going to sit next to the we beat Zebra by the most points award out of all that. So, what was your score against Zebra, James? Remind me of your score against Zebra. Point out to me which bit of that tweet is non-factual. It's sad, is what it is. No, no, no, no, point out to me, point out to me which bit of that tweet is not true. By more than you. By more than you. Did we beat them by more than you? That's going to sit next to our fans are old and retired to their 40s. Did we beat them by more than you? Um, we've got the, uh, we've got the bet. We've got a good back row award because they played well against Zebra. Um, yeah, so no, I just, there was a lot of, um, there was a lot of, on that forum, right? My favourite thing was, and Jamie pointed out on X, that Scarlet fans had got themselves into a bit of a frenzy there. Oh, we could finish above card if you, hello. Hello, we could finish above card. That's when I won my 30 points. Yes. I want to bring the honourable gentleman back to the question. He refused to answer a few minutes ago. We beat Zebra. What the fuck are you on about? Who beat Zebra by more? Why is this in your hand? Because you were the one that brought it up to him. And you can take that to the bank. There's words that go onto the internet. You can take that to the bank. Remember how you tweeted that? Oh, that was you. So it's Catboy, isn't it? Yeah. That was Freddy. You can take that to the bank. Do you know what? He's supposed to be the sensible one. Can I put a point of order in? Scarlet's did not get the Best Travelling Fans award because that is obviously Munster. Just stop it. No. Ospreys went with a weakened team away to Zebra. Or was that Benetton? I'm not aware of that. We went to Ospreys, and that was Benetton. We had Benetton there. Yeah. Oh, well, it should have been him by more. But it's a team that we're lucky to draw. The point on Friday was, you know, it's just... And we've been saying it for a while, you just need to build a bit of confidence that the game is improving. The defence is improving slowly. Not as much as we want to, but it's improving slowly. The attack is improving slowly. We're actually starting to run and pass the fucking ball, which just wasn't happening in the... Unless you're Dan Davis. He doesn't need to, mate. He can run through brick wall. We're in one of those bits where, yeah, do you know what? I don't care if it's Zebra, it's a win. And it was an improved performance. It was a definite improved performance. It ain't perfect, and it ain't gonna be perfect for a while. But if we keep improving and keep improving, and, you know, little small steps, then everybody's gonna have to just kind of live with that until we get to that bit where it's all kind of firing again. Because, you know, there was some bits of that game that were really, really good. And there was some bits of that game that we were just shocking. You know, so I thought the back row actually worked really, really well. And I think the difference is having balance there. You know, Tupelo's had another really strong game, got through a hell of a lot of work. You know, you've got, well, I mean, Plunchy's pass is about three shots forward. Oh my God, it's horrific. It's fucking awful. It should never have stood. It should never have stood. Even the fact that it wasn't even looked at, but the touch judge was right next to it. So I thought, you know, maybe a camera angle make it look a bit wonky or maybe, and then you look at it from a different camera angle and you go, no, no, no, still, still. When you have, when you just take an edge out saying it's forward, right, you know you're fucked up. Yes, it looks forward when you're looking at it from behind the posts. When you're looking at it down the pitch, it looks forward when you're looking at it vertically. So, but you know, sometimes, sometimes you've just got to live with, you've got a little bit of luck and you've got to go with it. You know, what I was impressed with, I was impressed with 2.02. I was impressed with Eddie James and his meters beyond contact because he was literally, you know, 10, 15 meters. There was one where he had about three different sets of contact on the same run. So he's really starting to show what he can do now. Sean Evans made an impact off the bench. Yohan Lloyd isn't a 10. I'm sorry, we've tried him. Yohan Lloyd is not a 10, he's sticking with 15, but you've got Yohan Nicholas at 15 playing really well. So, you know, it's one of those things that it's, they're going to have to make hard decisions, but yeah, for me, Yohan Lloyd just isn't playing 10 the way we need to play. When Costolo came on, it was controlled. It was more, it was comfortable. I never felt, in the second half, when Costolo came on, it didn't feel like we were going to fuck anything up. I actually think a part of that was Hardy as well. I think Hardy played really well when he came on, which is a shame because obviously he's leaving and there was, I wrote the questions about why he was playing and not arching. Um, but I actually think Hardy came on, he got a bit of pace. I don't think Gareth Davies had his best game at all. Oh, that pick was just fucking shocking. But to go back to Archie and Titcom, apparently they're being kept together, playing together. They put the books on the bench. Yeah, there's just that, that's the plan. That's the plan. Keep them together, they're playing together and then they come through. This is where Dwayne is falling down, he's planning. Stop, this is how you got into this mess. When the Ospreys throw the ball about, it just goes wrong. Just play it as you think you're really good at it. Yeah. You just don't plan. The thing that no one's expecting and that's what fucks people over. So, you know, win's a win. We got the win on the board. It does mean there's a very, very unlikely chance that if Cardiff need to get no points at all on judgement day. You can't beat us. You can't beat us, they're on 30 points. Is it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The table, as far as the Welsh regions are concerned, if you want. How did you watch the game? Because you put in WhatsApp that you're only half-watching. When they were losing, when Scarlet's were losing, they text, well, I'm only half-watching. I'm only half-watching. And he's fucking texting all the time. It's funny that, isn't it? It's funny how the messages start pouring in when you start winning. I think I had about three messages in the second half. No, I was kind of distracted, but I was distracted watching the Cardiff game as well. So, yeah. You know, I watched the game on mute. That's how weird it was. It's very strange watching a game on mute. Not a bad thing if it can't be so I was going to say, depending on who the commentators are. It makes it very frustrating. I put the game on and the first five minutes, but the first five minutes in the studio was Huck and Casper discussing what shirts to wear. I thought, fuck it, we're going downhill on this. The wife said, mute it. I went happily, there you go. Even me, though, I have Osprey's fan. I watched it because I was on the train to London. So I put it on and it's, what is it? Catch your hair, Liz, or whatever it is. And then you had Huckie, who's obviously Osprey through and through, right? And then Cathy, who's obviously Cardiff for Ospreys. Yeah, who's a traitor. And I'm like, right, okay, surely they've got like some scarlet, you know, they've got to have a scarlet on co-coms. Or, you know, they'll have Gareth Reeves somewhere who's too early, boy. No, that's where that fan keeps showing up when they insult the main thing. And the first thing they did was, I have a shirt band though, because everyone's turned up with the same shirt. That's unfunny. And these lads have been pissing off Spurs. I was like, don't get me wrong, lads, lads are free publicity. But, like, talk about the Make-A-Wish kids. Like, come on. I mean, Foxy's literally doing jack shit at the moment for Scarlett. No, no. Do you know who Foxy does his media work for? Bloody Haskell. That's who he goes with, because he goes with his model. Yeah, he does. He goes in that good, bad rugby. Wait to ruin a good player for me. Anyway, let's, let's, do we want to do Osprey's dragons last? Or do you want to? That'll be last, I think. Okay. We'll talk about, I mean, I can, I can sum it up quite quickly. Go on then. Cardiff remain unbeaten against Sharks. I thought you were going to say what? If the Sharks were serious about not losing again, then maybe they should have shown Cardiff some bloody respect and actually fielded an actual team. You know, a team of people who know where the tackle line is. Mate, there was a guy on the wing who had to borrow a pair of boots off the touch judge. Yeah, that's how low down they were. Yeah, well, if that's the level of respect we're going to get shown, do you know what, fine. At least we were nice and we let them score two tries. And it was, we let them score because f***ing hell, I was conical. Well, you have to say that's a step down on last year where you nilled them up. Oh yeah, I know. Yeah, it's like, it doesn't have the same ring, you know. Do you remember when we nilled the Sharks? Do you remember when we let two easy tries in against the Sharks? It's just not the same. I mean, I thought it was a good effort. What positives do you take out the game now, Harley? Ben Thomas plays very good against second teams. As a ten. Halaholo looked the best he has all season because he's not been thrown into the 13 channel, which is always his worst of the two centre-backs anyway. Can win it despite being actually assaulted by two Sharks players, you know, managed to be excellent always. James Botham, fantastic game, three turnovers, plenty of tackles. Alan Lawrence, out of nowhere, has shown that, you know, shown some of the potential when he first sort of came along. You know, I think, I'm hoping the club sign him up properly because at the moment he's been on like a month-by-month rolling contract. So, you know, it'd be nice to get him secured down because I think he'd be a fantastic squad option. You know, because Big Mac's going to be going away quite a lot. Scrum again in South Africa has gone really well. I don't know what's going on there. Frank Murphy had Cardiff on one side of the coin and that was the one that ended up on top. It's the only thing I can answer for that one. But I'll be honest, a big thing that part of it is I'm just really disappointed by the effort from the Sharks. Like, I know it was their second 15, like 20 players left, but even still, you know, you still had like experienced operators like Chamber Botham who had absolute stinkers. You know, this was a game Sharks needed to win to get some sort of pride and the first 10 minutes when it was all Sharks, they weren't kicking at goals or anything. Then Cardiff basically out South African, the South African pack, got over red card because of a fucking piss-poor tackle. But just there's no excuse how bad it was. And the other guy should have had at least yellow. Uh, it was just shit. And even then, I still didn't believe we were going to win until the 80th minute when Frank Murphy blew the whistle. Okay, so, um, but let's be clear, Sharks are more interested in qualifying for Europe through winning. Yeah, but I mean, at the end of the day, you play in front of you. The important thing is, the important thing is, at the next season, they're not going to see that as, oh, it was only a second season. They'll say, we've got another win. You know, we didn't finish below with Scarlets, which would have been, we basically might have gone to, we should have been the club for forward if we finished below Scarlets. Because the season they've had. Somebody's going into a fight. Yeah, I know. Okay, that Sharks team was a bin juice team. And yeah, they were down to 40 men. Does it matter? No, because any winners of Africa is to be cherished. It's a tough thing. There was a lot of, um, there was a lot of, on, on that forum, but from some of the, uh, from our three friends as well, I think on the, on the Facebook group saying like, oh, why is it that Cardiff get to play the, the bin juice from South Africa? We have to play X, Y, and Z. You know, I, and I get from Scarlet's point of view, you've got, you've got the right start of the season where they're going to be playing their first team because But they weren't, because all their boxers were in. Yeah, they didn't even walk up. No, but that's also one point of view, but Scarlet fans don't like to hear facts, right? Mikey, Mikey has fought from five against South African opposition this year. I know, man. He had to get out of it. He had to get out of it. He's coming to you next, Jamie. And our worst loss against the South African side is 12 points. So, you know, I mean, we're not, we're not, we don't have a choice, man. Right, let's do, let's do us play the dragons before, Jesus Christ, I'm going to punch the screen in a minute. Let's do us play the dragons. Get your handbags out and start bitching, go on. You want me to go first, yeah? Okay, yeah, he was there. Ah, yeah, he was there, yeah. We were good for 30 minutes. So that's a positive. We were good for the first half hour. Our defence was solid. We had to soak up a lot of pressure. Want some turnover ball. And we were frustrating the Ospreys. You could feel that in the statement as well. There's reports around we were starting to get frustrated. Ospreys were trying to force things. We knew that they needed four tries for that bonus point, that it wasn't quite working. And they thought we were quite dogged in that opening half hour. So, so far, so good. And then it starts to turn dragonsy. So Aaron Wainwright picks up that yellow card. No complaints. He came in from the side. He was walled twice by Ben Bixby. Away, away, he didn't do that. So he got yellow carded, no issue with that. And then they score, of course. And then after that, an unbelievably dumb yellow card by Dane Blacker. I honestly don't know what he was thinking. Slapping the ball out the tip of his hands like that, and in an offside position, when there was absolutely no need to do it. Ospreys weren't going anywhere. They were on the halfway line. There was no need to do it. And, of course, he does that. And in fairness, it was a very well-worked try from the Ospreys. It's clearly been perfected on the trading field. Lovely offload for Morgan Morris. And then Reuben Morgan-Williams goes over the try line. And that was an absolute killer just before halftime. Because Aaron Wainwright was due to come on the field, like, seconds later. And that really did kill us. And it spoiled, actually, what was a decent first half from the Dragons. You know, if we'd held the Ospreys out, that wouldn't have been so bad. But the second half, then, we just see what we've seen from the Dragons pretty much all season. Poor discipline, compounding errors, poor execution, disintegrating scrum. Poor old Chris Coleman. I just want to put my arm around it, though. I genuinely feel sorry for the guy like Nicky Smith. Tucked into the cleaners. And I do feel sorry for him, because he's clearly not up to this standard. And it's not his fault. We've got no other options of type there. But he's so out of his depth, this level 4 bloke. But yeah, our scrum was just pretty awful, wasn't it? As it has been for most of the season. 20 penalties conceded by the Dragons, which is, well, it's just not good enough to say. Discipline's been a huge problem for us all season. You are not going to win games conceding that many penalties. And it was pretty clear that we'd gone the wrong side of the ref early in that game. Which meant that we wouldn't get any 50-50s, because we'd lost him. We just lost him for our own, you know, indiscipline. And that meant that we wouldn't get anything out to the ref. Having said that, mind, we still had opportunities to come away from that game with a bonus point. It may be even a win. You know, we left a lot of points out there. We did butcher a couple of tries. So if Lonsdale hadn't knocked on, and if Rosser's offload hadn't gone forward, that could have been a very nervy finish for the Ospreys. And we might have come away with a bonus point. But yeah, it's just really disappointing, wasn't it? It's not really good enough, you know. You've spent Dragons to be, you know, fighting to the end. And it just seems, it's the same old story, isn't it? Play well for a few minutes and then just completely collapse. But some quick shout-outs then. I thought Ewan Rosser was very good at fallback. He definitely needs to play at 15 on judgement day. He needs to keep holding the shirt. Will Reid had his best performance of the season. I thought he did very well. I have put aside him a few times for his error count. But I thought he did very well. He scored all our points. He did a very good job of scrim off, actually, when Dame Blacker went off. Chris Hollis is going to get better with more game time. You can tell that he hasn't had a lot of game time. He's not quite match sharp yet. But when he had the ball, he made some really good carries. So I was impressed with him. Remember the name, Joe Westwood. Now, how good was Joe Westwood off the bench for the Dragons? He was cutting open Ospreys at will. He was so dangerous every time he had the ball. And he's only 20 years old. And I'm really excited about the centre prospects that we got out of the Dragons. You've got Harry Ackerman. You've got Joe Westwood. And now you're knowing we've got the lad coming over from the War of the Tides as well. So I'm really excited about that. And he's got some good depth there now. But no complaints from me. The Ospreys were the better team. I think the difference was they were clinical and we wasn't. We gifted them easy points. And our discipline played our parts. They scored 12 and 8 points against 14 men. And then they scored 7 points against 13. So yeah, we made it easy for the Ospreys. I'm disappointed. But yeah, it's just the same old story for the Dragons, isn't it? Compounded errors, discipline, forced scrum. We've seen this kind of performance far too many times. So yeah, the Ospreys deserved winners, I think. Hey, James, I thought you were very well behaved there while Jamie was talking. Go on, let it all out, son. Let it all out. I agree. I couldn't actually get to watch the first half because we were taking the baby out in Brighton for the day. And so we were trying to find a pub that wasn't full to watch the first half. And we were co-hosting the feed. So I only caught like the last... I literally caught both yellow cards. And then I just can't catch the second half then. So I watched the first half back yesterday. And it's very true when a team is chased, it has a specific goal to meet in a match in terms of you have to get five points, you have to get a win. You do stupid things. So the Ospreys turned down 18 kickable points or 18 points worth of kickable pounces in the first half, right? Because they wanted to try. So they were making stupid decisions because they needed to try. You know, my local team, when we were in busy first and second for the league, we had to when we played the other team that were competing for the league with us, we basically had to make sure they left with nothing. As long as we got the win and they left with nothing. But then that activates a different mindset in your team to go out and do things you don't normally do. So when Harley says you're going out checking the ball about a bit more, it's because you're so desperate to get over the line. Because it doesn't matter about conversion. It doesn't matter about pounces. As long as you get the win and four tries, you know, I don't care if we won 20 nil because we scored, you know, four or five points, you know what I mean? So from that perspective, we made the Dragons look very good in that first half because we were just kept being shit and kept doing stupid things and things like that. And then secondly, it was by no means a vintage Osprey performance. But what it was, it was effective. And the Dragons go down to 14. We score. The Dane Blacker one, you see, right? Well, we've got the yellow card. I might as well go for the corner. And you can see Reuben, if you watch your back, you see Reuben Morgan-Williams, his eyes light up, basically, because he's like, oh, that's one of the set players who runs over. And it's very well executed. Morgan Morrisman, I think he was rugby AP, or Jared Wright highlighted on Twitter, to go for the track, if you're going to use an American football tournament, the bounce off, but then to be able to angle your body to get the offload in. That's so good. That is really, that's such an underrated skill because you're doing, you're doing two, you know, two different things to try and get through someone and get around it. So that, you know, that was a well-worked try. The Kieran Williams one is a bit contentious for a lot of people. I know Jamie and I were talking about the back and forth on it. The issue is not, because you compare it to Steph Hughes running against the Stormers, it was the Stormers, wasn't it? Yeah, it was, yeah, there's a difference. Yeah, the issue is, it's not whether it's a try or a no-try, it's the consistency around it. So you can't not give it one week and then give it the week after. For me, they're both tries. They're both, I said at the time of Steph Hughes it was a try, same with the Kieran Williams one. Yeah, it was just a very workmanlike performance. I think we clearly have a hangover from the last two games. But it's great to see Dewey Lake back. It's great to see Jack Morgan back, come out fit. Dewey Lake on his 50th, getting two tries. Dan Edwards had to do a lot of controlling of the game, which he's not had to do before. And I thought he did very well, kicked well. I thought Jack Walsh went very well from full back. He clearly identified that Dragons maybe don't push the kick hard enough. So he was running a lot from full back. I thought he ran very well. Obviously, Tom Florence has come in at the very last minute for Owen Watkin, who pulled up for personal reasons. I hope everything's okay with Owen, he got some prayers. He's clearly a specimen, but he's clearly a guy who hasn't played any rugby because of horrific injuries. And Justin Tipperick, man, he's my other one. Fuck me, the guy gets everywhere. Joe Westwood's break that Dragons put us is brilliant. But then Justin Tipperick to get back and make that last-ditch tackle on Dave Blackrick, I think it was. It's just he's 34 and he just moves like a 20-year-old. So yeah, it wasn't the best team performance, but there was some standing notes. Just listening, I'll stop there. Kieran Williams, defensive, both sides of the ball was very physical, but a lot of dominant hits. Tipperick, Nicky Smith in his last game took Chris Colman to the cleaners. I think it's very sad to see him go. You know, he has some great comments afterwards in the press conference at the booth. Morgan Morrison ran out of superlatives. I thought Reuben Williams had a good game from nine, really controlled the game well. They were just clinical, weren't they? That was the difference with yours, they were clinical. I don't think they necessarily were as well, to be fair. The whole thing of rushing out to get the full try, it's something that grips my shit with a lot of teams. A bonus point, a try bonus point is one try every 20 minutes. It's actually not, you know, it's not like you're trying to rush and get them in the last 10. You don't have to do it straight away. And I don't want to be kicking the ball when it's down, but with the Dragons, actually going that 3, 6, 9, 12 against the Dragons, they are quite mentally frail. And if you start hitting them and making these points, they are going to start, the heads are going to drop. They are going to let in stupid tries. I hope I'm not being untrue there, Jamie. There is that. And I do feel like Ospreys are a bit naive and they get away with it against teams like Cowardice and the Dragons, but I feel like sometimes they go away from what works really well for them. You know, like South Africa don't stop being South Africa just because someone said they need to go and play a Spanish rugby. Ospreys shouldn't stop being the Ospreys because they could easily get four or five tries just by being big and physical. Yeah, I get where you're saying it. They can flat-out bully. But I mean, again, it's a play on the pitch that does not count. We suffer from chronic lack of 22 entries outers, right? So the fact that what the Trades do is they recognise that the Dragons are going to keep giving away soft bounties, right? Dragons gave away 12 in the first half. So if they can maximise that, because they know if they go for the mull, Dragons are going to give away a penalty for mull, so just go for another one. When you're suffering, and Dragons and Ospreys both had the same amount of 22 entries. But one of them came with 26 points, one of them came away with 13, and two of them, I think, were kicked outside. So I get what you're saying, but we clearly just wanted to maximise what we were doing with the 22 rather than going out and chasing them. So yeah, I thought Ben Bricksby was good as well. For his second ever URC game, I've got to give him kudos. I thought he got the big calls right. No ref is ever going to get the 50-50s right all the time, but I think the main calls, i.e. the yellow cards, he got spot on. Yeah, I've got to change my opinion, because I know in the group chat I was quite critical of him. But when I watched the game back, like you said, he got all the big calls right. He actually had a decent game. It's always different when you're there in the stadium. Oh yeah, Ospreys were straightened offside a few times. I agree. Yeah, they were straightened offside a few times, but they weren't from the rugby line-ups, but yeah, I know that, but still. It's little things like that, but yeah. They are changing one of the line-up laws now, aren't they? The one thing we haven't discussed in the last two weeks of news is that World Rugby are changing the monkey line-ups rule. Yeah, so if a team doesn't compete, there's a matter if it's not straight. So Ryan Elias, 100% line-out accuracy for the breadth of his career. Oh, boys, we've got all seven. Does everyone just throw someone in the air? That's for another time, mate. That's for another time. Right, let's really, really... There is one last thing, one last thing. Congratulations to the Ospreys, you've wrapped up the Welsh youth. Come on! Cannot be unthinking. You now have a part-time hotel hubcap. Speaking of Welsh competitions, inter-Welsh competitions, let's have a look at this very, very, very, very quickly. Yes, very, very quickly. I suppose he shares this one on the one week where he has... I mean, we might as well skip ahead. I did shit. But Lee was top predictor for all three games this weekend, which just proves even a broken cock is right twice a day. And he only watched about 20 minutes of one game. I wouldn't go that far. One of the games, he was still off by 20-odd points. And I still came top. So where are we, Harley? So you're top there on... Yeah, I'm top 174. Jamie has managed to close up the gap a bit because I've had an absolute shocker. So he's on 165. Lee has now jumped up into third place with 135, and he's making me sick by moving the screen constantly. And then James is the last 131. But I said, there's only four points in it. So I mean, that could change after Judgment Day. Yeah, eight points. And I feel like we make Judgment Day worth double because there's only two games. Oh, that throws a hole. And Jamie could overtake you. Yeah. Oh, that's... Let's do it. Let's do it. Oh, God, Jamie's woken up all of a sudden. Jamie's like, right, okay, let's have a... Let's make it fun. Why not? Let's put some real money on it. Right. Gents, is there anything particularly exciting happening on pods this week? All I've got on Scarlett's pods is talking about the Drovers and what have you. Anybody got any special interviews lined up? Harley's not allowed to say because he still doesn't know if he's still got that. A really, really exciting, interesting one to line up. But if it's not this week, it'll be next week, won't it? I haven't messaged around to say anything, so... He'll probably be some good player or another. Yeah. Well, we might just, after the last time we played Cardiff at the Cardiff City Stadium. Surely you've got to do that for the next week. If we need something to do this week. Right. Thank you very much for your time tonight. If anybody is interested, go right back to what we spoke about at the start. We do. We are going to be launching a... SRC. SRC. Thank you. Podcast. So that is taking shape. We're test running that this week and hopefully we'll have that up and running through the summer with some summer specials. If you do want to give us a follow on Twitter, that's the best way to start with. Other than that, gents, thank you very much for your time this evening. It's been a pleasure, as always. Just need me to say, enjoy your rugby. I shall see you again next week. All the best. Take care, everybody. Goodbye. Thank you for listening to The Wrap Podcast. We hope you enjoyed listening as much as we enjoyed recording it. Please do rate us and tell your friends. It really helps us to grow and get better. We'll be back next week with more of the same. And until then, enjoy your rugby.