WRRAP - An Ospreys cup win

The WRAP podcast discusses recent news and signings in Welsh regional rugby. They talk about the Ospreys signing players and the controversy surrounding players wearing new jerseys before leaving their current clubs. The Scarletts also have news, including a new contract for prop Harry O'Connor and rumors of Exeter lock Jack Dunn joining the team. They also discuss the social media presence of the Ospreys and Cardiff. Welcome to the WRAP podcast, the place to catch up on all the regional and national rugby in Wales. You can find us on all the usual social media platforms and message us through there if you want, or you can email us at welshregionalrugbypod at gmail.com. With all the boring stuff out of the way, let's talk rugby. Hello and welcome to this week's edition of the WRAP podcast. I'm Jamie, hope you're all doing well. Joining me this week is Dr. Harley Worthy. Good evening, Harley. Good evening. That's weird using my title. Yeah, I try to be professional. I'm the host tonight, so I'm going to try and make this as professional as I possibly can. We don't normally do professional, do we? But I'm hosting, so it's going to be a lot more professional, he says. And we have a very happy James Rees with us. Good evening, James. How are we? I'm very well, thank you. Good, good. Now, Lee is not with us this week, unfortunately, but we have what I consider to be an upgrade, or not, depending on your point of view. A voice that will be recognisable to listeners of Scarlet's Fever and the Pirate Rugby podcast is Mr. Hugh Griffin. Good evening, Hugh. How are we doing? Good evening, and let me just explain why George North isn't a censor, right? The perfect place for food, isn't it? Are you going to start talking about drums? I've got some great stories from the 80s. There's going to be some great drum tracks. If we could not talk about George North or drums, that would be great. Okay, so drink of the week, well, it's only Harley. He's only got an alcoholic drink tonight. Harley, do you want to quickly just tell us what you've got? And then we'll move on. I've had it before. It's Butty Bach. I mean, I ran into the co-op thinking, oh, bugger, I haven't got a drink of the week, and I'd best go get one, and then no one else bothered. I've got something. Oh, what have you got? So I've been drinking a lot of Guinness lately, so I thought I'd invest in one of these. Has anyone got one of these, the Nitrous Surges? I haven't got one. Oh, have you heard about them? Are they any good? I'm 50-50. So it's better than a normal pint of Guinness, but it is a bit of a fuss. You talk about wanky bollocks, right? It's a Guinness, right? There's no wanky bollocks about that. This is the instructions. This is for pouring a pint of Guinness for audio listeners. I'm holding up a really long piece of paper that comes in it. It's about the length of you. And you have to follow that, and it says you have to pour it, and it's really specific. You have to hold the glass at a certain angle and then tilt it and end up at a certain angle, and then you fill it three-quarters full and you leave it to stand for 60 seconds. So you just imagine you've got friends around. Do you want a pint? Do you want a pint? Yeah, all right. Okay. Turn it on. Press the button. Wait for it to warm up. Pour it out. Three-quarters. Phew, where's my pint? It's got to stand for a minute. And you leave it, and then you get it. So it is better than the normal Guinness. Is it worth the faff? You also have to buy special cans for it. I'm not sold yet, but... Sounds too technical for my liking. You're talking about that, but that's how you're supposed to pour a Guinness. How are you supposed to pour a draft Guinness? It's from a can, though, man. It's still from a can. The whole idea is to get rid of it. They have this weird little vibrating thing, so you put a little bit of water in, and that will sort of surge and make the pint settle properly. It comes with a brush. You can see all the kind of paraphernalia it comes with. It comes with a brush, and it says you're supposed to brush it before and after each use. It's a faff. Yeah, it sounds like a bit of a faff. I'm not drinking tonight because I'm full up with cold, and I have been since Friday, just not in the mood for a drink. So what I have got is a can of Cherry 7-Up, which is really refreshing and nice, but it's not a beer. But I'm quite proud of that choice, though, because it is a very refreshing drink. James, you're not drinking, are you? Because... I completely forgot, and I'm at my own loss, unexpectedly. Yeah, I just haven't got a drink. I didn't actually drink this weekend, believe it or not. We won our league this weekend, my rugby team. We secured the championship. Well done. Congratulations. It was a long old game, and it was an away game. So we got back to the club, and I sort of had one beer. And I looked at the time, and I was like, I really want to get home for the Ospreys game. Because let's be fair, they're not showing S4C in a rugby club in the south of England. So I thought, you know, despite our club president being Welsh, he's having too good a time. So I went home, picked up my traditional fish and chips while watching the Ospreys, and sort of looked at the beer shelf. I just didn't drink. Yeah, I'm trying not to drink before the baby comes, but now I'm going to King's home on Friday. So many ciders will be consumed. Yeah, quite right, too. I honestly thought that if Ospreys finally won in a knockout game, you would have gone on the lash, personally, but no? No, because that would be like drinking to get it, and I don't want to forget the fact that we won. Okay, fair enough, fair enough. Right, let's move on to the news desk, and we've got loads of news to get through. So, let's start at the Ospreys then. So, 24-year-old fly-off slash full-back, Jack Walsh, he signed a new deal. Ospreys have now also confirmed a signing of Phil Cognosia from Leicester. I know you've already spoken about that, but that was confirmed just last week. And they've also signed Stefan Thomas, not the Wales Online journalist, the prop from the Scarlets. Stefan Thomas is, of course, cousins with Gareth Thomas at the Ospreys, which I didn't know until last week. I didn't know that until last week. What are your thoughts on that, James? Stefan Thomas from Scarlets, good signing? Yeah, with front rows, it's generally more of a Duncan Jones signing than a Toby Booth one, by all accounts. And if I'm thinking back on the front rows that we signed, permanently, they don't sign front rows unless they see something that will aid what's already a big weapon. A big part of Thomas Francis wanting to come to the Ospreys over Cardiff, Dragons or Scarlets, is he wanted to work with Duncan Jones. Basically, they met, and Duncan said, you're a terrible scrummager, or you're not to the standard where I think you can be. And Thomas Francis, he was taken aback by that, and it sort of motivated him. They wouldn't pick him up if they didn't see something in him. He's going to be inexpensive, around all season, bar injury, he's not in danger of a Wales call-up. Yeah, so I'm... That was James laying the groundwork for when he does get picked for Wales. He can say, oh, Duncan Jones... He's going to be a 2025 lion. No, I think it's absolutely fine signing. And I was surprised at how little he's paid for Scarlets. That's interesting. Lee was not happy with the signing video of him in an Ospreys kit. He was not happy about that. How do we feel about that, by the way? Are we okay with that? About them signing when they're still with their clubs? I know there was a big hoo-ha when Dennis Genge did it, wasn't there, you know? But how do you feel about that? I'll let Scarlet's fans talk about it. Catboy, what did you think of that? It's offside for me. It is, it is. I think there should be an unwritten rule. I don't even think it should... I think a written statement, text only, on social media, and that's it. I wouldn't pose with a jersey. I certainly wouldn't wear a full kit in the Ospreys changing room. He didn't even clean his boots, the dirty fucker. He's probably had a training session with you already. I said in the group chat, I said, do you reckon he wore the kit in on Monday to the Scarlets? Sorry lads, my kit was underwashed. My kit was underwashed. At least it's not a fucking blood transfusion video, because that is still the most heinous thing they've ever announced mid-season. But I think that's your boothy point about trying to bring families together and get that family culture in there. Kieran Hardy and Luke Davis, yeah. It's cousins who also play the same position. Yeah. If we're signing Joe Cocker's thing on a one-year contract and making him centre at the end of his career, I'm telling you, it's happening. Yeah, maybe, we'll see. I was just about to say, I don't think anything will ever beat that blood transfusion Ospreys, Scarfhats. That was a different management, different... Hey, we've made up for it now. That Crocodile Dundee one the other day was hilarious, with Jet Walsh. And the Twin Town one, nothing will top that. Nothing will top the Harry Dearest Twin Town one. They've upped their game, haven't they, the Ospreys, on the social media side. It has been noted. They've got a completely new team. They've literally had a new social media admin start last week as well. Ah, right. They've got a completely new team. They've had a new social media admin start last week as well. Ah, right. Okay. But the actual guy who does the, who's head of the, like, I'd put the staff, he's really good. And Besson, who's head of marketing in general, who's Robbie's close personal friend, they're really, it's a young team. And you can see that by the content they put out. My favourite socials admin is the Cardiff fan, who sometimes gets hold of the Cardiff account. Me and you, favourite. Starts doing really unprofessional tweets. I'm already digging three accounts as it is. It's more fun than just too much to be serious on. Ah, dear. Okay, so that's the Ospreys. Let's move on to the Scarletts. A lot of news for the Scarletts. A lot of transfer rumours. So let's get into it. So take that prop, Harry O'Connor, he signed a new Scarletts contract. And in the rugby transfer rumours, this is from Rugby Pass, Exeter lock Jack Dunn is on his way to the Scarletts. And they've also reported the Scarletts have been offered the chance to sign three props from the Lions. So it's brothers, Ruan and J.P. Smith, along with Ruan Drea. Should point out the Smith brothers are 34 years old and Ruan Drea is 33, so they know spring chickens. And then Wales Online are reporting that the Scarletts are set to sign Scotland prop, Alec Hepburn, from Exeter Chiefs, in what was described as, and I quote, a major transfer group. I think that's some seriously heavy lifting going on there, major transfer group. But anyway. Does it say the word English Giants anywhere in the article? No, it doesn't say highly rated either. All powerful. All powerful. But also Australian second row, Max Douglas, no mean either. He's being signed from Japanese outfit, Yokohama Cannon Eagles. So, yeah, a lot of transfer rumours coming out to the Scarletts. Huw, do any of those names excite you at all? That you're being linked with? It's very, so we're going to do a transfer deep dive on Scarlett Seaver tonight. It's very difficult to say whether a signing is good or not until we know who's leaving. So apparently we've already signed two non-Welsh qualified locks in Jack Dunne and Max Douglas. We've already got two non-Welsh qualified locks starting for us every week in the second row and a third one starting at number eight. And then also Tane Plumtree, who is Welsh qualified, but isn't exactly homegrown. Which is fine. I don't have a problem with having non-Welsh qualified players, but having arguably six non-Welsh qualified locks at the Scarletts at once is odd. So it suggests that a couple are leaving, but then there's rumours going around that the two Tongan boys are saying, and I can't believe that Alex Craig is leaving unless he's been signed by Toulouse, obviously. Or Leinster. I don't know. And the Alec Hepburn one as well. He could be a great player and fantastic. If you're going to sign non-Welsh qualified players, why sign current internationals for other Northern Hemisphere teams? Because it's basically the same as signing a Welsh qualified player in terms of availability. So, yeah, all these players are great. And it's kind of in this trend with the Scarletts, because you remember last summer where everyone was worried about all the regions going bust. And we made like Tane Plumtree and Eoin Lloyd and et cetera, et cetera, a load of signings. And then we've made three in-season signings of Edwin Swartz. No, he hasn't joined us yet. He's for next season. Oh, right. OK. Jared Taylor. Yes, he exists. And Joe Jones. Joe Jones. Oh, dear. Wheelgriff John Markey. Yeah. On the Lions props. So the reason that the Lions are looking to offload props is because the Curry Cup and the URC no longer clash, so they don't need as big a squad. So for people who don't know the hierarchy in South Africa, right, South African teams get their best players taken by foreign clubs. The Lions get their best players taken by other South African teams. That's how no money they've got. So when the Lions are ringing you up and saying, do you fancy a prop? We'll give you any one. It's not a good sign. If I do, if I did want to get a prop from the Lions, it would be Slava Kanye because he's duo vibes and he weighs 158 kilograms. And he's definitely been called that by Gatlin. Yeah. But are these timings any good? I'm more interested in who's leaving. Because if you actually write down our squad on paper, we are about four deep in every position. And there is some players you would be shocked that still pick up a paycheck from the Scarletts every month. Hmm. I'd be surprised if they're going to keep both Lovesea and say Fafista. Well, that's what I mean, because if the budgets are going down, those guys are not going to be cheap if they sign new deals, are they? They're going to take up a fair chunk of the playing budget. So do you think both will stay then, Huw? Is that what you're hearing? The rumors from the usual places are suggesting that both are staying, even though it was also heavily rumored just a few months ago that Lovesea was already gone. He hasn't come back. Of course, I'd love to keep both. They're both incredible players, especially Fafista. But I've got no doubt that he's got his pick of clubs that he could go to, because he is probably the best player currently playing in Wales. Like, he's ridiculous. But, yeah, I would love to keep them. But I would be surprised. But like I say, all of the budgets are going down, and for all the loss that we posted last week and things, all of the news coming out of the Scarletts is about how much money we're spending. So it's just a confusing one. With that, though, Steph, as I was pointing this out on Twitter, is that every rugby club is in debt, right, and hosts debt every year. It only matters if that debt isn't serviceable. So all you're doing, if you're splashing this cash, it just means that you are definitely losing players who are on a lot more money. So Scott Williams, you know, you just haven't. Ospreay's in that position because we've already announced that George North and Nicky Smith are going. So immediately people are like, well, that frees up money in the budget. I just have to mention one thing on that. When you signed Phil Cochran as singer and Lance Bradley tweeted, yeah, players going from England to Wales, we do it differently here. I'm like, sorry, the Nicky Smith news was last week, Lance. We have memories. Also, you've got to forget, Ewan Lloyd signed from England to Wales. Was he living in Bristol, though? I reckon he was with the Gets, though. Ewan Lloyd. I'll say that. One of those three samples at Gloucester, he's still living with his brother in Cardiff. Gloucester might as well play in the URC next season because apparently every Welsh player is going to Gloucester. They could technically have a full Welsh back, right? Yeah, Gloucester Welsh RFC. Nicky Robinson does not travel far for his agency work. Okay, so that's the Scarlets. Moving on then to the Dragons. So all last week, the Dragons announced their next generation sign-ins. So these were young players that were given new deals by the club, and those players were Harry Ackerman, Joe Westwood, Shea Hope, Morgan Lloyd, Olly Andrew, Ewan Rossett, Sam Scarfe and Ryan Woodman. Yeah, really good news for the Dragons supporters, because as I said on Twitter, good recruitment is vital for any club, and it's just as important to keep your young, home-grown talent as well, because we've lost far too much of that to English clubs. So it's really important that all the regions keep hold of their home-grown young talent. And there's some very talented players in there. You know, Harry Ackerman and Ryan Woodman I think will go on to really big things. And we know that Shea Hope and Morgan Lloyd and Olly Andrew have been tearing it up in the Welsh Premiership. It's just whether they can make the next step up now to the URC. So, yeah, you know, it's pleasing and encouraging to see us keep hold of our home-grown talent. And in surprising news today, there's two bits of surprising news. The first bit of surprising news was that Dragons and Argentina scrum-off. Gonzalo Bertoni was joined Cardiff on loan until the end of the season. I didn't see that one coming. What about you, Harley? That's a good pick-up for you, isn't it? How do you feel about that? I mean, it's good to have an extra scrum-off, as we were starting to look quite… …with letting Jamie Hill go to the Sheep Shield, which again came out after the pod last week. He's left with immediate effect. It was basically Ellis Bevan and James' favourite Ex-Hospice scrum-off. Which is who? That Aubrey. We won't say any more about that. Just because I don't want… because James already has all the Scrooge's Lawyers on retainer as it is. That's good. Dragons fans are not happy about this. I've been on the forums. They're like, why are we letting him go to Cardiff? What's going on? And it's like, he started… well, he actually played two games for Dragons this season. He's had a lot of injuries since the World Cup. Also, he has started twice for Dragons in the past two years. We've barely seen the guy. You know, so it's like, well… We're stacked for scrum halves. Why not let him go? I mean, I think it's the fact he's gone to Cardiff that's pissed a lot of fans off. And actually, I may download the third player you've had for us all along. Who's this? Max Clarke? Josh? Yeah, this season or so. Josh Reynolds, Max Clarke and Gonzalo Bertronello. So this is the third Dragons player. Lewis Jones? Oh, thanks a bunch, yeah. We should be really appreciative of that, shouldn't we? What's wrong with Matthew Scrooge? Ah, he's alright, I suppose. Don't get me started on Lewis Jones, though. Right, OK. Move on. Can I say something very quickly? What? If there isn't a chance in the tune of J-Ho to J-Hope's name in the next year, you might as well release him. Because that is the biggest missed opportunity in Dragons history. I said, the kind of booze brother goes in the corner with the drums. They take you all over that straight away. Don't mention drums. OK. No drums. Drums talk is banned on this pod. Right, so in the other bit of surprising news that broke today, Monday afternoon, Dragons centre Jack Dixon, he's retired from rugby at the age of 29. His decision to quit the sport after 13 years is not injury-related. Dixon said, Rugby and the Dragons has been a huge part of my life since I was 16 years old, but I feel it's the right time to step away, move on and start the next chapter of my life. Dixon became the youngest player to play Welsh regional rugby when he came off a bench in an LV Cup match at Wasps in October 2011, aged just 16 years, 313 days. And he broke the record set by teammate Hallamay Moss just 33 minutes earlier when he had started the same game. He made 172 appearances for the Men of Gwent over 13 seasons, and he currently stands sixth in the club's all-time appearance list. I actually think it's a bit sad, to be honest, because Dixon's been a great servant for the Dragons. I think we'll miss his physicality and his grunt in the centre. I did hear rumours that Dixon was considering giving up the game. I just don't think he's happy with rugby anymore. I just think he wants a career without it. I think he's fallen out of love with the game, which does happen, I suppose, but it's a big shame. It feels like he's been around forever, doesn't it? I'm making his debut at 16, so I wish him all the very best in whatever he does next. A very These Streets Won't Forget player. Yeah. I've got a lot of time for Jack Dixon. He wasn't at national standard, but he was a very solid club player, and every team needs that. That solid club role with Dixon was certainly that. That record is such a Welsh rugby thing. It is, isn't it? We went through last week on the irie. We looked at the 2006 Heineken Cup, and Scarlett held the record for the most amount of match points in the competition since that bonus point was introduced, only for it to be broken two hours later by Beer Ritz. It is fairly Welsh rugby. And now they have a completely new record, which I'm sure they don't want to talk about. Yeah, but at least we're not Beer Ritz. Have you seen about them? They're in the prodigy that has been bought for €1 by a former player. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so moving on then. Other news that broke today. TV Rights. So all 21 matches in this year's Autumn Nation Series are going to be shown on TNT Sports after the broadcaster won the rights. Matches are also going to be shown on his sister platform, Discovery+, and the rights deal covers the UK and Ireland. Now, as of yet, there's no news on whether S4C are going to pick up the Welsh language rights, so we have to wait and see on that. But I'm just wondering, so what do we think of this then? Is this a good move? Do we like TNT's rugby coverage? How do we feel about all the autumn tests moving from Amazon to TNT? I'll break it into a couple of questions. So I think it's great because I already have TNT, so I'm not paying for another service. Same. No, I don't like the coverage. And same. The closer we get to a single platform, the better. Because that's something I think we've all been hanging on to. It's actually just having one place to go and you're not managing multiple subscriptions. So we're saying, oh, well, it was £8 a month for Amazon. It's £30 a month now for BT. Yeah, but it's £30 for BT. And, you know, for some people it's £30 a month and £8 a month. Plus, I don't know, I think I pay sort of £90 for the year for going to plays, coverage, soon to be Premier Sports next week. You know, and it just all sort of starts stacking and stacking and stacking. So actually, I quite happily pay £30 a month to have most of the rugby I watch on my channel. It does suggest, though, that they're looking back to, you know, it looks like TNT might be a forerunner into buying up all the competitions. The only problem is that does mean more Ofsted and Healy. Yeah, that's it, doesn't it? That's the problem, yeah. Ofsted and Healy's great when he's actually doing what his job is, which is to analyse attacking patterns. And, you know, when he starts talking about, like, stroke plays, it's really insightful. But I can't be dealing with any more ref chat. I get enough of that from me. So I was thinking today, like, no, I don't like TNT either. But I don't really like anybody's rugby coverage, to be fair. The only one that I do like is S4C, and I don't speak Welsh. So I mostly like it because I don't know what they're on about. Like via plays, some of the pundits that via play get on, not naming any names, Shane Williams, Tom Shanklin, just really not a fun listen. So I guess it's kind of like a zero-sum game in terms of quality. It's just I don't have a TNT subscription. I've got Sky for the Formula One, the football, and Super Rugby. So adding this on as well, it's a proper... I'm properly going to have to think about how I manage it. I might have to cancel Sky for the autumn and then get TNT. Also, iCast, so iChromecast stuff from my phone is how I watch all of my content, so I don't have proper channels on the telly. And the Discovery Plus app was abysmal. It is the worst one I've ever used, including the Premier Sports Players. Remember that. Will we be seeing it again? I delighted the day that I deleted the Discovery Plus app off my phone. Also, unlike Amazon, where there's other good stuff on there to have it with, I'd have flicked through like Discovery Plus. There's nothing really good on there, in my opinion. So, I mean, you say the same for via play, but via play is a lot cheaper. Well, no, you haven't listened to our Scandinavian film recommendations. Oh, that's true, that's true. And also, via play as well has the top 14. Can't be missing out on that. But I'm not happy, but I do think that S4C probably will retain the Welsh language rights, though. That's my gut feel. I think there's a thing in the Senedd Charter that says that they have to have live sports available in Welsh commentary, which is why Amazon did the cheeky thing and went, oh, we'll just hire two books to chat via commentary in Welsh, and then we don't have to share the rights. James, your thoughts? I remember sending this rumour to you guys in the rap chat, and you were like, it might just be the England games. And I was like, no, it's definitely going to be all of them, because it's a bad idea. I agree that rugby needs money, right? And this is clearly a big money deal. Whether we actually see any said money is another thing. I don't mind it being centralised, right? I have no issue with that. It's my issues with the quality of commentary and the quality of what we're presenting to the public. I remember when Sky Sports had the Pro 12 and Pro 14 and various other things. They did some good stuff, Sky Sports with the Lions. When it was centralised, it generally had some really good stuff. In the early days of BT, they had a proper Rugby Tonight show, and it was really good. When Scrum 5 was at its best, it was a genuinely good show. And that was when SLC were showing Glasgow versus Leinster, because it was the semi-final of the Pro 12 that year. So when stuff is centralised, I think quality can improve. It's just with the quality of punditry and commentary on TNT at the minute, it's so poor. They are not going to have a clue when Ireland or Wales play each other. None of the TNT pundits regularly watch URC rugby. Sam Warburton and Brian O'Driscoll don't watch the URC. Sam Warburton is a board member at Cardiff. Last night you were talking about none of the URC teams go away to South Africa and win. You're literally on the board for a team that did it, you dick. That's the thing. This is the level we're working with. I was really glad at the start of the season to see Sarah Elgin become a freelance, because she's been popping up on Scrum 5 and everywhere else. She's great as a headline presenter. The level of punditry around it needs to be so much better. Amazon, in all fairness, did it without agendas against referees and all this crap. They genuinely had a good product. They enjoyed it. They did. They hired Gabby Logan, which is always going to be a win. Yeah, hired Gabby Logan. You get someone like Lauren Jenkins involved. I have no issue with it being centralised. That's where we're heading, to a subscription-based, centralised model. We all know this. That's fair enough. I like the Amazon's coverage. I agree with you. I do. This is why I'm concerned for TNT. You're saying, I'm concerned it's going to be too England-centric for the reasons you've already mentioned. At the weekend, the biggest game of the weekend was Stormer's La Rochelle. Hands down the biggest game. Didn't have any pre-match build-up at all. Just started when the kick-off went. I missed recording it because it didn't show up on the normal channels. It didn't flash up. Is that because, though, it's a South Africa TV rights thing? Don't say it. Because the challenge... I know it's a challenge, Cap, but the Shark-Zebra game wasn't even on Viaplay. I think it's just that transcript that's such a hodgepodge. If there's a local broadcaster who pick it up... So, like, the Ospreys was on S4C, so they didn't put it on Viaplay, whereas the URC, it's on both. I'm just not sure what the actual broadcast is. Just check up everything that isn't covered. And even then, I think the Benetton game was still on EPCR TV. Yeah, it was, and that's mad. That was a big game. I think they're only keeping the... I think Viaplay only had the ones involving a French team. That didn't have another broadcaster. So, I think... Was it Benetton... Benetton versus the Lions, Tove versus Connacht. So, I don't know if that was the case, but Hiri's actually right. Nowadays, we're getting, like, five minutes. Even on URC games on Viaplay, you get five minutes pre-match. To be fair, I don't watch pre-match stuff, personally. I've even come up with activities to do that take ten minutes at half-time. I don't watch any of that. I just watch the actual game. That's absolutely fine, but you've got to have the opportunity for people to watch it and to enjoy it. That's how you grow the game, more than someone just watching eight matches of rugby, where, in fact, they can watch eight pre-match and half-time build-up of an actual, genuine analysis, where they learn about patterns of play, defensive structures, laws of the game, not Carl Dixon is a complete and utter twat and missed this, or Andrea Piardi is bald and can't referee a game properly. But that's what it is. I do not want to hear Laurence Delaglio talking about Sormers versus La Rochelle. That's true. I don't want to hear him talking about anything, to be honest. Did you see when Sarri's got absolutely destroyed by Bordeaux for the second time this year, he said, oh, it's because Bordeaux are a super club and Sarri's can't compete with them financially. And it's like, oh, how they might be a problem. No sympathy there. No, you're right. No, TV coverage has got to improve. And I'm still annoyed that I paid seven quid to watch Zebra versus Dragons on bloody EPCR TV. And, of course, the Dragons lost. And I tell you what, I will not be doing it next season. I can tell you that now. It will not be making that mistake again. Right. Oh, my dear. I can top that. I can top that. I once got a coach back from London to Swansea and decided to pay, like, £5.99 for Gloucester versus Sarri's on a Friday night. It was fucking awful. It was genuinely terrible. Yeah. It's not great, is it? Like I said, I won't be doing it again next season. Like, I don't care. I will not be paying extra to watch the Dragons on the streaming service. Right. Okay. The only bit of news I got left is Clare Duvery, they beat Werther at 20 points to 18 to win the Premiership Cup at the Principality Stadium. Did you watch this one, Huw? I think I was multitasking. I had it on. The pitch looked horrible because they had not watered the pitch. Yeah. I never played three games on it that day. But they hadn't even scrubbed the Guinness logo off it from the Six Nations. It wasn't a great game. And I don't know about Clare Duvery because they obviously got beat by Newport the other week. They had... Why are you giving a thumbs up, Harley? You're not a Newport fan. We're not talking about the Queen's medal, right? So, yeah. It was a bit... It was a bit of a controversial one at the end because there was a high tackle but before the high tackle, the player had stepped into touch but they didn't go back for it, which I'm kind of okay with. It wasn't a great game and it wasn't Clare Duvery's best performance by any means, but for me, they are clearly... Well, the record speaks for itself. I think they are the best team in the Premiership, so they probably deserve to win the Cup. I think they're absolutely deserving winners. But you would have expected it to be more comfortable, to be honest, based on the season so far. Our play does supersede everything. We just have to point out the foot in the touch wouldn't have mattered. And that's not to say the first time that made the player has done it because he did it against Newport earlier in the season, if you remember. I think I said it to you, actually. Yeah, I don't mind catching the odd Welsh Prem match on a Thursday night. It's a good watch most of the time. I said Landover v Newport was actually really good for 60 minutes. Yeah. Enjoyed that one. Yep. Right then, okay. Let's move on. Shall we talk about what happened on the weekend? History was made. Ospreys, they're history makers. They finally won a European knockout game. Yep, that's right. The Ospreys sealed their place in the Challenge Cup quarter-finals with a 23-15 victory over Sails Sharks at the Bruby Field in Bridgend. Which means now, on Friday night, the Ospreys will travel to King's Home to take on Gloucester for a place in the semi-finals. Come on then, James. Tell us all about it. Your thoughts on that historic win. Let's get out of the way first. Let's get out of the way first. Yes, they'll put their B team... Yeah, I don't know. So there's varying reports that Sail were absolutely fuming when they turned up at the changing room situation. Good. But don't have a leg to stand on because they didn't send a representative down prior to kick-off, like, in the week before to inspect facilities. So they can't lodge a formal complaint. They can't veto it though, can they? They can't say, no, we're not playing it. They can't. What normally happens is they just come down to look at what they can bring down in terms of facilities. And like, right, so we can bring... Do we need to bring more physio tables or are there physio tables? Stuff like that. Practical things. So yeah, Sail brought their B team down. They made 11 changes. But again, as I keep pointing out to people, that's not the Ospreys fault. The Ospreys can only play what's in front of them. Exactly, yeah. And that's a bloody good B team if I've ever seen one. There's some good players in there. Yeah, it was... Probably one of the most vintage games, back and forth, very physical, as we knew it would be. With Sail, they like to play the game around a lot. I thought... we weathered the storm very well early on. Obviously, we went... Is it actually raining? I thought our back row were immense. Harvey Deves. How good is Harvey Deves? Oh, he's just such a... What a player. But as Hugh said to me in a message, and he's smiling because he knows I'm about to say it, is I trust him with my life on a rugby pitch. But if it was a test, the 11 plus, not so much. When he speaks, he is like, you all right? But in a good way. My mum texts me. He's just so rugby, and all he cares about is rugby. My mum texts me, have they just picked this man up from the local police station after a night out? He's just... I love him so much. Can I just ask... Can I just ask a quick question about Harvey Deves? Is it true he hates Tories? Yes. Right, so... That's a good question. He hates Tories. He hates Tories. When he first rose to fame, or when he first gained prominence, he was playing in a very poor under-20s team. And he had a really, really good game. And I was like, ooh, this Harvey Deves fella's quite good. And it turns out he was Osprey. And I had no prior... Bridgend College. So I looked at his Twitter, and he's just retweeting loads of anti-Tory stuff. Just blatantly anti-Tory stuff. And I was like, Just blatantly anti-Tory stuff. And every now and then, he'll pop up, like, quote-tweeting, like a politics tweet. And it's just blatantly anti... And he's so upfront about it. So immediately, it was like, me, Josh Gardner, Robbie Owen. I was like, this is my favourite person ever. Have you ever been on Rio Dias' Twitter? Yeah. That's a good laugh. It's just that, yeah, he hates Tories, and just loves playing on grass. He loves rugby. I love him even more than that. That segment about playing on grass on Saturday night was just wonderful. It just brought a tear to an old man's heart. So yeah, back row were immense. I thought Reuben Morgan-Williams controlled the game very, very, very, very well. He's... Now Thomas is injured, he is Wales' most consistent man in the club rugby, I'd say. Form-wise. Because he's played the most, I'd imagine. He was... I'm trying to remember his spreadsheet. Can I shout at you that I haven't done any analysis on Reuben Morgan-Williams? Well... No, you don't need to. He's amazing. You need to. You don't even get picked for Wales. No, that's true. No, he's just a, you know, really good. Scrum was great. But after a poker for jaw, who's a fantastic prospect, you know, demolished Wales and the 26 nations got taught a bit of a lesson by Gareth Thomas. Same thing happened to him, though, down in Cape Town. Yeah, it happened in Northampton as well. Maybe 19-year-olds shouldn't be scrummaging against fully grown men. True. Yeah, I just... I can't... I was just too... I have not watched the game back. I've barely watched the highlights because I'm just remembering how good a feeling it was. And I don't care about the attendance. I don't care about the... I was going to ask you about that. I'm really sorry, but I was going to ask because the only reason I bring it up... So, the official attendance was 4,225. Now, what I would say was I was shocked by that because watching on television, it looked more than that. So, I'm just going to ask you, how disappointing... If there is an accurate figure, which knows what was announced, how disappointing is that? Because it is the capacity venue. It's the 8K capacity venue. You say it's an 8K capacity venue. 8K capacity in that is if you're in the shed, in the cow shed, you are elbow to elbow. You cannot move with someone. That's like... From what I could gather, speaking to people who were in the shed, it was full, but you had just enough... You had room to sort of turn around, if that makes sense. So, I spoke to Lance. 4,225 was the official ticket sold. Originally, the plan... The plan was always to take it to Bridgend. Originally, they wanted to do what Cardiff did a couple of weeks ago, a month ago with the junior clubs, and they were going to make it a big junior club event. But they got shafted with an 8pm kick-off, which is really tough if you want to get younger kids to a game like that. What I will say is, I can't find the official Cardiff attendance anywhere. They're saying 8K for that. Oh, you've got the Cardiff attendance. Yeah, I've got them all. I track attendances because they are, in my opinion, the most lied-about thing in rugby. Yeah, we all know your opinion on Cardiff rugby's attendances. No, it's not that. There are some very well-known and very prominent Twitter accounts and personalities who tweet big lies about attendances quite regularly. So, I like to keep track on it. So, I messaged you, didn't I, James, when that 4,200 came out, and I said, this is the official attendance. It doesn't look right. By all accounts, it did. I hear the thing about the kids getting in, but at the same time, I'm not sure that for a European knockout game, should you be relying on kids to boost up the numbers? No, it's not necessarily about boosting attendance figures. It was about what they wanted to do in terms of the whole Brewery Fest thing. They wanted to make it this family festival type affair, and by all accounts, that festival bit was really successful. Speaking to people, that bit was great. It's the fact that they wanted more bodies in the actual arena, call it, and to have a section for junior clubs to be represented is what they wanted to do. It did look great on telly, and I was, like I said, very surprised when that figure came out. It was 8,159 on New Year's Day was the official figure. I was at that game. You were in Izebo. I was in the conservatory, which is where the big screen was. Speaking to Robbie and Yestin, it didn't look that much different, if I'm honest, and certainly sounded a lot better. You could hear the singing of the hymns and arias, the Amaroheeds. So, yes, the actual gate number is disappointing. Don't get me wrong. I'm not going to say 4-2-2-5 is not what we want to be, but in terms of atmosphere and how it all panned out, brilliant. What really made me happy, speaking to Yestin and Robbie, it was the younger crowd. You could see when they did one of the 800 crowd shots in the game, what his name, Stephen Jones, was so happy about. Yes. It was younger. It was students. It was 18 to 35, if you want to call it. That bloke had actually tried to chop a pint. Groups of young... We had people tweeting us, the people who listened to the arias. Younger guys who are passionate about the clubs and things like that. So that was really pleasing for me. At theSwansea.com, it feels like an older crowd, but at the brewery field, it looked like a younger crowd. Can we go back and talk about the game now? Absolutely. We can. Go on then. Go on then. You tip the questions, I'll answer them. I have a few little stats. Go on then. Go on. The big one, I'm really impressed with, because Ospreys have struggled. For me, Ospreys have struggled a bit in this area. If you look at the points per 22 entry, Ospreys were averaging three and a third points, which is decent. You get over a penalty of time for sales 1.5, which meant you're holding them out. They had far more 22 entries. They go back double, actually. So that's, you know, signs of the defence. Scrum and line-up. Weirdly, this is a real... I called it the rugby pass, anyway, the Scrum were awful. Yeah, 63%. But sales was only 20, but you had 93% line-up. Sales down to a very nice 69%. Because, now as a stat, because Jamie likes quoting it and Hugh hates it, tackle percentages, so Ospreys are 86% to James is 94%, which just says most of the traditional stats on this are bollocks. One interesting thing I found was pretty much all the rugby was played between the half everyone's possession was in between their halfway and your position 22. Almost all of all. Yeah. That was to be expected, though, with the conditions, I think. I think conditions and the sort of teams you both are. You're not going to play line-break rugby in an Osprey as a sale defence, especially Osprey's defence. You do have line-breaks as well. But it's not heavy line-breaks, is it? It's not, you know, it's not Quinn's Glasgow line-breaks or Bordeaux Saracen's line-breaks, is it? It's Johnny McNichol. Yeah. Fuck it. Make loads of line-breaks, just do fuck all of them. So, yeah. The defence stat doesn't surprise me in terms of how we actually set defensively. I thought that's when the back row really came into their stride. Because it was set up for Harry Dees and Justin Tipper to attack a breakdown. And they did. There was that. Absolutely wonderful Harry Dees turnover. That, I know, that's the one you're on about. I'm pretty sure it was the first half. And it was the big 12 who went on a crush ball. I think Morgan Morris yanks him over and Dees is over and pickpockets him. And it is just absolutely beautiful. It's proper old-school Fletcher stuff. Yeah, so it was set up for that. In terms of how we used the ball, we kicked, what, 33 times or something like that. So we kicked heavy. I think Owen, 32. Owen Williams struggled, I think, obviously he struggled off the tee. And that's been a big bugbear of mine this season. He's had, like, 50% goal kick in this season. It's unacceptable. Yeah, it's quite poor, isn't it? Manny Le Boc's looking at that going, that's rubbish, mate. Yeah, he makes Manny Le Boc, he makes Manny Le Boc look like he's being primed, Lee Halfpenny. He's out of hand, I think, after the first three kicks really well. And, yeah, Owen Watkin is looking more and more steady. He's just consistently very good at what he does. He really impresses me. I've been switching him and Keith around a lot. Yeah, what's going on with that? The jerseys don't really mean anything to those two. Because, like, Keith's whole thing is just the, you know, the game, line 12 and stuff. And Owen has played 13 a lot more than he has. So what is the, is it, is it like a pure case of numbers don't matter? Yeah, very much so. I don't, so the way Owen used to play in the very, in the, in like the end of the Tandy era when he made his debut was, the way I was supposed to play, the centres used to set up on either side of the ruck and it would leave the line from either side of the ruck, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the centre, the 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