DenkerPod

Karek, a senior at UC Berkeley, discusses the mental strategies of running in track and cross-country. He mentions that in cross-country, the focus is on racing others, while in track, it's more about splits and pace. He also talks about different approaches to shorter and longer races, and how he stays focused during races. Karek discusses the pressure of championships and how it affects his performance. He emphasizes the importance of adaptability in races and the benefits of running with teammates. Hello, welcome to the second episode of the Prime Drunner. Today we have a very special guest, Karek. Do you want to introduce yourself for us? Yeah, hi, my name is Karek. I'm a senior at UC Berkeley. I run cross-country in track and field. What events do you specialize in? Yeah, so cross-country is 8K and 10K, and then track, I do like 1500 5K. Very nice. Yeah. So how do you, like, approach mentally running when you're on the track versus when you're on cross-country? Are there any notable differences? Yeah, there's definitely a lot of differences. I think, like, for me, sometimes cross-country is easier because you're less focused on exact pace, like, per lap, and you're kind of more just out there racing people, which I think comes more easy to me just as kind of a competitor. Track is sometimes, I think, a little more difficult because you're right there just running laps, so sometimes it's like you get stuck in that mindset of, like, you know, four laps to go, like however many laps to go. But, yeah, it's definitely a different kind of mental strategy. So you focus on yourself more during track, you would say, or is it still on the people you're running with, you just try to keep up? Yeah, I think in track maybe it's more, sometimes it's more you're focused on, like, splits and pace, depending on the race. Sometimes you're just in the race to try to win or race the people you're running against. So, yeah, I guess it kind of depends race to race, but I think that's kind of the more mentality, or the mentality I have in track is kind of like you're seeing each lap split go by, so sometimes it's like kind of different to cross-country where it's a different course. You're not necessarily seeing all your splits, so it's a little bit different that way. So, like, your mind is really filled in with, like, the numbers, you think of each second, each lap that goes by, and, like, you catch up? Yeah, I think so. At least for me, that's how I see it sometimes. Very interesting. Is there a difference between, like, the shorter races versus longer races? Do you tell yourself anything? Yeah, definitely. I think sometimes with, like, 1500s, something, like, shorter, it's more, it goes by so quick, so it's kind of like, it depends too, you know, like, there's more, sometimes you get in races that are more focused on, like, everybody's trying to race fast, and sometimes you're, like, based on position, like, when you get into more, like, competition season or, like, championship season at, like, league or conference and stuff like that, sometimes it's kind of, like, the first couple laps are just trying to get positioning, and then you're trying to just beat people the last lap. But I think in general, something more like the 5K, like a longer distance, it's kind of like, be patient the first mile, first mile and a half, sometimes first two miles, just kind of get your rhythm in, and then you're really racing that last mile, whereas in the 1500, you kind of have to be focused in it the entire time, like, you don't want to be caught sleeping, because there's just not a lot of time to, like, make up for, you know, missed moves and stuff like that. Do you tell yourself anything to, like, avoid falling asleep? Because that happens a lot during cross-country for me. Yeah, I think for me, I think for me sometimes keeping myself focused, like, in it, in the race, like, sometimes just staring at the person, like the back of the person in front of me, or looking up a couple people and saying, like, I can't let this person go, like, no matter what. Sometimes I think it's tough because you, especially in, like, a 5K or, like, a longer distance race, I think you kind of, like, tend to feel you start getting tired and you're, like, man, I still have, like, a mile and a half to go. You know, I'm only halfway done and I'm, like, you know, this exhausted. So sometimes it's, like, about sticking in the moment, like staying in the moment, saying, like, this race, I'm going to get through this race one way or another. Let me make sure that I'm not falling off in this moment, like, one step at a time. Or sometimes to me it's, like, maybe one thing's feeling off, like, you're aerobically, like, you're breathing really hard, and that kind of starts to get you a little bit, like, panicked, like you're a little worried. Sometimes then I'm, like, okay, well, my legs feel pretty good, so let me focus on my legs. Or if it's vice versa, you know, like, or I just try to focus on, like, one positive aspect and, like, one way that I'm going to, like, stay in that race. Interesting. So you mentioned how you race a little bit differently when it's heading towards championships at the end of the season as opposed to the beginning. Right. Do you have to deal with different sets of, like, pressures from yourself or from others? And, like, if so, how do you modify that? Yeah. I mean, there's definitely, like, a different mentality around, like, a race that you're, you know, just trying to get a good time in or, like, it's more of, like, a low-key race versus especially, like, Pac-12s. It's, like, for us it's difficult to even go to Pac-12s because our team is pretty competitive. So when you're starting to, like, reach that mid- to end-season, there's kind of, like, that pressure of, like, I need to get a good time or I need to, like, prove that I can beat, like, these people that are in the Pac-12s so that, like, our coach knows that we're somebody that she needs to take to Pac-12s. Or when you're in Pac-12s, it's, like, you've got to be someone that's in a position to score because it's no longer, like, just about yourself or your times. At that point, like, it's about making the team better or being someone that's contributing to the team success or team placement at Pac-12s. Do you think that pressure that comes from, like, you and kind of your coach, do you think that makes you run faster, slower, or just, like, a little bit of both? For me personally, I think I like the added pressure. I think I tend to do better in, like, invitational style meets or, like, bigger meets where it's more important. I definitely think there are runners that, like, get in their head too much, you know, which is definitely reasonable. I mean, sometimes there is a lot of pressure on you. But I think, to me, I've always kind of liked that pressure because I think sometimes, like, that nervousness and that additional adrenaline, like, you know, that shows that you care and that shows that you're out there to compete. So I kind of like that aspect. So if you have a race that's, like, going to qualify you for the next stage, would you be focusing on the, like, how important this qualification is while you're running, or would you just focus on the race and then have it in the back of your mind that it's, like, a qualification? I think I would put an emphasis on it. I think it would kind of play into, like, the race plan. Like, for instance, our next meet is our dual meet against Hanford. And so me and a couple of other teammates are looking for, like, kind of more qualifying times either for regionals or just competitive times in the Pac-12. So, like, that's two weeks from yesterday. So we're kind of already talking about how we're going to, like, set up that race. Normally, that race is kind of, like, maybe meant to, like, be kind of more we're trying to just get points, trying to, like, beat Stanford. But for us, it's, like, we want to, like, beat some of the Stanford guys and score points, but we also want to focus on, like, having an honest race. So whereas, like, the last few years, it was kind of a sit and kick, or it was just really, like, the last, like, 400 was kind of all out. Trying to get a good time. Yeah, we're looking at, like, trying to push the pace and, like, get an honest time out of it, too. So, yeah, it definitely, like, plays into the race plan and, like, the mentality going into it. And what would you do if the strategy doesn't go as well as you expect? Like, what do you how do you adjust? Yeah, you definitely have to be super adaptable, because that tends to, like, that happens a lot. It's definitely, it's good to have a race plan, but, like, a lot, probably most of the time it's not going to work out exactly how you want it. That's true. So, yeah, just being willing to race the race that you're given. You're not always going to have the perfect opportunity. But I think making sure that that's not something that's going to get to you and ruin your race. Kind of saying, like, I think going into races sometimes when we have a plan like that, I like to say, okay, this is the ideal situation, but, like, let me run through some other scenarios. Like, let me kind of visualize, like, what might happen if, say, like, I'm supposed to take it out myself, but someone else goes in front of me. Or, like, maybe I'm supposed to take the first four to 600, and then my teammate's supposed to, like, take it after that. Like, what if he's not in a good position to do that? I like to kind of, like, play with different scenarios in my head just to try to, like, prepare myself for different things that might happen. How does running with teammates in a race or even during training, do you think that helps you run faster, or does it create, like, do you get competitive with them sometimes? I think it helps. We have a really good team environment here. Like, we're all, like, really proud of each other and supportive of each other. I think, especially in cross-country, I think it's huge to have your teammates next to you. Not just races and not just workouts, but, like, day-to-day stuff. I think, like, going through stuff together a lot of the times is what builds that team chemistry to where it's like you're in the race and you see that person next to you and you know what they're fighting for and you know that you guys have put in this work to be there together. And so, yeah, I think having strong team chemistry and being there, like, for each other and with each other, I think is huge to a team's success, but also individually. Like, I think it gives you that extra, like, yeah, you want to do well for yourself, but, like, what's going to give you that extra push when you're, like, dying? It's like, maybe I don't care enough to get this PR, but I'm going to be there for my teammates, so I've got to get that extra effort in. Interesting. So you have this goal of a championship and, like, qualifications, but once that passes, what do you think? You will set yourself new goals to keep on running, or do you just, like, have different? How do you keep running in the long run? Yeah, so I think season goals are huge, but also, like, for next cross-country season, we already put together goals, like, starting right after last cross-country season. So, like, after in whenever it was November, December, kind of in that area, like, we got together as a team meeting after cross-country season ended, and we talked about, like, our individual goals for track, but we also talked about going forward, like, what do we want to do next cross-country season? So it's always about, like, goals every season, but looking forward to that, because looking forward, like, past that. Because every season you get better, every season you build more of whatever mileage-based strength, you get older, like, you always have to have, like, kind of a growth mindset. Like, you always have to, like, be looking to strive forward and push forward. Yeah, so, I mean, I have track goals going through the rest of the season, but in the back of my mind, I also know that, like, what I'm doing right now isn't just for these, like, next couple weeks or this next, like, month or so. Like, it's also building forward towards, like, summer and then, like, in the fall of cross-country season. So during this team meeting, could you elaborate on the kinds of goals you set? Was it for yourself or the whole team? And was it, like, time-based and, like, competitive-based? Or was it more just, like, I want to achieve this training load or have this relationship with running? Yeah, so a little bit of everything. We do individual goals and team goals. And then we kind of have, like, a team doc where everyone, like, writes down their goals. And it's, like, pretty specific stuff. So a lot of the guys, like, individual goal-wise is, like, yeah, it could be time and placement. Like, people definitely have that. But it might also be, like, hey, like, I feel like I wasn't getting enough sleep this semester and that caused me to get sick. And, like, or maybe I'm not eating healthy enough. Like, or I want to work on physical therapy stuff because I'm getting injured. So it could be, like, a lot of process goals like that. And then team-wise for this track season, even though track is individual, we put together, like, a couple team goals. And I think a couple of those were we set a certain amount of people that we wanted to go to Pac-12s. Like I said, like, it's pretty competitive. There's 28 men and 28 women from our team that go to Pac-12s. And, I mean, our throws program is, like, top in the country. We have a really good sprint program right now. So it's, like, competitive to get people to Pac-12s. So that was, like, a team goal that we had, like, hey, like, let's work together to get ourselves in a position where, like, we're scoring points, like, we're strong on this team. And then there's a couple other things, like looking at rankings, team rankings based on, like, 1,500 or 5K times. Like, they kind of do, like, you can look into that a little bit, but there's, like, across the nation, like, there's, like, team rankings based on events. And then, yeah, going forward for cross-country season, like, we haven't started individual goals yet for that. But we talked about, like, our big goal is we want to make it to nationals next year. So that's, like, something that we set in November. Because that's, like, an ongoing process. It's not something that, like, starts in August or September. Like, that starts immediately. Like, you know, working towards that. It's a big goal. You mentioned some people have goals of, like, preventing injury or setting new habits in place to prevent injury. Have you experienced any injury? Yeah. So all throughout high school, I didn't really have any injuries. My first injury started sophomore year track season, like middle of track season. I was having just, like, knee pain, and I couldn't really figure out, like, what it was. That lasted for about a little over a year. Turns out, like, it was the fat pads in my knees, which I didn't even, like, know was a thing. They were kind of treating it as tendinitis in my knee. But, yeah, it turned out it was just, like, irritation, I think, from too many miles on, like, hard surface. So, yeah, that was, like, definitely a pretty big struggle. Just because it started becoming a thing where it was, like, I couldn't really run more than, like, whereas my training was, like, 75 miles a week, I couldn't run more than, like, 30, 35 without pain. So that was, like, a really big adjustment for me. But I think it kind of led to I started, like, figuring out ways to get around it. So, like, that fall cross-country season, I started getting into cross-training, and so I was doing a lot of, like, ellipticaling and biking and figuring out how to, like, interpret that into cross-country training and kind of replace mileage with that, which went, like, all right. I didn't really have a ton of guidance on it. I was kind of just experimenting and then doing a lot of, like, PT exercises. And then I started to kind of, like, figure out better ways to go about it in track season last year, and that was when I really, like, started to hit my stride when I was, like, I couldn't hit mileage quite yet, but I figured out a way to get in three main runs, like, two workouts and a long run, and then do, like, however many, like, five, six hours of, like, hard cross-training. And that was when I started to build up my fitness, and then eventually I got healthy, and then it led to a great cross-country season. Was there any, like, attitude you think towards running that would have helped you not get injured, or do you think it was just, like, you weren't aware that this could happen? Yeah, I think I was a little bit naive or maybe just inexperienced with injury because everything up to that point I was able to run through, and so it was, like, any, like, kind of minor pains I could kind of just run through. So I definitely wish that, like, when I started feeling that pain, I took it more seriously because I think I probably could have prevented it or made it, like, you know, less, maybe not, like, last an entire year. Yeah, I guess that was probably the main thing. And then when you're training, are there any, like, signs you look for to make sure you're not getting, like, you're not overtraining or not just you're not going to recover from this? Are there any? Yeah, I definitely think it takes a lot of experience. Like, I think I know. I think, like I said, I thought I could kind of run through anything, and I think now I know my body a lot better just, you know, after going through a couple injuries. And, I mean, I still, every now, like, every couple weeks, you know, I'll have, like, a minor pain or something. And I think I've gotten good at listening to my body and, like, saying I've gotten a lot better at, like, balancing, like, mileage. Like, I've learned that there's definitely a limit of too much mileage for some people, but you can always do more. It just might not be more mileage. So, like, I think my mindset has kind of been, like, if something is hurting, like, and I can't do the mileage that I want to do, what's another avenue that I can do more? So that's, like, going to the trainers, doing PT stuff. Cross training is huge for me. I still, even when I'm not injured, I still do, like, three hours or so of ellipticaling or biking per week. Or it's, you know, getting more sleep or, like, eating healthier or whatever it is. I think that's been a huge mindset or a huge thing for me is, like, that mindset of, like, you can always do more. It's just maybe it's not mileage. Maybe it's a different area. So you've been running for, like, at least high school. And during all these years, are there any moments when running stops feeling, like, enjoyable or when you felt like maybe you wanted to dial back a little bit? Yeah, I think definitely the biggest point of that, I think, was a little over a year ago when I had been going through my knee pain for, like, half of track season and then all of cross country season. And then when I started to try to build up for track again last winter break, it was still hurting. And so I think that, like, was a moment for me of, like, man, like, why am I running if it just hurts all the time, you know? So that was definitely a low point for me. And how did you combat that to get back into running this track season? I got to kind of a lot of, did a lot of introspection. And I thought, like, at the end of the day, like, why am I running? Like, why do I run? Like, what's my purpose for running? And to me, I love, I'm a competitor. Like, I love competing. I love, like, pushing my body to the limits. I love, like, seeing what I can get out of myself. And I love, like, competing side by side with my teammates. And so even if I wasn't able to run the training plan that I wanted to run, I kind of had to take a step back and say, like, does that matter to me or am I going to do whatever it takes to, like, get to this point of competing that, like, I enjoy and I know I want to do? And so it was a lot of that and then taking that forward and saying, like, how am I going to get to this point? For me, it was, like, let me figure out the best, like, training plan, which was, like, running a couple days a week, doing a lot of cross training, and then putting a huge emphasis on, like, recovery in PT exercises and stuff like that. And then I think it was kind of just, like, from there it was, like, take it one day at a time, like, do what I need to do today, and then the next day do what I need to do. And then, you know, before you know it, it's, like, a couple weeks later and you start to see that improvement and, like, I'm running, I'm feeling pretty fit, like, I don't have pain. And then, like, slowly, like, we got through a week, you're, like, you realize, like, okay, I've built something. So I think that was kind of how I went about it. So I assume your, like, teammates were supporting you. And, like, what exactly did it do? Or have you ever had to support teammates who were also going through injury or hard times? Yeah. I think the way our team culture used to be, we honestly, like, we didn't have a great team culture. So when I was going through that, I, like, didn't have a ton of – that was my sophomore year or, I guess, sophomore into junior year. I didn't, like, really have, like, the greatest support from my teammates. But me going through that and, like, going through all the, you know, emotions of, like, you know, do I want to run all the way through, like, breaking through that and being, like, okay, like, I found a path, like, back to enjoying running. That kind of, like, spurred me to kind of work with the team and kind of spearhead, like, a new team culture. So I think I a little bit kind of, like, started, you know, talking to, like, a lot of my teammates who were also facing injury – issues with injury and kind of, like, sharing with them, like, how I went about it. And so now it's, like, yeah, we do have a really great team culture and we do have a bunch of guys who, like, maybe have gone through one thing or another and then someone else on the team, like, you know, inevitably anything you've gone through, someone else has also gone through. So I think we do have a really good support system within each other now. So you remind us that when you're, like, training and you're actually running on the track or on the trails, I assume you do a lot of soft surface. How is that different from when you do stretching and cross training or, like, even, I guess you do strength training in the weight room? Yeah. I think it's all – I try to – I try to always find a reason, like, why a purpose for each thing that I'm doing. So I think, like, yeah, like, you're doing different things, but at the same time, like, I think I approach it pretty similarly just in that, like, I like to have a vision or, like, an end goal or, like, you know, this is where I want to be or, like, this is, like, my ideal training or, like, whatever it is, like, that kind of ideal, like, end point. And then I like to kind of, like, fit each piece of the puzzle, like, you know, like where it is, like, whether it's just day-to-day run or, like, a workout or, yeah, like you said, like, lifting or strength training or, like, PT. Like, I think I try to kind of go at it like I have to – okay, I got to do this thing because it's going to, like, put me on this path or, like, it's going to get me to, like, this point. So I kind of, like, even though they're different things, like, you're doing completely different things, like, on a – in a track workout versus, like, stretching or, like, rolling out, I think I kind of, like, try to, like, you know, have that same mentality of, like, I'm doing this for this purpose to get me here. Interesting. In general, when you deal with, like, a setback or a difficulty during a race or even, like, just a general pain that's associated with running a good race, how do you push through that? Like you're saying, like, when I'm, like, pushing through in a race. Yeah, even if it's, like, going – it's going well but it just, like, starts to hurt because you're on that last lap or something. Yeah, right. Yeah, I think for me, like I kind of was talking about earlier, I think one of the biggest drivers is, like, being there for my team. I think, like, some of my best races in cross-country season, like that, like, last mile or two, like, it's very easy to kind of fall into that pain and, like, be complacent or, like, sometimes it's, like, you're having a great race and there's a mile to go and you're exhausted but you're, like, hey, like, I'm in a pretty good position. Like, if I, you know, kind of ride this out, like, that's a good race for me. And I had a couple races like that where I'm kind of faced with the option of, like, push through this pain and, like, get those extra couple people or, you know, be complacent. I think in those instances, for me, it's being there for the team, like, knowing, like, hey, like, I'm at whatever it was, like, I think three meets this year, I'm, like, the number one scorer. So, like, if I just, if I don't beat those people in front of me, like, you know, what if we, like, fall back? Like, what if we get sixth place at Pac-12s or, like, into the fifth place or, like, what if we, like, lose this race, whatever it might be? I think, to me, it's about, like, pushing through it for my team and also, like, to kind of inspire them to say, like, hey, like, I felt awful at this point in the race, but, like, I kept my eyes up. Yeah, I put my eyes up, like, look at the person in front of me and say, I'm going to reel him in and pass him, like, get on to the next person. Stuff like that. So, like, your desire to really do everything for the team is what keeps you, like, you always give your full effort on the race? Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think I have a, I feel a pretty big responsibility as, like, a senior and, like, a leader on this team to leave it all out there because, to me, if I'm not doing that, how can I expect my teammates to do that? Like, if they're looking up to me or, like, seeing me do this stuff, you know, they're going to maybe emulate stuff like that. So, I think I can't ask them something that I'm not going to do myself. Very nice. Are there any final takeaways you want to give us in the audience about? I don't know. I think there's always going to be difficulties with running. It's one of those sports where it's, like, you know, who knows why we do it because it hurts. But I think, like, focusing on the positives, like, and focusing on, like, growing and being better, like, there's always room for improvement and there's always, like, a space to find joy and, like, love for the sport. So, I think, yeah, I've just been this last year or so, like, really focusing on that, you know, keep that positive mindset and keep moving forward. Well, thank you very much. Yeah, appreciate it.